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blankseplocked Amarr ships energy capacitor use bonus. (Ship Balancing)
 
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2ofSpades
Posted - 2011.09.02 02:56:00 - [1]
 

Hello,
I used to be skilled only to fly amarr ships. Now that I have played this game for a bit I can see how underpowered most amarr ships are. Any newer low skill player will get their hat handed to them flying a laser amarr ship when engaging the other races ships. The main problem is the useless energy turret capacitor use bonus. Why does it take a bonus just to run a weapon that in damage terms is equal or less to the damage of the rest of the races. Take for example the harbinger, armor plate fit it has the same or less dps then all the other battlecruisers and its ehp is also less. The prophecy's only moment to shine is on thanksgiving day in a turkey tribute lol fleet. Other then that these two ships are fairly useless.
I think nerfing the other ships is the wrong way to go but instead take out the useless bonus and replace it with something useful. Once again the harb with a 10% armor hp and 5% dmg bonus per a level. Now I see ehp equal to the drake and a ship that can still run cap stable. Pretty much any amarr ship with the energy capacitor use bonus is useless besides the apoc. So maybe when amarr was first made lasers had more dps or something but that is not the case now. Dont balance ships by nerfing do it by beefing.

William Cooly
Sol Enterprises
Posted - 2011.09.02 02:59:00 - [2]
 

The part where you went wrong is when you called Amarr underpowered.

2ofSpades
Posted - 2011.09.02 03:13:00 - [3]
 

Ok maybe 50%+ armor on the harb is a little too much. Remember though armor doesnt recharge and the lower sig you get also doesnt help much. Maybe a 7.5% armor bonus?

Nicolo da'Vicenza
Amarr
Divine Power.
Atlas.
Posted - 2011.09.02 05:59:00 - [4]
 

Edited by: Nicolo da''Vicenza on 02/09/2011 06:02:13
those ships are what you train projectiles for

ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
Posted - 2011.09.02 06:03:00 - [5]
 

You first complain about a "useless" bonus on many Amarr ships and then complain that they have capacitor issues. Maybe the two are related in some way?

Not supported. Amarr ships can already field some of the biggest armor tanks in their respective classes. I don't see the need to change that.

Gallion
Amarr
Posted - 2011.09.02 10:06:00 - [6]
 

Edited by: Gallion on 02/09/2011 10:07:03
The Energy weapons the Amarr use have a pretty big cap demand and their are a few of the amarr ships have bonus to cap of the sort. I'd Rather See a bonus to something else as well. Tho the fact the energy turret wpns already get a huge Advantage over the other wpns (crystal charges can be changed fast and the T1 dont break).
Alot (maybe 60-70%?) of the T2 Ships in the Amarr dont have the reduction usage bonus. Not sure how important Cap is in PVP to keep over 2 mins anyway so the reduction bonus is rather useless in that respect. So I really see 2ofSpades' argument. But I couldnt say what changes should be made from the bonus.

Sphit Ker
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2011.09.02 12:03:00 - [7]
 

I don't think the cap bonus is useless at all. Just try an Abaddon or fit lasers to anything not Amarr. I also think it's not a fair "bonus" to have. I mean, it should be tied to the relevant spaceship command or weaponry skill, not the ship itself.

Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
Posted - 2011.09.02 12:57:00 - [8]
 

Blame the ******edness of CCP in the early days. They made lasers so OP that they had to ensure that they were never used on off-race hulls by slapping a massive cap drain on them and then finding that they needed to burn a bonus on the racial hulls to even use them.

All that idiocy instead of merely toning the weapons down a notch ..

Sad thing is that a lot of the Amarr boats actually work really well with hybrids/projectiles but the number of non-Amarr boats that work well lasers can be counted on one saw-mill workers hand (hint: less than five).

Abbadonification (+damage bonus, -cap bonus) of all the +resist hulls!

