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Anything bigger than a BC is just boring as hell to fly.

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Author	Topic
Khira Kitamatsu	Posted - 2011.09.02 04:49:00 - [1] One thing I have learned from playing this game is that fleet warfare is boring and what is even worse is flying a BS or bigger. Anything bigger than say a battle cruiser are without a doubt the most boring ships in EVE. Smaller ship combat in small gang encounters is where it is at. More exciting and by far more challenging. I really wish we had more choices for smaller ships. Make them more modular. Give us more choices for rigging and outfitting them. God what I wouldn't give for a t3 destroyer. ^_^ Anyone else feel this way?
Mfume Apocal Minmatar Origin. Black Legion.	Posted - 2011.09.02 04:56:00 - [2] Originally by: Khira Kitamatsu One thing I have learned from playing this game is that fleet warfare is boring and what is even worse is flying a BS or bigger. Anything bigger than say a battle cruiser are without a doubt the most boring ships in EVE. Smaller ship combat in small gang encounters is where it is at. More exciting and by far more challenging. I really wish we had more choices for smaller ships. Make them more modular. Give us more choices for rigging and outfitting them. God what I wouldn't give for a t3 destroyer. ^_^ Anyone else feel this way? "Well... like... that's just your opinion, man."
Headerman Minmatar Quovis Shadow of xXDEATHXx	Posted - 2011.09.02 06:40:00 - [3] Originally by: Khira Kitamatsu One thing I have learned from playing this game is that solo or small gang warfare is boring and what is even worse is flying a BC or smaller. Anything smaller than say a battle ship are without a doubt the most boring ships in EVE. Big ship combat in big fleet encounters is where it is at. More exciting and by far more challenging. I really wish we had more choices for bigger ships. Make them more modular. Give us more choices for rigging and outfitting them. God what I wouldn't give for a t3 Super Carrier. ^_^ Anyone else feel this way? Your words are pretty modular.
Malcanis Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2011.09.02 07:58:00 - [4] Originally by: Khira Kitamatsu I really wish we had more choices for smaller ships. So there are 12 BS, 4 T2 BS, 8 capitals + Rorqual, and 8 supercaps. 33 ships in total Every other ship class is "BC or smaller"; 12 Frigates, 8 Interceptors, 8 AFs, 4 Covops, 4 Bombers, 4 EAFs, 4 Destroyers, 4 Interdictors, 12 Cruisers, 8 HACs, 8 Recons, 4 Logis, 4 HICs, 4 T3s (with multiple viable modular configs), 8 Battlecruisers, 8 Command Ships, plus a bunch of Industrials etc which can be used for niche PvP roles (eg: Battle Badgers). 104 ships in total, plus the indy ships, and not counting the various T3 configs. Not that I'm disagreeing that sub-BS classes are more fun to fly, but really you can't complain that we're not given enough choice in this respect. Can you fly all sub-BS ships? Have you flown them?
Mfume Apocal Minmatar Origin. Black Legion.	Posted - 2011.09.02 08:12:00 - [5] Edited by: Mfume Apocal on 02/09/2011 08:15:22 Edited by: Mfume Apocal on 02/09/2011 08:13:32 Edited by: Mfume Apocal on 02/09/2011 08:12:16 There are actually 8 T2 BS. If you were talking about T2 BS worth flying in PvP, that number would be somewhere between 0 and 1. And I agree, compared to the Holy Trinity of HACs, Logis and Recons, BSes as a class are far less interesting.
Caleidascope Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2011.09.02 08:15:00 - [6] The other name for bc is Pocket Battleship.
