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Brooks Puuntai
Minmatar
Nomadic Asylum
Posted - 2011.09.02 14:18:00 - [31]
 

Originally by: Othran
[
Edit 2 - having just read Malcanis post, I wonder if its something to do with mods that boost the powergrid - ranis has a mapc on it





Interesting. Since 2 guns are offline every time I switch to my Brutix. Which has a reactor unit on it.

Ghoest
Posted - 2011.09.02 14:20:00 - [32]
 

Honestly do you guys even try? Or is there just no one competent left to bug check this stuff?

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2011.09.02 14:21:00 - [33]
 

Originally by: CCP Tuxford
Originally by: Othran

...


Thanks looking now.


This is the Machfit, if you need it:


[Machariel, MalcMael]
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Damage Control II
Dark Blood Power Diagnostic System
Signal Amplifier II

Core C-Type 100MN MicroWarpdrive
Large Shield Extender II
Invulnerability Field II
Invulnerability Field II
Photon Scattering Field II

1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, EMP L
1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, EMP L
1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, EMP L
1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, EMP L
1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, EMP L
1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, EMP L
1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, EMP L
Medium Energy Neutralizer II

Large Core Defence Field Extender I
Large Core Defence Field Extender I
Large Core Defence Field Extender I

KaarBaak
Minmatar
Seatec Astronomy
Posted - 2011.09.02 14:31:00 - [34]
 



Translation: Computers are hard!


CCP Tuxford

Posted - 2011.09.02 14:32:00 - [35]
 

Ok I got it. It is the MAPC but it is also chance based so it of course doesn't happen to me (It's like Murphy's law of testing). I'm working on a fix now.

Brooks Puuntai
Minmatar
Nomadic Asylum
Posted - 2011.09.02 14:35:00 - [36]
 

Originally by: CCP Tuxford
Ok I got it. It is the MAPC but it is also chance based so it of course doesn't happen to me (It's like Murphy's law of testing). I'm working on a fix now.


I don't know if its actually chance based since its been consistent for me on a single ship.

Skippermonkey
Tactical Knightmare
Posted - 2011.09.02 14:39:00 - [37]
 

Originally by: CCP Tuxford
Ok I got it. It is the MAPC but it is also chance based so it of course doesn't happen to me (It's like Murphy's law of testing). I'm working on a fix now.

NEW FEATURE - chance based ship fitting

your modules might be online, they might not!

nice

Intangible X
Posted - 2011.09.02 14:40:00 - [38]
 

Originally by: CCP Tuxford
Ok I got it. It is the MAPC but it is also chance based so it of course doesn't happen to me (It's like Murphy's law of testing). I'm working on a fix now.



Originally by: Intangible X
version=7.11
build=288329

Still getting modules offlined when switching to(or from, I can't tell) a ship that has a "Current Router" rig fitted to supply enough powergrid.

It happens every time I try this.

The other ship that doesn't have a Current Router does not get modules offlined.


Quoting myself.



Perhaps it's a good idea to check all kind of modules which have an effect on the ships cpu/powergrid. Unless they are treated the exact same way, I haven't seen the code :)

To me it looks like the ship decides if it has enough resources before calculating modules which enhances the resources.

Othran
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2011.09.02 14:42:00 - [39]
 

Originally by: CCP Tuxford
Ok I got it. It is the MAPC but it is also chance based so it of course doesn't happen to me (It's like Murphy's law of testing). I'm working on a fix now.


Remember to check the PDU as it boosts grid too Wink

Nice to know (for once) forum whoring helped....

Intangible X
Posted - 2011.09.02 14:45:00 - [40]
 

Originally by: Othran
Originally by: CCP Tuxford
Ok I got it. It is the MAPC but it is also chance based so it of course doesn't happen to me (It's like Murphy's law of testing). I'm working on a fix now.


Remember to check the PDU as it boosts grid too Wink

Nice to know (for once) forum whoring helped....



If you repeat what I said with different words, perhaps it will make the point more clear!

CCP Tuxford

Posted - 2011.09.02 14:50:00 - [41]
 

Originally by: Brooks Puuntai
Originally by: CCP Tuxford
Ok I got it. It is the MAPC but it is also chance based so it of course doesn't happen to me (It's like Murphy's law of testing). I'm working on a fix now.


I don't know if its actually chance based since its been consistent for me on a single ship.

Well it is chance based but sort of per ship. We're looping over a dictionary which isn't ordered. If the MAPC is the last thing to be added we'll actually fail to online some modules. It's pretty likely when looping over a dictionary of items then you'll loop over it exactly the same way the second time. So it's kind of chance based but consistent per ship.

This has happened on the server as well and was resolved by fitting the low slot modules first. Then it broke again when we introduced rigs that affected cpu and powergrid and yet again when we introduced subsystems. We have since then solved this in a bit more graceful (sane) manner. However I can't use the exact same method on the client which is what I got to fix.

