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Bklyn 1
Posted - 2011.09.01 18:55:00 - [151]
 

Originally by: Roime
Ok I understand The Door is not exactly an improvement on the esthetics front, the ship was many times better, but can you list what functionality has been lost?




To me at least, there does not appear to be any functionality in the cq that I cannot do more quickly and efficiently with a mere click of a mouse in the door view. In my view, cq is a step down from the door view. It's slower, unappealing and my computer seems to dislike it almost as much as I do.

It's not that I want ship spinning per se, it's just that the old hangar was better than what the cq has to offer. I understand that some people like to see a 2005 era graphics toon constantly scratching himself. But that just doesn't do it for me.

Razin
The xDEATHx Squadron
Legion of xXDEATHXx
Posted - 2011.09.01 18:56:00 - [152]
 

Originally by: Foofad
I really hate it when people speak for "the player base," as if they had any idea what each individual really wanted or liked in a feature. For my part, I love CQ. I love the contrast of just being a person for a little while against being a space battleship when out and about. I love the additional immersion, the bright screens in the room, the holograms, the mirror, being able to walk out to the balcony and look at my ship from afar. It's ****ing cool, and I can't wait to see what they do with it.

How can you feel immersion from popping out of your ship every time you dock if it goes against every piece of EVE lore? In addition, it's just ******ed given the game's mechanics for the overwhelming majority of docked activities.

Sullen Skoung
Posted - 2011.09.01 18:57:00 - [153]
 

Originally by: Foofad
I really hate it when people speak for "the player base," as if they had any idea what each individual really wanted or liked in a feature. For my part, I love CQ. I love the contrast of just being a person for a little while against being a space battleship when out and about. I love the additional immersion, the bright screens in the room, the holograms, the mirror, being able to walk out to the balcony and look at my ship from afar. It's ****ing cool, and I can't wait to see what they do with it.

So in summary, stop saying "the player base" hates Incarna. Because I sure don't, and nor do I miss ship spinning and the old hangar interface.


I really hate it when ppl who cant read have their handlers post for them

Forum Worrier
Posted - 2011.09.01 19:07:00 - [154]
 

Originally by: Sullen Skoung

I really hate it when ppl who cant read have their handlers post for them


Quote:
lol when you cant win insult the person debating

Ascendant Sean
Posted - 2011.09.01 19:09:00 - [155]
 

Originally by: Foofad
I really hate it when people speak for "the player base," as if they had any idea what each individual really wanted or liked in a feature. For my part, I love CQ. I love the contrast of just being a person for a little while against being a space battleship when out and about. I love the additional immersion, the bright screens in the room, the holograms, the mirror, being able to walk out to the balcony and look at my ship from afar. It's ****ing cool, and I can't wait to see what they do with it.

So in summary, stop saying "the player base" hates Incarna. Because I sure don't, and nor do I miss ship spinning and the old hangar interface.


I can't speak for the playerbase. I can speak for myself. I'm about a 2 year vet, and my main is (unsubbed) in an NPC corp. I used to enjoy playing solo in high sec. Sure, I'm a carebear, and I don't get many (any) PvP kills. But I had fun, doing what I wanted, at my own speed. Take a few weeks off? Sure, I don't have a player corp to support.

More importantly, there was a real community in my NPC corp. A number of long-term players to chat to, new players to welcome, help out, and set on their way. I enjoyed that. I enjoyed when I made this alt, and found myself back in rookie chat, trying to help the hundreds of new players and a slowly drowning ISC.

It was cool to be able to head out, do some exploration, run some L4s, or just do what I wanted to do in the sandbox. If that included spending hours docked up, invoking Godwinn's law in a heated corp chat, I could do that.

I dislike CQ. I miss the hanger view, and the fact that I could dock, use the direct interface and the functionality it represented.

I REALLY dislike CCP's behaviour over the last several months. Both the macro, like going weeks without devblogs, or the forum-wide shut down of blue bars until they organised the summit (where are those minutes, again?), and the micro, like this threadnaught with a single response from CCP Soundwave, which really did not add to the debate.

So I'm done. And if anyone knows how to redeem the 8 months left on my yearly subscription, please let me know. I guess I've learnt not to sub up long-term to an MMO.

Tautut
Amarr
Posted - 2011.09.01 19:10:00 - [156]
 

Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Just to be clear, I never said you woudln't get ship spinning back, I said there wouldn't be an old hangar view.


