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Cunning Angus
Posted - 2011.09.03 11:15:00 - [1]
 

Greeting MD

I've read some of the recent posts with interest regarding the discount of PLEX and clearly I am not after a definative answer to the question i pose here, but maybe just to hear some different opinions.

What happens if Eve folds ie for whatever reason CCP (or a liquidator) closes down Eve.

Specifically, what happens to game time purchased?

My thoughts are that game time is a liability on the CCP balance sheet (ie payment for services not yet provided), so if Eve folded there would be an obligation to return the payment.

I would think that this also applies to PLEX - after all, someone paid cash for it. So if i own PLEX when the lights go out, and i can show evidence of this ownership, would i have a claim to the cash value of those PLEX?


Shar Tegral
Posted - 2011.09.03 11:25:00 - [2]
 

Originally by: Cunning Angus
Specifically, what happens to game time purchased?

This is all that I was able to find. I could not find any TOS regarding plex.

What this means is up to the legal system you could leverage at the time of your example.
(That is all I will say on it.)

Golkan
Posted - 2011.09.03 14:31:00 - [3]
 

According to the TOS:
Quote:

26. We reserve the right to ban any user from the game without refund or compensation.



So my guess if they want to shut down eve is simply ban everybody without refund and close the game and you can't really do anything legally since you've accepted the terms of service.

- Golkan

KaarBaak
Minmatar
Seatec Astronomy
Posted - 2011.09.03 14:55:00 - [4]
 

Edited by: KaarBaak on 03/09/2011 14:56:20
Originally by: Golkan
According to the TOS:
Quote:

26. We reserve the right to ban any user from the game without refund or compensation.



So my guess if they want to shut down eve is simply ban everybody without refund and close the game and you can't really do anything legally since you've accepted the terms of service.

- Golkan


And (Caps are CCPs):
Quote:

YOU ACKNOWLEDGE THAT TERMINATION OF YOUR ACCOUNT BY CCP OR ONE OF ITS AUTHORIZED REPRESENTATIVES MAY RESULT FROM FAILURE TO ABIDE BY THESE RULES. SUCH TERMINATION WILL NOT ENTITLE YOU TO A REFUND OF ANY FEES PAID BY YOU FOR THE USE OF THE EVE ONLINE CLIENT, SERVERS OR WEB SITE. YOU WILL FORFEIT ANY UNUSED GAME TIME REMAINING AT THE TIME OF TERMINATION.

Quote:
CCP reserves the right to close, temporarily or permanently, any userís account without advance notice as we deem necessary. Furthermore, we reserve the right to delete all user accounts or inventory of characters as warranted.


And finally...from the EULA:

Quote:
TERMINATION; SUSPENSION OF ACCOUNT

A. By CCP for Termination of the Game
CCP does not guarantee that it will continue to offer access to the System or support the Game. CCP may, in its sole discretion, cease to provide any or all of the services offered in connection with EVE (including access to the System and any or all features or components of the Game), terminate the EULA, close all Accounts and cancel all of the rights granted to you under the EULA. CCP may communicate such termination to you upon 30 days notice in any of the following manners: (i) when you log into your Account; (ii) in a notice on CCP's website; (iii) via electronic mail; or (iv) in another manner that CCP deems suitable to inform you of the termination. If CCP terminates the EULA pursuant to this section, you will not receive a refund of prepaid subscription fees.



Phelan Votronski
Posted - 2011.09.03 16:41:00 - [5]
 

Edited by: Phelan Votronski on 03/09/2011 16:43:15
Wasn't there a presentation at eve vegas about this? IIRC you might be able to get a refund but only if you actually paid for the gametime with real money (be it plex or normal gametime). That would make the overall obligations on their part relatively small because most plex get sold for isk.

Edit: also EULA/ToS do do not stand above local laws and what you get or cannot get entirely depends on what legal leverage you can apply. Realistically though it probably wouldn't be worth to pursue it in the first place.

Cunning Angus
Posted - 2011.09.03 21:05:00 - [6]
 

Edited by: Cunning Angus on 03/09/2011 21:46:35
Great responses!

According to the EULA, it seems to depend on how you view PLEX. If it is a prepaid subscription then you are entitled to a refund. If its an item, then it can be deleted without compensation.

The other issue of course is ownership, and if in fact ownership can be transferred from one person to another using in-game currrency.

Peace

edit: removed reference to something we shouldnt talk aboot

Anya Ohaya
Posted - 2011.09.04 06:23:00 - [7]
 

One factor to consider is the argument of "bad faith", which can include "entering into an agreement without the intention or means to fulfill it".

Basically if you can prove that one party to a contract never intended to uphold a contract, you might have a case regardless of the actual letter of the contract. But such a lawsuit would be costly and risky.

Florestan Bronstein
24th Imperial Crusade
Posted - 2011.09.04 07:00:00 - [8]
 

Edited by: Florestan Bronstein on 04/09/2011 07:01:04
Originally by: Cunning Angus
The other issue of course is ownership, and if in fact ownership can be transferred from one person to another using in-game currrency.

CCP does probably disagree with that PoV

As far as they are concerned they own all information on the server and you can maybe transfer access to a piece of data/information (such as a virtual item, ISK, ...) but certainly not ownership of it.

Doctor Ungabungas
Caldari
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.09.04 10:32:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Cunning Angus

Specifically, what happens to game time purchased?

My thoughts are that game time is a liability on the CCP balance sheet (ie payment for services not yet provided), so if Eve folded there would be an obligation to return the payment.



PLEX are an in game item and have no real world value as per the EULA. GTC are a 'real world' item, and you could have them refunded or do a chargeback.

Eddard Varbosa
Posted - 2011.09.04 11:13:00 - [10]
 

Perhaps EVE is the biggest scam of all time? lol


 

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