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Smoking Blunts
Posted - 2011.09.02 17:55:00 - [31]
 

Originally by: Crystal Liche
Originally by: Smoking Blunts
300mil for 90days, i loved them days. training for 90days on the last day set a 40-50day skill, get that free. then reactivate you account.




50 days? Less blunts, more attribute remaps Wink


lol you couldnt remap back then. iirc dread 5 took me 56days of not paying for my offline account

Whatisthis Idon'teven
Posted - 2011.09.02 18:42:00 - [32]
 

PLEX is a good thing. What some people don't seem willing to understand is that the money has to exist in-game for someone to buy a PLEX - a PLEX itself isn't capable of spontaneously spawning ISK out of thin air like many things in EVE (missions and ratting for example).

It can be used to keep someone active if they want more than one account but can't or don't want to pay for the additional monthly fees (so therefore more ships, and potential targets, online).

They can also be used by people who can't afford the regular monthly subscription with a single account due to RL constraints or even just because of a difficult month. Not everybody's financial situation is the same and in this situation PLEX is a great enabler.

If PLEX were removed the subscriber base would plummet and CCP would receive even less funding to maintain and develop EVE. RMT would also return with a vengeance.

But then the same people complaining about PLEX would just continue their forum whining about the lack of concurrent subscribers online at any time, and even more anti-RMT threadnaughts would pop up. Rolling Eyes

I fail to see any downside to PLEX, seriously.

VaMei
Posted - 2011.09.02 18:44:00 - [33]
 

Originally by: Takamori Maruyama
Geez plex is basically paying a sub for another player for isk in exchange, CCP wins, the player wins and the resub too.Money sink too.
Not ****ing rocket science.


If you mean to say that Plex is an isk sink, it's not. Aside from any trade fees, the isk changes hands from player to player, but it is not removed from the game.

Vincent Athena
Posted - 2011.09.02 18:48:00 - [34]
 

I think those who pay with PLEX are more invested in the game, not less: It takes much more in-game time to get a PLEX that it does to earn RL money for a subscription.

Also remember that a one year subscription costs $12 a month, but 2 PLEX costs $35, or $17.50 per month (not counting special sales). Every player CCP moves from subscription paying to PLEX paying increases CCPs income by $5.50 per month.

Ana Vyr
Caldari
Posted - 2011.09.02 18:51:00 - [35]
 

What amazes me about PLEX is that so many people spend real money on them to convert into game currency through the market. Enough folks do this to support all the people who pay for their accounts with PLEX.

Says a lot about how fun making ISK in game is for a lot of folks, eh? To me, if you are buying game currency, you are cheating, but I realize I'm in an extremely small minority thinking this way.

Bootleg Jack
Potters Field
Posted - 2011.09.02 18:51:00 - [36]
 

Originally by: Whatisthis Idon'teven
PLEX is a good thing. What some people don't seem willing to understand is that the money has to exist in-game for someone to buy a PLEX - a PLEX itself isn't capable of spontaneously spawning ISK out of thin air like many things in EVE (missions and ratting for example).

It can be used to keep someone active if they want more than one account but can't or don't want to pay for the additional monthly fees (so therefore more ships, and potential targets, online).

They can also be used by people who can't afford the regular monthly subscription with a single account due to RL constraints or even just because of a difficult month. Not everybody's financial situation is the same and in this situation PLEX is a great enabler.

If PLEX were removed the subscriber base would plummet and CCP would receive even less funding to maintain and develop EVE. RMT would also return with a vengeance.

But then the same people complaining about PLEX would just continue their forum whining about the lack of concurrent subscribers online at any time, and even more anti-RMT threadnaughts would pop up. Rolling Eyes

I fail to see any downside to PLEX, seriously.


Player buys PLEXs
Player sells PLEXs
Player buys 10 ships for PvP
Players corp made up of PLEX players steamrolls sov

Who really gives a damm that a botter in some system on the other side of EVE "earned" the ISK?

EVE is supposed to be as much about player enterprise versus player enterprise as it is pew pew, player enterprise is basically pointless.

Without the enterprise this may as well all be ported to a console app.

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2011.09.02 18:54:00 - [37]
 

I had a nice discussion on this topic a month or two ago

The tl;dr is that Player A selling a PLEX to player B for ISK is functionally equivalent to Player A using his ISK making alt B to make ISK. As far as the rest of EVE is concerned, there's no difference.

The important difference between the PLEX system and CCP just straight out selling ISK is that the ISK that Player B pays Player A for that PLEX still has to be earned normally. Player B has to rat, mission, invent, trade, whatever. He has to play the game.

In a game like EVE, where the game is interaction with other players, this is a vital distinction.