I thought the deal was --> Dock --> Hangar View & Ship Spinning --> WiS

However, the devil is in the detail. Much as I love Eve .. a 5 FPS WiS experience is not something I'm interested in. Neither is the door.

You had better optimise the arse out of that WiS code because I'm not buying a new rig for something I couldn't give a toss about.

Razz

Happy Days.



Cdkey Disabled
Amarr
Posted - 2011.09.01 19:12:00 - [157]
 

I WANT TO SPIN SHIPS AND SEE HOW MY SHIP LOOKS IN STATION FOR **** SAKES1111!

RAW23
Posted - 2011.09.01 19:14:00 - [158]
 

Originally by: Denidil
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Denidil
for it to be reductio ad absurdium then "changing the UI" would have to be a superset of "takin your **** and giving it to someone else". which it isn't.
No, it follows the “people are complaining because of resistance to change” logic to its conclusion.


no it doesn't. because "Taking your **** and giving it to someone else" is not analogous to a cosmetic change in the user interface.


on the other hand your pitching a fit because you're asked to make the slightest adaptation to the UI is a resistance to change.

the only person here whining is you. I'm simply sick of people who are *****ing for no good reason, like you.

if you want to see a legitimate complaint about things CCP is doing go read my thread about their apparent lack of CTQ.


Tippia's (correct) use of a reductio has already had its effect in causing you to narrow down your argument from 'people complaining due to resitance to change' to 'people complaining due to resistance to changes to the UI'. You do realise that these are two completely different lines of argument don't you? Complaining about changes to the UI is a very tiny subset of complaining about changes. You should be thanking her for helping you sharpen up your argument by pointing out that your initial formulation was laughably generalised and not at all applicable to the case in hand, a point that you now accept given that you have shown that there is a significant difference between resisting some changes and resisting others.

Don't worry, though. Failure to understand the structure of a reductio is a fairly common trait amongst posters on these forums. You are not at all alone in needing to brush up your basic reasoning skills.

Forum Worrier
Posted - 2011.09.01 19:16:00 - [159]
 

Originally by: Cdkey Disabled
I WANT TO SPIN SHIPS AND SEE HOW MY SHIP LOOKS IN STATION FOR **** SAKES1111!


I want to hangar in space and shoot ships in stations!!

Kara Kugisa
Posted - 2011.09.01 19:20:00 - [160]
 

Originally by: nikolaj
Edited by: nikolaj on 01/09/2011 11:35:46
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Prince Spiderman
There will be no exodus. Just a major playerbase cleanup to remove kids, nerds and whiners not really playing EVE on a "serious" level because if they would play what the game really offers they don't care about ship spinning or an optional NeX store.
Quite incorrect. It's people who play at a "serious level" that need ship spinning the most, because the CQ gets in the way of actual gameplay.

You do understand that “ship spinning” refers to functionality and light-weight mechanics, not to the ability to turn your ship around, right?


I'm quite sure that that functionality and those lightweight mechanics are still there, i might be wrong though, at least they were there last time i played and that wa.. hm.. well.. yesterday actually... As for CQ, i'm quite certain there's an option in the settings that disables it?

Your whine+arguement is thus rendered invalid, stop hating, if you don't like it, quit and give someone your stuff..

Edit: to your last post

You obviously have not read the CCP Company goal/profile/whatever, they wish to become the supplier of the complete integrated sci-fi experience, they wish to do that through eve and Dust 514, Dust 514 in case you didnt know is the strategic shooter, not unlike battlefield 2/3 i guess, just a different setting, tied in with the EVE Universe, for a proper integration they need walking in stations.

CCP owns the intellectual property rights to anything EVE, they decide what they want to do, i for one is very impressed with their goal as well their progress towards it. So back to my original point, if you dont like it, quit, just stop your moaning.


What he said....

Started reading the thread and got bored very quickly, lots of anger over very little.

The lightweight functionality is still available in CQ, you just click the buttons and there is no need to move your avatar.

Personally prefer not to load CQ myself, but if its forced wont be losing anysleep as long as I dont have to walk around for anything.

People get so angry over every little thing I wonder why they bother playing the game...

Solstice Project
Posted - 2011.09.01 19:39:00 - [161]
 


I believe it is worth to be noted again,
that ... over the years ... CCP removed stuff people enjoyed.

I'm not an "old" player, vet or whatever you may call it,
but i've seen pictures and read oppinions.

It should not be forgotten that most players, like me,
who are "younger", do not have the slightest clue about what they are missing.

