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Mano de Venganza
Posted - 2011.09.03 01:59:00 - [1]
 

tbh, i think so. Alot of players (from what i've seen) have stated the winter expansion will be the turning point. be it good/great, things go back to normal (ish) and all is well in the world again (lol). Be it bad, much rage insues, and another round of sub losses to go with the losses from incarna.

In a game where your players ARE your content, and you simply provide the toys for the sandbox, can CCP Deal with another round of unsubs? (note, i never said CCP would go under...i'm simply wondering if it would cause some hard decisions to be made at CCP HQ)



Discuss.

Forever Frantic
Posted - 2011.09.03 02:01:00 - [2]
 

IMO I'm fine with how the game is. It's just all these people who can't adapt and want things handed to them their way.

If the winter expansion is good, awesome, if not, so what? If you don't like the game go do something else in your life

Darcaryn Davdak
Posted - 2011.09.03 02:04:00 - [3]
 

If there is no added content in the next 6 months or so, I will be un-subbing all 4 accounts and going to a PLEX to play only system, until my ISK runs out, or something happends that makes me want to play/pay again.

The AUR whoring and the worthlessness of CQ, combined with the lack of any updates to broken mechanics has really made me question continuing paying real $$ to play.

Herping yourDerp
Posted - 2011.09.03 02:14:00 - [4]
 

Inappropriate comment removed. Spitfire

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2011.09.03 02:18:00 - [5]
 

Even if they come up with an awesome winter expansion it could already be a bit late (for this fiscal year's numbers anyway), but by the end of next year and after a (hopefully) second decent expansion, maybe, just maybe...

Bane Necran
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.09.03 02:21:00 - [6]
 

It will be make or break for Incarna, but not EVE.

BLACK-STAR
Posted - 2011.09.03 02:25:00 - [7]
 

you could take a break and always come back next year when CCP has something finished. I think a lot of people are doing that now. I'm looking forward to battlefield 3 and gears 3 in particular. Very Happy

Pr1ncess Alia
Posted - 2011.09.03 02:27:00 - [8]
 

people are buying monocles and those that aren't don't have the balls to leave

ccp could start taking content away just for the fun of it, you don't have another game to go to, they'd get away with it.

"oooh! let's hold our breath that ccp will see the error in their ways by winter and give us what we want!"

Laughing

they already got your money. they don't care about you, they want other peoples money now. you? just keep paying them because you are their *****.

they've already proven not enough people will leave no matter how much they ignore the game.

why would CCP spend resources on eve when you pay them regardless?

Simetraz
Posted - 2011.09.03 02:43:00 - [9]
 

I don't know there is a large number of people that are very clearly in it for the new toys they can get and if they don't get them, then they feel cheated and leave. (Expansionists)

Then there is another group that is opposed to any change at all and even want to things to go back to the good old days. (Geriatric club)

And the third group is everyone else.
They lean a little to the left or a little to right but for the most part they are more interested in just playing the game.

I think if group 1 or 2 aren't satisfied we will see more of them leave, not sure that is a bad thing either.
For the rest, who knows, can't make a prediction on a expansion that we know nothing about.
Then again I don't want to count how many expansions have come and gone that I looked at and said that is cool, but I won't ever use it, or try it out, or has no effect on the way I am currently playing.
Kind of hard to worry or get upset over that.

Living Dead Girl
Posted - 2011.09.03 02:59:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Simetraz
I don't know there is a large number of people that are very clearly in it for the new toys they can get and if they don't get them, then they feel cheated and leave. (Expansionists)

Then there is another group that is opposed to any change at all and even want to things to go back to the good old days. (Geriatric club)

And the third group is everyone else.
They lean a little to the left or a little to right but for the most part they are more interested in just playing the game.

I think if group 1 or 2 aren't satisfied we will see more of them leave, not sure that is a bad thing either.
For the rest, who knows, can't make a prediction on a expansion that we know nothing about.
Then again I don't want to count how many expansions have come and gone that I looked at and said that is cool, but I won't ever use it, or try it out, or has no effect on the way I am currently playing.
Kind of hard to worry or get upset over that.



+1

Anashka caldari
Caldari
Terra Incognita
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2011.09.03 04:05:00 - [11]
 

The game is fine the way it is, i want to see more of the station and the new nebulae tho.

Ines Tegator
Posted - 2011.09.03 06:11:00 - [12]
 

EVE already has a colossal amount of content. By polishing it and making it easier to access (from a interface/learning how to do things standpoint), you will get more attention then any new feature on its own will.

