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Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.09.01 16:42:00 - [121]
 

Originally by: Forum Worrier
So basically the complaint is that CCP is forcing you to use the station environment in which you can just as easily accomplish everything as you could in the hangar environment? Check.
So basically, your handler has lost his glasses and can't read things properly to you, and without him, your inability to read prevents you from making sensible comments. Check
Quote:
Complaining about losing the ability to right click your ship in hangar when there was already faster and more efficient ways to perform the same functions? Check.
Since those supposed ways are not faster, no check.
Quote:
Complaining about losing the ability to spin your ship when it now spins for you automatically or you can spin it in fitting or ship preview? Check.
Since there is no ship to spin in the majority of views and since it requires more clutter on the scree, no check.
Quote:
Complaining about the half a second longer it takes to load CQ as opposed to hangar? Check.
Since the complaint is about having to load the CQ at all, no check.
Quote:
Complaining about nothing much at all? Check.
Dreaming up straw men just to claim that people are complaining. Check.
Quote:
Complaining about change? Check.
More straw men. Check.

Congratulations. Everything you wrote in your post was pure bilge, purely invented by you and with exactly zero connection to reality. Would you like to join the actual conversation now, or do you want to fire your incompetent handler first?

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.09.01 16:45:00 - [122]
 

Edited by: Tippia on 01/09/2011 16:48:38
Originally by: Quebber
Originally by: Dee Luxx
I'd like to apologize beforehand because this is a bit of a rant and I am not on your hate wagon. [etc]
I agree with the above poster completely
Just one problem: the “above poster” is completely uninformed about the nature of the complaint. You're agreeing with ignorance. Are you sure you really want to do this?
Originally by: Denidil
i have experienced zero loss of functionality and zero inconvenience from the CQ. maybe you're just a whiny *****.
Or maybe you're simply very inefficient in how you play EVE, since the loss of shortcuts and immediacy has no consequence for you.

Suitonia
Gallente
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2011.09.01 16:47:00 - [123]
 

Originally by: Roime
Edited by: Roime on 01/09/2011 16:37:56
FFS just turn off the CQ and open your ships panel

Besides seeing what ship is currently active and having r-click access (or just doubleclick to open any cargo bay) to all your ships, you can actually have several other windows open without them blocking access to the ship in the background.

Much more efficient than what I used to do in the old hangar view, but ymmv.



Of course people are going to complain when they lose features, shortcuts and graphics, especially when we're told we can't have those features back with no real explanation as to why except a vague one-liner after being stonewalled in silence for 2 months awaiting their answer.

It's not so much their decision it's the way they have handled it.

I wouldn't mind nearly as much if they gave an explanation that isn't a one liner that ends up causing even more player frustration and confusion.

Razin
The xDEATHx Squadron
Legion of xXDEATHXx
Posted - 2011.09.01 16:52:00 - [124]
 

Originally by: Suitonia

I wouldn't mind nearly as much if they gave an explanation that isn't a one liner that ends up causing even more player frustration and confusion.

Well, in light of the fact that longer explanations have been given by CCP management, I'd like to add that weak rationalizations however verbose will be unacceptable as well.

baltec1
Posted - 2011.09.01 16:54:00 - [125]
 

Originally by: Tippia

Originally by: Denidil
i have experienced zero loss of functionality and zero inconvenience from the CQ. maybe you're just a whiny *****.
Or maybe you're simply very inefficient in how you play EVE, since the loss of shortcuts and immediacy has no consequence for you.



No I agree with him. I haven't suffered at all from these changes. The only complaint I have is that I would like to see a much easyer way to play around with the TV.

Suitonia
Gallente
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2011.09.01 16:57:00 - [126]
 

If CCP removed missions from Empire I wouldn't suffer. So its ok.

Denidil
Gallente
The Graduates
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2011.09.01 16:58:00 - [127]
 

Originally by: Tippia
Edited by: Tippia on 01/09/2011 16:48:38
Originally by: Quebber
Originally by: Dee Luxx
I'd like to apologize beforehand because this is a bit of a rant and I am not on your hate wagon. [etc]
I agree with the above poster completely
Just one problem: the “above poster” is completely uninformed about the nature of the complaint. You're agreeing with ignorance. Are you sure you really want to do this?
Originally by: Denidil
i have experienced zero loss of functionality and zero inconvenience from the CQ. maybe you're just a whiny *****.
Or maybe you're simply very inefficient in how you play EVE, since the loss of shortcuts and immediacy has no consequence for you.



dock
open ships window via neocom button on left
right click target ship and make active
undock


Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.09.01 16:58:00 - [128]
 

Edited by: Tippia on 01/09/2011 16:59:08
Originally by: baltec1
No I agree with him. I haven't suffered at all from these changes. The only complaint I have is that I would like to see a much easyer way to play around with the TV.
…the “being inefficient” comment stands.
Originally by: Denidil
dock
open ships window via neocom button on left
…workaround that does not offer the full functionality.
Quote:
right click target ship and make active
…workaround that takes longer than the old version.


