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Sullen Skoung
Posted - 2011.09.01 00:15:00 - [1]
 

Ive seen the question asked alot lately.
They're pretty obviously out for only THEIR best interests, they an CCP dont see eye to eye anyways (3 months for the minutes to the emergency minutes lol), CCP HAS and will release things without telling them or behind their backs.

Theyre PR puppets they like to pull out when the community is in an uproar.
They have no power of their own.

The group was formed for one, impossible reason, continued cause CCP needs PR lackeys, and I think their usefulness has passed.
I know WHY they were formed but WHY to we continue to NEED them now?

Breaker77
Gallente
Reclamation Industries
Posted - 2011.09.01 00:23:00 - [2]
 

It was formed due to the T20 incident. If you don't know what that is, you have no right to complain about it.


Sullen Skoung
Posted - 2011.09.01 00:40:00 - [3]
 

Edited by: Sullen Skoung on 01/09/2011 00:43:00
Edited by: Sullen Skoung on 01/09/2011 00:41:22

Originally by: Breaker77
It was formed due to the T20 incident. If you don't know what that is, you have no right to complain about it.




way to fail at the search option

Ill help you tho

Not my post but in the same thread

plus, read the very last line of my OP
Quote:
I know WHY they were formed but WHY to we continue to NEED them now?



Dalloway Jones
Minmatar
Republic Military School
Posted - 2011.09.01 00:47:00 - [4]
 

Why must people whine about this? You think if they dissolve the CSM your sub fee is suddenly going to be ten bucks less a month? It is pretty cool that an MMO even has something like this. If candidates are elected that the public don't care about they have no one to blame but themselves.

Sullen Skoung
Posted - 2011.09.01 00:50:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Dalloway Jones
Why must people whine about this? You think if they dissolve the CSM your sub fee is suddenly going to be ten bucks less a month? It is pretty cool that an MMO even has something like this. If candidates are elected that the public don't care about they have no one to blame but themselves.


why do you feel the need to whine?
and not answer the question for that matter?
WHY is it cool that CCP has a random group of people they ignore like everyone else? I dont care WHO is ON it atm, Im asking about it in GENERAL

Dalloway Jones
Minmatar
Republic Military School
Posted - 2011.09.01 00:53:00 - [6]
 

Do you care as much about real world politics? Or are you just crying because a group of nerds get to go to Iceland twice a year?

Sullen Skoung
Posted - 2011.09.01 00:54:00 - [7]
 

Edited by: Sullen Skoung on 01/09/2011 01:00:00
Originally by: Dalloway Jones
Do you care as much about real world politics? Or are you just crying because a group of nerds get to go to Iceland twice a year?


Actually, ill bite

Originally by: Dalloway Jones
Why must people whine about this?


What part of EVE do you live in?


Ineka
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies
Posted - 2011.09.01 00:58:00 - [8]
 

Edited by: Ineka on 01/09/2011 00:59:48
Originally by: Dalloway Jones
Why must people whine about this? You think if they dissolve the CSM your sub fee is suddenly going to be ten bucks less a month?


Nobody cares about the bucks but the majority of the eve community players ARE in high sec and boarders (low sec), people complain about certain members of the csm and positions about the game direction because those same people who are supposed to see "the greatest good" never think about "the greatest good for the whole community" but "the greatest good for ourselves".

Some were already ridiculous but the last dev blogs about null sec improvements turn them really ridiculous/pathetic (pick your choice)

One thing I'm sure, the concerned players will not have 10 bucks less on their fee but but CCP is taking the risk of loosing a lot more than that just to keep some parasites happy.


Feligast
Minmatar
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.09.01 01:15:00 - [9]
 

I think a lot of the problems with the CSM people have is that many had expectations of them that were not necessarily fulfillable. They want to CSM to be the "get **** done" people, when they're more a sounding board for CCP, at best. If folks would just temper their expectations and realize they're NOT there to make dev decisions, it would make life easier on everyone.

I say this not as a Goon, but as a player. I felt this way before the current membership on the Council.

Rhinanna
Minmatar
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2011.09.01 01:36:00 - [10]
 

For the CSM to be viable, it needs seperate sections.

