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Iggy Stooge
Gallente
Federal Navy Academy
Posted - 2011.09.02 12:54:00 - [31]
 

Originally by: N'oah
Eve was more fun when you logged in, saw 3000 people online and thought, oh, almost new record.


Naturally, it's more exciting to play a new game that's growing, than an old one in decline. Personally, I feel Eve will drop to around 12k-15k, then pfft, the lights go out.

Sullen Skoung
Posted - 2011.09.02 12:56:00 - [32]
 

Originally by: Tirane Merkator

why can't you people just ignore it and let the barbielovers have their thing?


Would you feel the same way is CCP removed your ability to turn it off?
They are going to you know

Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
Amarr
Posted - 2011.09.02 12:56:00 - [33]
 

Originally by: Shadowsword
There's always less activity in summer, but there's no question that Eve's Growth rate has been slowing down to almost nothing for two years or a bit more.

Rueurning from a two years pause, I am dispapoointed that when I go pvp, the only diffrence I see in ship types is less megathrons and more tengus. That when I pve on my high-sec alt, there's not a single mission I haven't already done countless times long before.

Eve stopped growing when CCP stopped expanding on the "highway" that most everyone use, and instead created lateral small roads (Faction warfaire, incursions, wormholes, PI) that only a small fraction of the playerbase really use.


It's a rule in any MMO. If you don't include new content on a regular basis, you're bound to know stagnation, then regression.


Well they DO add new content, yet broken content.

Meanwhile, our beloved CSM which so much represents us, is very busy tackling on the critical issue of ABC minerals being found at wormholes and detracting 3% of nullsec's business with them.

Shadowsword
The Rough Riders
Ares Protectiva
Posted - 2011.09.02 13:11:00 - [34]
 

Originally by: Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
Meanwhile, our beloved CSM which so much represents us, is very busy tackling on the critical issue of ABC minerals being found at wormholes and detracting 3% of nullsec's business with them.


I don't care much about ABC minerals in wormholes either way, yet you are probably badly informed if you think this was negligible. CCP Greyscale showed some stats, and ABC in wormhole account for about 24% or the total ABC mined. This is a lot more than T3 production need, and a serious blow to 0.0 mining. Less than 3% of nullsec's business? Given the way supply vs demand work in a exponential way, rather than linear, you could probably count of ABC prices to increase by 30 to 35% if ABC supply is cut.

Voivod Rhahk'an Anstian
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.09.02 13:19:00 - [35]
 

What did you guys expect, that EVE will last forever?

Not-Apsalar
Posted - 2011.09.02 13:23:00 - [36]
 

It's Summer time. People go outside and do things in Summer time. Screw sitting in front of the computer for 4 hours, I'm going to the beach.

Sullen Skoung
Posted - 2011.09.02 13:51:00 - [37]
 

Originally by: Not-Apsalar
It's Summer time. People go outside and do things in Summer time. Screw sitting in front of the computer for 4 hours, I'm going to the beach.


Lies. Theres no such thing as outside

and I call BS on your claims that there are beaches in this outside

Ciar Meara
Amarr
Virtus Vindice
Posted - 2011.09.02 14:03:00 - [38]
 

You guys do realise that before "the lights go out" it will become free to play first.

And AURUM shall be your constant compagnion.

Simetraz
Posted - 2011.09.02 14:44:00 - [39]
 

Originally by: Soma Khan
this should answer some of your questions


Yes it does.
Lets see PLEX was released Nov 2008 and then CCP sees the largest population increase.
So what we have is a bunch of alts and people who don't actually pay for the game.

SO a more interesting question is how many of the paying costumers does CCP have left and has that increased.

CCP made one mistake by implementing Plex.
They should have tied them to a paying account.
So create an alt account and pay for it with Plex but they should have never let you pay for all your accounts with Plex.


Skex Relbore
Gallente
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
Posted - 2011.09.02 14:47:00 - [40]
 

Originally by: Shadowsword
Originally by: Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
Meanwhile, our beloved CSM which so much represents us, is very busy tackling on the critical issue of ABC minerals being found at wormholes and detracting 3% of nullsec's business with them.


