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blankseplocked Nerf the damn Drake
 
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Avalon Stormborn
Gallente
Posted - 2011.09.02 09:24:00 - [1]
 

God it's too overpowered for a Battlecruiser! That's all I can say on the matter. Drake here Drake there! No wonder everyone pilots one.

Sports Bet
Posted - 2011.09.02 09:53:00 - [2]
 

I say we allow it to crash into stations/outposts.

Which I would do if anyone would ever force me in a drake.

They are stupid carebear ships. I don't care what FOTM saiz.

Vertisce Soritenshi
SHADOW WARD
Tragedy.
Posted - 2011.09.02 09:55:00 - [3]
 

lol...noob.

Drake has already suffered through 2 nerfs. Just because you suck at PvP doesn't mean another ship needs to be nerfed again.

Gallion
Amarr
Posted - 2011.09.02 10:18:00 - [4]
 

the Drake isnt OP for a BC its just fitted that way. stop whining over u inability to take them down.

Avalon Stormborn
Gallente
Posted - 2011.09.02 10:20:00 - [5]
 

A Drake easily tanks a level 4 mission. Try do that in a Brutix. And I'm not talking about PvP. I don't do PvP.

Gallion
Amarr
Posted - 2011.09.02 10:29:00 - [6]
 

Edited by: Gallion on 02/09/2011 10:33:06
Edited by: Gallion on 02/09/2011 10:29:54
A Drake Pilot has to put Serious Skill training to do L4s it not possible with only 2 months training (the DPS & Tank) that same kind of skill can be put into the other BC to do the Same mission the Drake can do. (My Prophecy can/could do L4's).

and this topic is invalid if your NOT talking about PVP.

Sindeya Shimaya
Posted - 2011.09.02 11:10:00 - [7]
 

It's funny that people never mention the Gila. The Gila can sport the tank of a Domi and the gank of a Domi (sentry/heavy drones) - as a cruiser sized ship. Nobody ever complains about that!

Nicolo da'Vicenza
Amarr
Divine Power.
Atlas.
Posted - 2011.09.02 12:04:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Sindeya Shimaya
It's funny that people never mention the Gila. The Gila can sport the tank of a Domi and the gank of a Domi (sentry/heavy drones) - as a cruiser sized ship. Nobody ever complains about that!
to be specific, the Gila can sport the tank of a Drake and the gank of a Domi.

Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
Posted - 2011.09.02 12:49:00 - [9]
 

I have yet to hear a single complaint about HAM Drakes other than "OMG they HURT!" so it seems the Drake itself is fine but heavy missiles are not.

Problem is that you get sniper-HAC ranges out of a basic weapon system that is easily available/usable.
None of the other tier 2's even gets close to those ranges without using umpteen range mods and/or sacrificing all hope of a tank .. and even then the damage is usually lower than the generic Hvy.Msl. spamming Drake.

Cut 33% off the flight time of heavy missiles (and lights for that matter) and they will be on-par with the rest of the tier 2's.

PS: Gila is a fat-ass tank, but drones have a tendency to pop rather quickly so its damage is mediocre at best .. and "lol" at equalling the gank of a Domi with a Gila, you need to get your gun skills up if three cruiser sized launchers outdamages 6 BS guns Very Happy

Deviana Sevidon
Gallente
Panta-Rhei
Butterfly Effect Alliance
Posted - 2011.09.02 12:57:00 - [10]
 

Passive shield tanking and the way how modules stack is certainly overpowered, but people got used to their overpowered passive shield tanks and they would scream for murder is this is finally balanced.

De'Veldrin
Minmatar
Norse'Storm Battle Group
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2011.09.02 12:59:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Avalon Stormborn
A Drake easily tanks a level 4 mission. Try do that in a Brutix. And I'm not talking about PvP. I don't do PvP.


Then why the hell do you care? It's not like you're going to be shooting one any time soon.

Pinky Denmark
The Cursed Navy
Important Internet Spaceship League
Posted - 2011.09.02 13:28:00 - [12]
 

Drake have their advantages but most people will lose a 1vs1 against similar skilled and well fit Harbinger/Hurricane pilots, and Brutix/Blastermyrmidon can certainly give it a good fight too...

Pinky

Thorian Baalnorn
Posted - 2011.09.02 15:11:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Avalon Stormborn
A Drake easily tanks a level 4 mission. Try do that in a Brutix. And I'm not talking about PvP. I don't do PvP.



Try using a Myrm which, like the drake, is a TIER 2 battlecruiser. And like the drake, it can fit a pretty good tank( shield tank at that).


Otherwise, the drake is fine.

Joe Risalo
Posted - 2011.09.02 15:29:00 - [14]
 

Drake is fine.

It sacrifices dps for a good tank.

If you use HAMs then you're sacrificing range for more dps...

Another thing... Look at eft. A well fitted drake still has less EHP than most bs's when fitted for pvp and even less dps.

It's easily locked down and stopped from doing anything including firing without fof missiles. Which are risky in themselves.

