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Zos Tarkross
Amarr
Ministry of War
Posted - 2011.09.01 10:00:00 - [1]
 

I've played EvE since 2008, with some breaks. Got into ninja salvaging a few years back (with Suddenly Ninjas). However, I've never destroyed anyone's ship (I did try to bait some mission runners from time to time, but no aggression from them). According to the Battleclinic killboard, I've lost a couple hundred million ISK in ships over the years - this was mostly from doing carebear stuff like lowsec exploration and getting hit by pirates, or trying to fly into 0.0 to rat, etc...

I decided it was time to try to destroy someone's ship. As this is EvE, there are no fair fights, right? So I thought that my first way of accomplishing this goal would be suicide ganking.

I read up on people's old forum posts, looked at potential gank ships and came up with a vague plan to destroy innocent miners in hisec (original, huh?) I wanted to try it on the cheap first with destroyers, so that would be either a Thrasher with 280mm artillery or a Calalyst with neutron blasters. This is supposed to allow for the solo killing of Retrievers in 0.5-0.6 in fast enough time before Concord response. Next step up might be a cruiser. After that, to get Hulks one is supposed to use at least a neutron blaster Brutix for solo work.

First I decided to have a look around Domain and nearby regions to see just how many miners are out there. Using the wonderful Eve Dotlan as a guide, I flew around to check out systems with a high number of asteroids belts. Sure enough, there were Hulks around. Not many Retrievers though - a bit disappointing as I wanted to blow those up first, to get my feet wet using destroyers.

Chronicles follow...

Zos Tarkross
Amarr
Ministry of War
Posted - 2011.09.01 10:05:00 - [2]
 

August 29th, 2011:
1st attempt - in 0.6 security, I found a Retriever mining in Kor-Azor. I was flying around in a covert ops ship as I didn't want to alert anyone in advance. Flew back to Amarr, fitted 7 x 280 artillery with RF EMP ammo, and 2 gyros on a Thrasher.

Flew back, began to overheat and cycle the guns. One volley - through shields and some armor. Wait an eternity of ~10 seconds. Next volley - deep into structure but he still survived. Next moment, I am Concorded. He managed to warp out about simultaneous to my being jammed by concord (in local later, apparently he was just completing his mining run and aligning to warp out - during the time of his aligning to warp was when my two volleys hit him).

I noted there were also a couple hulks in the 0.6 system next dorr, but I decided to conclude things for the moment, and that this was a good (and cheap) first step.

I jotted down the following notes/plans for next time:
- use a passive targeter on both covops (if I decide to scout with that first) and on the gank ship;
- scan the retriever: does he immediately warp? is there any tank & what kind & how much?
- add 1 rocket or missile launcher to weapons for added dps;
- add a target painter and/or scram?
- try Catalyst (with blasters, rather than the artillery Thrasher - or use autocannons on Thrasher?)
- investigate damage or rate-of-fire implants (cost/benefit)

Zos Tarkross
Amarr
Ministry of War
Posted - 2011.09.01 10:13:00 - [3]
 

August 30th, 2011:

Initial plans (morning) - scouting around I'm not seeing a lot of Retrievers. However, I am seeing a number of Hulks, and Mackinaws in ice belts. So the best strategy may be to find those Macks in 0.5-0.6, scan them (the passive targeter works great, btw), and gank them with a brutix if they don't seem too tanked.

Idea - given the number of Mackinaws, and few Retrievers, I will fit up some Brutii (what is the plural of Brutix?) in Amarr, and go to seek the Macks.

Evening, same day...

I return to Amarr and commit some more serious ISK to the path. I buy 3 Brutii, assemble and insure the first one, and fit it up. The cost of a Brutix is about 20 million, the insurance payout is about 20 million, and the cost of platinum insurance is 5-6 million. So really each Brutix hull will cost me just 6 million. I'm willing to pay up a bit for Meta 3 guns because I'd really like this to work. The setup is: highs (7 x Anode Neutron Particle Cannon with Caldari Navy Antimatter); mids: two target painters, a passive targeter, and a ship scanner; lows: 5x magnetic stabilizer.
The belt in question is Ravaross. I make my way there, and fly close to, but not into, the ice belts, by warping to a nearby planet - no need to panic anyone unnecessarily. I do a directional scan within range of the ice and see 3 mackinaws on scan. Excellent.