I don't care much about ABC minerals in wormholes either way, yet you are probably badly informed if you think this was negligible. CCP Greyscale showed some stats, and ABC in wormhole account for about 24% or the total ABC mined. This is a lot more than T3 production need, and a serious blow to 0.0 mining. Less than 3% of nullsec's business? Given the way supply vs demand work in a exponential way, rather than linear, you could probably count of ABC prices to increase by 30 to 35% if ABC supply is cut.


So what? OMG people living out of POS's and dealing with all the logistical issues of WH's can make a little extra isk by selling high ends?

Seems like a working as intended to me particularly since the rational behind those high ends not being present in high sec is that they've long since been mined out in those civilized places.

If they really wanted to help out null sec miners they'd start by doing away with Drone Poo and switching them back to bounties. Seems perfectly logical that there would be bounties on them since rogue drones are a pest and a danger to every living thing.

Get rid of that and then remove the Meta 0 module drops from rats. There is no reason for it no one uses them so 99% of them get refined into minerals, get rid of all that T1 meta loot that just gets melted down and you'll solve most of the oversupply problem.

Adding bounties to Drones and boosting bounties on mission rats to make up for the lost earnings while removing that massive mineral faucet will accomplish two things. One it will reduce the amount of incidental minerals entering the economy shifting that activity to people focused on harvesting that resource rather than those who just happen to get it in the process of doing their day job, and two it will increase the isk flow into the economy making people feel more confident in their ability to recover from loss encouraging less risk adverse behavior.

Less risk adverse behavior means more ship destruction which means more demand for minerals which means higher prices which consumers will be able to afford because they have a higher income.

Every body wins.

The other thing that has to be done is beef up the ****ing exhumer's already it is rediculous that these ships are so fragile. Have you ever looked at an actual piece of industrial machinery? Go out to a construction site and check out a bulldozer sometime. Boost their grid and CPU already so they can actually fit cruiser sized modules and you'll see more people mining in low and null.

Either that or they need to be more nimble and able to run when threatened. Increase their agility significantly they don't have to have a higher speed just a higher agility so they can align and GTFO when trouble appears. Give them +2 warp strength

Make the predators work for their frigging kills for a change.

That's how you help null sec miners not by screwing over WH residents.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.09.02 14:57:00 - [41]
 

Originally by: Shadowsword
There's always less activity in summer
No.
Originally by: Not-Apsalar
It's Summer time. People go outside and do things in Summer time. Screw sitting in front of the computer for 4 hours, I'm going to the beach.
No.

Again: activity normally increases during the summer as people have more free time. We saw the same thing this summer, just like every summer before it (up until the point Incarna hit and online numbers started to plummet). The mythical “summer dip” does not happen until late summer/early autumn (i.e. right about this time) when people go back to school/work after their vacations.

Numbers going down right now is pretty much normal, but they have also been abnormally depressed by the release of Incarna, which should have boosted numbers alongside the normal increased summer activity.

Information Agent
Posted - 2011.09.02 14:59:00 - [42]
 

Edited by: Information Agent on 02/09/2011 14:59:02
Originally by: Sullen Skoung

and I call BS on your claims that there are beaches in this outside


No its true, I think I saw one once, or it was my cats litter tray, maybe. Surprised

Demon Azrakel
Gallente
Defiant..
Narwhals Ate My Duck
Posted - 2011.09.02 15:01:00 - [43]
 

Edited by: Demon Azrakel on 02/09/2011 15:02:36
Edited by: Demon Azrakel on 02/09/2011 15:01:08
Originally by: Shadowsword
Originally by: Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
Meanwhile, our beloved CSM which so much represents us, is very busy tackling on the critical issue of ABC minerals being found at wormholes and detracting 3% of nullsec's business with them.