The passive tank may be powerful, but they lose dps and as well as other pvp based skills in order to have that tank.

So next time you wanna fight a drake, just scram it dampen the hell out of it or jam it, then fly circles around him leaving him with nothing to do but die.

Just because drakes take longer to die doesn't mean drakes are harder to kill

Deviana Sevidon
Gallente
Panta-Rhei
Butterfly Effect Alliance
Posted - 2011.09.02 17:43:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Joe Risalo
Drake is fine.

It sacrifices dps for a good tank.

If you use HAMs then you're sacrificing range for more dps...

Another thing... Look at eft. A well fitted drake still has less EHP than most bs's when fitted for pvp and even less dps.

It's easily locked down and stopped from doing anything including firing without fof missiles. Which are risky in themselves.

The passive tank may be powerful, but they lose dps and as well as other pvp based skills in order to have that tank.

So next time you wanna fight a drake, just scram it dampen the hell out of it or jam it, then fly circles around him leaving him with nothing to do but die.

Just because drakes take longer to die doesn't mean drakes are harder to kill


You are missing the point. Drakes are Battlecruisers not Battleships and I don't see a reason to give them a better tank then most BS. You also have to compare them DPS and tank wise to other battlecruisers and HACs and then you will notice that the Drake certainly stands out.

Duchess Starbuckington
Posted - 2011.09.02 18:55:00 - [16]
 

Edited by: Duchess Starbuckington on 02/09/2011 18:55:44
Quote:
Cut 33% off the flight time of heavy missiles (and lights for that matter) and they will be on-par with the rest of the tier 2's.


Sure, just make them hit instantly like guns do. After all, if missiles are going to have all the disadvantages of turrets they should get the advantages as well.

Quote:
and this topic is invalid if your NOT talking about PVP.


^ This.

Satav
Posted - 2011.09.02 19:51:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Avalon Stormborn
A Drake easily tanks a level 4 mission. Try do that in a Brutix. And I'm not talking about PvP. I don't do PvP.


Wow. Um, several things wrong with this comparison.

First. The drake is a tier 2 BC; the brutix is a tier 1 (aka. the Myrmidon is the equivalent.)
Second. Your assesment of the drake being overpowered is limited to PvE (you said so yourself) and not all aspects of its game use including PvP. Meaning, proposing a change to a ships abilities just to balance one of many areas is naive.
Third. Eve is all about ships that are good at one or two things and not very good at many others. Making all the ships the same hp. the same dps. and just having them use different modules would ruin the game.

Just a suggestion. If you are disgruntled with the drakes tanking power and you are predominantly a gallente pilot, try flying a dominix. Yes this is a BS. However, if i remember correctly, they are almost as cheap as a drake.

Fly Safe in the Stars.

Thorian Baalnorn
Posted - 2011.09.02 19:59:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Deviana Sevidon
Originally by: Joe Risalo
Drake is fine.

It sacrifices dps for a good tank.

If you use HAMs then you're sacrificing range for more dps...

Another thing... Look at eft. A well fitted drake still has less EHP than most bs's when fitted for pvp and even less dps.

It's easily locked down and stopped from doing anything including firing without fof missiles. Which are risky in themselves.

The passive tank may be powerful, but they lose dps and as well as other pvp based skills in order to have that tank.

So next time you wanna fight a drake, just scram it dampen the hell out of it or jam it, then fly circles around him leaving him with nothing to do but die.

Just because drakes take longer to die doesn't mean drakes are harder to kill


You are missing the point. Drakes are Battlecruisers not Battleships and I don't see a reason to give them a better tank then most BS. You also have to compare them DPS and tank wise to other battlecruisers and HACs and then you will notice that the Drake certainly stands out.



I think you are missing the point. Drakes can have great tanks and great range.But:

1)They have to use a good portion of their mids to tank.
2)Their bonused damage is the most resisted dam type.
3)They have relatively low dps .
4)HAMS have terribad applied DPS and are almost completely useless on anything smaller that a BC.
5)You can negate missile damage by just moving...in any direction.
6)The ships themselves are slow.
7)NO mids for EWAR( because you used them to tank). You can shoot stuff but unless someone else is pointing it, it can probably warp( or burn and warp) whenever it wants.
8)They have good missile range(HML) but you can make a sandwich between the time you fire and the time it hits.When i use a drake in fleets, i always go for the secondary. Because i would never make a KM going for the primary unless it was a capital or structure.

Drakes are decent fleet ships and really good pve ships.They can solo but are not wonderful at it.This is their balance.

Ephemeron
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2011.09.02 20:48:00 - [19]
 

force BC to use Large rigs, so their price is more in line with their power

Covert Kitty
Amarr
SRS Industries
SRS.
Posted - 2011.09.03 02:20:00 - [20]
 

Edited by: Covert Kitty on 03/09/2011 02:28:53
Quote:
A Drake easily tanks a level 4 mission. Try do that in a Brutix. And I'm not talking about PvP. I don't do PvP.