I, for one, really liked spinning my ship around in the different stations,
looking at all it's edges and wrinkles under different lightning conditions.

I accept changes, but i really fail to understand why changes have to be made
which do not help better the playing experience.

EvE is the only game i've ever heard of that gets more ugly, the more it evolves.
It seems now, it's also a game that gets less practical, the more it evolves.

Just wanted to add this, because i feel it's actually part of the discussion,
altough the concentration lies on the UI side of things.

Btw, "ship spinning" is - as the name implies - "spinning the ship".
The UI was a nice convenience, though ... but i clearly remember
people complaining about the loss of "spinning" and not about the UI.

Anyhow ... please go on, i enjoy reading this.

Sullen Skoung
Posted - 2011.09.01 19:45:00 - [162]
 

Originally by: Forum Worrier
Originally by: Sullen Skoung

I really hate it when ppl who cant read have their handlers post for them


Quote:
lol when you cant win insult the person debating



see? I was right

Although to be fair, that wasnt the case there as the quotes poster obviously didnt read the post they were replying to, not that I couldnt win against them. I was commenting on THAT.

dude, seriously, try harder on your trolling next time.

Suitonia
Gallente
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2011.09.01 19:53:00 - [163]
 

Edited by: Suitonia on 01/09/2011 19:53:41
I play the game, I have played the game for 5 years. I'm not angry at all I'm only voicing my concerns to a dubious game design decision that has absolutely no rationale, rhyme or reason behind it other than a one-liner posted after 2 months of ignoring us saying we can't have restored existing functionality because he said so.

I'm sorry if you're offended by people posting feedback on the forums for CCP to read. Unfortunately rational people like myself and Tippia are a dying breed getting drowned by Trolls, Fanbois and people who just rage at CCP for no reason.



Mendolus
Aurelius Federation
Posted - 2011.09.01 19:59:00 - [164]
 

Edited by: Mendolus on 01/09/2011 20:00:52
Originally by: Suitonia
Edited by: Suitonia on 01/09/2011 19:53:41
I play the game, I have played the game for 5 years. I'm not angry at all I'm only voicing my concerns to a dubious game design decision that has absolutely no rationale, rhyme or reason behind it other than a one-liner posted after 2 months of ignoring us saying we can't have restored existing functionality because he said so.

I'm sorry if you're offended by people posting feedback on the forums for CCP to read. Unfortunately rational people like myself and Tippia are a dying breed getting drowned by Trolls, Fanbois and people who just rage at CCP for no reason.





+1

I may be farther on the other side of the defense in this whole Incarna debacle, but I still know that Incarna has fallen far short of the mark that most of us have eagerly expected for years now, and the fact that we have now had more than a year of PvE or WiS related content and few actual spaceship related changes in their entirety is of course, rather unsettling.

But I am cautiously optimistic that given CCP's precedent concerning expansions, and what they have and have not released in the past year or two, that at the very least, we are bound to get some sort of spaceship related expansion this winter.

Since CCP claims they are going to be releasing changes to null, supercapitals, and black ops in the Winter Expansion, I can only assume this means they might also look at and tweak many other combat mechanic related mechanics that have been issues for a long while now.

I would rather have a forum full of Tippia's and Suitonia's whether I always agree with them or not, or how often I agree with them or not, because at least we can have a rational yet possibly at times heated discussion on the topics at hand, as opposed to this constant endless spam of thread after thread of some guy crying that CCP is an evil empire bent on world domination.


@Ragers
Give it a rest. CCP is a company, they make mistakes, we let them know, maybe they make less in the future, maybe not. And endless forum rage is very tiresome and ineffectual, if anything it will merely result in either more strict moderation, or less, in which case we all suffer equally.

Pitchforks never solved anything, there is only one end result from an angry mob with a pitchfork, there is no reason behind it, it is an angry mob by definition.

Razin
The xDEATHx Squadron
Legion of xXDEATHXx
Posted - 2011.09.01 20:27:00 - [165]
 

Originally by: Mendolus


+1

I may be farther on the other side of the defense in this whole Incarna debacle, but I still know that Incarna has fallen far short of the mark that most of us have eagerly expected for years now, and the fact that we have now had more than a year of PvE or WiS related content and few actual spaceship related changes in their entirety is of course, rather unsettling.

But I am cautiously optimistic that given CCP's precedent concerning expansions, and what they have and have not released in the past year or two, that at the very least, we are bound to get some sort of spaceship related expansion this winter.

