open All Channels
seplocked EVE New Citizens Q&A
blankseplocked Simplifying Ship Fittings & The Confusing Market
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Author Topic

Eternum Praetorian
PWNED Factor
The Seventh Day
Posted - 2011.09.01 14:01:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Eternum Praetorian on 01/09/2011 19:59:34

Looking at the market and all of those learning skills, life can seem both confusing and daunting to the new player. This write up is intended to streamline EVE Online’s steep learning curve….

So lets get started :)




Removing The Mystery From Fitting Ships





High Slots (Your Weapons)



All races have two sets of weapons 1. Long range, low DPS weapons and 2. Short range, high DPS weapons. Don’t worry about all the other crap, just pay attention to the below list because it simplifies the information.


Minmatar:

Long Range: Artillery
Short Range: Autocannons


Amarr:

Long Range: Beam Lasers
Short Range: Pulse Lasers


Caldari:

Long Range: Heavy Missiles, Cruise Missiles
Short Range: Heavy Assault Missiles, Torpedoes

Gallente:

Long Range: Hybrid Guns
Short Range: Blasters




Do I Need Both?

Yes. You do. Long range weapons are for PVE (ISK Making) and sniper style PVP. Short range weapons are for up-close and personal shoot the other guy in his face PVP. DO NOT create a character that is incapable of defending itself, you are going to need PVP based weapons to protect all of the ISK and assets that you're going to collect with the long range ones.




Ask yourself this question: “Do I want to be defenseless in a game marketed as being a ‘cold and unforgiving’ universe?”

Ofc you don’t want to be defenseless Wink







Your Tank (Mid Slots For Shields & Low Slots For Armor)


There is actually no difference between a shield tank and an armor tank other then the fact that they occupy midslots (for shield) and low slots (for armor) EVE is pretty simple when you get down to it and if you break it down, all that you really need are these 3 simple things.

1. Buffer (a way to increase how much armor or shield you have)
2. Resists (a way to reduce your in coming damage)
3. And Armor Repairer Or Shield Booster (a way to heal yourself)





So For Armor, Only These Mods Matter:
Armor Plate + Energized Adaptive Nanomembrane + Armor Repairer

And For Shield Tankers, Only These Mods Matter:
Large Shield Extender + Invulnerability Field + Shield Booster






There Are 4 Kinds Of Resists & 4 Kinds Of Damage



When something shoots at you it is not dealing “one” kind of damage, it is usually dealing 2 of 4 types of damage. This is how EVE Online adds a measure of diversity to the gameplay.

There names are “EM, Thermal, Kinetic and Explosive” damage types.


If you look at the market you will see that 1. The Energized Adaptive Nanomembrane and 2. The Invulnerability Field “harden” your ship VS all 4 damage types at once. This tends to be very good for PVP because you don’t know what will be shooting at you when you're fighting (and usually more then one ship will be shooting at you at the same time)





Eternum Praetorian
PWNED Factor
The Seventh Day
Posted - 2011.09.01 14:03:00 - [2]
 

Edited by: Eternum Praetorian on 01/09/2011 15:27:45
Damage Specific Hardeners:

There are hardeners that increase your resistance to only ONE damage type. These mods tend to be used during PVE because the NPC (non-player controlled entities in game) will be dealing 2 of the 4 damage types most of the time. So if I know I am going up against Sansha for example, I will put on EM/Therm hardeners because that is the kind of damage that they deal.


Damage specific hardeners also make your resists higher to that specific damage type (which is another reason why people use them for PVE, it makes the NPC’s easier to tank)







Dealing More DPS (You Want To Kill Faster)


I kid you not, killing faster is better then tanking more in this game. Trust me on this! If you kill faster (be it vs real players or NPC) you don’t have to tank as much or for as long now do you?

Each race has it’s own “Damage Increasing Module”
You will want at least 1 of them in the low slots of any build that you create.



Minmatar:
Gyrostabilizer

Amarr:
Heat Sink

Caldari:
Ballistic Control Unit

Gallente:
Magnetic Field Stabilizer


If you kill too slow life will suck for you, regardless of whether you’re engaging in PVP or PVE. Speed = success and maximum ISK made per hour.