I warp to the first ice belt and a Mack is just 3.5 km from me. I start to orbit at 2000 m (my optimal) and do a passive scan. The Mack is tanked just with one Magnetic Scattering gadget, and the rest of his setup is for mining (cargo expanders, etc). There is no apparent initial reaction from the Mack so I'm guessing he's at least semi-afk. I turn on the painters, the passive targeter, the guns, and then overheat. Lock target. About 15 seconds later he explodes. I sit there with the wreck next to me for a few moments watching his pod (I figure I don't really have time to lock it anyway) and then I finally get Concord in my face.

OK, I know that suicide ganking is said to be cowardly, but for me, this was a huge adrenaline rush. I loved watching his shields and armor drop and just hoping that I could fire on him fast enough before I got Concorded. Reviewing the kill afterwards, I probably shouldn't have been so tense - given that he was pretty much untanked, I only needed to do about 2000 damage before he would pop...

No immediate tears or response in local, and the pod continued to sit there while I was in my pod. It was late, so I logged off. I know EvE can be a harsh game, but until now I've only been on the victim side of killmails. Feels nice to change that.

Next steps: with Brutix #2, I will try to get one more defenceless Mackinaw. After that, #3 will be for either another Mack, or I may go for a Hulk... I'm a pretty casual player so hard to know when my next post here will be.

Praxis Astra
Minmatar
Smiling Friends Social Club
Hearts And Minds Alliance
Posted - 2011.09.01 11:50:00 - [4]
 

You know, I'm kinda liking how your mind works. More to the point I might want to post this stuff on our website especially after you go a bit further down the path towards a Manual based on more experience.

Have your girl call my girl and we'll talk!

Aggressive Nutmeg
Posted - 2011.09.01 12:09:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Zos Tarkross
I know EvE can be a harsh game, but until now I've only been on the victim side of killmails. Feels nice to change that.

That encapsulates the attitude of a fair percentage of the EVE 'community': "I've been a victim all my life, so I'm gonna victimise someone else to make me feel like a winner".

It's a vicious circle. Turn back now. Before it's too late. Razz

meatsaw
Posted - 2011.09.01 12:10:00 - [6]
 

Edited by: meatsaw on 01/09/2011 12:37:16
Edited by: meatsaw on 01/09/2011 12:11:45
You want a rush head to low/nul sec where peeps shoots back. Shooting at peeps that cant shoot back.You Sir/Madam I call Chicken ****. So grow pair and and head to Low/Nul!

Rick Venus
Minmatar
Matari Republican Army
Posted - 2011.09.01 12:35:00 - [7]
 

Keep at it. You're doing it right.

My next attempt will be with an artycane. They're a wee bit cheaper than the Tempest I used last time.


Sir Hillary
Posted - 2011.09.01 12:59:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: meatsaw
Edited by: meatsaw on 01/09/2011 12:37:16
Edited by: meatsaw on 01/09/2011 12:11:45
You want a rush head to low/nul sec where peeps shoots back. Shooting at peeps that cant shoot back.You Sir/Madam I call Chicken ****. So grow pair and and head to Low/Nul!


Lol at the idea anything you do in a game of spaceboats on the internet shows either bravery or cowardice.

meatsaw
Posted - 2011.09.01 13:10:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Sir Hillary
Originally by: meatsaw
Edited by: meatsaw on 01/09/2011 12:37:16
Edited by: meatsaw on 01/09/2011 12:11:45
You want a rush head to low/nul sec where peeps shoots back. Shooting at peeps that cant shoot back.You Sir/Madam I call Chicken ****. So grow pair and and head to Low/Nul!


Lol at the idea anything you do in a game of spaceboats on the internet shows either bravery or cowardice.


I'm not passing RL values on a game ****ing lol at that idea. I'm saying shoot **** thats shoots back if you want a real rush

Obstipation
Posted - 2011.09.01 13:24:00 - [10]
 

But how about the sec status? How much do you loose pr. highsec gank?

Zos Tarkross
Amarr
Ministry of War
Posted - 2011.09.02 02:57:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Aggressive Nutmeg

It's a vicious circle. Turn back now. Before it's too late. Razz



...cannot... turn back...