Thank you for proving my point.

Denidil
Gallente
The Graduates
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2011.09.01 17:02:00 - [129]
 

tippia.. you realize there is this thing called the session timer. and it must be obeyed. my string of commands will be completed long before your session timer is up

both version are faster than the game will let you dock and undock. so speedwise there is no difference.

you're just whining about change.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.09.01 17:07:00 - [130]
 

Originally by: Denidil
tippia.. you realize there is this thing called the session timer.
And you realise that you can do other things in the meantime, right? The less time you have to spend wrestling with the UI (or, for that matter, waiting for pointless junk to be shuffled onto the gfx card) to make things appear that should be (and were) immediately available, the more you can get done in those 30s.
Quote:
you're just whining about change.
So if CCP automatically transferred all your assets to my hangar and wallet, you would be ok with that, because you like change. Good to know. I'll go petition for that to happen right away. Rolling Eyes

No. I'm opposing the illogical, needless and pointless removal of functions, features and options in a game whose core concept is for players to create their own gameplay experience.

Cipher Jones
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.09.01 17:09:00 - [131]
 

Quote:
Thank you for proving my point.


Thank you for continuing to subscribe and post, thereby proving my point.

baltec1
Posted - 2011.09.01 17:10:00 - [132]
 

Originally by: Tippia
Edited by: Tippia on 01/09/2011 16:59:08
Originally by: baltec1
No I agree with him. I haven't suffered at all from these changes. The only complaint I have is that I would like to see a much easyer way to play around with the TV.
…the “being inefficient” comment stands.



Its a whole second or two. Hardly much of an impact.

Denidil
Gallente
The Graduates
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2011.09.01 17:13:00 - [133]
 

Originally by: Tippia

No. I'm opposing the illogical, needless and pointless removal of functions, features and options in a game whose core concept is for players to create their own gameplay experience.


yeah, because taking my stuff and giving it to you is EXACTLY the same as a minor change to the UI

EXACTLY THE SAME Rolling EyesLaughing

logic, not your strong suit.


Mendolus
Aurelius Federation
Posted - 2011.09.01 17:13:00 - [134]
 

Edited by: Mendolus on 01/09/2011 17:15:19


I wonder, for every hour someone spends posting on these forums about how they lost functionality with the new station environment, they have already used up a year or two worth of the extra time it may take them now than it would have before.

Reminds me of those people on the way to work who just have to be in front of me by a car's length at all costs, even if they have to risk life and limb to weave in and out of traffic dodging bumpers by inches, when it only gets them to work a few seconds faster. They have this notion that the principle of the matter is all that is of any concern and absolutely no practical reasoning must apply.

The problem remains, if you miss functionality, petition it, and move on, if it gets fixed it gets fixed.
Spending even an hour a day here posting about it, you have already lost all the time you would have saved with the old functionality as opposed to the new.

Getting to work a few seconds faster, lets you what... type an extra word into a document that day?
Spending an hour on the forums complaining about shaving milliseconds or single clicks off of features in the game saves you what... you already just spent all the time you are worried about, on these forums complaining about the time you do want to save.

If they had added half a dozen clicks to the station environment sure, like when PI first came out, but they added one extra step, and that is only if you do not have CQ loaded.

You have to hit a hotkey to display your ship window, to note what ship you are presently using if you are not using the CQ which is intended for use by all players. Oh noz, hotkeys!
You can hit a hotkey (a singleton if you prefer) to open your cargo bay too, whereas it takes a double click with the old hangar view and your ship in said hangar.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.09.01 17:16:00 - [135]
 

Edited by: Tippia on 01/09/2011 17:17:18
Originally by: baltec1
Its a whole second or two. Hardly much of an impact.
…I'm talking about your fiddling with the TV — inefficiency at its best.
Originally by: Denidil
logic, not your strong suit.
It's called hyperbole, or, really, reductio ad absurdum. People like to throw around the whole “resistance to change” nonsense because they have a hard time arguing for the removal of useful features. If you really want to use that logic, stand by it and explain why resisting change is in any way an argument. Otherwise, ditch the moronic platitudes.


baltec1
Posted - 2011.09.01 17:19:00 - [136]
 

Originally by: Tippia
Edited by: Tippia on 01/09/2011 17:17:18
Originally by: baltec1
Its a whole second or two. Hardly much of an impact.
…I'm talking about your fiddling with the TV — inefficiency at its best.