So What Ships Should I Fly?

That’s the big question isn’t it! Here is the secret…
Ignore everything else and pay attention ONLY what is written below.


ALL YOU NEED TO DO
is choose ships that get a DAMAGE BONUS. A damage bonus means that it can kill stuff faster and that means that you will be more successful. No damage bonus is like throwing spitballs at your target instead of hammering it with an AK-47.





So Lets Compare Some Ships...




Harbinger vs. Prophecy

Harbinger gets 5% damage bonus and 10% capacitor bonus (it takes less energy to fire your guns) where as the Prophecy gets 10% capacitor bonus and 5% bonus to resists.

Harbinger wins because it gets a DPS Bonus.


Drake Vs. Ferox

Drake gets 5% Bonus to Kinetic Missile Damage and 5% bonus to shield Resistance (that’s pretty sweet, a damage bonus + a tank bonus) where as the Ferox gets 10% bonus to Hybrid turret optimal range and 5% Bonus to shield resistance.

Drake wins because it gets a DPS bonus.




Myrmidon Vs Brutix

Myrmidon gets 10% increase to drone hit points and damage dealt by drones, and 7.5% bonus armor repair rate, where as the Brutix gets 5% bonus to turret damage and 7.5% bonus to armor repair rate.

Myrmidon wins because a 10% damage bonus beats the Burtix’s 5% damage bonus



Hurricane Vs Cyclone

Hurricane gets 5% increase damage and 5% increase rate of fire (rate of fire means they shoot faster which means it’s a double damage bonus) where as the Cyclone gets 5% bonus to turret rate of fire and 7.5% bonus to shield boosting.


Hurricane wins because it gets the damage bonus (in fact it gets a double damage bonus)




You can do this to any two ships that you are comparing. People who actually know how to play the game are choosing ships based upon these principles, and once you understand them the guessing game that is the market begins to fade away completely. Cool




Eternum Praetorian
PWNED Factor
The Seventh Day
Posted - 2011.09.01 14:07:00 - [3]
 

Edited by: Eternum Praetorian on 01/09/2011 14:51:19
So What Are My Rig Slots For?

Rigs are items you can stick on your ship but can never take back off…



Think of them as ship upgrades, and YES they make all the difference in the world be it in PVE or PVP. Core Defence Field Purgers for example are why people say that a Drake can tank like a beast. A Drake with those rigs can tank almost anything, where as one without them won’t be tanking much at all.




Rigs on sub-battleship hulls are pretty inexpensive and they can do everything from increasing your ships tank to increasing your probe’s sensor strength (for all you wormhole lovers out there)




So basically...
ALWAYS rig the ships that you fly.





...





Can Someone Please Explain Meta Level To Me?

Meta Level is just a term CCP uses to describe how good a module is…




Open up the market and you see all of these weird versions of the same module. There is the Tech I Version (wich sucks) and there is the Tech II version (which is the one you want) but in between there are “Meta Versions” and these are the ones with the weird names.



Meta Level 1,2,3 and 4 can be seen inside of the modules info after your right click it (it's near the bottom) Meta 4 is roughly = in quality to Tech II but requires less skills to use. Simple right? So don’t let it confuse you because once you understand why CCP added all of those named items it becomes a simple thing to sort through them.






Not Worth The Price:

Some Meta 4 modules are stupidly expensive are ARE NOT worth the price tag. Buy Meta 3 or 2 if you want stats better then your basic Tech I variety. Don’t get ripped off by the market manipulators.





...





Should I Shield Tank Or Armor Tank?

It doesn’t really matter…




Everything in EVE has its ups and downs. So feel free to pick a race that you like based upon the info that was given to you when you created your character, or from nothing more then how “neat” their ships look when you see pictures of them.

Your life in EVE Online will pretty much turn out the same way in the long run regardless of whether or not you choose and armor tank or a shield tank.


Me…
I am big on Drakes…
And I can fly every race, every ship and every weapon system in EVE.