... must ...
... try to... gank again...

Zos Tarkross
Amarr
Ministry of War
Posted - 2011.09.02 03:00:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: meatsaw
Edited by: meatsaw on 01/09/2011 12:37:16
Edited by: meatsaw on 01/09/2011 12:11:45
You want a rush head to low/nul sec where peeps shoots back. Shooting at peeps that cant shoot back.You Sir/Madam I call Chicken ****. So grow pair and and head to Low/Nul!


actually I have been to low and null and sometimes lost a ship / pod there...

Zos Tarkross
Amarr
Ministry of War
Posted - 2011.09.02 03:03:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Rick Venus

My next attempt will be with an artycane. They're a wee bit cheaper than the Tempest I used last time.



mmm... artycane sounds good too. Can probably dish out much like a Brutix, except concentrated in alpha...

Zos Tarkross
Amarr
Ministry of War
Posted - 2011.09.02 03:10:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Obstipation
But how about the sec status? How much do you loose pr. highsec gank?


good question. I checked before I started this and was at 0.99

Now I am at 0.36

According to the character sheet:
- lost (approx) 0.95% for aggression (must have been the attempt on the Retriever)
- lost 0.96% for aggression
- lost 3.86% for ship kill (the last two were for the Mackinaw)

Not sure on the math there that takes 0.99 to 0.36?

anyways... I'll grind it back up when I have to I guess... or just find someone in low/null who will accept me... just as I am... <sniff> Crying or Very sad <sniff> and never go back to empire...

Zos Tarkross
Amarr
Ministry of War
Posted - 2011.09.02 04:08:00 - [15]
 

Fail / facepalm chronicle - Sep 1, 2011:

OK, I couldn't find any Mackinaws tonight. But I found a couple Hulks. First one I warped to, its velocity was zero. I was 10 km away, so I slowboated to an optimal 2 km orbit. His velocity was still zero (so I guess not running away). I scan - only tank is one shield extender.

Great - overheat gun rack, turn on painters and passive targeter. Lock target. Click yes I want to proceed with this dangerous action.

Hmm - why is his shield/armor not going down? Why are my guns not firing? Why are they not firing? Did I forget to <concordokken>


yes, I did forget, or I clicked something wrong and didn't shoot at the Hulk.

That... was... dumb. I'm sure some will say it served me right. I will have no way of knowing if Lila Lanernal's Hulk would have survived had I tried actually shooting something at it. But I do know that he survived because I *didn't* shoot anything at it...



Darius III
Caldari
Interstellar eXodus
BricK sQuAD.
Posted - 2011.09.02 09:08:00 - [16]
 

I like where this thread is going. Convo 'Darius iii' in game tomorrow if you'd like backup. If nothing else I will handle the pods-D3

Rikeka
Eye of God
Posted - 2011.09.02 20:31:00 - [17]
 

OP, just remember:

1) Don't try to kill pods: It hits your sec rating bad, which means less ship ganking.
2) Once you hit the -~1 sec rating, rat or do some missions, to gain some sec rating.
Don't increase it too much. The closer to 0 sec rating, the less you lose.

Brutix may be overkill for Macks or Hulks, mind you. If you are well Gallente skilled, go gank-Thorax, you park it at your optimal (no orbit), and you'll kill it just as is easy.

Zos Tarkross
Amarr
Ministry of War
Posted - 2011.09.03 10:39:00 - [18]
 

Edited by: Zos Tarkross on 03/09/2011 10:39:48
Edited by: Zos Tarkross on 03/09/2011 10:39:28
Chronicle: Sep 3 2011 (morning) - "kinda fail"

Found a Hulk with a small tank (one EM and one Thermal resistance module, and one small shield booster). I did some mental calculations and thought my dps might still be enough. Used my last Brutix against it.

Unfortunately I think the slight tank meant that the 4 volleys I got off against him got absorbed just enough that I only got him deep into structure before I got concorded.