Malcanis Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2011.09.02 08:46:00 - [7] Originally by: Mfume Apocal Edited by: Mfume Apocal on 02/09/2011 08:15:22 Edited by: Mfume Apocal on 02/09/2011 08:13:32 Edited by: Mfume Apocal on 02/09/2011 08:12:16 There are actually 8 T2 BS. If you were talking about T2 BS worth flying in PvP, that number would be somewhere between 0 and 1. And I agree, compared to the Holy Trinity of HACs, Logis and Recons, BSes as a class are far less interesting. Mea culpa: I forgot about Marauders. They probably get used in PvP less than Badgers though
Headerman Minmatar Quovis Shadow of xXDEATHXx	Posted - 2011.09.02 09:52:00 - [8] Sorry Malcanis but... 24 frigates 4 EAFs 8 AFs 8 Interceptors 4 Cov ops 4 bombers 4 destroyers 4 interdictors 4 navy frigates 5 pirate faction frigates 3 special frigates 16 cruisers 8 navy faction cruisers 5 pirate faction cruisers 8 heavy assault ships 4 logistical ships 8 recons 4 Heavy interdictors 4 special cruisers 4 strategic cruisers 8 BCs 8 command ships 6 mining ships 14 industrials 8 transports at least 4 shuttles 4 noob ships 1 pod Thats 186 sub BS ships to choose from. stop trolling OP
Malcanis Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2011.09.02 10:11:00 - [9] I fail :(
ChromeStriker	Posted - 2011.09.02 10:24:00 - [10] Just Nano your BS's. might not be able to go 1 on 1 with another conventional BS but when you move as fast as a BC with double the hit points, heavy neuts, and moar dps... can be fun tymes
Sidus Isaacs Gallente	Posted - 2011.09.02 12:21:00 - [11] Originally by: ChromeStriker Just Nano your BS's. might not be able to go 1 on 1 with another conventional BS but when you move as fast as a BC with double the hit points, heavy neuts, and moar dps... can be fun tymes Indeed. Tempest is EVE's biggest BC.
Pinky Denmark The Cursed Navy Important Internet Spaceship League	Posted - 2011.09.02 13:03:00 - [12] Dominix and Typhoon are not that much worse than battlecruisers and have some very clear advantages like heavy neuts and huge drone bays... Pinky
Marcus Killjoy	Posted - 2011.09.02 13:07:00 - [13] Originally by: Sidus Isaacs Originally by: ChromeStriker Just Nano your BS's. might not be able to go 1 on 1 with another conventional BS but when you move as fast as a BC with double the hit points, heavy neuts, and moar dps... can be fun tymes Indeed. Tempest is EVE's biggest BC. And are a blast to fly. Also, try an armor Raven (torps, and skip trying to kill HACS, look for BC's)... youll kill small gangs and they will laugh in local as your shields melt, then cry when they stop there. Good Times!!
Arabelli Tanis	Posted - 2011.09.02 13:24:00 - [14] Size Matters.
arbalesttom Mercurialis Inc. RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2011.09.02 14:18:00 - [15] imho, the machariel counts as a frigate too!
Mendolus Aurelius Federation	Posted - 2011.09.02 14:26:00 - [16] Originally by: arbalesttom imho, the machariel counts as a frigate too! Otherwise known as King Frigate, a frigate's frigate, first among frigates! Ok I'm done,
Tippia Caldari Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2011.09.02 15:35:00 - [17] …or put another way: have a look at which ship classes require you to train Battleship, and how many do not. Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.
Cipher Jones Minmatar	Posted - 2011.09.02 16:07:00 - [18] Some ships in every class I have tried are fun; BS included. To each their own.
Mendolus Aurelius Federation	Posted - 2011.09.02 16:24:00 - [19] Edited by: Mendolus on 02/09/2011 16:24:38 Originally by: Tippia …or put another way: have a look at which ship classes require you to train Battleship, and how many do not. Please visit your user settings to re-enable images. Decisive, answer is decisive, I have not seen this chart in awhile, it's good to see someone can link it when it is in context, cuz I like the theory behind it. I love flowcharts for stuff like this, although if you play long enough it of course begins to dawn on you that not a whole lot requires battleship skills, and a plethora of other stuff does. Being that cruisers and battlecruisers generally share the same size weaponry, you already have a wide swath of ships that need like weaponry training, in principle. And of course, they all require some sort of armor or shield skills, core skills, etc. Battleships will likely always be more of a plunge into a whole new area and theory of ships for the game as a demarcation point between lesser and greater combat mechanics, insofar as frigate hulls obviously have more immediate navigation options available to them on an actual grid itself, compared to say a dreadnought. In fact, I specifically train my accounts based on whether they are cruiser or smaller, battlecruiser (because of fleet support related skills), and battleship or larger. I have a command ship, fleet support, ewar, scout, and logistics pilot. I have a jump freighter, turret battleship, rorqual, and barge pilot. I have a cruiser hull, future Minmatar pilot, for the ubiquitous Vagabond/Cynabal/(..and now Loki) style gang warfare, the first ship of which has been popular for a very long time. I have a carrier, supercarrier, dreadnought, and potential titan pilot that has Calibration V, Fighters V, Carrier V (Soon), and etc. There are of course overlaps in skills no matter what with four characters all devoted to PvE/PvP, but some of the latter stuff will take six months to a year just to knock out when you finally get to that plateau, so you had better prepare well ahead of time for that day to come, or you will find yourself with a single pilot who could potentially train any number of directions, but every direction you choose takes half a year, (i.e. Warfare Specialist V, Wing Command V alone can take two months). @OP SO if battleships or anything are boring to you, by account of the nice flowchart Tippia linked, you can obviously choose to simply train everything else instead, as the ships that require the battleship skill are likely to not entertain you anymore themselves. The neat thing is racial cross training once you get both shields, armor, and multiple weaponry or electronics system skills... then you look at T2 ship requirements, and it dawns on you that all you theoretically need to fly 7 more cruiser hulls is Racial Cruiser V for different race than you already have.
