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blankseplocked Which Black Ops? A problem
 
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Sgiliy
Posted - 2011.09.01 03:53:00 - [1]
 

Hey all- I find myself preparing to skill up to a black ops ship. However I am having a problem with decided which to train up. Yes i know most of you will tell me it's pointless, and yes I know they are expensive ext ext- but i am asking the forum what they think of my logic, and which of the 4 is the best choice for what I am looking for.

To start:

Black ops are best used with a squadron of recons and stealth bombers on the wing. To me a black ops is simply the king logi of the black ops fleets. When you are dealing with a black ops fleet the figs provide DPS while the cruisers and BS class should provide EWAR and support to ensure the frigs survive. This is backwards to your standard fleet- so becuase of this I have 0 interest in DPS for my black ops.

To this end I originally thought of a widow. With the fit I have:

Widow
[Widow, Widow fit]

Cruise Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Paradise Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Paradise Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Paradise Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Paradise Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Paradise Cruise Missile
Improved Cloaking Device II
Covert Jump Portal Generator I

Shadow Serpentis Sensor Booster, Scan Resolution
ECM - Spatial Destabilizer II
ECM - Phase Inverter II
ECM - Phase Inverter II
ECM - Ion Field Projector II
ECM - Ion Field Projector II
ECM - White Noise Generator II
ECM - White Noise Generator II

Signal Distortion Amplifier II
Signal Distortion Amplifier II
Signal Distortion Amplifier II
Signal Distortion Amplifier II

Large Particle Dispersion Augmentor I
Large Particle Dispersion Augmentor I


Wasp EC-900 x1

With this fit I can get a jam strength of 17.7 on each of my racial jammers. In short- anything with a sig strength less than 22 is going to be perma jammed with me using only a single jammer. This works great for supporting bombers, as any ship that would ever pose a threat to them- i can jam back to the stone age.

However the problem with this fit is of course tank. A single enemy bomber (with good skills) could drop my widow in 5/6 volleys. This is a bit scary for me, as the ship is by no means cheap.

The widow was the first option. The second is the Sin.

Sin
[Sin, Sin fit]

Drone Link Augmentor I
Drone Link Augmentor I
Drone Link Augmentor I
Drone Link Augmentor I
Drone Link Augmentor I
Improved 'Guise' Cloaking Device II
Covert Jump Portal Generator I

Omnidirectional Tracking Link I
Gist B-Type 100MN MicroWarpdrive
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 400
Shadow Serpentis Sensor Booster, Scan Resolution
Shadow Serpentis Sensor Booster
Omnidirectional Tracking Link I

Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Damage Control II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Regenerative Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II

Large Sentry Damage Augmentor II
Large Drone Scope Chip II


Garde II x4
Bouncer II x5
Warrior II x5
Hammerhead II x5
Ogre II x3
Curator II x1
Warden II x1

This fit is simply to provide excellent drone sniping, and drone support. Basically this fit again is used to support the bombers, by using sentries to obliterate anything that would cause a problem. It has alot more EHP than the widow, however I almost feel that becuase it lacks any types of ewar I feel that perhaps the widow could do a better job of protecting the bombers. your thoughts?

Last I have the Panther- which I have turned into a pseudo mach. Again the point of this fit is to use the mobility and speed of the panther (1543 m/s with 7.96 agility) to ensure that my terrible tracking guns can snipe cruisers / frigs and again ensure the safety of my bombers.

Continued in next Post

Sgiliy
Posted - 2011.09.01 03:56:00 - [2]
 

Panther fit

Panther

[Panther, Panther fit]

800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma L
Improved Cloaking Device II
Covert Jump Portal Generator I
Heavy Unstable Power Fluctuator I

Gist B-Type 100MN MicroWarpdrive
Invulnerability Field II
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Shadow Serpentis Sensor Booster, Scan Resolution
Tracking Computer II

Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Damage Control II
Power Diagnostic System II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II

Large Low Friction Nozzle Joints II
Large Core Defence Field Extender II


Warrior II x5


I don't plan on listing the redeemer as it has no use to me. I don't need more DPS in my gang, I need something that can keep it alive. I plan to bring my BLOPS to the front lines and fight with them- and I am certainly not going to sit cloaked in a safe all day lol

So in the end I ask you, which of the BLOPS is going to provide the best logi / support for my bombers? I need to ensure that frigs / cruiser (the two targets bombers have the hardest time with) are dealt with appropriately. Thanks for reading, and thanks for your help!

Nezumiiro Noneko
Posted - 2011.09.01 07:30:00 - [3]
 

so you aren't trusting your bombers with the sin and panther...but are with the widow?


You tanked 2 of these but left widow naked? Who needs it the most. Big em hole...well not hole, the resist is not there in any way shape or form. Straight shot to your armour which ain't great. then lol hull. the scorpion armour tank not omfg great...but will keep this alive a bit. tank by ecm doesn't save falcons if the numbers there or enemy gets that lucky break....wish you luck with this.

I am assuming jsut posting ecm to show it fits, or hoping anyway. 1 caldari jam and 2 gallente....if anything should be other way around (although I have been away...has brutix train replaced drake train, cool if gallente gets the fan boys now) . Hell run a multipsec or 2 for the gallente, gives better chance against the 3 races you will see more most likely.