So don’t listen to the hype, it’s a bunch of crap TBH Wink Fly what you like, choose the right ships and fit them well and your solid no matter what may come your way. Everything else is just ego stroking.

Eternum Praetorian
PWNED Factor
The Seventh Day
Posted - 2011.09.01 14:10:00 - [4]
 

Edited by: Eternum Praetorian on 01/09/2011 15:21:09
Some Things You Will Need Along The Way...



EFT Is And Out Of Game Ship Fitting Simulator

Linkage

This will allow you to fit your ships out of game BEFORE you actually by the mods in game. A must have for any player...





Joining A Corporation


This is an MMO (Massive Multiplayer Online) video game. You don't come to a game like this to not interact with people. The right corporation will bring you to heights that you could never have achieved alone, where as the wrong one will make you want to quit the game entirely.





Choosing The Right Corporation...




In this game being a "CEO" is nothing more then a skill that you train for 10 minutes, just because someone trained said skill does not mean that they have even a shred of leadership ability. Do not stay inside of corporations with AFK Leadership, they are doomed to fail and they will take you with them when they do.



1. Do they have a clear and realistic plan (achievable in about 6 months)
2. Do they appear to be working towards set goals and actually accomplishing them (or are they falling on their face)
3. Do they have a killboard, a forum or a Vent/Teamspeak?
4. Do their goals match yours?



If they don't have any of these very basic things that I listed above, then why join them? There are plenty of corporations out there that DO HAVE these things. So why sit there in a fail corporation when you could instead be shopping around for one that will enhance your gaming experience.


You pay real money for this game right? Cool
Get your moneys worth out of it...








Do I Want To Be The CEO Of My Own Corporation?


I have been one for 3 years and counting, so take this to the bank. You better REALLY like planning, dealing with peoples little problems and multitasking. People will log on and ask "what is going on" and they will expect that YOU have made a plan for them.

It is exactly like kindergarten when all the kids walk into class and look at the teacher, wondering what today's plan will be. If you don't have one... your little "children" will run a muck and they won't stay around for long.




Making a good, strong and enduring corporation can take at least a year, and there is SO MUCH competition from random upstart corporations that will ultimately disband and fall into oblivion. Does this sound like fun to you?



If The Answer Is Yes: Go for it.
If The Answer Is No: Don't, because it will suck for you and everyone that you recruit.






I myself have taken 6 month long breaks from EVE because alliance leadership burned me out...




Eternum Praetorian
PWNED Factor
The Seventh Day
Posted - 2011.09.01 14:14:00 - [5]
 

Edited by: Eternum Praetorian on 01/09/2011 15:18:27

And now I must head to work...
To bad we don't get paid to play EVE Online Laughing



Watch for more threads like this one in the near future. I am going to cover all the basics and little intricacies of EVE Online one at a time and then link them into one master "glossary post" for quick and easy reference.

Bloemkoolsaus
Posted - 2011.09.01 14:30:00 - [6]
 

Good info overall, you are forgetting a few things though.

Originally by: Eternum Praetorian

Your Tank (Mid Slots For Shields & Low Slots For Armor)

There is actually no difference between a shield tank and an armor tank other then the fact that they occupy midslots (for shield) and low slots (for armor) EVE is pretty simple when you get down to it and if you break it down, all that you really need are these 3 simple things.

1. Buffer (a way to increase how much armor or shield you have)
2. Resists (a way to reduce your in coming damage)
3. An Armor Repairer Or Shield Booster (a way to heal yourself)



I think you are wrong to state that there are no differences.

The difference between shield and armor tanking is that shields slowly regenerate by themselves, armor does not.
This makes the passive shield tank more effective then the passive armor tank.

The fact that a shield tank uses mid slots, and an armor tank uses lowslots gives us other significant differences. Let's zoom in.

Disadvantange of the shield tank:
Prop mods (afterburner or mircowarpdrive), Webifiers and scamblers also require a med slot. This means that if you want one of those (and you do if you want to PVP) you sacrifice tank.