El'Niaga
Minmatar
Republic Military School
Posted - 2011.09.03 06:19:00 - [13]
 

I believe EVE's pretty much past the point of no return. It will not die overnight but given the expansions/patches of the last 2 years, her golden years are long since past. CCP is primarily using it as a money cow these days trying to gleam every drop of milk before slaughtering the beast. The size and quality of the patches/expansions the last 2 years shows that they have the game on coast. Their testing of new technologies unrelated tot he core of the game shows it is just an alpha test bed for other projects. Right now EVE's on a slow decline.

The winter expansion though I think will be the NGE moment of EVE. CCP Soundwave and his team seem tone deaf to what is actually wanted and needed. He's on numerous occasions sported that it is unfair that one person can jump farther than another due to skills. So obviously he's for dumbing down the game. I think based on what was previously posted as their thoughts on the Winter Expansion it will be a horrible failure. They simply don't understand what motivates their player base. They want you to play the game their way, in other words destroy the sandbox, and much like SWG if they continue down this path they'll enter a period of steep decline, then a slow death probably closing up shop on EVE in 3-5 years.

Abrazzar
Posted - 2011.09.03 06:26:00 - [14]
 

My PLEXes run out January. So if there's no good expansion that gives me reason to extend my subscription, I'll be off then.

IMHO, it will be important to many people what CCP will put into the winter expansion. Either to decide if they should come back or if they should finally leave. It is one good opportunity for CCP to show they haven't put EVE on the backburner for other projects. It's not doing it any good leaving unfinished and broken content fester and simmer for so long.

From the tendencies in various graphs and statistics, the player activity on the server is stagnating and the last expansion completely fizzled. If nothing else, this should be a warning sign for the management people at CCP that something is going wrong and this something needs to be addressed.

I wonder how the amount of money given to CCP by investors, compares to the money given to CCP by the customers via subscription fees. I think, the players are at least as big investors into CCP as the outside investors and should be given appropriate consideration fitting to their monetary value.

Karia Sur
Posted - 2011.09.03 06:44:00 - [15]
 

I could live with an expansion that had no new content if it actually contained a ton of bug fixes. That to me would prove that CCP are bothered about the game as much as new subs.

Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
Posted - 2011.09.03 07:03:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Karia Sur
I could live with an expansion that had no new content if it actually contained a ton of bug fixes. That to me would prove that CCP are bothered about the game as much as new subs.


That won't be enough for an expansion. Some bug fixing should always happen, but in an expansion you need to deliver new interesting content. If you deliver an expansion, especially now after the badly received content thin Incarna, it will be treated as a huge failure and as proof that CCP has stopped serious development of EVE. That will mean more unsubs from current players and little to no new players coming in to take their place. I also can't see how CCP could afford to waste an expansion for bugfixing when they have to make EVE gameplay mechanics DUST compatible by the next summer.

Vice Admiral Spreadsheet
Caldari
Posted - 2011.09.03 07:09:00 - [17]
 

The current winter lineup looks like it's going to set things straight.
Massive 0.0 changes and fixes, as well as a *useful* iteration in Incarna: establishments.
Of course, there will be bug fixes on the way there.

Karia Sur
Posted - 2011.09.03 07:44:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Destination SkillQueue
Originally by: Karia Sur
I could live with an expansion that had no new content if it actually contained a ton of bug fixes. That to me would prove that CCP are bothered about the game as much as new subs.


That won't be enough for an expansion.


Thats not a problem imo. Forget trying to atract new people to the game by creating new glitz and work on keeping the existing people, here. There are sooooooooooooo many stupid little bugs that have been around for at least 2-3 years which CCP obviously cant be arsed to sort. I feel CCP would get a lot more credit if they announced that they were going to clean up the existing game before adding new stuff.

The simple fact is that in no matter what situation you look at, a car, a house, a business etc etc. you can only botch problems for so long before the whole lot comes crashing down.

Aldan Romar
Amarr
Imperial Academy
Posted - 2011.09.03 08:00:00 - [19]
 

Edited by: Aldan Romar on 03/09/2011 08:02:35

People are angry about Incarna.

The winter expansion will have more Incarna.

As People are crying about every square foot of cloth in the Noble Exchange, there is no chance for those people to feel better.

So why not unsub now?

Just face it - EVE is changing, there is no going back to 'normal', whatever that would be for you, given that the internet spaceship content wasn't changed.