Maisonian
Amarr
The Green Machine
Posted - 2011.09.01 11:32:00 - [4]
 

I saw a fit similar to this a while back and at first glance thought it was madness. In practice, its actually a stroke of genius if you're either solo or one of only a few Blackops bridging over:

[Sin, Wait are you srs?]
Damage Control II
True Sansha Power Diagnostic System
True Sansha Power Diagnostic System
True Sansha Power Diagnostic System
True Sansha Power Diagnostic System
True Sansha Reactor Control Unit

100MN MicroWarpdrive II
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 800
Caldari Navy Large Shield Booster
Shield Boost Amplifier II
Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field
Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field

Heavy Energy Neutralizer II
Heavy Energy Neutralizer II
Heavy Energy Neutralizer II
Heavy Energy Neutralizer II
Heavy Energy Neutralizer II
Covert Jump Portal Generator I
Caldari Navy Cloaking Device

Large Egress Port Maximizer I
Large Egress Port Maximizer I


Ogre II x5
Garde II x5
Valkyrie II x5
Warrior II x5
Vespa EC-600 x5
Light Armor Maintenance Bot II x5

The thing that stood out for me was that it actually makes full use of the ship's agility bonus; alignment time is roughloy the same for a BC as well as having a semi-decent top speed for a BS class vessesl. Ogres or sentries to apply DPS around the 4-500 mark and a full rack of very damaging neuts to destabalise the tank of anything unlucky enough to be caught out. If you're feeling cheap, you can even go with Meta 4/T2 and get a similar effect:

[Sin, El' Cheapo]
Damage Control II
Power Diagnostic System II
Power Diagnostic System II
Power Diagnostic System II
Power Diagnostic System II
Reactor Control Unit II

100MN MicroWarpdrive II
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 800
Large Shield Booster II
Shield Boost Amplifier II
Invulnerability Field II
Invulnerability Field II

Heavy Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Heavy Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Heavy Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Heavy Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Heavy Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Covert Jump Portal Generator I
Improved Cloaking Device II

Large Egress Port Maximizer I
Large Egress Port Maximizer I


Ogre II x5
Garde II x5
Valkyrie II x5
Warrior II x5
Vespa EC-600 x5
Light Armor Maintenance Bot II x5


Sgiliy
Posted - 2011.09.01 15:16:00 - [5]
 

Hey thanks for the help so far guys. I am tinkering with that pure neut sin fit- seems interesting. with faction neuts you can get out to about 30K which is pretty nice

E man Industries
Posted - 2011.09.01 16:12:00 - [6]
 

most black ops I see do not see combat.

they jump to system and safe up while the bombers and other ships play. then we warp and they take us back. To much isk floating around without the proper support and it will be primary.

I'd ECCM it while maintaing as much tank as you can, fit nos in high's. bassicaly if you get jumped, jam and nos till you can gtfo.

James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2011.09.01 18:47:00 - [7]
 

Edited by: James Lyrus on 01/09/2011 18:49:29
The simple truth is that a blackops costs near as much as a carrier. It's not even as tough as a 'normal' BS, and firepower wise, it doesn't really compare particularly well with a stealth bomber.

Add to that that bridging in bombers, prohibits jumping for 30s, and the net result is that you don't see many blobs 'committing' on the field of battle.

So you don't see many 'combat' fits for them either, for the same reason - because of jumping, locking delays with their really bad scan res ... they're only 'adding' to a fight, that's already a sure thing anyway.

The one use - barring a mobile jump bridge - I can think of, which I'd love to see a blobs strike force used for, is the 30s hit and fade.

THe notion being that you gear up several blackops for maximum DPS at 45km.
Ideally, 10x scorch-pulse laser redeemers.

The fight is 'picked' by an Arazu, that points and damps the target at said 45km range. The blobs jump in, run cap boosters and slam the target, with a notion of being ready to jump out again the instant the recalibration delay is up to an exit cyno.

Which means, practically speaking, you've made your kill and are gone again before the hornets nest you've just kicked has - thanks to session change timers on the other side - been able to respond.

And because you're arriving at 40odd from the target, your exposure to 'counter' tactics is limited - burning to 40km is doable for a fast ship, but it's really not _that_ easy to pull off in such a tight time frame, and you really do have to be on the ball, and in the right place.

That - and when you're limited enough in numbers that going from 600dps of bomber, to 900dps of blackops is significant - is the only scenarios I can really 'see' them taking the field.
Otherwise they're just ... well, pimp shinys. Impressive, but not cost effective.

Don't bother with your original plan of using them as a support ship - they lock far too slowly to make any real difference, when you're taking the field along side 600dps bombers, very nearly as good jamming from Falcons, and dual webbing and painting rapiers.

You simply won't lock a smaller target in a sensible amount of time, and you won't make enough of a difference to a larger target, which'll be having a hard time hitting your bombers anyway.

Guillame Herschel
Gallente
NME1
Posted - 2011.09.01 22:24:00 - [8]
 

With max skills and a cloak, the Widow's scan res is a pitiful 94mm. It takes over 10 seconds to lock another battleship.

It is useless as an ECM platform.


 

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