Pinky Denmark
The Cursed Navy
Important Internet Spaceship League
Posted - 2011.09.02 13:01:00 - [9]
 

I ♥ Lazors... Crusaders, Omens, Zealots, harbingers, Armageddons, Abaddons and other ships are awesome. I haven't considered balance and bonus much lately but those ships rocks as they are and don't need a buff really.

Pinky

Jaketh Ivanes
Amarr
House of El
Posted - 2011.09.02 13:08:00 - [10]
 

The reason Amarr ships have cap reduction, is to make lasers viable on them.
Each race have bonuses that their respective weapons need to function adequately. Minmatarr have a lot of damage and rof bonuses, because projectile weapons used to be less good. Gallente have a lot of tracking bonus, so their rails and blasters and hit.
This diversity should remain in the game, in my opinion, so keep the "useless" bonus please. It makes it logical to have projectile on projectile bonused ships and not use them on non-bonused ships.
I remember the first time I got podded, it was from a Tach Raven. Back then, Tachs we very good on Ravens but it didn't really make sense in my mind.
We are unfortunately back in that state, but this time it's projectile weapons which is used everywhere.
I don't think we will get into a state where guns are only usefull on the appropiate ships but it should be close to it.

tl;dr - Keep the bonus, helps with diversity.

Pinky Denmark
The Cursed Navy
Important Internet Spaceship League
Posted - 2011.09.02 13:23:00 - [11]
 

Everybody loves high dps weaponry that doesn't use capacitor and are easy to fit. Which is why autocannons are very popular... But it's not exactly the biggest problem in Eve atm.

Pinky

Thorian Baalnorn
Posted - 2011.09.02 15:42:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: 2ofSpades
Hello,
I used to be skilled only to fly amarr ships. Now that I have played this game for a bit I can see how underpowered most amarr ships are. Any newer low skill player will get their hat handed to them flying a laser amarr ship when engaging the other races ships. The main problem is the useless energy turret capacitor use bonus. Why does it take a bonus just to run a weapon that in damage terms is equal or less to the damage of the rest of the races. Take for example the harbinger, armor plate fit it has the same or less dps then all the other battlecruisers and its ehp is also less. The prophecy's only moment to shine is on thanksgiving day in a turkey tribute lol fleet. Other then that these two ships are fairly useless.
I think nerfing the other ships is the wrong way to go but instead take out the useless bonus and replace it with something useful. Once again the harb with a 10% armor hp and 5% dmg bonus per a level. Now I see ehp equal to the drake and a ship that can still run cap stable. Pretty much any amarr ship with the energy capacitor use bonus is useless besides the apoc. So maybe when amarr was first made lasers had more dps or something but that is not the case now. Dont balance ships by nerfing do it by beefing.


Amarr are fine. Like all races they require.....a certain finesse to fly.I started caldari and moved to amarr. I can fly anything up to a BS( and have BS V). Amarr put out the best DPS at range. They can also fit a brute armor tank. My baddon can pump out nearly 900 DPS at 50 KM and still fit a 90k -110k omni buffer tank. And the same ship will put out nearly 1100 dps at 17km optimal.


2ofSpades
Posted - 2011.09.04 02:02:00 - [13]
 

Edited by: 2ofSpades on 04/09/2011 02:06:26
Edited by: 2ofSpades on 04/09/2011 02:03:00
The abbadon has two good bonuses, not the normal 10% capacitor use excuse for a bonus. Without that bonus I can run a cap stable fit on a harb with lasers fit. They wouldnt have to adjust cap use on lasers much at all to balance it out.
Drop the crappy bonus. And yes lasers are very op due to scorch, but they are not that op that they need a bonus to run them. I could see maybe if lasers were 1.5 times as powerful, then they would be good enough to need a bonus to run.

Xirin
Posted - 2011.09.04 02:31:00 - [14]
 

For God's sake there is nothing wrong with Amarr lasers! You can't overpower a weapon that A) is restricted to only 2 damage tyeps (the ones everyone tanks against) and B) only works on the slowest ships in the game. Because of A) they have to be high-damage to compensate. Because of B) they need to have long range and still do decent dps.