I don't care much about ABC minerals in wormholes either way, yet you are probably badly informed if you think this was negligible. CCP Greyscale showed some stats, and ABC in wormhole account for about 24% or the total ABC mined. This is a lot more than T3 production need, and a serious blow to 0.0 mining. Less than 3% of nullsec's business? Given the way supply vs demand work in a exponential way, rather than linear, you could probably count of ABC prices to increase by 30 to 35% if ABC supply is cut.


24% of ABC is mined in 40% of 0.0 (WH are 0.0, off the top of my head there are 2500 WH systems and about 3500-4000 0.0 systems), where logistics are a huge pain in the ass and mining is worth a lot less than other WH activities. Oh, and it is harder to be killed in 0.0 because of local chat.

STOP THE ****ING PRESSES

Seriously, drop this issue, it makes you look stupid. There is no reason to expect nullsec miners in super safe space to make a ton more than WH miners. None at all.

Sullen Skoung
Posted - 2011.09.02 15:08:00 - [44]
 

Originally by: Information Agent
Edited by: Information Agent on 02/09/2011 14:59:02
Originally by: Sullen Skoung

and I call BS on your claims that there are beaches in this outside


No its true, I think I saw one once, or it was my cats litter tray, maybe. Surprised


My cat has his own pod. No need of a "tray"

Cyniac
Gallente
Twilight Star Rangers
Posted - 2011.09.02 15:18:00 - [45]
 

Originally by: Tirane Merkator
This is what i don't get. I started the game about 1.5 Months ago and did the trial about 3 months ago before incarna came... First thing i did was deactivate CQ because it loaded longer and i opened the nex shop exactly once for a giggle and closed it again. i find it crappy and i dont need it BUT it doesn't impair my playing at all.

why can't you people just ignore it and let the barbielovers have their thing? it doesn't impair your playing in any way unless they will bring items in which will alter skills or whatever but i doubt they would do that.


Most people do ignore it and let the barbielovers do their thing.

But that's not the issue - the issue is really one of opportunity cost and allocation of resources.

When a company has a flagship product (in this case - EVE for CCP) which is market leader in its niche field (hardcore MMO) and the company is consistently failing to invest in that product, when it is clear that the product would benefit from investment - the message that is being given speaks more than a thousand words - that company is pulling out of that product line. This makes a lot of people upset because they care about eve and so they rage and complain and quit... because some people love this universe.

When dealing with corporations, you listen to everything they say, and then you make your assessment on where they put their money. Right now CCP has a problem - they say one thing and put their money somewhere else. Unfortunately for them they have the most mature and critically thinking population of any MMO I know of... and some people are quite vocal.

I'll let you all make up your mind on what that discrepancy implies in itself.

Cipher Jones
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.09.02 15:24:00 - [46]
 

Edited by: Cipher Jones on 02/09/2011 15:27:35
During what season? Your OP is incredibly biased. Because 3 years ago was 2008. Yes, there were 45,000 people online concurrently in 2008. Same with 2011. What you are omitting is that in 2009, depending on the season and day of the week, there were as little as 18,000 people logged in concurrently.

According to the 2.4% growth that has been estimated, that would mean on a holiday weekend in September in 2014, there should be about 28857 players logged in.

The good news about that is that even tho 2.4% growth is considered "bad" by many, it is certainly enough to keep the CCP in business. Couple that with the fact that killing off bots gives more CPU per user, it should be relatively lag free play.

Nostalgia is nice. Where Eve is headed is better than where it was. Only the shortsighted and smitten can't see this.

*edit* There were not 45k players online 3 years ago. just checked Eve Offline.

Serial Chi
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.09.02 15:25:00 - [47]
 

Edited by: Serial Chi on 02/09/2011 15:31:10
funny seeing a lot of these speculations for the sudden drop of players in the US time zone.

what really is going is that SW:TOR just went beta and anyone with a facebook account can join. lots of players from different games, not just eve, especially american players, are playing WoW in space with light sabers. thats the main reason why the whole drop issue is going on. not the only reason, but is the main one. mmo players instinctively flock to different mmo games when they are first released. they return however once they realized its the same rehashed crap.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.09.02 15:26:00 - [48]
 

Originally by: Cipher Jones
Nostalgia is nice. Where Eve is headed is better than where it was. Only the shortsighted and smitten can't see this.
That all depends on what short-sighted decisions CCP make to get there…

Cipher Jones
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.09.02 15:34:00 - [49]
 

Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Cipher Jones
Nostalgia is nice. Where Eve is headed is better than where it was. Only the shortsighted and smitten can't see this.
That all depends on what short-sighted decisions CCP make to get there…


I trust their business sense more than both of ours TBH.