I might as well watch my ponies while trading in jita. At least I stay tabbed in thenLaughing

Denidil
Gallente
The Graduates
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2011.09.01 17:20:00 - [137]
 

Originally by: Tippia
Edited by: Tippia on 01/09/2011 17:17:18
Originally by: baltec1
Its a whole second or two. Hardly much of an impact.
…I'm talking about your fiddling with the TV — inefficiency at its best.
Originally by: Denidil
logic, not your strong suit.
It's called hyperbole, or, really, reductio ad absurdum. People like to throw around the whole “resistance to change” nonsense because they have a hard time arguing for the removal of useful features. If you really want to use that logic, stand by it and explain why resisting change is in any way an argument. Otherwise, ditch the moronic platitudes.




for it to be reductio ad absurdium then "changing the UI" would have to be a superset of "takin your **** and giving it to someone else". which it isn't.

the change in UI has no meaningful affect on gameplay, and only an obsessive-compulsive would care. being that a lot of people who had to reship fast (0.0 warfare) never noticed the "missing functionality" you're *****ing about - it really doesn't matter.

why are you so butthurt about a minor UI change that MAKES NO ****ING DIFFERENCE.

Sullen Skoung
Posted - 2011.09.01 17:28:00 - [138]
 

Edited by: Sullen Skoung on 01/09/2011 17:33:30
Edited by: Sullen Skoung on 01/09/2011 17:29:24
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Sonva Lat
Originally by: Vice Admiral Spreadsheet
OP, CCP have always been adamant in not returning the old hangar view.
They used to be adamant that all the WiS stuff would be completely optional and you would never have to leave your ship if you didn't want to.
They were also adamant that we would never see our ships in WIS because it would be too big a technical hurdle.

In other words, “adamant” in CCP terms equates roughly to “looser and more flexible than mashed bananas.”


Theyre pretty adamant theyre not gonna put in gold ammo an non vanity items too

yeah....

Originally by: Prince Spiderman
WTB your problems. where ship spinning is 0.00000000001% important for the gameplay.


yeah cause WiS is SOOOOOOOOOOO important to Spaceship pew pew

Originally by: Brooks Puuntai
Pro tip.

Theres no arguing with Tippia. It only ends badly trust me.


lol when you cant win insult the person debating

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.09.01 17:32:00 - [139]
 

Originally by: Denidil
for it to be reductio ad absurdium then "changing the UI" would have to be a superset of "takin your **** and giving it to someone else". which it isn't.
No, it follows the “people are complaining because of resistance to change” logic to its conclusion.
Quote:
the change in UI has no meaningful affect on gameplay
…aside from not making old shortcuts and visual cues work any more. Your choice not to use these features is not relevant for determining whether they are meaningful or not — your non-choice is not generalisable.
Quote:
why are you so butthurt about a minor UI change that MAKES NO ****ING DIFFERENCE.
Why are you butthurt about the fact that it makes a difference and that people are saying so? Again, if it doesn't hurt you, good for you — who cares? That just means you have nothing useful to add to the discussion.

So why do you whine so much? Why are you so threatened by people voicing their concern and annoyance with the loss of functionality they're using?

Ciar Meara
Amarr
Virtus Vindice
Posted - 2011.09.01 17:35:00 - [140]
 

Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Just to be clear, I never said you woudln't get ship spinning back, I said there wouldn't be an old hangar view.


also... MAGIC (ppl watching arrested development will get this)

Information Agent
Posted - 2011.09.01 17:37:00 - [141]
 

Originally by: Denidil
being that a lot of people who had to reship fast (0.0 warfare) never noticed the "missing functionality" you're *****ing about


Actually, my main who was in 0.0 when incarna rolled out noticed the missing functionality in cq right after the missing fittings, missing frames per second, missing lack of lag, then the missing fleet that was trying to grapple with walking their apparently diarreah stricken avatars as they made their shambling way towards what looked like a glowing interface that promptly put them into planet view right while they were scrabbling with the floaty buttons for their fitting service/hanger/items etc.

Goes without saying that we missed a roaming gang while waiting for everyone to sort their stuff out. So, hardly minor at least from my fleets perspective. Laughing

Sullen Skoung
Posted - 2011.09.01 17:38:00 - [142]
 

Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Denidil
tippia.. you realize there is this thing called the session timer.
And you realise that you can do other things in the meantime, right? The less time you have to spend wrestling with the UI (or, for that matter, waiting for pointless junk to be shuffled onto the gfx card) to make things appear that should be (and were) immediately available, the more you can get done in those 30s.
Quote:
you're just whining about change.
So if CCP automatically transferred all your assets to my hangar and wallet, you would be ok with that, because you like change. Good to know. I'll go petition for that to happen right away. Rolling Eyes

No. I'm opposing the illogical, needless and pointless removal of functions, features and options in a game whose core concept is for players to create their own gameplay experience.