Since CCP claims they are going to be releasing changes to null, supercapitals, and black ops in the Winter Expansion, I can only assume this means they might also look at and tweak many other combat mechanic related mechanics that have been issues for a long while now.

I would rather have a forum full of Tippia's and Suitonia's whether I always agree with them or not, or how often I agree with them or not, because at least we can have a rational yet possibly at times heated discussion on the topics at hand, as opposed to this constant endless spam of thread after thread of some guy crying that CCP is an evil empire bent on world domination.


@Ragers
Give it a rest. CCP is a company, they make mistakes, we let them know, maybe they make less in the future, maybe not. And endless forum rage is very tiresome and ineffectual, if anything it will merely result in either more strict moderation, or less, in which case we all suffer equally.

Pitchforks never solved anything, there is only one end result from an angry mob with a pitchfork, there is no reason behind it, it is an angry mob by definition.

I noticed how in your relatively verbose narration you've done your usual brown-nosing and misrepresenting while managing to completely avoid the subject matter of this thread. Nice!

Sullen Skoung
Posted - 2011.09.01 20:28:00 - [166]
 

Originally by: Razin

I noticed how in your relatively verbose narration you've done your usual brown-nosing and misrepresenting while managing to completely avoid the subject matter of this thread. Nice!


lol you wanna see that, go here

RAW23
Posted - 2011.09.01 20:32:00 - [167]
 

Originally by: Mendolus

Pitchforks never solved anything


They are good for ratting.

Mendolus
Aurelius Federation
Posted - 2011.09.01 20:33:00 - [168]
 

Edited by: Mendolus on 01/09/2011 20:33:29
Originally by: Razin
...


Oh yea, I'm a brown noser alright, that's why I was not even subbed for eight months of the last two years because I was tired of Dominion after six months and with no end in sight to the lag I wanted a break from 0.0 cuz it was unpleasant and I was tired of it and I then subsequently got bored in high security.

Yep, I'm a real CCP fan alright, you got me!

Elyssa MacLeod
Posted - 2011.09.01 20:35:00 - [169]
 

Originally by: Mendolus
Edited by: Mendolus on 01/09/2011 20:33:29
Originally by: Razin
...


Oh yea, I'm a brown noser alright, that's why I was not even subbed for eight months of the last two years because I was tired of Dominion after six months and with no end in sight to the lag I wanted a break from 0.0 cuz it was unpleasant and I was tired of it and I then subsequently got bored in high security.

Yep, I'm a real CCP fan alright, you got me!


lol a whole 8 of 24? You rebel you

Mendolus
Aurelius Federation
Posted - 2011.09.01 20:44:00 - [170]
 

Originally by: Elyssa MacLeod
Originally by: Mendolus
Edited by: Mendolus on 01/09/2011 20:33:29
Originally by: Razin
...


Oh yea, I'm a brown noser alright, that's why I was not even subbed for eight months of the last two years because I was tired of Dominion after six months and with no end in sight to the lag I wanted a break from 0.0 cuz it was unpleasant and I was tired of it and I then subsequently got bored in high security.

Yep, I'm a real CCP fan alright, you got me!


lol a whole 8 of 24? You rebel you


ROFL yea, I was real tough about it, sure showed CCP didn't I? Laughing

Nah honestly tho, that was only part of it, I just needed a break from the game itself, Dominion was my reason, something I could actually be legitimately disgruntled over, etc.

Razin
The xDEATHx Squadron
Legion of xXDEATHXx
Posted - 2011.09.01 20:45:00 - [171]
 

Edited by: Razin on 01/09/2011 20:46:56
Originally by: Mendolus
Edited by: Mendolus on 01/09/2011 20:33:29
Originally by: Razin
...


Oh yea, I'm a brown noser alright, that's why I was not even subbed for eight months of the last two years because I was tired of Dominion after six months and with no end in sight to the lag I wanted a break from 0.0 cuz it was unpleasant and I was tired of it and I then subsequently got bored in high security.

Yep, I'm a real CCP fan alright, you got me!

These are just words here, I have no way to check their veracity (even if any of it was relevant to this discussion). I can, however, see your posting history. And it is quite revealing, if a little too much.

Sullen Skoung
Posted - 2011.09.01 20:47:00 - [172]
 

Originally by: Mendolus


Nah honestly tho, that was only part of it, I just needed a break from the game itself, Dominion was my reason, something I could actually be legitimately disgruntled over, etc.