So... your talking about "balance", but not talking about pvp? Sure, the drake can tank a L4, that doesn't actually make it a good choice for a L4, the dps sucks.

As far as pvp is concerned, they have been successful in large blobs, cheap, good tank. For any other kind of combat however it's too slow to be used for anything but bait.

Quote:
No wonder everyone pilots one.

For PvE, sure, they are popular. Tengu or CNR would be better. For PvP, nonsense.

Digital Gaidin
Gallente
Posted - 2011.09.03 04:43:00 - [21]
 

As far as Drake and missions go, you could nearly as easily run a Hurricane or Myrmidon with a passive shield tank with slightly more DPS and slightly less tank. Both could tank a Lvl 4 mission just fine. Both would be just as effective as the Drake. The Harbinger was always a bit harder to tank, but could probably squeeze out a decent enough tank if flown properly (dual rep) but capacitor might be an issue. Those numbers are only using T2 gear as well.

For PvE, they are "easy" to fit and fly... which is why they are flown so often. You don't really have any negatives in a mission, as you can relatively easily tank any damage type and with enough perseverance, eventually kill your targets with your crap DPS. For PvP, they are great in numbers when you combine large amounts of missile spam to equal a missile-based Alpha... see Firewall tactics for one solution of how to kill them.

I prefer my EVE to have ships of all shapes and sizes, with many different variations and some ships VERY good at certain things. Drakes are one of those ships that are VERY good at certain things. As already mentioned here, it is not very good at many other things - especially PvP solo.

I'd rather see some of the less-than-stellar ships improved, rather than something that is well-rounded with some sharp edges dulled.

Flynn Fetladral
Royal Order of Security Specialists
Posted - 2011.09.03 08:51:00 - [22]
 

Posting in a 'nerf drake cos it can solo tank level 4 mission' thread.

Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
Posted - 2011.09.03 09:25:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Avalon Stormborn
A Drake easily tanks a level 4 mission. Try do that in a Brutix. And I'm not talking about PvP. I don't do PvP.
I would see this as more of a need to boost the Brutix tbh.

Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
Posted - 2011.09.03 09:54:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Duchess Starbuckington
Sure, just make them hit instantly like guns do. After all, if missiles are going to have all the disadvantages of turrets they should get the advantages as well.

So you want them to be limited in damage type like lasers/hybrids as well? Smile

Instantly wouldn't make sense, much much faster on the other hand .. missiles under constant thrust in a zero-G vacuum should travel like bats out of hell.
Speed ought to be quadrupled (or more!) with short burn times. Ideally they would accelerate towards target but will probably play havoc with CCP's precious server resources.

Duchess Starbuckington
Posted - 2011.09.03 10:57:00 - [25]
 

Quote:
So you want them to be limited in damage type like lasers/hybrids as well? Smile


Nah just make projectiles only bonused towards explosive damage. Sorted.

Quote:
Instantly wouldn't make sense, much much faster on the other hand .. missiles under constant thrust in a zero-G vacuum should travel like bats out of hell. Speed ought to be quadrupled (or more!) with short burn times. Ideally they would accelerate towards target but will probably play havoc with CCP's precious server resources.


I certainly could live with a range cut if my HMLs were flying at 10km/s.
Actually, regarding them messing with CCP's engine: they said that they tried high speed missiles but they played havoc with the server - but I can't find how fast is "too fast". So then I did a bit of EFT warrioring, and it's possible to have missiles flying to a max of about 11km/s, using in-game ships and rigs. (Possibly slightly more with implants).

So it should be safely assumed that at least 10km/s is doable.

Laechyd Eldgorn
Caldari
draketrain
Posted - 2011.09.03 11:23:00 - [26]
 

lol draek mentioned

srs tengu is wtg now is t3 draek

will tengutrein

Tiina Turmiola
Minmatar
draketrain
Posted - 2011.09.03 11:25:00 - [27]
 

Nerf draketrain

Jalmari Huitsikko
Caldari
draketrain
Posted - 2011.09.03 11:27:00 - [28]
 

Confirming DRAKETRAIN is overpowered.

EdTeach
Posted - 2011.09.03 11:28:00 - [29]
 



IRONY 101 -

When I started playing EVE two years ago and wanted to bring my Drake to nul PvP, everyone laughed at me.

I was told on more than one occasion "Armor tank RR gangs only noob! Drakes suck for PvP. Missiles suck for PvP."


All my discussion and aguing went for naught and I moved out of nul as a poor distraught Caldari pilot.

Now look at what roams.

pfft to all of ya! :D

----

Andrea Roche
Posted - 2011.09.03 12:19:00 - [30]
 

Edited by: Andrea Roche on 03/09/2011 12:32:42
Edited by: Andrea Roche on 03/09/2011 12:23:10
if u want to beat a drake easy, neut it! Put 4 neuts on it and cya!

if you are having probs against a drake fleets then look in youtube for "Eve Online - The Initiative. Firewall"
Game Over!

PS: a myrmidon shield tanked can tank almost as good as a drake.


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