Roime
Gallente
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
Posted - 2011.09.03 08:08:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Simetraz
I don't know there is a large number of people that are very clearly in it for the new toys they can get and if they don't get them, then they feel cheated and leave. (Expansionists)

Then there is another group that is opposed to any change at all and even want to things to go back to the good old days. (Geriatric club)

And the third group is everyone else.
They lean a little to the left or a little to right but for the most part they are more interested in just playing the game.

I think if group 1 or 2 aren't satisfied we will see more of them leave, not sure that is a bad thing either.
For the rest, who knows, can't make a prediction on a expansion that we know nothing about.
Then again I don't want to count how many expansions have come and gone that I looked at and said that is cool, but I won't ever use it, or try it out, or has no effect on the way I am currently playing.
Kind of hard to worry or get upset over that.


+1 good one


El'Niaga
Minmatar
Republic Military School
Posted - 2011.09.03 08:25:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Aldan Romar
Edited by: Aldan Romar on 03/09/2011 08:02:35

People are angry about Incarna.

The winter expansion will have more Incarna.

As People are crying about every square foot of cloth in the Noble Exchange, there is no chance for those people to feel better.

So why not unsub now?

Just face it - EVE is changing, there is no going back to 'normal', whatever that would be for you, given that the internet spaceship content wasn't changed.


Then EVE will die, you can't anger your current playerbase and survive long term.

They aren't attracting enough new players, I know of no one who has tried a trial and lasted a month since Incarna. Their approach is flawed. Even I sitting down with a scrap piece of paper can come up with dozens of ships and roles that are not filled in game. The fact they have not released any significant new ships or mods in years shows they've lost their way.

The key is not nerfing what is but coming up with new ship roles just like you would in a real war. For example in the real world, US Super Carriers have dominated since WWII, China's solution a new carrier busting weapon. To correlate to EVE the solution to the Super carrier problem we have the solution is not nerfing them (though honestly when Seleene worked there they buffed them to much in one go).

Solutions:

Heavy Cruiser: Cruiser designed to carry 2 capital weapons, its lower sig radius will keep fighter bombers from being effective. Tech 2 cruiser, thus lower skill training than the supercarrier. Easily could become a threat to them. Moderate tank so that they are vulnerable to other subcaps.

Drone Interdictor: Launches a probe that engages drones within its bubble including fighters and fighter bombers dealing significant damage so long as they remain within its effect. (level 2 or 3 interdictor)

Heavy Drone Interdictor: Level 2 or 3 Heavy Interdictor with a modified bubble that attacks and damages drones, fighters and fighter bombers in its sphere.

Problem solved, now only if CCP could solve such things.

Brooks Puuntai
Minmatar
Nomadic Asylum
Posted - 2011.09.03 10:51:00 - [22]
 

Edited by: Brooks Puuntai on 03/09/2011 10:52:43
I do think that the Winter Expansion will be a make or break situation for a lot of people. Since Incarna was such a flop to most, some are on the edge on whether or not to go. If the winter expansion is mostly Incarna/Nex stuff with only a few crappy 0.0 changes then expect a exodus. Will it kill Eve? No, but it will probably start a greater decline then whats already been happening. At least if that happens CCP fanbois cant blame it on summer time.

Though someone acouple replies above me got it correct. Sadly theres not many other options gaming wise that is comparable to Eve. So that might be the saving grace if it does. Sadly my sub runs out in Dec so I might not be able to see(aka troll) the fallout.

Izziee
Posted - 2011.09.03 10:53:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Mano de Venganza
tbh, i think so. Alot of players (from what i've seen) have stated the winter expansion will be the turning point. be it good/great, things go back to normal (ish) and all is well in the world again (lol). Be it bad, much rage insues, and another round of sub losses to go with the losses from incarna.

In a game where your players ARE your content, and you simply provide the toys for the sandbox, can CCP Deal with another round of unsubs? (note, i never said CCP would go under...i'm simply wondering if it would cause some hard decisions to be made at CCP HQ)



Discuss.


:O!

You mean....people are going to threaten to quit their 27 accounts again and not actually do so?!

Never seen that before

MatrixSkye Mk2
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.09.03 11:16:00 - [24]
 

Every expansion since the inception of Eve has been make or break for the special kids. Every expansion surprises them with dissapointment and rage. Every expansion they will claim how "this" is their true dissapointment and how they did not expect it to be this terrible. They will threaten to leave and claim they've cancelled all 15 of their accounts and are just waiting for the 1-year subscription to run out.

To be honest, while Eve goes on this cycle will never end.


J Kunjeh
Gallente
Posted - 2011.09.03 11:17:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Darcaryn Davdak
If there is no added content in the next 6 months or so, I will be un-subbing all 4 accounts and going to a PLEX to play only system, until my ISK runs out, or something happends that makes me want to play/pay again.