Advantage of the shield tank:
Damage increasing modules (you named them) require low slots. Since a shield tank doesn't need lowslots, you can put on more damage mods then an armor tank.

Disadvantange of the armor tank:
An armor tank requires lowslots. This means les space for damage mods.
Also, armor tanks usually involve one or more armor plates. These modules increase the mass of your ship, decreasing agility. In fast fights, this can be an issue.

Advantages of armor tanks:
They don't use med slots, leaving more then enough space for prop mods, webbers, scramblers, sensor boosters, cap injectors and other handy stuff.


Because of the med slots, most people prefer armor tanks on their pvp setups.
In fast roaming fleets, it's the opposite. Speed is important here and plates slow you down, so shield setups are prefered.

You didn't mention speed tanking but that's probably to complex for newer players :)


Originally by: Eternum Praetorian

Dealing More DPS (You Want To Kill Faster)

I kid you not, killing faster is better then tanking more in this game. Trust me on this! If you kill faster (be it vs real players or NPC) you don’t have to tank as much or for as long now do you?

Each race has it’s own “Damage Increasing Module”
You will want at least 1 of them in the low slots of any build that you create.



Your actual damage is also depended on the signature radius and speed of your target. A battleship can do a lot of damage, but can't hit a fast moving frigate.
Besides damage increasing modules, there are modules that increase the chance of dealing full damage.
Target Painter: http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Target_Painter_I
Tracking Computer: http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Tracking_Computer_I
Tracking Enhancer: http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Tracking_Enhancer_I

Eternum Praetorian
PWNED Factor
The Seventh Day
Posted - 2011.09.01 14:34:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Bloemkoolsaus
Usual Stuff


How about you let this thread keep for the people who are asking basic questions and not overcomplicated it with the same drivel that confuses people, frustrates them and makes them either fail fit or leave the game?




Bloemkoolsaus
Posted - 2011.09.01 14:37:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Eternum Praetorian
Originally by: Bloemkoolsaus
Usual Stuff

How about you let this thread keep for the people who are asking basic questions and not overcomplicated it with the same drivel that confuses people, frustrates them and makes them either fail fit or leave the game?



Well, explaining difference will allow people to choose between what they want.

Giving them incorrect info will not.

Angela Rens
Posted - 2011.09.01 14:42:00 - [9]
 

Awesome post, thank you. This really helped clear up a few things.

Eternum Praetorian
PWNED Factor
The Seventh Day
Posted - 2011.09.01 14:48:00 - [10]
 

Edited by: Eternum Praetorian on 01/09/2011 15:19:08
Originally by: Angela Rens
Awesome post, thank you. This really helped clear up a few things.


Still building Cool

Check back a little later on for the completed version.



Edit: Ok now post is completed Wink

Uppsy Daisy
Caldari
Deteis Industries
Posted - 2011.09.01 16:00:00 - [11]
 

Damage control.

Velicitia
Gallente
Open Designs
Posted - 2011.09.01 16:05:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Eternum Praetorian

So For Armor, Only These Mods Matter:
Armor Plate + Energized Adaptive Nanomembrane + Armor Repairer

And For Shield Tankers, Only These Mods Matter:
Large Shield Extender + Invulnerability Field + Shield Booster



ShockedYou forgot Damage Control Unit (low slot).

Don't leave home without one.Cool

Xercodo
Amarr
Xovoni Directorate
Posted - 2011.09.01 17:04:00 - [13]
 

I want to stab you for combining active and buffer tanks

Put in a bit about buffer tank, passive tank, and active tank

Armor Buffer:
Armor Active:

Shield Buffer:
Shield Passive:
Shield Active:

Sure it kicks up the complexity of tanking up a notch but I think it's worth it for them to know about it

Cause I don't want to be the guy explaining how fail they are fro fitting a shield booster and a shield extender to their drake cause "an awesome guide on the forums told me to"

additionally there are tanky rigs that you can apply to this too, aux nano pumps, trimarks, cap safegaurds, purgers, extenders

and you never mentioned shield boost amps

and like the others said, put in the DC...maybe even explain bulkheads and how a hull tank can be possible combined with a DC (of course feel free to paint a big red sign that says to not do hull tanks if you dont know what you're doing)

Eternum Praetorian
PWNED Factor
The Seventh Day
Posted - 2011.09.01 18:14:00 - [14]
 

Edited by: Eternum Praetorian on 01/09/2011 18:20:05
Maybe Xercodo, it is better to explain it in the most simple way possible in say part 1, and then add more complexity in say, part 2? You know to get people accustom to the information and avoid confusion?


