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Pr1ncess Alia
Posted - 2011.09.03 14:24:00 - [31]
 

Originally by: The Ban Hammer
Without making the post too specific I can assure you that no botting was done. Our multiboxing fleet was maliciously banned because we reinforced a high sec tower in a war dec and the enemy wanted us all gone for when it came out of reinforce (and their plan worked flawlessly).

It doesn't matter that we were speaking in private chats constantly throughout the battle, or that we were posting things to local chat... our enemies knew this, and they still reported us. The bottom line is that this tool is being used as an exploit, and performing the equivalent of 'capital punishment' against legit Eve players in an automated way is terrible business policy.

Why aren't emails sent to banned players explaining why they were banned? Because it was automated and there was no human there to justify the ban, so there is NO REASON.


BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! Laughing

Dude, we've heard it all. It is good to see some of you are getting caught though.

It's a free world man, free to live by the rules, free to break em, free to suffer the consequences. Wink

Prince Kobol
Posted - 2011.09.03 14:58:00 - [32]
 

Originally by: The Ban Hammer
Edited by: The Ban Hammer on 02/09/2011 21:35:32
Hundreds of accounts have now been banned without warning or justification as a result of a new meta-gaming tactic involving the new "Report Bot" command introduced in CCP Pollux's recent devblog.



Proof please :)

Lu'Marat
Posted - 2011.09.03 15:41:00 - [33]
 

Edited by: Lu''Marat on 03/09/2011 15:42:34
First I wanted to reply with a few lewd remarks to the idiots in this thread. Then I figured once again that people who post in the general forum rather than filing a petition probably WANT to get flamed by idiots because, really, that's all posting in general forum gets you.

Then I thought again and figured I'll still go out on a limb and say, if the OP is right then that'll be easy to prove, if he's wrong that'll be easy to prove as well, so I guess I'll just end with "shut up, idiots".

[Edit:] ...and edit in the "Thanks for clarifying how it works, CCP Stillman" that I forgot first round.

Lilith Ishanoya
Lai Dai Shipments
Posted - 2011.09.03 16:05:00 - [34]
 

Edited by: Lilith Ishanoya on 03/09/2011 16:05:32
Originally by: Doctor Dremo
I found this thread because I am dealing with this same issue. I multi-box mine with 2 rorquals and 8 hulks, with 8 mackinaw chars also trained on those hulk accounts. By all accounts, I certainly could appear to be a bot by the untrained eye. However, I'm also an active pvp pilot on other characters, with thousands of mails, and FC'ing experience at the small-gang, fleet, and coalition level.


Your statement that you also do active stuff like PVP, FC etc does not contradict or rule out the possibility of you botting on other characters/accounts/times.


Amsterdam Conversations
Posted - 2011.09.03 16:20:00 - [35]
 

I would surely love to hear the names of some of those people who have been banned for no reason. If you'd speak up that would be really kind.

Cyaxares II
Posted - 2011.09.03 16:54:00 - [36]
 

Edited by: Cyaxares II on 03/09/2011 17:09:09
Originally by: Vincent Athena

CCP did investigate but certainly does not want to tell you or any player what that entails (because that would allow the botters to make better bots) and banned them.

have seen afk cloakies getting temp-banned by ccp after enough people (who wanted to use that system for ISK-making) reported them as bots (via petitions, before report a bot was implemented)

ccp is (surprise!) not infallible and is usually ill-prepared to deal with the level of maliciousness employed by eve players.

edit: heavy multiboxers tend to use some of the same tools botters use (to duplicate input across clients), so maybe that could lead to some confusion?

GM Horse

Posted - 2011.09.03 16:56:00 - [37]
 

Originally by: CCP Stillman
Originally by: Sullen Skoung
Oh come on who is REALLY surprised a "report a bot" system with no human check and balance is being abused lol

I just want to clarify this, having worked on the report a bot feature:

Nobody is banned without a human person doing an investigation to determine is a reported person is a bot or not. If you get reported and you're not a bot, then you have nothing to fear.

The Report a bot feature is simply a way of streamlining the process of reporting a bot. Previously you'd file a petition. Now you just report the person with a button, and a GM will investigate, just like they normally would.

tl;dr: Nobody gets banned automatically because somebody reported them. If you believe you got banned incorrectly, file a petition and a GM will investigate the case.