As it stands, null-sec always wins, simply because they are most organised.

What should be done is the CSM split according to population:

x null sec candidates
x low sec candidates
x faction warfare candidates
e.t.c.

Then only players showing a certain amount of achievement/effort in those regions/activities could vote in those categories, note that these limits wouldn't be announced making it impossible to know if you qualify or not prior, to stop gaming the system.

This would mean the csm actually represents to some degree the player base instead of interest groups.

Flamespar
Posted - 2011.09.01 01:53:00 - [11]
 

Personally my only issue with the CSM is that only a small minority of players voted from them, but they claim to represent the majority of players.

Does that invalidate their opinions, no. But it does indicate why CCP shouldn''t change their direction simply because the CSM asked them to.

The main thing to remember is that they are only one of many stakeholder groups who influence the direction of EVE. And that their role is to advise, not to command.


Sullen Skoung
Posted - 2011.09.01 01:55:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Rhinanna
For the CSM to be viable, it needs seperate sections.

As it stands, null-sec always wins, simply because they are most organised.

What should be done is the CSM split according to population:

x null sec candidates
x low sec candidates
x faction warfare candidates
e.t.c.

Then only players showing a certain amount of achievement/effort in those regions/activities could vote in those categories, note that these limits wouldn't be announced making it impossible to know if you qualify or not prior, to stop gaming the system.

This would mean the csm actually represents to some degree the player base instead of interest groups.


I agree. Everyone but 0.0 are in the position of having no representation
And everyone's expectations were set by the original laughable charter of the panel. Expectations STARTED stupidly high, and CCP dropping a NDA on the m when they say things they dont like about their plans (or thats what it tooks like to the masses) or when they drop a change behind the CSM's backs (cant rememer WHICH one specifically, but about 6 months ago, I remember a change they told the CSM they were gonna let them look over an then dropped it straight into the game an the CSM were pitching a fit over it), belittles them in the eyes of the players. The expectations get dented, ppl qq, all that stuff.

No offense tho, flying elected players to Iceland as a sounding board is the most useless thing Ive ever heard of.

Sullen Skoung
Posted - 2011.09.01 02:20:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Sullen Skoung


Originally by: Dalloway Jones
Why must people whine about this?


What part of EVE do you live in?




Reason I asked that was cause if you dont live in 0.0, IE in high sec, you might wanna look in on what theyre deciding for you. Im guessing you live in 0.0, and are salivating at the chance to pop noobs when they make it so that high sec is no longer a viable place to live.

Discrodia
Gallente
Symbiosis International
Moose Alliance
Posted - 2011.09.01 02:32:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Sullen Skoung
Originally by: Sullen Skoung


Originally by: Dalloway Jones
Why must people whine about this?


What part of EVE do you live in?




Reason I asked that was cause if you dont live in 0.0, IE in high sec, you might wanna look in on what theyre deciding for you. Im guessing you live in 0.0, and are salivating at the chance to pop noobs when they make it so that high sec is no longer a viable place to live.

What makes you think those noobs are going to keep paying to stay and be abused instead of, say, going to play something else?

Sullen Skoung
Posted - 2011.09.01 03:07:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Discrodia

What makes you think those noobs are going to keep paying to stay and be abused instead of, say, going to play something else?


thats kinda been my point a lot in other threads lol
Especially a bad portent when ppl say the percentage of the population affected is 80%
Thats a sizable chunk
hence my sig.
I used to have the phrase "this is your NGE/CU moment CCP" in there but people were getting it confused with whatever topic happened to be in that thread at the time

Mr Kidd
Posted - 2011.09.01 03:20:00 - [16]
 

Edited by: Mr Kidd on 01/09/2011 03:20:05
The CSM is a mechanism to disseminate insider information of upcoming changes in the game to null in an official capacity while providing plausible deniability via NDA's if any such information were to leak beyond trusted circles. In effect, if CSM is "discovered" to have relayed said information then CCP doesn't bear the burden of blame from the community as it did with T20.

It's all about isk/RMT.

"We" don't actually need CSM, but CCP does.

Pytria Le'Danness
Posted - 2011.09.01 03:42:00 - [17]
 

Same thing as a lightning rod (I think that's the correct word). It directs the lightning strike into one place to make it easier to control.