Also, got to love people who start a post with "I want to stab you" tell-tale sign of an over developed nerd Ego. Just saying...

ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
Posted - 2011.09.01 19:13:00 - [15]
 

Edited by: ShahFluffers on 01/09/2011 19:14:24

That... mmmmmmmm...

I must give you credit for your intention. Yes, it is not easy to teach the un-initiated/ignorant and often the first response is to "dumb things down" a bit to make it more easily "digestible" (a tactic that I have often employed in RL tutoring).

However, what you wrote was painful to read. Not only were large chunks of it factually incorrect/imprecise, but there was a lot of opinion in it as well (which is something any good teacher tries to avoid... or point out at the very least).

A good example would be your "Myrmidon-Brutix" comparison. You "claim" that the Myrm is better because it get's a 10% damage bonus to its drones while the Brutix only get's a 5% bonus to its turrets. I can say from experience that the Brutix is more capable of pumping out DPS than the Myrmidon is. The reason you see more people choosing the Myrmidon is because it can actually fit some semblance of a tank for [slightly] less DPS and that it isn't limited to using hybrid weapons via a bonus.


I'll stop here because I have yet to let my morning coffee set in (I'm cranky right now) and I also don't want to spend the next 15 minutes of my life nitpicking on things here and there.

Eternum Praetorian
PWNED Factor
The Seventh Day
Posted - 2011.09.01 19:29:00 - [16]
 

Edited by: Eternum Praetorian on 01/09/2011 19:29:41
Originally by: ShahFluffers
The reason you see more people choosing the Myrmidon is because it can actually fit some semblance of a tank for [slightly] less DPS and that it isn't limited to using hybrid weapons via a bonus.



And yet...
For whatever the reason may be, the Myrmidon tends to be a good choice.


Do you have a simpler way to explain to the uninitiated how to pick the best ship? Besides ofc "ones that get the DPS bonus?" You cannot convey to the uninitiated all the nuances at once and expect them to understand, you have to tell it to them simple and give them the rest later.

ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
Posted - 2011.09.01 20:25:00 - [17]
 

Edited by: ShahFluffers on 01/09/2011 20:35:20
Originally by: Eternum Praetorian

Do you have a simpler way to explain to the uninitiated how to pick the best ship? Besides ofc "ones that get the DPS bonus?" You cannot convey to the uninitiated all the nuances at once and expect them to understand, you have to tell it to them simple and give them the rest later.


There is a way...

You explain the basics using terminology and concepts that a good majority of people might be more familiar with (I guess this can also be seen as "dumbing down"... but so long as the overall concept(s) stand (despite being explained using "simple" concepts) then I feel it is okay).

For example (awww damn, coffee kicking in):


In selecting a ship (or general ship line) you want to choose something whose strengths best fit your style of play. A simple breakdown of ship strengths include, but are not limited to:

Tank (defense), DPS (offense), and mobility (speed-agility).

Ships that are well endowed in Tank are among the easiest to fly in EVE. Simply slap on as much raw HP along with resistances and you are good to go. Pretty simple.
However tanky ships do have a "slight" problem; they tend to lack in dishing out damage and/or getting in and out of situations (both good and bad). Many people try to get around this by sacrificing a part of the defenses to give tanky ships more damage dealing and/or mobility capabilities... which works to a degree (they'll still be "tanky" at heart).
One can spot these ships by looking for ships that give bonuses to; damage resistances to armor/shields, raw HP to armor/shields, and/or repair rates to armor/shield repair modules.