PLEX allows players with a surplus of money and a deficit of time to do what they enjoy in the game, and it allows poor players with time on their hands to play at all. If there were no PLEX system, then a pretty large percentage of both the Player A and the Player B types would simply not play. That reduces content for all of us.

Bootleg Jack
Potters Field
Posted - 2011.09.02 19:01:00 - [38]
 

That distinction is only valid when you ignore the security zone differences in EVE and if you ignore volumes, it sounds fine for 1 PLEX, but not when it is 10, 20 or more getting paid to one player who could NEVER earn that much in such a short period even if he had the time.

Sure the gravy example sounds wonderful.



Whatisthis Idon'teven
Posted - 2011.09.02 19:26:00 - [39]
 

Originally by: Bootleg Jack
Player buys PLEXs
Player sells PLEXs
Player buys 10 ships for PvP
Players corp made up of PLEX players steamrolls sov

...

Without the enterprise this may as well all be ported to a console app.


Sure some people will use PLEX to fund their PvP, if you feel at a disadvantage then buy/sell some yourself.

Besides, I'd like to see some proof that player corps consisting solely of PLEX sellers are or ever have been 'steamrolling sov' in any way. Simply having copious amounts of ISK does not equal success in PvP; experience, persistence and teamwork will always be more important.

Botters typically don't sell PLEX, since that would require paying IRL money to exchange into in-game ISK, which is kind of the opposite of what RMT botters are about. I'm a bit confused as to what you're getting at there.

All PLEX does in terms of enterprise is to transfer money from one person to another, and the seller has to pay IRL money for that ability. So it cuts out the need to run PvE, so what? Some people would likely quit if they were forced to run PvE all day just to PvP, and that wouldn't benefit anyone.

Primera Black
Posted - 2011.09.02 19:31:00 - [40]
 

Originally by: Simetraz
Edited by: Simetraz on 02/09/2011 15:16:08
a) The problem is how can you expect to keep these players if they can't afford 15.00 a month.
b) You can't update the game cause they can't afford to upgrade their computers.
c) And it also leads to the question of why they should care a tiny bit what happens to the game when they are not willing to pay for it.
d) They should have tied them to a paying account.



a) i can afford it but i'm not willing to pay anymore because nothing you could do in this game is either interesting or worth the time/effort. for me at least. so why should i pay for it then? then why am i still here you might ask. because i know people who play it and still think it's still worth the money, allthough judging by dropping frequency i'm able to meet them online they might begin to doubt that too.

b) do you really think that a graphical upgrade alone will generate more paying customers?

c) maybe because the concept of an MMO-spaceshipgame is still interesting and unique despite the fact it is poorly implemented these days.

d) sure if CCP can afford beside losing money now is losing former paying customers interest in the game at all then do it. honestly i would really like to see what would happen if they drop that failsafe.

TharOkha
Posted - 2011.09.02 19:32:00 - [41]
 

Originally by: Simetraz
People talk about free to play, it is already here and we are seeing the results in the poorer quality of the player base.



Behold, all mighty, pro-ultra-super player. Rolling Eyes PLEX didnt change anything. Just player A (selling plex) pay subcription to player B (PLEX buyer)

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2011.09.02 19:35:00 - [42]
 

Originally by: Whatisthis Idon'teven


Besides, I'd like to see some proof that player corps consisting solely of PLEX sellers are or ever have been 'steamrolling sov' in any way. Simply having copious amounts of ISK does not equal success in PvP; experience, persistence and teamwork will always be more important.


More to the point, people who repeat this meme seem to have simply no idea just how many PLEX - and therefore how much money - would be required to do this. It would take around 180 PLEX to buy a decently fitted titan - that's over $3200. And that only gets you one titan. You need a lot more than that, plus the motherships. Is anyone seriously claiming that people are dumping the quarter-million or so dollars required to even be considered a player in the sov game?

TharOkha
Posted - 2011.09.02 19:47:00 - [43]
 

Edited by: TharOkha on 02/09/2011 19:48:24
Originally by: Malcanis
It would take around 180 PLEX to buy a decently fitted titan - that's over $3200.

Also selling 180 plex isnt easy. For example, if you want sell 180 plex today (comparing amarr market data) the price of PLEX would drop from 378m to 350m. And thats only one titan. In other words, flood market with something and the price will drop drasticaly. ppl claiming these stupid words "PLEX is P2W" are just uneducated how market works.
So mark this words:
THERE IS NO WAY YOU CAN BUILD AND HOLD SOVERENITY BY PLEX. You would need quantum of PLEXes and selling quantum of plexes would result in massive drop of their price, so even less money for Plex seller
yes someone can buy some fancy fitted BS for PLEX but those players are nothing to EVE mechanics.