Here is the log of the damage starting from the first shot:

10:28:24 Combat Your group of Anode Neutron Particle Cannon I hits Anori Damus (Hulk), doing 623.4 damage. <that was the first shot fired>
10:28:27 Combat Your group of Anode Neutron Particle Cannon I is well aimed at Anori Damus (Hulk), inflicting 683.6 damage.
10:28:31 Combat Your group of Anode Neutron Particle Cannon I is well aimed at Anori Damus (Hulk), inflicting 1003.7 damage.
10:28:34 Combat Your group of Anode Neutron Particle Cannon I hits Anori Damus (Hulk), doing 1261.7 damage.
10:28:36 Notify CONCORD Police Captain has started trying to warp scramble you! <and that terminated my volleys>

So as you can see, I did about 3400 in damage. The Concord response was about 12 seconds from the first shot fired. Had I got off an additional volley I think I would have had him...

At least this time I remembered to keep my guns on... Rolling Eyes




Zos Tarkross
Amarr
Ministry of War
Posted - 2011.09.03 10:43:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Rikeka
OP, just remember:

1) Don't try to kill pods: It hits your sec rating bad, which means less ship ganking.
2) Once you hit the -~1 sec rating, rat or do some missions, to gain some sec rating.
Don't increase it too much. The closer to 0 sec rating, the less you lose.

Brutix may be overkill for Macks or Hulks, mind you. If you are well Gallente skilled, go gank-Thorax, you park it at your optimal (no orbit), and you'll kill it just as is easy.


I think you're right for sure about the gank Thorax at least with Macks. Is it the same idea as the Brutix - namely neutron blasters in the highs, and mag stabs in the lows? And I assume CN AM ammunition? Now that I'm getting pretty low on ISK, may have to try the Thorax route...

Zos Tarkross
Amarr
Ministry of War
Posted - 2011.09.04 02:39:00 - [20]
 

Sept 3rd - Confirmed (to myself, I'm sure you experts know this already)... a gank Thorax can kill a relatively untanked Mackinaw.

I had: 5 neutron blasters (meta 3) in the highs with Caldari Navy AM; a painter, a passive targeter and a ship scanner in the mids; and 5 mag stabs in the lows

Did it in a 0.6 system. Had about 3 seconds to spare from the Mack's explosion until jammed by Concord.

Rikeka
Eye of God
Posted - 2011.09.04 03:50:00 - [21]
 

Edited by: Rikeka on 04/09/2011 03:56:44
Thorax should also be fine against Hulks.
Something like:

[Thorax, GANK]
Gauss Field Balancer I
Gauss Field Balancer I
Gauss Field Balancer I
F-aQ Phase Code Tracking Subroutines
F-aQ Phase Code Tracking Subroutines

'Orion' Tracking CPU I, Tracking Speed
'Orion' Tracking CPU I, Tracking Speed
'Orion' Tracking CPU I, Tracking Speed

Anode Neutron Particle Cannon I, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Anode Neutron Particle Cannon I, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Anode Neutron Particle Cannon I, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Anode Neutron Particle Cannon I, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Anode Neutron Particle Cannon I, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M

Hammerhead I x5


Should get you around 600 DPS, just park it close to target, make sure he has no boosting going on. What I do notice is that you have some really bad luck with the CONCORD timers. I used to gank with my Geddon and was always able to pull off quite a few volleys before dying (in 0.5 and 0.6 systems).

Anyone knows if the CONCORD response timer has been reduced?

Rikeka
Eye of God
Posted - 2011.09.04 03:53:00 - [22]
 

And yes, all guns overheated, drones out, and faction ammo (no more than 5/6 rounds per turre, based on your CONCORD timers)

Rikeka
Eye of God
Posted - 2011.09.04 04:34:00 - [23]
 


Damnskippy
Posted - 2011.09.04 06:27:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Rikeka
Edited by: Rikeka on 04/09/2011 03:56:44
Thorax should also be fine against Hulks.
Something like:

[Thorax, GANK]
Gauss Field Balancer I
Gauss Field Balancer I
Gauss Field Balancer I
F-aQ Phase Code Tracking Subroutines
F-aQ Phase Code Tracking Subroutines

'Orion' Tracking CPU I, Tracking Speed
'Orion' Tracking CPU I, Tracking Speed
'Orion' Tracking CPU I, Tracking Speed

Anode Neutron Particle Cannon I, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Anode Neutron Particle Cannon I, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Anode Neutron Particle Cannon I, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Anode Neutron Particle Cannon I, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Anode Neutron Particle Cannon I, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M

Hammerhead I x5


Should get you around 600 DPS, just park it close to target, make sure he has no boosting going on....