lol tippia this thread is full of win and ppl that dont care about what CCP does. The old buzzword was "entitlement" looks like the new phrase is "Arguing against change" cause I see every other person spouting it. Its almost used as often as the troll label. And why? Cause CCP said it. and they know best
sig:

Denidil
Gallente
The Graduates
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2011.09.01 17:40:00 - [143]
 

Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Denidil
for it to be reductio ad absurdium then "changing the UI" would have to be a superset of "takin your **** and giving it to someone else". which it isn't.
No, it follows the “people are complaining because of resistance to change” logic to its conclusion.


no it doesn't. because "Taking your **** and giving it to someone else" is not analogous to a cosmetic change in the user interface.


on the other hand your pitching a fit because you're asked to make the slightest adaptation to the UI is a resistance to change.

the only person here whining is you. I'm simply sick of people who are *****ing for no good reason, like you.

if you want to see a legitimate complaint about things CCP is doing go read my thread about their apparent lack of CTQ.

Cipher Jones
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.09.01 17:53:00 - [144]
 

Quote:
Why are you butthurt about the fact that it makes a difference and that people are saying so? Again, if it doesn't hurt you, good for you — who cares? That just means you have nothing useful to add to the discussion.


I can't answer for them, but I can answer for myself and assume that people of a similar frame of reference will understand.

For every change I have ever seen come to Eve, I have seen it debated on the forums. I have never once seen a one sided debate.

Only the side that looses complains.


Ingvar Angst
Amarr
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
Talocan United
Posted - 2011.09.01 17:56:00 - [145]
 

Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Just to be clear, I never said you woudln't get ship spinning back, I said there wouldn't be an old hangar view.


You know... I live in a wormhole, don't visit stations very often. But when I do, I prefer Dos Equis.

Seriously, though, for the most part it's load, move items, buy, sell, go. Rarely if ever take a single step. The only thing missing, though, is seeing my ship right there in front of me, reaching up with the mouse and giving it a spin. Especially a newly purchased one... something you buy for the very first time. You look at it from all angles, top, bottom, close up, spin it around again... then off to the hole.

I have to admit... I miss the old hangar view.

Roime
Gallente
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
Posted - 2011.09.01 17:58:00 - [146]
 

Ok I understand The Door is not exactly an improvement on the esthetics front, the ship was many times better, but can you list what functionality has been lost?


Ingvar Angst
Amarr
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
Talocan United
Posted - 2011.09.01 18:11:00 - [147]
 

Originally by: Roime
Ok I understand The Door is not exactly an improvement on the esthetics front, the ship was many times better, but can you list what functionality has been lost?



I reach up and spin the ship around a few times, getting a good look before heading back to the wormhole.

That would be enough... when we dock in station, simply have us facing the ship, and allow us to reach up and give her a spin. See her from all angles again.

Pablo Amadeus Zekairra
Caldari
State War Academy
Posted - 2011.09.01 18:27:00 - [148]
 

Originally by: Tea Leaves
Edited by: Tea Leaves on 01/09/2011 08:55:53
per the PAX

Unknown Submitter> A large number of EVE players do not like to leave their ship every time they dock. Some have computer hardware issues running several clients, some find it extremely immersion breaking and completely against EVE lore, and some would just rather abstain from Incarna alltogether. The return of the old ship hanger or some version of it with a disembark button would make all those people happy. When does CCP plan to do it?

Response> No, we don't have any plans for that. Incarna is essentially an addition that is central to the future of EVE.



MAC client crashes and glitches like a crack head on fresh crack...
rest of the EvE addicts are all happy go lucky cause they get to play their half game on low graphics.

not me.

I run HIGH on EvE cause the COMP can hold an extended clip from iron sight to barrel.
MAC is teh future side arm for robot cop and for one wont pay for glitchy products.

EvE online get your sh*t together at once.

and if not...
You better give me muh money.


Judge Ment
BOOM BOOM POW
Posted - 2011.09.01 18:37:00 - [149]
 

Space ship Barbies dolls / AUR Big business for CPP. For those who haven't seen increase in ISK for PLEX don't really get the bigger picture. Now that you can trade PLEX for AUR, there just isn't enough isk to go around. This is a ISK sink and you all should be happy

Foofad
Gallente
Posted - 2011.09.01 18:41:00 - [150]
 

I really hate it when people speak for "the player base," as if they had any idea what each individual really wanted or liked in a feature. For my part, I love CQ. I love the contrast of just being a person for a little while against being a space battleship when out and about. I love the additional immersion, the bright screens in the room, the holograms, the mirror, being able to walk out to the balcony and look at my ship from afar. It's ****ing cool, and I can't wait to see what they do with it.

So in summary, stop saying "the player base" hates Incarna. Because I sure don't, and nor do I miss ship spinning and the old hangar interface.


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