I do think they have a good plan, but I realize they make poor decisions at times and are not infallible. Time shall tell.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.09.02 15:45:00 - [50]
 

Originally by: Cipher Jones
I trust their business sense more than both of ours TBH.
Before Incarna, so did I… mostly.

The statements made by their business guys made me waver on that point.

Sullen Skoung
Posted - 2011.09.02 15:49:00 - [51]
 

Originally by: Cipher Jones


I trust their business sense more than both of ours TBH.

I do think they have a good plan, but I realize they make poor decisions at times and are not infallible. Time shall tell.


Yes.. CCP knows best

see sig

Cipher Jones
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.09.02 15:59:00 - [52]
 

Originally by: Sullen Skoung
Originally by: Cipher Jones


I trust their business sense more than both of ours TBH.

I do think they have a good plan, but I realize they make poor decisions at times and are not infallible. Time shall tell.


Yes.. CCP knows best

see sig


They unequivocally know what is better for Eve online than you good sir. And I never said or inferred they knew best. I specifically said they are not infallible.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/

Sullen Skoung
Posted - 2011.09.02 16:06:00 - [53]
 

Originally by: Cipher Jones
Originally by: Sullen Skoung
Originally by: Cipher Jones


I trust their business sense more than both of ours TBH.

I do think they have a good plan, but I realize they make poor decisions at times and are not infallible. Time shall tell.


Yes.. CCP knows best

see sig


They unequivocally know what is better for Eve online than you good sir.


see sig. They know better than me, than you, than all of us, than all the people that have already left and that will leave when they get sick of their ****

Raknarg Valklear
Posted - 2011.09.02 16:52:00 - [54]
 

sigh i visit this place once in month or two and there is still same 3and a half trools tapping ccp back.

Just get a life allready.


bugs/bugs/bugs/bugs/unfinished/unfinished/bugs/bugs/ignore/ignore/overheat/somemore bugs/awesome 4 year in making grandma basement/bugs...that and many more is where eve are,but hey some people are blind no matter what,for all they care all this people are from paralel universe and are in wrong realm to complain to right?

big amount of typos expected am kinda on phone cant check for errors,and knowing 4 other languages dont give a damn either.

Trainwreck McGee
Posted - 2011.09.02 17:11:00 - [55]
 

The sad thing is EVE is actually finally dieing.........

Diomedes Calypso
Aetolian Armada
Posted - 2011.09.02 17:57:00 - [56]
 

If interst in the game had remained 100% the same among PLAYERS
(# of players does not = # of accounts)

Online accounts should still have dropped with Incarna even with the same level of interest

Why? extra resources necessary for the client:
- players will be less likely to leave the same number of clients open while playing, the resources will make them ask themselves more frequently whether they need the second or 3rd or 4th logged in at the same time
- players will be less likely to leave the client logged in for hours while playing other games or working on resource demanding applications like video editiing, 3 d rendering etc.

It is impossible to tell what portion of a drop is due to incrmental loss of interest in the game and which portion due to greater thought and higher threshold of utitilty necessary to stay logged in.

It is entirely conceivable that interest went up , that more peole/players have come to the game, yet the average number of accounts logged in decreased.

