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Ardarn
Posted - 2011.09.02 04:52:00 - [1]
 

Been thinking and i'm a bit confused. If you don't one shot your target, isn't DPS always better? Makes sense logically. Like if you're using an artycane, you'd only use it if you think you can control range or one shot them, right?Neutral

Sevra Argentkin
Posted - 2011.09.02 05:07:00 - [2]
 

In long term for destroying them, probably. But imo it's just that a single shot that takes away a great portion of their hitpoints tends to be more scary and harder to come against than lots of smaller hits.

Aineko Macx
Posted - 2011.09.02 05:16:00 - [3]
 

Alpha also has the advantage in the following situations:
- In very laggy environments (read: fights with 500+ pilots), the rate of fire of all guns goes down, which penalizes high ROF guns much more than the already slow cycling arties and such.
- When trying to instapop ships that would otherwise be remote repped. By focusing fire and synchronizing the firing of all ships in the fleet on a single target, it is possible to kill it instantly, before any reps can reach it (assuming the fleet has the numbers and discipline).

ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
Posted - 2011.09.02 05:55:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: Ardarn
Been thinking and i'm a bit confused. If you don't one shot your target, isn't DPS always better? Makes sense logically. Like if you're using an artycane, you'd only use it if you think you can control range or one shot them, right?Neutral


Put it this way:

DPS = averaged damage output per second
Alpha = damage per volley

If you are in a slugout, then "DPS" is king. If you are just warping in at range and intend on only taking a shot or two before bugging out or dying, then you want high "alpha."

Alpha is also handy when dealing with logisics ships. Get enough people with high alpha to fire on a single target at the same time and the logi ship won't be able to save it (or will have a hell of a time repairing it)

foksieloy
Minmatar
Rockets ponies and rainbows
Posted - 2011.09.02 06:13:00 - [5]
 

Point is, higher alpha usually has higher non theoretical dps.

Imagine this scenario:

You do 900 damage a volley, every 10 seconds. 90 dps.
Your enemy does 100 damage every 1 second. 100 dps.
You both have 1799 ehp.

First second: you did 900 damage, he did 100.
Fifth second: you did 900 damage, he did 500.
Tenth second: you did 1800 damage, he did 1000. He is dead.

He did have higher paper DPS, but you had higher real dps, because he didn't have time to put his alpha to use.

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2011.09.02 07:04:00 - [6]
 

It's also worth considering situation where you only have a short amount of time to shoot your target. Eg: camping a gate/station - you may well only get one shot off, and in that scenario alpha is all that counts.

Another scenario is in very large fights where there is serious lag. In these situations, the nominal RoF of your turrets is meaningless. You get to shoot when the server decides it's your turn. Obviously you want your shots to count for as much as possible. This is why people put artillery on ships with no bonuses (eg: arty-abaddons).

Gallion
Amarr
Posted - 2011.09.02 08:00:00 - [7]
 

DPS vs Alpha is a long said question that it really come down to what your Target is.
Vs players it is more commonly recommended to use Alpha
- I cant say much on this, as I use DPS more often in these Situations(my perspective may not suite you or any others).

Vs NPC it can be just as Effective with Either Alpha or DPS
-though I think some would agree that Using DPS with Missiles(Drake) Is often a smarter choice specially fighting target of the Missile to Target Resistance types being used (Kinetic Missile vs Kinetic Resistant ships)

Sindeya Shimaya
Posted - 2011.09.02 11:17:00 - [8]
 

Alpha has some side-effects many people tend to ignore:

Imagine an active tanked ship, using alpha strikes you can slowly (or even quickly) chew through his armor/hull - even though theoretically he can tank your DPS. Furthermore - and this is something EFT Warriors will never understand - alphas can break passive tanks because they can break the peak recharge point, where continuous DPS cannot sometimes.

It's the same with cap stability - there are certain fits that EFT or EveHQ (or even Eve) say are cap stable, but are in fact not if you time your active modules wrong, because a single "volley" of cap usage can put your cap beneath peak - and bam the cap is dry.

Ardarn
Posted - 2011.09.02 13:35:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: foksieloy
Point is, higher alpha usually has higher non theoretical dps.

Imagine this scenario:

You do 900 damage a volley, every 10 seconds. 90 dps.
Your enemy does 100 damage every 1 second. 100 dps.
You both have 1799 ehp.

First second: you did 900 damage, he did 100.
Fifth second: you did 900 damage, he did 500.
Tenth second: you did 1800 damage, he did 1000. He is dead.

He did have higher paper DPS, but you had higher real dps, because he didn't have time to put his alpha to use.


This is what i'm talking about. That makes more sense now, but its still kind of tricky to wrap your head around.

Thanks guys

Drykor
Minmatar
Aperture Harmonics
K162
Posted - 2011.09.02 13:53:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Ardarn
Originally by: foksieloy
Point is, higher alpha usually has higher non theoretical dps.

Imagine this scenario:

You do 900 damage a volley, every 10 seconds. 90 dps.
Your enemy does 100 damage every 1 second. 100 dps.
You both have 1799 ehp.

First second: you did 900 damage, he did 100.
Fifth second: you did 900 damage, he did 500.
Tenth second: you did 1800 damage, he did 1000. He is dead.

He did have higher paper DPS, but you had higher real dps, because he didn't have time to put his alpha to use.


This is what i'm talking about. That makes more sense now, but its still kind of tricky to wrap your head around.

Thanks guys


Yeah this was the most correct reply. At which point (higher) DPS actually overcomes (higher) Alpha cannot be said easily and will depend on the actual damage per volley and rate of fire of both ships.

Of course alpha also means the 'big' guns which may mean you don't always hit (as well) on the first shot while webs are still kicking in. This almost instantly means your alpha ship will do worse than a dps fit, so getting that first hit in is really important.


 

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