Brooks Puuntai
Minmatar
Nomadic Asylum
Posted - 2011.09.02 14:50:00 - [42]
 

Pretty much any mod that effects grid or cpu is the root of the cause.

Othran
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2011.09.02 14:51:00 - [43]
 

Originally by: Intangible X
Originally by: Othran
Originally by: CCP Tuxford
Ok I got it. It is the MAPC but it is also chance based so it of course doesn't happen to me (It's like Murphy's law of testing). I'm working on a fix now.


Remember to check the PDU as it boosts grid too Wink

Nice to know (for once) forum whoring helped....



If you repeat what I said with different words, perhaps it will make the point more clear!


When I started my reply you hadn't said anything. Get over yourself mmmm? Wink

Caladan Broood
Posted - 2011.09.02 14:52:00 - [44]
 

Originally by: Skippermonkey
Originally by: CCP Tuxford
Ok I got it. It is the MAPC but it is also chance based so it of course doesn't happen to me (It's like Murphy's law of testing). I'm working on a fix now.

NEW FEATURE - chance based ship fitting

your modules might be online, they might not!

nice


I for one lol'd at that statement.

Othran
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2011.09.02 14:53:00 - [45]
 

Originally by: CCP Tuxford
Originally by: Brooks Puuntai
Originally by: CCP Tuxford
Ok I got it. It is the MAPC but it is also chance based so it of course doesn't happen to me (It's like Murphy's law of testing). I'm working on a fix now.


I don't know if its actually chance based since its been consistent for me on a single ship.

Well it is chance based but sort of per ship. We're looping over a dictionary which isn't ordered. If the MAPC is the last thing to be added we'll actually fail to online some modules. It's pretty likely when looping over a dictionary of items then you'll loop over it exactly the same way the second time. So it's kind of chance based but consistent per ship.

This has happened on the server as well and was resolved by fitting the low slot modules first. Then it broke again when we introduced rigs that affected cpu and powergrid and yet again when we introduced subsystems. We have since then solved this in a bit more graceful (sane) manner. However I can't use the exact same method on the client which is what I got to fix.


Makes sense. Sounds like horribly fugly code though.

Intangible X
Posted - 2011.09.02 15:08:00 - [46]
 

Edited by: Intangible X on 02/09/2011 15:11:36
Edited by: Intangible X on 02/09/2011 15:08:37
So you just iterate through the entire list of items, adding them as they come.

I would do the following:
1. Hard-code to fit rigs first.

2. Check if modules that affect pg/cpu have some kind of common ID, and always put them second in the list, after rigs.

If success:
jolly good.


If fail:
1. If that fails, I would temporarily hard-code to always try and fit those few item-ids that affect PG/CPU first. There aren't too many items that affect pg/cpu.

Deploy.

2. Ask the DB-guy to make foreign key for "order of priority to fit" to the module database-table. Not necesarily this, but something suitable to determine these modules from other modules in your db.

3. Remove temp solution.

Mioelnir
Minmatar
Cataclysm Enterprises
Ev0ke
Posted - 2011.09.02 15:23:00 - [47]
 

Edited by: Mioelnir on 02/09/2011 15:28:58
foreach item ($dictionary)
if ($modifies fitting) put_in($bucket_a)
else put_in($bucket_b)
end

foreach item ($bucket_a)
make online
end

foreach item ($bucket_b)
make online
end

Slighlty degrades runtime behavior since you loop over every item twice, but since the list is limited to a maximum of 8+8+8+3+5+10 = 42 items, and computers running the eve client tend to be faster than pocket calculators, I'd say you're fine.

If, however, some of the fitting-enhancing modules can only be fitted, if other fitting enhancing modules need to online first, you need to loop the dictionary/bucket until either everything is online or the amount of offline/online modules does not change between iterations. Doing that for bucket_a and then a single pass over bucket_b might yield good results.

Shasz
Angels of Anarchy
Posted - 2011.09.02 15:27:00 - [48]
 

Originally by: CCP Tuxford


This may seem like a silly question but some of those Minmatar turret icons are really dark. Are you sure they are not actually online?


First let me say you're a brave brave soul Tuxford, and thanks for the updates and real-time feedback with the players in trying to get this resolved quickly.

Secondly, can you pass along to the art team how ******ed a black icon on a space background or dark fitting screen is? My wife flies Minmatar exclusively and she's ****ed as hell at these new icons.