See also: placebo.

Pok Nibin
Amarr
Posted - 2011.09.01 05:20:00 - [18]
 

Edited by: Pok Nibin on 01/09/2011 05:24:33

It's pretty absurd to believe that among from 28 to 40 thousand players in a game with its prime currency being mistrust, with a major feature being isolation into small groups or as lone individuals with no discernible inroad into a small group that a player is responsible to know WHO these CANDIDATES ARE.

It's not been mentioned very often, often enough to be common knowledge, just how many players actually voted, and of that number what percentage actually voted for the winning CANDIDATES. I've heard eight percent voted, and four percent of the total of players actually elected the winners. To further believe these people represent US is ridiculous to the point of hilarity.

CCP is governed by "management by crises." Most well run organizations have "crisis management." You see the difference. This CSM joke was fomented as a result of a CCP employee (who was never fired) using his position to gain considerable advantage in the game. The CSM was a bone management tossed us to mollify us and give us the illusion we are somehow included in some oversight role. I mean. Had they controlled their staff - including firing the offender as an example to their remaining staff - a CSM would never have been considered.

Now we have it, we have a pseudo-aristocracy. The CSM members voted in were bloc-voted by their cronies to serve only their narrow ends. Forget about us puny "other" players. And so it was written, so it must be.

All MMOs use forum input to guide developer thinking for game growth and adjustment. CCP's actions for two years (or more) has turned THIS into another absurdity. Re: The forum managers (nuff said).

I didn't mean this to become a wall of text, but the management of CCP has allowed it to become a wild west show, it seems, while under the illusion they were being liberal. Their sudden corporate-think transformation is no more than strangling the dog back on the same leash with which they were far too generous. It's a pet peeve of mine - incompetent management.

This is the only game/place/forum where I get a feeling of prosecutorial oversight verging on paranoia, up to and including a two-minute wait to post...c'mon. (Their paranoia, not mine. Then, I guess someone is really after both of us by now.) You get the feeling you're doing something wrong just by logging in the game, or on this forum. The idea of "community" here is as big a joke as CCP's management scheme - all totally unnecessary, all easily avoided, all a quagmire it would take olympic effort from which to become freed.

When things go downhill they go pretty fast. Or, was it "Proper prior planning prevents poor performance...?" I forget.






Ryhss
Caldari
The Excecutorans
Posted - 2011.09.01 05:24:00 - [19]
 

Having a CSM makes it look like CCP cares about us......which they don't.

Digital Messiah
Gallente
N7 Corporation
PandaMonium.
Posted - 2011.09.01 05:25:00 - [20]
 

I think you forget the power the CSM enthralls over the community as well. If CCP back stabs them, they can make a riot 10x worse than the last jita raid.

Sullen Skoung
Posted - 2011.09.01 05:29:00 - [21]
 

Edited by: Sullen Skoung on 01/09/2011 05:32:15
Originally by: Pok Nibin

CCP is governed by "management by crises." Most well run organizations have "crisis management." You see the difference. This CSM joke was fomented as a result of a CCP employee (who was never fired) using his position to gain considerable advantage in the game.



and was never fired because the staff was "on vacation" when the incident happened. Remember that bit? And the people he conspired with were never punished either. One PLAYER was banned from this, **********, whose name as you can see in STILL filtered out, several years later.

Originally by: Digital Messiah
I think you forget the power the CSM enthralls over the community as well. If CCP back stabs them, they can make a riot 10x worse than the last jita raid.


yea... no... other than getting the Goons to DDOS the EVE-O forums again, no power

Sullen Skoung
Posted - 2011.09.01 13:18:00 - [22]
 

Edited by: Sullen Skoung on 01/09/2011 13:19:15
So we dont NEED them?

CCP does.
Guess they have to have SOME friends, even if they have to buy them


Zleon Leigh
Posted - 2011.09.01 13:24:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Ineka
Edited by: Ineka on 01/09/2011 00:59:48
Originally by: Dalloway Jones
Why must people whine about this? You think if they dissolve the CSM your sub fee is suddenly going to be ten bucks less a month?


