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blankseplocked Implementing Advanced Defender Missiles
 
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Vin Hellsing
Posted - 2011.09.01 02:49:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Vin Hellsing on 01/09/2011 03:06:36
Well, this is a post I'm doing to expand on the idea I suggested to CCP Soundwave during PAX Prime. In its present iteration, Defender Missiles are only for self-defense and are not effective in fleet warfare.

So I got to thinking - Since we have blobs and gang warfare going on, why don't we devise Advanced Defender Missiles? We don't have to mess with the original Defender Missiles(and as a result, NPC programming will not be altered), and these systems can be used on ships to defend an entire fleet. Here are the Defender Missile types I have in mind...

Advanced Defender Missile Types

Hydra Defender Missile

  • Requires Hydra Missile Launcher.

  • A single missile that splits into multiple homing warheads.

  • Each warhead has low DPS. Effective against Heavy Assault Missiles and under.

  • Requires at least 3 to 5 Hydra warhead hits on a Torpedo to destroy it.

  • Excellent for reducing overwhelming missile threats.

  • Acts against an enemy warhead targeting any fleet member.

  • Can not be loaded alongside Gorgon Defender Missiles.


The Hydra Defender Missile is a "cluster" munition that, when fired, splits off in mid-flight to form a swarm of smaller missiles that will home in on any hostile missile threat to the capsuleer's fleet. This is good for medium to large-sized fleet and gang warfare where missiles are the weapon du jour.


Gorgon Defender Missile

  • Requires Gorgon Missile Launcher.

  • A single missile with a high damage output.

  • Effective against Cruise Missiles and Torpedoes.

  • Long refire rate.

  • Excellent for reducing specific threats

  • Acts against an enemy warhead targeting any fleet member.

  • Slow flight speed.

  • Can not be loaded alongside Hydra Defender Missiles.


The Gorgon Defender Missile is tailored to the battleship capsuleer fleet, specifically designed to handle large missile threats. A single Gorgon will destroy a single T2 torpedo. It also can automatically target any enemy torpedo that is attacking your allies in a fleet.

Here's how I think it would play out in a 20vs20 fleet warfare arrangement: There would be dedicated Defender Drakes, outfitted with either type of the missiles(1), and it would drastically change the dynamics of a fight. Gone will be the days of Drakes being the be-all-end-all of gang warfare.

When an enemy ship fires a crapload of missiles at one of your gangmembers, your T2 Defenders would be able to protect him, as opposed to the old T1 defenders, which only protects yourself.

Here's a scenario for Fleet Warfare: You're a FC, and you have a newbie in your corp who wants to be useful in a PVP role other than tackling. You stick him in a drake fully fitted with Hydra Defenders, and tell him "You're covering our asses. You see any missiles fired at us, you fire ALL of your missiles ASAP."

Naturally, in a large blob war, these Defender ships will get primaried as soon as they give themselves away. So it will also add a new dimension to the blob warfare: Do you give up your defensive assets at the start as soon as your enemy starts lobbing missiles at you, or do you save them until you need to protect your key assets? This is a natural self-balancing mechanic.

Let me know what you think of this concept, and how you think you would use such a defense system. Your feedback is greatly appreciated.

Also, CCP, I would like to formally submit this concept to the Book of Awesome.

Important Note: Ship/Combat Balancing - You can't outfit your ship with both Defender types, this is meant to prevent a single ship from being capable of defending against all types of missiles. This is to force FC's and pilots to be more careful in choosing which T2 Defender is ideal for their choice.)

Vin Hellsing
Posted - 2011.09.01 03:15:00 - [2]
 

Also, there could be counters to these Advanced Defender Missiles, such as possible "focused jamming" scripts that target specifically missiles' targeting systems to reduce their damage output or their accuracy.

Nautsyn Thome
Minmatar
Shark Investments
Posted - 2011.09.01 07:55:00 - [3]
 

Good ideas. Confirming that defender missiles (also f.o.f. missiles) need a buff to make their way into the game, especially in pvp.

This whole swarm thing would sure look cool, but wouldnt be a mandatory for me if its too complicated for ccp to introduce. it would be good enough if they look into them.

Ciar Meara
Amarr
Virtus Vindice
Posted - 2011.09.01 13:41:00 - [4]
 

yes

Watszki
Posted - 2011.09.01 14:03:00 - [5]
 

Nah, I dont like this.

William Cooly
Sol Enterprises
Posted - 2011.09.01 14:05:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Watszki
Nah, I dont like this.