Jak Silverheart Minmatar	Posted - 2011.09.02 18:45:00 - [20] BC's were too slow for me, and at the time Tengu's did not exist so I trained for the Nighthawk to run lv4's which is what I fly now. But I will say the funnest ship I have flown in all these years of playing this game is the Rifter there is nothing that came remotely close to it.
Guillame Herschel Gallente NME1	Posted - 2011.09.02 20:37:00 - [21] Originally by: Pinky Denmark Dominix and Typhoon are not that much worse than battlecruisers and have some very clear advantages like heavy neuts and huge drone bays... Panther and Sin have better agility than many cruiser hulls. Panther can outrun any battlecruiser without gimping a thing.
Ava Starfire Minmatar Teraa Matar	Posted - 2011.09.03 11:00:00 - [22] Step 1. Purchase Tempest Fleet Issue Step 2. Plug in a set of Snakes. LG good, HG better. Step 3. Dual nanos. Step 4. Laugh as you run circles around BCs and many cruisers, and lolyourcapdied neut anything that gets inside 30k (TS Neuts ftw) Even a standard Nanopest is great fun, and the Mach is just insane for speed and manuverability in a BS. I prefer small ships, but gotta say, these are a blast.
Hirana Yoshida Behavioral Affront	Posted - 2011.09.03 13:21:00 - [23] All this talk of Nano-phoon this and nano-pest that is actually proving the validity of the original statement: BS and up are boring to fly. They have their uses obviously, when you need enough buffer to survive more than one volley in a blob environment, but beyond that the BS class really has nothing going for it. Now if only CCP would get around to nixing tiers so the fun could be coupled with efficiency for all hulls instead of just the handful.
Lvl 80 Paladin	Posted - 2011.09.03 14:14:00 - [24] it seems OP is too poor to fly a machariel .
Zenith Intaki Gallente Federal Defence Union	Posted - 2011.09.03 15:17:00 - [25] Originally by: Caleidascope The other name for bc is Pocket Battleship. Seriously... EVE has nothing to do with 1940s naval doctrines...
Barbelo Valentinian Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2011.09.03 22:58:00 - [26] I've often thought this. In an ideal spaceships game (of my dreams), ships of sizes from fighters (equivalent of classic "space fighters" like in BSG) to frigates would be the only things that a single pilot could fly (and that would be manually - fighters in fps/cockpit style, frigates more like a cross between EVE and STO ship-to-ship). Anything above that would be a big ship with a collaborative effort between several players on the same ship. One piloting, one doing gunnery, one doing sensors, etc., etc. That would leave "exciting" twitch-based flying to the smaller ships where it's actually fun, and keep the flying of big ships as a more cerebral, co-operative experience.
Malcanis Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2011.09.03 23:36:00 - [27] Originally by: Barbelo Valentinian I've often thought this. In an ideal spaceships game (of my dreams), ships of sizes from fighters (equivalent of classic "space fighters" like in BSG) to frigates would be the only things that a single pilot could fly (and that would be manually - fighters in fps/cockpit style, frigates more like a cross between EVE and STO ship-to-ship). Anything above that would be a big ship with a collaborative effort between several players on the same ship. One piloting, one doing gunnery, one doing sensors, etc., etc. That would leave "exciting" twitch-based flying to the smaller ships where it's actually fun, and keep the flying of big ships as a more cerebral, co-operative experience. Given that the Rifter is approximately the size of a 747, and a Megathron is the size of a small city, and there are sovereign states smaller than Titans... yeah that's where we are.