Nobody cares about the bucks but the majority of the eve community players ARE in high sec and boarders (low sec), people complain about certain members of the csm and positions about the game direction because those same people who are supposed to see "the greatest good" never think about "the greatest good for the whole community" but "the greatest good for ourselves".

Some were already ridiculous but the last dev blogs about null sec improvements turn them really ridiculous/pathetic (pick your choice)

One thing I'm sure, the concerned players will not have 10 bucks less on their fee but but CCP is taking the risk of loosing a lot more than that just to keep some parasites happy.




This

Sullen Skoung
Posted - 2011.09.01 23:45:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Sullen Skoung
Ive seen the question asked alot lately.
They're pretty obviously out for only THEIR best interests, they an CCP dont see eye to eye anyways (3 months for the minutes to the emergency minutes lol), CCP HAS and will release things without telling them or behind their backs.

Theyre PR puppets they like to pull out when the community is in an uproar.
They have no power of their own.

The group was formed for one, impossible reason, continued cause CCP needs PR lackeys, and I think their usefulness has passed.
I know WHY they were formed but WHY to we continue to NEED them now?


this lol

Sullen Skoung
Posted - 2011.09.02 13:41:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Sullen Skoung
Originally by: Sullen Skoung
Ive seen the question asked alot lately.
They're pretty obviously out for only THEIR best interests, they an CCP dont see eye to eye anyways (3 months for the minutes to the emergency minutes lol), CCP HAS and will release things without telling them or behind their backs.

Theyre PR puppets they like to pull out when the community is in an uproar.
They have no power of their own.

The group was formed for one, impossible reason, continued cause CCP needs PR lackeys, and I think their usefulness has passed.
I know WHY they were formed but WHY to we continue to NEED them now?


this lol

More this

Nominh Ehre
Posted - 2011.09.02 13:53:00 - [26]
 

They are basically monkeys.

When CCP needs a distraction they pull them out of their hat and say

" look at the monkey! look at the monkey!look at the monkey! look at the monkey!look at the monkey! look at the monkey!look at the monkey! look at the monkey!look at the monkey! look at the monkey!look at the monkey! look at the monkey!look at the monkey! look at the monkey!look at the monkey! look at the monkey!"

And most of us go

"oooh monkeyyy!oooh monkeyyy!oooh monkeyyy!oooh monkeyyy!oooh monkeyyy!oooh monkeyyy!oooh monkeyyy!oooh monkeyyy!oooh monkeyyy!oooh monkeyyy!oooh monkeyyy!oooh monkeyyy!oooh monkeyyy!oooh monkeyyy!oooh monkeyyy!oooh monkeyyy!oooh monkeyyy!oooh monkeyyy!"

Yeah, pretty much how it goes.

Forum Worrier
Posted - 2011.09.02 13:54:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Sullen Skoung

More this


You forgot to take your pills again didn't you?

Ghoest
Posted - 2011.09.02 14:24:00 - [28]
 

The idea was that the CSM would keep CCP from abusing the players.

But it turns out that the CSN are a bunch of gullible *******s who cant even acknowledge that they were duped because they are bound by an NDA.

Othran
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2011.09.02 15:14:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: Breaker77
It was formed due to the T20 incident. If you don't know what that is, you have no right to complain about it.




Not quite true. Internal Affairs was formed due to the t20 stuff. The CSM came later and I think its done exactly what :ccp: intended. You can make of that what you will ;)

Sullen Skoung
Posted - 2011.09.02 15:19:00 - [30]
 

Edited by: Sullen Skoung on 02/09/2011 15:34:08
Edited by: Sullen Skoung on 02/09/2011 15:33:52
Originally by: Othran
Originally by: Breaker77
It was formed due to the T20 incident. If you don't know what that is, you have no right to complain about it.




Not quite true. Internal Affairs was formed due to the t20 stuff. The CSM came later and I think its done exactly what :ccp: intended. You can make of that what you will ;)


I was there
CSM was formed after T20 as a watchdog group to go to Iceland to make sure CCP wasnt cheating. It was as impossible and useless as it is now.

Just wish I still had the link for the dev blog or whatever it was that was the announcement for it that said that



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