Solid advice there.
If you're looking to beat up on Macks, just find a system with an ice belt near a trade hub. They're usually full of them.


Rikeka
Eye of God
Posted - 2011.09.04 06:46:00 - [25]
 

Oh, and when dealing with Macks make sure they have Tech II mods (ice harvester's, expanders, upgrades, whatever Macks use in mids this days, etc)

When dealing with Hulks, as risk is greater, check this things:

1) If plex fitted (not as rare as you may think) get a friend or two.
2) If he has named mining upgrades
3) Fully T2 fitted.

If any of the above, try to kill it, if not, stick with "Thorax vs Macks" engagements.

Dirty Addict
Posted - 2011.09.04 11:24:00 - [26]
 

Dont orbit your target use keep at range to get into optimal and 0ms, this will help your guns track ok not much but every lil helps..

I use acs on a thrasher, the vollys arent as hard but come so much faster!

*Goes to gank something again..

Once you start it really never stops lol!!

Krixtal Icefluxor
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2011.09.04 14:59:00 - [27]
 

Edited by: Krixtal Icefluxor on 04/09/2011 15:04:04
Edited by: Krixtal Icefluxor on 04/09/2011 15:02:20
GROW A SET !!!!!!


MOVE TO NULL.


Are you so BORED with absolutly everything in life, not only do you have to pop a PAPER BAG with the equivalent of a HAND GRENADE, you feel compelled to post about THIS RIDICUOUSLY EASY ACTIVITY that is accomplished by thousands every day????

Give me ONE BIG FREAKING BREAK !

I'm gonna go have a talk with my Locator Agents.........


Zos Tarkross
Amarr
Ministry of War
Posted - 2011.09.04 16:05:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Rikeka
Edited by: Rikeka on 04/09/2011 03:56:44
Thorax should also be fine against Hulks.

[abbreviated]
F-aQ Phase Code Tracking Subroutines
F-aQ Phase Code Tracking Subroutines
'Orion' Tracking CPU I, Tracking Speed
'Orion' Tracking CPU I, Tracking Speed
'Orion' Tracking CPU I, Tracking Speed



I used 3 target painters in the mids. But I notice you recommend two tracking mods in the lows and 3 tracking CPUs in the mids. As I'm pretty new to either trackers or painters, what is the relative benefit of these modules you are suggesting (eg vs painters or anything else)?

Doesn't the use of two low slots for those modules mean that we can't have two extra mag stabs, and so this would reduce our dps?

Also, if speed is zero at optimal as another poster suggested, are tracking mods or painters even useful at all?

Zos Tarkross
Amarr
Ministry of War
Posted - 2011.09.04 16:09:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: Krixtal Icefluxor
Edited by: Krixtal Icefluxor on 04/09/2011 15:04:04
Edited by: Krixtal Icefluxor on 04/09/2011 15:02:20
MOVE TO NULL.
I'm gonna go have a talk with my Locator Agents.........



I've considered trying to move to null, actually. But I'm pretty casual at this game these days, so not sure how that would work.

So yeah, obviously anything is a paper bag if you bring enough firepower. But I wanted to give it a try. I'm not pretending it makes me some awesome pvper. Nobody is safe in EvE - if that is the principle, don't we need others to put that principle into practice?

Don't worry about the locator agents. I've been basing out of Amarr and heading for the ice belts about 6-8 jumps away (eg Raravoss). Come and find me there if you wish...

Istyn
Tactical Knightmare
Posted - 2011.09.04 16:10:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Krixtal Icefluxor
Edited by: Krixtal Icefluxor on 04/09/2011 15:04:04
Edited by: Krixtal Icefluxor on 04/09/2011 15:02:20
GROW A SET !!!!!!


MOVE TO NULL.


Are you so BORED with absolutly everything in life, not only do you have to pop a PAPER BAG with the equivalent of a HAND GRENADE, you feel compelled to post about THIS RIDICUOUSLY EASY ACTIVITY that is accomplished by thousands every day????

Give me ONE BIG FREAKING BREAK !

I'm gonna go have a talk with my Locator Agents.........




u mad or u sad?


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