ChromeStriker	Posted - 2011.09.05 08:48:00 - [28] Edited by: ChromeStriker on 05/09/2011 08:51:20 Originally by: Hirana Yoshida All this talk of Nano-phoon this and nano-pest that is actually proving the validity of the original statement: BS and up are boring to fly. .... err huh? isnt that dis-proving the orgional statement? by nano'ing certain battle ships (dont forget the domi, raven, and... no im not even going to suggest an amarr BS) you effectivly make them big BC's and in the case of some, very big cruisers. all with some crazy ass stats. so to summerize you dont like BS's because theyre slow lumbering brutes that are only suitable for big fleet fights? but then wont listen when people tell you that actually this isnt true and theres a way of making them Fast(TM), solo beast machines that can f**k up almost anything... except theyre origional counterparts
Ineka Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2011.09.05 11:24:00 - [29] @Op Try nano phoon with heavy neuts, autos and oc drones. From frig to bc there's a lot to say and oc the phoon will die to something but I'm very sure the fun you can get out of it is worthy for every single isk you've putted on top of bc's price. Skill intensive yes but so fun.
s0lar pulse	Posted - 2011.09.05 17:43:00 - [30] Edited by: s0lar pulse on 05/09/2011 17:44:56 Originally by: Hirana Yoshida All this talk of Nano-phoon this and nano-pest that is actually proving the validity of the original statement: BS and up are boring to fly. They have their uses obviously, when you need enough buffer to survive more than one volley in a blob environment, but beyond that the BS class really has nothing going for it. Now if only CCP would get around to nixing tiers so the fun could be coupled with efficiency for all hulls instead of just the handful. Naw! It really helps as a solo pvp'er to be able to fly battleships. Helps when engagements scale well out of the ability of a battle-cruiser or command ship to handle. However, you could make the argument that the Tengu would be alot better in those heavily scaled scenarios. Battleship pvp is not cheap however, which is the major issue for me. I only use these battleships for solo pvp. Atleast before I took my little pvp break a week ago. The other battleships aren't worth it, in my opinion. Maybe with 2 exceptions... [Dominix, Dominion] Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Armor Explosive Hardener II Large Armor Repairer II Large Armor Repairer II Large Armor Repairer II Damage Control II Medium Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 25 Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 800 100MN MicroWarpdrive II Warp Scrambler II Stasis Webifier II 425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M 425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M 425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M 425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M 425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M 425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M Large Auxiliary Nano Pump I Large Auxiliary Nano Pump I Large Auxiliary Nano Pump I Ogre II x5 Berserker II x5 [Dominix, Dominance] Armor Explosive Hardener II Armor Thermic Hardener II Armor Kinetic Hardener II Large Armor Repairer II Large Armor Repairer II Armor EM Hardener II Damage Control II Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 25 Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 25 100MN MicroWarpdrive II Warp Scrambler II Stasis Webifier II 425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M 425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M 425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M 425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M 425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M 425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M Large Anti-Explosive Pump I Large Auxiliary Nano Pump I Large Nanobot Accelerator I Ogre II x5 Berserker II x5 [Tempest, Storm] Gyrostabilizer II Damage Control II Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II Nanofiber Internal Structure II Nanofiber Internal Structure II Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 25 100MN MicroWarpdrive II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Warp Disruptor II Large Proton Smartbomb II Heavy Energy Neutralizer II 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L Large Core Defence Field Extender I Large Core Defence Field Extender I Large Core Defence Field Extender I Warrior II x5 Hammerhead II x5 [Tempest, Tumult] Armor Explosive Hardener II Armor Thermic Hardener II Armor Kinetic Hardener II Large Armor Repairer II Large Armor Repairer II Damage Control II Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 25 Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 25 100MN MicroWarpdrive I Warp Disruptor II Stasis Webifier II [empty high slot] Heavy Energy Neutralizer I Dual 425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L Dual 425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L Dual 425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L Dual 425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L Dual 425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L Dual 425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L Large Auxiliary Nano Pump I Large Auxiliary Nano Pump I Large Auxiliary Nano Pump I Warrior II x5 -proxyyy

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