I think that was my first time I took a break, when you warp into a lvl 4, and by the time you log onto the grid you are in a pod.
I got the battleship I was using recompensensed every time but it made it unplayable

Roime
Gallente
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
Posted - 2011.09.01 21:59:00 - [173]
 

Originally by: Bklyn 1
Originally by: Roime
Ok I understand The Door is not exactly an improvement on the esthetics front, the ship was many times better, but can you list what functionality has been lost?




To me at least, there does not appear to be any functionality in the cq that I cannot do more quickly and efficiently with a mere click of a mouse in the door view. In my view, cq is a step down from the door view. It's slower, unappealing and my computer seems to dislike it almost as much as I do.

It's not that I want ship spinning per se, it's just that the old hangar was better than what the cq has to offer. I understand that some people like to see a 2005 era graphics toon constantly scratching himself. But that just doesn't do it for me.


Ah I should have been more specific- I meant the difference between old hangar and the Door. I tried CQ once and my toon got stuck in a corner, I disabled it. I'm playing on a 2008 MBP and it wasn't super fluid either.

Besided now having the Door, instead of the Spinning Ship, covered by windows I'm not aware of any lost functionality.

That said, I like the idea of CQ and even have an alt especially designed for meat spinning purposes, maybe some day it is fully realized and by that I might even have a real game computer :P


Mendolus
Aurelius Federation
Posted - 2011.09.01 22:01:00 - [174]
 

Originally by: Razin
Edited by: Razin on 01/09/2011 20:46:56
Originally by: Mendolus
Edited by: Mendolus on 01/09/2011 20:33:29
Originally by: Razin
...


Oh yea, I'm a brown noser alright, that's why I was not even subbed for eight months of the last two years because I was tired of Dominion after six months and with no end in sight to the lag I wanted a break from 0.0 cuz it was unpleasant and I was tired of it and I then subsequently got bored in high security.

Yep, I'm a real CCP fan alright, you got me!

These are just words here, I have no way to check their veracity (even if any of it was relevant to this discussion). I can, however, see your posting history. And it is quite revealing, if a little too much.


So you are saying, you don't know, yet you DO know?

A real conundrum we find ourselves in, Laughing

Kusanagi Kasuga
Posted - 2011.09.01 22:04:00 - [175]
 

But guys - you're not seeing what's *really* important here.

Dust and WoD are progressing marvelously :D

Sidus Isaacs
Gallente
Posted - 2011.09.01 22:10:00 - [176]
 

Originally by: pussnheels
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Prince Spiderman
There will be no exodus. Just a major playerbase cleanup to remove kids, nerds and whiners not really playing EVE on a "serious" level because if they would play what the game really offers they don't care about ship spinning or an optional NeX store.
Quite incorrect. It's people who play at a "serious level" that need ship spinning the most, because the CQ gets in the way of actual gameplay.

You do understand that “ship spinning” refers to functionality and light-weight mechanics, not to the ability to turn your ship around, right?

That is uther bull****




Tippia is quite correct actually. Incarna, in its current implementation, is a hassle. It is wasting precious seconds loading and slowing down the interface that I need to use to get a ship ready quickly.

Not to mention the bad lag that occurs hwen it is active, despite having a farily solid computer. FPS in space: 100, FPS in station: 20...

Ghoest
Posted - 2011.09.01 22:13:00 - [177]
 

Edited by: Ghoest on 01/09/2011 22:19:50
Does everyone agree with me now that Mitani is more or less a sucker that will believe anything if you treat him like hes important?

Headerman
Minmatar
Quovis
Shadow of xXDEATHXx
Posted - 2011.09.01 22:21:00 - [178]
 

Jesus ****ing christ you all must be English or something cause your bloody useless whinging is epic!

Esan Vartesa
East Khanid Trading
Khanid Trade Syndicate
Posted - 2011.09.01 22:25:00 - [179]
 

Originally by: Ghoest
Edited by: Ghoest on 01/09/2011 22:19:50
Does everyone agree with me now that Mitani is more or less a sucker that will believe anything if you treat him like hes important?


No. From what I've seen, it's exceptionally likely that he's on the payroll.


Elyssa MacLeod
Posted - 2011.09.01 22:26:00 - [180]
 

Originally by: Headerman
Jesus ****ing christ you all must be English or something cause your bloody useless whinging is epic!


im rubber youre a hippocrite...


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