Skex Relbore
Gallente
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
Posted - 2011.09.02 19:49:00 - [44]
 

Originally by: Bootleg Jack



Player buys PLEXs
Player sells PLEXs
Player buys 10 ships for PvP
Players corp made up of PLEX players steamrolls sov

Who really gives a damm that a botter in some system on the other side of EVE "earned" the ISK?

EVE is supposed to be as much about player enterprise versus player enterprise as it is pew pew, player enterprise is basically pointless.

Without the enterprise this may as well all be ported to a console app.



One, I seriously doubt the major Null sec players are paying cash for all those super caps. Botting maybe, buying plex to get the isk? I seriously friggin doubt it. Oh I'm sure there are a few out there but in the volumes you're talking about, no way. People with the kind of scratch to do that have better things to do with their time than play video games.

Nullsec SOV holders are most likely in the buying plex for isk side of things, These are generally people with plenty of time and you can be pretty certain the bulk of them have enough time in the game to as well as time available to have worked out their isk flow.

For the most part I suspect Plex sellers are people like me, folks who have families and full time jobs who don't have the time to log in to grind isk but can afford to drop an extra 35 bucks here and there for a GTC to buy some isk. which we then use so we can actually do something we enjoy in the game for the 2-3 hours we get to play rather than spending it trying to earn some isk.

It's not any different than if I offered a to pay a friends sub if he'd pass me a few hundred million isk now and then.

Hell functionally it's no different than if the plex seller had an alt account they paid and played themselves to fund their mains activities.

Different security levels are irrelevant nothing stops a nullsec player from having a money making alt in high sec. In fact many if not most do (particularly after the anomaly nerf).



Alexandra Duckett
Posted - 2011.09.02 20:00:00 - [45]
 

Yea, well, the reason I don't have issue with PLEX is that it costs way too much real life money to use it to buy anything remotely useful for anything other than solo play.

For example, while 20 USD will get you around 400mil, and let somebody afford their mission ships and some minor pvp, and 100+ USD will give them enough for a relatively pimped pvp ship, you would need upwards of 50 plexes (1000 USD) to buy a supercarrier, and 4 times that to buy a titan. 4000 USD to buy a titan? I hardly think any person would do that.

And, obviously using plex to buy stuff in game isn't done by alliances, in fact, we have a problem with alliances dumping their isk into real money via RMT.

Ultimately the fact is that isk is pretty easy to make in the game, and the people who buy plex with RL money are, in my opinion, the poorer players as they don't know how to make lots of money off the market, or via other parts of the game. Granted I still love them since they pay for my subs indirectly and I have no issue with them, but suggesting that "free-to-play" players are of "poorer quality" is completely incorrect. You're basically saying that people who aren't rich enough to afford 15 USD/month + whatever other money you put into PLEX are dumb, and that's hardly correct IRL.

It certainly is questionable if anybody who can't afford 15 USD/month (me) should be playing at all, but whatever :P. The ironic part is that if I RMT'd the money I make in game, I would be making more money than I make IRL. But then again, I'm a poor college student, so meh.

Whatisthis Idon'teven
Posted - 2011.09.02 20:11:00 - [46]
 

Originally by: Malcanis
More to the point, people who repeat this meme seem to have simply no idea just how many PLEX - and therefore how much money - would be required to do this. It would take around 180 PLEX to buy a decently fitted titan - that's over $3200. And that only gets you one titan. You need a lot more than that, plus the motherships.

Interesting, I hadn't run the numbers but that really puts it into perspective. Shocked

Faydin Smith
Posted - 2011.09.09 06:26:00 - [47]
 

plex is the greatest idea ever come to a mmorpg. You worry about noobs using buying isk with real money to get rich? well i can tell u any other mmorpg has this problem too except they are buying it from a third party farmers. Plex eliminates farmers because no one can make real money from selling isk effectively due to plex. CCP isnt losing subs because the noobs who buy plex from ccp effectively are paying double (sub plus plex) i think the OP just cant see the big picture

Faydin Smith
Posted - 2011.09.09 06:39:00 - [48]
 

by farmers i dont mean the high sec carebear miners or missioners who never pvp. I meant the real professional gamers who get pay a few dollar an hour to run 4-5 accounts making billions each day in isk which then spam us to death in game channels going " 600m isk for $35.99 USD plus go to www.blahblahblah.com fast transfer under 1hr garantee!!"

you dont see those spams thanks to plex!

Ashley SchmidtVonGoldberg
Posted - 2011.09.09 14:25:00 - [49]
 

Most of the people i know including myself would never ever pay a penny ever again for this game. a few hours of missioning in a pimped pve ship pays for the plex.

Most people are addicted to SP not the game and thats about it


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