Here's a hint you mini and caldari pilots might have forgot: If an amarr ship runs out of cap, it can't fire. That cap bonus increases the time it can fight. Imagine going into battle in a drake or cane that had no cargobay; the only ammo you could ever fire was what you already loaded in your guns (for the sake of comparison, it "recharges" rather slowly. Now imagine you had a bonus which doubled that amount of ammo. Now imagine someone on the forums was suggesting they remove that bonus. Also, imagine there existed modules which when activated on your ship sucked your remaining ammo out of your magazines before you could fire it...

So please, leave Amarr alone. Confused Go buff Gallente (ab/mwd speed, web range/strength, blaster range, railgun tracking...something!)

Laechyd Eldgorn
Caldari
draketrain
Posted - 2011.09.04 10:59:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Pinky Denmark
Everybody loves high dps weaponry that doesn't use capacitor and are easy to fit. Which is why autocannons are very popular... But it's not exactly the biggest problem in Eve atm.

Pinky


this is why i trained all my accounts minmatar. are you sure?

Mekhana
Gallente
Spiritus Draconis
Posted - 2011.09.04 18:39:00 - [16]
 

I'll trade Gallente for Amarr.

Want it?

Duchess Starbuckington
Posted - 2011.09.04 18:54:00 - [17]
 

Quote:
They made lasers so OP

The only turret that can realistically be called OP are projectiles. Lasers have plenty of drawbacks to balance out their benefits.

Quote:
Now that I have played this game for a bit I can see how underpowered most amarr ships are

By "a bit" you mean about 10 minutes? Only a clueless newbie could honestly believe Amarr are underpowered. Try training your skills past 2 maybe?
The only real weakness in the Amarr lineup is the T1 cruisers, and there at least the Arbitrator is good.

Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
Posted - 2011.09.04 19:08:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Duchess Starbuckington
The only turret that can realistically be called OP are projectiles. Lasers have plenty of drawbacks to balance out their benefits.

Past tense. The "bonus" was applied very early on, pretty sure it wasn't there in Beta but I got lost for a couple of years in "the MMO that must not be named" so can't say when exactly it was done.
Originally by: Duchess Starbuckington
...The only real weakness in the Amarr lineup is the T1 cruisers, and there at least the Arbitrator is good.

Just because the Arbi is adequate does not make it good. In this age of multiple TE's you pretty much require 2-3 TD's per target to make a dent and then you get to play around with your faction frigate level damage output ..
It is only "good" as support hull for a gang of 3-4 or more, below that one is better off dumping more dps/ehp onto the field.
Also don't really have a T1 frigate worth anything, Punisher is again "adequate", but suffers from midslot deficiency .. upside is that it works well with just about any weapon system that it can fit so lots of rabbits in that hat.

In short: Amarr is sub-par until T2, BS do stand out in fleet/L.Gang scenarios however.

Kraschyn Thek'athor
Posted - 2011.09.05 02:11:00 - [19]
 

I would like to see the Abaddon-Boniset on the Punisher/Maller/Prophecy.
The combination of laser-cap + resistance is rather annoying.
The Abaddon demands decisions to balance tank, firepower and cap usage.
This would make a logical boni chain as often seen with the other races.
Merlin -> Moa -> Ferrox -> Rokh
Vexor -> Myrmidion -> Dominix

And maybe some Dev could explain the Sacriledge. ^^
Beyond carebearing against Guristas. ^^

iKill Giants
Eternal Phoenix Rises
Posted - 2011.09.05 05:50:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Kraschyn Thek'athor
And maybe some Dev could explain the Sacriledge. ^^
Beyond carebearing against Guristas. ^^



Sacrilege is part of the Khanid lineup of Vengeance, Heretic, Sacrilege, Damnation. It adds some spice to the already varied Amarr lineup. Don't see what needs explaining, really.


 

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