Here's hoping you get this fixed with update #3 before my wife gets home in 4 hours :)

Miss Rabblt
Posted - 2011.09.02 15:34:00 - [49]
 

Originally by: CCP Tuxford
We're looping over a dictionary which isn't ordered. If the MAPC is the last thing to be added we'll actually fail to online some modules. It's pretty likely when looping over a dictionary of items then you'll loop over it exactly the same way the second time. So it's kind of chance based but consistent per ship.


heh. Have you ever seen Qt sources? Once i found and fixed bug like this. It was QPalette and dictionary with class names as keys. It's pretty funny to use "unordered" list (i mean it's order isn't what we need now) when you need some kind of ordering for your purpose. In Qt case it was ordering by pure strings comparison when you need to proceed inheritance of classes.

My advice (as can do developer): take some time and rewrite this part to use strong order of modules. Order must be:
1) modules which give some resources.
2) modules which only take resources.
You solved this problem for now but in case of new module which will be placed into mid or high slot and give CPU or POWER you will get the same bug and will spent time again.

usrevenge
Posted - 2011.09.02 15:37:00 - [50]
 

im under the impression this bug was reported in the sisi build much much earlier then this.... at least u fixed it, now give us the old hanger back and we are in buisness

Apollo Gabriel
Mercatoris
Etherium Cartel
Posted - 2011.09.02 15:40:00 - [51]
 

even the high five video lags ...

sorry couldn't resist.

Lykouleon
Wildly Inappropriate
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.09.02 15:59:00 - [52]
 

I'm just going to put the obligatory "TTTTUUUUXXXXFFFFOOOOORRRRDDDDD *shakefist*" in this thread then thank Tuxy for looking into this.

Verun Joral
Posted - 2011.09.02 16:00:00 - [53]
 

Originally by: usrevenge
im under the impression this bug was reported in the sisi build much much earlier then this.... at least u fixed it, now give us the old hanger back and we are in buisness


Apparently this bug and the sisi bug that was reported although look the same are two different bugs with the same result. The previous bug was fixed and as nobody reported the bug anymore they assumed everything was ok, only to find the new bug in live.

E6o5
Posted - 2011.09.02 16:24:00 - [54]
 

Does the word "unittest" ring a bell?

CCP Tuxford

Posted - 2011.09.02 16:28:00 - [55]
 

I've become a bit silent in this thread it's just the fact that I'm really really busy right now. I probably won't get the fixes made today out until after the weekend but please keep on reporting issues about offlining modules if they don't fit into what we've been describing here.

As for me being brave then I'm really not. Being open and candid about mistakes made by us has always worked out for me so it's not something I'm afraid of doing although I have been doing far to little of open conversation with the community after I moved over to programming.

Worstluck
Dead Pilots Society
Chaos Theory Alliance
Posted - 2011.09.02 16:32:00 - [56]
 

I am still experiencing the issue. Logged in today, after patch #2 was applied and four of the launchers on my ship were offlined. I am also having problems loading some ammo out in space. I will try load a random type of missile, and after the 10 seconds is up, i get a message about the ammo not being there. When I try to then unload launchers, it says they already are, even though it's showing it's still loaded. Confusing....but it's messed up regardless Confused

Ai Mei
Starfish Operating Syndicate
Posted - 2011.09.02 16:34:00 - [57]
 

Clear your cache. Even with fixes sometimes the cache still causes stuff to mess up.

CCP Tuxford

Posted - 2011.09.02 16:34:00 - [58]
 

Originally by: Worstluck
I am still experiencing the issue. Logged in today, after patch #2 was applied and four of the launchers on my ship were offlined. I am also having problems loading some ammo out in space. I will try load a random type of missile, and after the 10 seconds is up, i get a message about the ammo not being there. When I try to then unload launchers, it says they already are, even though it's showing it's still loaded. Confusing....but it's messed up regardless Confused


Can you give me time and location (if you don't feel comfortable doing it here then just put it in a bug report)

Othran
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2011.09.02 16:44:00 - [59]
 

Originally by: CCP Tuxford
I've become a bit silent in this thread it's just the fact that I'm really really busy right now. I probably won't get the fixes made today out until after the weekend but please keep on reporting issues about offlining modules if they don't fit into what we've been describing here.

As for me being brave then I'm really not. Being open and candid about mistakes made by us has always worked out for me so it's not something I'm afraid of doing although I have been doing far to little of open conversation with the community after I moved over to programming.


This is a client-side issue (and hence patch) - yes? If so I don't think anyone wants you to roll it out at this time on a Friday ;)

supersexysucker
Posted - 2011.09.02 17:07:00 - [60]
 

Originally by: Garia666
Ok but there supposed to be allot of people who reported this bug on SISI.
How is it possible that such an bug makes it on the main server?


Cause ccp can't program, eve is nothing but a ton of patchs, the whole game's code is crap. Anyone know of any other software that has this many issues. Don't be saying windows... as that is HUGE compared to eve, and the issues are more people hacking than MS failing to make a window pop up.


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