I am one that got turned of majorly by the underlying motivations and focus revealed in the Fearless newsletter and have dratically reduced (almost eliminated) my log in time. However, I can't conclude that the numbers show such a huge cause effect timing.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.09.02 18:07:00 - [57]
 

Originally by: Diomedes Calypso
I am one that got turned of majorly by the underlying motivations and focus revealed in the Fearless newsletter and have dratically reduced (almost eliminated) my log in time. However, I can't conclude that the numbers show such a huge cause effect timing.
Well… there was a slight bump in on-line players in the first 2-3 days after the patch (compared to the same weekdays before and after), but as the débacle kept on building, it kind of jumped off a cliff…

That post-patch Sunday is particularly telling, and while the post-patch Saturday had better numbers than the pre-patch one, it wasn't nearly as much as the preceding days — already there, the population had started to sag.

Black Dranzer
Caldari
Posted - 2011.09.02 18:12:00 - [58]
 

Subscriber numbers would be more interesting to see that active online numbers, honestly.

Diomedes Calypso
Aetolian Armada
Posted - 2011.09.02 18:13:00 - [59]
 

Originally by: Cyniac
Originally by: Tirane Merkator
This is what i don't get. I started the game about 1.5 Months ago and did the trial about 3 months ago before incarna came... First thing i did was deactivate CQ because it loaded longer and i opened the nex shop exactly once for a giggle and closed it again. i find it crappy and i dont need it BUT it doesn't impair my playing at all.

why can't you people just ignore it and let the barbielovers have their thing? it doesn't impair your playing in any way unless they will bring items in which will alter skills or whatever but i doubt they would do that.


Most people do ignore it and let the barbielovers do their thing.

But that's not the issue - the issue is really one of opportunity cost and allocation of resources.

When a company has a flagship product (in this case - EVE for CCP) which is market leader in its niche field (hardcore MMO) and the company is consistently failing to invest in that product, when it is clear that the product would benefit from investment - the message that is being given speaks more than a thousand words - that company is pulling out of that product line. This makes a lot of people upset because they care about eve and so they rage and complain and quit... because some people love this universe.

When dealing with corporations, you listen to everything they say, and then you make your assessment on where they put their money. Right now CCP has a problem - they say one thing and put their money somewhere else. Unfortunately for them they have the most mature and critically thinking population of any MMO I know of... and some people are quite vocal.

I'll let you all make up your mind on what that discrepancy implies in itself.


The level of anger also come from there being a lack of similar alternatives...sandbox games with huge levels of complexity where those that spend more effort unwrapping difficult to completely grasp interactions will get ahead in whichever parts of the game interest them.

I've been trying WoW again. That was never a pvp game in my opinion(it had some little contrived battlegrounds and has some console style fast twitch arena compeition, but the ganks in the world have little cost to others and offer little to gain in terms of peer reviewable km's etc that can tell a story betwen players)

---but WoW, on a PVE level, did offer some learning curves to enjoy. Optimizing a players skills, spells, cool downs and equipment was important not just in end game raids for the hardest core, but while leveling through content and taking on instances along the way at the levels you first gained access to the content. It did REQUIRE social interaction to find groups of 5 players and usually some level of discussion between players in chat, or sometimes voice to assign targets an roles... things like finesse in how quickly you could maintain damage, and a focus on controlling or disabling npc's until the group could primary them... that all took certain levels of thinking and planned interaction.

WoW was also a colorful cartoon, with humor and sillness well executed...like a serial captain marvel comic series in which you played an active part...they're still good at that and if thats for you they have an intertaining product.

But they have ablsolutely gutted all necessity for thinking and all necessity for finding a way to meet and cooperate in a give and take way with strangers that a lot of people who really like gaming want...."hard-core gamers?" idk if that's the right term... but it is a niche, even if a small portion of the market...

There is a group of people playing the game that want complex and difficult games and couldn't give a flying crap if there were lots of easy games out there as long as there were harder ones.

Those same people also often like a persistent universe like this one where players efforts over time (either politically, logistically, or just the mundane jokeying of commands on the ship shooting)

Shizu Eisenkreuz
Minmatar
Republic Military School
Posted - 2011.09.02 18:16:00 - [60]
 

Population of a 8 years old videogame with a niche, nerdy audience is stagnating.


TRAGEDY


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