Ships that can pump out DPS are a favorite among many pilots out in space (as the old saying goes, "offense is the best defense"). These ships are pretty simple in how they are both fitted and used (though, it is a good idea to read up on more "advanced" tactics)... simply fit as many of the biggest guns you can and get in range.
DPS ships do have a few problems though. They have a tendency to sacrifice their "tank" for damage dealing abilities (this is especially so for armor based ships), leaving them quite fragile and with little "staying power."
One can generally spot these ships as they have bonuses geared towards upping damage output and/or rate of fire.

Certain ships excel in being mobile and fast. While some of you "offense-defense" people may not consider this too much of an asset, I would like to point out that you cannot kill what you cannot "pin down." Ships that are extremely mobile can "kite" (see: "strafe") less mobile ships and slowly grind them down with time. And if a situation turns sour, mobile ships can easily disengage and fly away.
One of the common disadvantages with ships that excel in mobility is that they tend to be lacking in either DPS or, more normally, tank.
One can spot these ships by looking at their base speed. Generally, the higher the speed the more mobile the ship is (not always true, but it's a good rule of thumb to follow).


I should note that all of the above are fairly extreme in their presentation. Generally, all ships tend to be able to fit themselves to do at least 2 of the 3 things mentioned (i.e. Tank and DPS, DPS and Mobility, Mobility and Tank). So, before buying a ship, take your time to look through the respective stats of each ship you are interested in... and pay close attention to the bonuses. What a ship MIGHT be able to do is hinted at through the bonuses (but not always).

Eternum Praetorian
PWNED Factor
The Seventh Day
Posted - 2011.09.01 20:36:00 - [18]
 

Edited by: Eternum Praetorian on 02/09/2011 03:18:26
And I disagree...


Also your version comes off as clunky and difficult to read TBH. Way to much info there, people need simpler and clearer things in their first week...

ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
Posted - 2011.09.01 20:44:00 - [19]
 

Mmm... agree to disagree. I'd rather have an information "flood" and sort through it all in my first week than get semi-incorrect information and then wonder "why did my ship just blow up? Didn't I do everything right?"

Eternum Praetorian
PWNED Factor
The Seventh Day
Posted - 2011.09.01 20:50:00 - [20]
 

Edited by: Eternum Praetorian on 02/09/2011 03:20:02
Originally by: ShahFluffers
Mmm... agree to disagree. I'd rather have an information "flood" and sort through it all in my first week than get semi-incorrect information and then wonder "why did my ship just blow up? Didn't I do everything right?"



You seem to have missed the part where I said that this post is intended to be part 1 of a series posts, eventually collected into 1 master "glossary" post for easy navigation. Wink So how about letting it be what it is and stop nit picking?

Think of this as a part 1. introduction...

ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
Posted - 2011.09.01 21:02:00 - [21]
 

Edited by: ShahFluffers on 01/09/2011 21:03:45
Originally by: Eternum Praetorian

You seem to have missed the part where I said that this post is intended to be part 1 of a series posts, eventually collected into 1 master "glossary" post for easy navigation. Cool

Think of this as a part one introduction...


Yes, I do understand that... but at least get the information correct on your first pass rather than come back around later and say "remember when I said 'do this?' Yeah, don't do it. It's dumb/wrong/incorrect."

That sets people up for confusion. And more often than not, many newbies won't read past the initial tutorial (learning is "boring," yo).

edit: have you considered going into the EVEWiki and "simplifying" some entries in there?

Eternum Praetorian
PWNED Factor
The Seventh Day
Posted - 2011.09.01 21:06:00 - [22]
 

Edited by: Eternum Praetorian on 02/09/2011 03:41:39

Your opinion is of course your own.


Originally by: ShahFluffers
I'd rather have an information "flood" and sort through it all in my first week than get semi-incorrect information



But the simplification and abstraction of ideas leads to people grasping complex concepts more easily. If you tutor in real life you must know this? Right? If not, well ok then have a Coke, a Cookie and a Smile.

Now are U done?




ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
Posted - 2011.09.01 21:14:00 - [23]
 

Yes, I'm done. For now. Wink


 

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only