PLEX to play IS paying to play, just with someone else's cash. So you're not really "un-subbing", but I'm sure you knew that.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.09.03 11:22:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Simetraz
I don't know there is a large number of people that are very clearly in it for the new toys they can get and if they don't get them, then they feel cheated and leave. (Expansionists)

Then there is another group that is opposed to any change at all and even want to things to go back to the good old days. (Geriatric club)

And the third group is everyone else.
You forgot the fourth group: the activists people who like change, but not for the sake of change, who like expansions, but not for the sake of expansion, and who simply want CCP to be active and give EVE as much attention as they do.

Reilly Duvolle
Posted - 2011.09.03 11:42:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Izziee


:O!

You mean....people are going to threaten to quit their 27 accounts again and not actually do so?!

Never seen that before


Sorry bud, but even if some players cancelling subs back in june came back, there is no doubt CCP lost thousands of paying accounts. There is also no doubt that player activity within EVE itself I's on the decline. Even if you refuse to accept it.

Shayla Sh'inlux
Eve Space Exploration Guild
Posted - 2011.09.03 11:47:00 - [28]
 

Quote:

Then EVE will die, you can't anger your current playerbase and survive long term.

They aren't attracting enough new players, I know of no one who has tried a trial and lasted a month since Incarna. Their approach is flawed. Even I sitting down with a scrap piece of paper can come up with dozens of ships and roles that are not filled in game. The fact they have not released any significant new ships or mods in years shows they've lost their way.

The key is not nerfing what is but coming up with new ship roles just like you would in a real war. For example in the real world, US Super Carriers have dominated since WWII, China's solution a new carrier busting weapon. To correlate to EVE the solution to the Super carrier problem we have the solution is not nerfing them (though honestly when Seleene worked there they buffed them to much in one go).

Solutions:

Heavy Cruiser: Cruiser designed to carry 2 capital weapons, its lower sig radius will keep fighter bombers from being effective. Tech 2 cruiser, thus lower skill training than the supercarrier. Easily could become a threat to them. Moderate tank so that they are vulnerable to other subcaps.

Drone Interdictor: Launches a probe that engages drones within its bubble including fighters and fighter bombers dealing significant damage so long as they remain within its effect. (level 2 or 3 interdictor)

Heavy Drone Interdictor: Level 2 or 3 Heavy Interdictor with a modified bubble that attacks and damages drones, fighters and fighter bombers in its sphere.



This is such an uneducated post.

For starters, change will not cause Eve to die. It will cause older players, that are already kinda bored with the game anyway and don't see the changes go in their direction leave. These people are the vocal majoritym but hardly a huge percentage of the playerbase. It's like that in every online game. If forums were any indicator of games dying, then WoW would have been dead 5 times over by now. Last time I heard Blizz is still running 9 million subs. Interestingly enough, their subscription number is at the moment actually decreasing quite fast and NOBODY IS POSTING THAT WOW IS DYING? You know why? Because those that would have been posting that, already quit and stopped caring. As soon as nobody in here will get worked up over expansion content and threaten to leave the game or make silly spreadsheets to proof Eve is dying, THAT is when Eve is actually losing a lot of players. Judging from these forums, it's doing quite fine methinks.

Second, you have to get out of your little cocoon and understand that you and the ~50 people you fly with regularly, fighting over stations, moongoo, plexes and whatnot, getting blobbed to bits in nulsec because Supercarriers are stupid are totally unrelated to Eve dying or not. While I certainly agree that Supercarriers and Titans need a big whack with the nerfstick (or even totally removed, but like that's gonna happen!), fixing SC's will not magically make Eve get 473648923 more subscribers. Fixing SC's will just be a band-aid fix for the same problem that has always existed in 0.0: the guys with the biggest blob win.

I too would like nulsec to be like player controlled empire-space. But until 0.0 is changed on a FUNDAMENTAL level, that's just not going to happen. This, above everything else, is IMO what's always kept Eve a relatively niche-game and I also think it's too late to change now.



Ethan Bejorn
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2011.09.03 11:59:00 - [29]
 

Winter expansion is definately make or break for me. CCP's one last chance.

MatrixSkye Mk2
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.09.03 12:16:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Shayla Sh'inlux
As soon as nobody in here will get worked up over expansion content and threaten to leave the game or make silly spreadsheets to proof Eve is dying, THAT is when Eve is actually losing a lot of players. Judging from these forums, it's doing quite fine methinks.
Here truth be spoken.



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