Tellahane
Posted - 2011.09.01 14:59:00 - [7]
 

interesting thoughts, however I could easily see a balance problem with missiles, one on one with a drake in say a cyclone, sacrificing 1-2 missile slots for those anti-hydra's would completely null out the dps of a drake, so you simply just shoot till they die and they can't do anything in defense. It only took 1 slot to do that with from the start(unlike 1 slot medium neut which would take several cycles to null out another ships dps). I think 1 defender missile launcher should null out 1-2 launchers of an enemy ship at the most.

I like the concept of dealing with larger fleet ships but in that case make a fleet ship out of it. It's sole purpose is to shoot down missiles, and nothing else. BSG has the similar setup their capitol or larger ships can equip flak or point-defense guns which specifically null out missiles, or even damage the smaller ships that fly into it but nothing strong. But whatever ship fits that, that is its sole purpose, it won't be providing any real dps. I would lean towards a type of destroyer or some such that only fitted those as its goal, can become a command ship equivalent of a destroyer and provide anti-missile dps, or for some races provide tracking speed debuff over an area or something.

Tommbo
Posted - 2011.09.01 15:58:00 - [8]
 

The idea would have to be balanced a bit, I think the way that it is described is a bit too powerful especially for small fleet warfare. It would also mean that fewer people would fly missile boats, which aren't too prevalent in PvP other than the drake.

I would rather see something like this restricted to a specialized class of ships. Almost like the interdictor and HIC. Maybe a T2 support class of ships or a T3 systems module. This way the huge bonus in some situations would be counteracted by being a weakness in others.

Also the missile type countered should follow the current paradigm used for ships. Where larger sized modules are less effective against their smaller counterparts. For instance a cruiser class defender will have reduced damage on a light missile, and may not do enough damage to kill a cruise missile.

Wearfield
The Junkyard Dogs
Posted - 2011.09.01 17:00:00 - [9]
 

No chance. The whole game would need rebalancing.

Finn McCaan
Caldari
Posted - 2011.09.01 20:21:00 - [10]
 

Having some sort of Specific (t2) ship type to act in a sort of aegis cruiser type role would be interesting (t2 drake hull?).

Not sure about the swarm thing - but haveing a light damage high ROF or a high damage low rof t2 defender missle should function fairly well. Don't really need 'special' launchers, if their t2 then they'll have to be from t2 launchers anyway.

One possible way this could function is rather than it automaticly defending the entire fleet the defence ship needs to be targeting the ships it wants to defend? Making this somewhat similar to another form of logistics. Possibly some sort of module to do this (warfare link?)?
Alternatly have the ship defend by proximity, closer ships first. This would force the defender to stay in proximity to the thing its trying to defend making it at least require a mode****of skill to use in a fleet.

These t2 defenders could have the further disadvantage that they do not defend the launching ship (if aoe/targeted defence is active)?

Would be interesting if they could target bombs, drones and fighters.

Herping yourDerp
Posted - 2011.09.01 20:24:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Finn McCaan
Having some sort of Specific (t2) ship type to act in a sort of aegis cruiser type role would be interesting (t2 drake hull?).

Not sure about the swarm thing - but haveing a light damage high ROF or a high damage low rof t2 defender missle should function fairly well. Don't really need 'special' launchers, if their t2 then they'll have to be from t2 launchers anyway.

One possible way this could function is rather than it automaticly defending the entire fleet the defence ship needs to be targeting the ships it wants to defend? Making this somewhat similar to another form of logistics. Possibly some sort of module to do this (warfare link?)?
Alternatly have the ship defend by proximity, closer ships first. This would force the defender to stay in proximity to the thing its trying to defend making it at least require a mode****of skill to use in a fleet.

These t2 defenders could have the further disadvantage that they do not defend the launching ship (if aoe/targeted defence is active)?

Would be interesting if they could target bombs, drones and fighters.


give them slow rate of fire, u can stop 1 volley every 40 seconds at max skills?

Finn McCaan
Caldari
Posted - 2011.09.01 20:37:00 - [12]
 

well on the assumption that incomming vollies have different 'hull' values (so heavy,cruise, torps, cidedel torps and bombs being able to soak up damage - anything under that size id probably 1 hit one kill) then you can chose to either try and kill them with LD/HRoF fire and hope that you can do enough damage to stop the volley or you can load the HD/LRoF and be certain to stop at least 'some' of the volley.

Option 1 is probably better if you know that your about to have Assault missle spam but option 2 might be preferable vs bombs, torps and so on?

Means that the player flying the defence ship needs a certain level of battlefeild awareness to play well/optimaly.



amidaros veleta
Posted - 2011.09.01 22:38:00 - [13]
 

i just think this is silly, what next? a module that will stop laser shots and hybrids? we already have something that stops all of the above..... ecm and its annoying enough.


 

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