I'd like to add that our procedures are still the same - The only difference is that instead of getting hundreds of petitions where people go "I think this guy is a bot, I don't like that and think you should ban him!", we get all the reports in one handy list. The process is still the same - Player reports a suspect, we receive report, GM investigates and either takes action or doesn't. This is essentially just a streamlining tool for us and the players. We get better reports, and it's easier for you to report.

I'd also like to note that no amount of reporting will lead to a player getting banned if that player is not breaking any rules.

Lilith Ishanoya
Lai Dai Shipments
Posted - 2011.09.03 17:17:00 - [38]
 

Originally by: GM Horse
I'd like to add that our procedures are still the same - The only difference is that instead of getting hundreds of petitions where people go "I think this guy is a bot, I don't like that and think you should ban him!", we get all the reports in one handy list. The process is still the same - Player reports a suspect, we receive report, GM investigates and either takes action or doesn't. This is essentially just a streamlining tool for us and the players. We get better reports, and it's easier for you to report.

I'd also like to note that no amount of reporting will lead to a player getting banned if that player is not breaking any rules.


But but but, that shatters OP's story and all the others who came to this thread justifying their bans, what will become of them. Do you think they'll reply to this and demand an open investigation to clear their sullied name? Can we hope?

Herping yourDerp
Posted - 2011.09.03 17:21:00 - [39]
 

.... can u make a sticky with the ammount of accounts banned per day/week/month it will help with my marketing and tinfoil hat mini game.

T'Laar Bok
Posted - 2011.09.03 18:06:00 - [40]
 

Originally by: Ephemeron
I'm also in favor of empire Carebear Abuse Day - where CCP resets all system security to 0.0 for 1 day per month YARRRR!!


All that would achieve is for people who do not wish to pvp would be not logging in or if they did not undocking.

Cipher Jones
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.09.03 20:10:00 - [41]
 

Originally by: Captain Hindsite
Originally by: Cipher Jones


That's very interesting. I kind of assumed this would happen sooner than later. I take it that;
1. You are not botting
2. You are not banned.
?
The reason I ask can be paraphrased from Pulp Fiction...

Mr pink: "I can only be certain about what I did or didn't do. For all I know you're the botter."
Mr White: "For all I know you're the ****in botter!!!."
Mr Pink: "Now you're usin your head!"




l2tarantino


Learn what paraphrase means then learn to troll.

Cipher Jones
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.09.03 20:20:00 - [42]
 

Originally by: CCP Stillman
Originally by: Sullen Skoung
Oh come on who is REALLY surprised a "report a bot" system with no human check and balance is being abused lol

I just want to clarify this, having worked on the report a bot feature:

Nobody is banned without a human person doing an investigation to determine is a reported person is a bot or not. If you get reported and you're not a bot, then you have nothing to fear.

The Report a bot feature is simply a way of streamlining the process of reporting a bot. Previously you'd file a petition. Now you just report the person with a button, and a GM will investigate, just like they normally would.

tl;dr: Nobody gets banned automatically because somebody reported them. If you believe you got banned incorrectly, file a petition and a GM will investigate the case.


Thank you for the response.

Unfortunately it solicits more questions. What would happen in he scenario presented in this thread; I was reported for botting because of a POS battle, and then it turns out they were not botting and lost the POS?

Would the POS be replaced? Would the parties guilty of abuse be banned? Permanently?

Not much would make me rage quit Eve, but losing a POS to such a flaw would force me to consider it.

The Ban Hammer
Posted - 2011.09.03 21:16:00 - [43]
 

I am very glad to hear that the "Report Bot" tool only sends reports to a queue that GMs can view. I would also like to thank both CCP Stillman and GM Horse for weighing in on these troubling issues. While I have no problem with the investigation being public (as the result will be relevant to many), I don't want to create more trouble by going into specifics under Section 7e. We seem to have entered a muddy area, and it will be interesting to see how it resolves.

I'm in contact now with GM Horse regarding a slightly different, but highly related matter which seems to be the crux of the issue.


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