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blankseplocked Gallente and Amarr Weapons Disadvantage
 
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Alex Veritae
Posted - 2011.08.30 20:12:00 - [1]
 

I am a Gallente Caldari cross trained Pilot. I recently was helping a corp mate run a mission against EoM. We discovered that my Raven's Paradise Cruise missiles were the most effective weapon against them. However since he is a Gallente Loyalist he has no option to load EM charges. Sadly Gallente are not the only race thus disadvantaged in EVE. Amarr also suffer from a restriction to two damage types. Gallente and Amarr are seriously disadvantaged by the elimination of alternate weapon damage where as the other two races are allowed to load specific damage for specific situations and can carry a variety of ammo thus allowing them to quickly arm for maximum damage. The argument could be made that Gallente could use other racial drones to fill in the damage types however this is still a disadvantage. Weapon ammo can be changed at will in less that 10 seconds but drones must be loaded in station. This means that while Caldari and Minmatar can at will switch damage types Gallente must load their alternate damage type in station and with the exception of ships like the Vexor for light and medium drones and the Dominix, must know what they are facing. This severly limits their effectivness in PVP as engagments are usually of short duration and a fleet can not wait for it's drone boat to fit out drones at a station and then warp to location. Amarr is even more severly disadvantaged as their drone capacity does not give them the option to load different types of drones as the Dominix does.. This is not just an issue for PVP allthough that is severly effected since it is quite easy to predict the damage from Gallente and Amarr. Assuming the pilot uses the weapons their ship has bonuses for, but also for missions. I have drawn drone missions and several others which have preference to explosive or Em damage types. This needs to be addressed either by addition of more bonuses such as adding bonuses for cannons or Lasers to Gallente and Blasters or Cannons to Amarr ships. This however removes the benefit of a specific race and goes against the EVE storyline. Alternatively it would be possible to add missile hard points to most ships but have Caldari be the only race with benefits to using missiles. Failing this there needs to be new ammo released for blasters. This still leaves Amarr high and dry but would level the playing field for Gallente at least.

Feligast
Minmatar
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.08.30 20:18:00 - [2]
 

Dear Baby Jesus:

Save us from the wall-o-text.

Amen.

Dorian Wylde
Posted - 2011.08.30 20:35:00 - [3]
 

Gallente have drones, amarr have higher base damage and an option to not consume ammo.

Rhinanna
Minmatar
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2011.08.30 23:29:00 - [4]
 

All weapons have their disadvantages.

If you don't like the restricted damage type, I would suggest Minmatar, however instead of doing reduced damage to some targets, prepare to do less to all, getting into you 2km optimal without losing tracking isn't easy and you still can't hit kinetic easily.

Arty aren't bad, but have low dps and poor tracking, so again generally worse than lasers.

Cruises or Torps are generally regarded as the best depending on your ship for PvE, hence why there are so many ravens running missions.

Blasters are weak unfortunately, not so much due to the guns themselves, but due to the fact they are mounted on armour tanked vessels, too slow to easily make use of them, however now MWDs are much more usable in missions, they have seen quite a powerup for PvE. Unfortunately this is still what screws them for PvP, having said that, if an enemy is pinned down, there isn't much better to have sitting on top of it than a few blaster boats ;)
Rails are a nice long range weapon, but cruises tend to be far better for PvE so tend to be heavily favoured.

And Drones get shot down.

Nezumiiro Noneko
Posted - 2011.08.31 01:00:00 - [5]
 

grass is greener ammo troll with wall of text....nice combo.


PVP...yes amarr is jsut so fail at this. 2 damage types really limits them. This got you points deducted. 5/10.

Alex Veritae
Posted - 2011.08.31 02:34:00 - [6]
 

I'm not saying amarr fail at PVP I'm saying they are less effective that they could be. If I know I'm facing an Amarr pilot I only have to tank for EM and Thermal. It makes it much easier to defend. Also I'm not a grass is greener troll. notice I HAVE a different faction I can run. Hence the term cross trained. All I am saying is that EVE is limiting the effectiveness of two of their races in both PVP and PVE true all guns have their drawbacks, but two races are allowed all damage types and two are restricted. This is a disadvantage that does not seem to be in keeping with the spirit of eve

Kiryu Oranos
Posted - 2011.08.31 02:35:00 - [7]
 

Alex is correct, having 1 race with mission specific damage, isn't really player-friendly.You people aren't even paying attention to what he's saying, as you're to busy pointing out that he put some work into his thread post.Instead of trolling so hard you might want to process this idea in your head, and think about what changes you might want to races. I agree with you Alex, having one mission running race is very stupid, and the limited damage types for other races makes that race(Caldari) supreme to all others for missions(and occasionaly PvP).Since CCP balances the game, I personally think that they should balance/add the damage types for each individual race, like at least adding some missiles hardpoints to all Battleship class vessels.

Nezumiiro Noneko
Posted - 2011.08.31 02:53:00 - [8]
 

Edited by: Nezumiiro Noneko on 31/08/2011 02:56:10
Originally by: Alex Veritae
I'm not saying amarr fail at PVP I'm saying they are less effective that they could be. If I know I'm facing an Amarr pilot I only have to tank for EM and Thermal.


true but how often do you fly out going you'll see nothing but amarr on a roam or fleet op? Outside of fw not often. Hell not even in fw 100% either...they like mixed ships too.

Pick an easy example. Minny pilot. t1 has an explosive hole. t2 has the kinetic hole (with the explosive still there). If that minny pilot goes em/therm resists to hunt amarr yes he will have an easier time with amarr. then gets smacked down hard by kinetic missiles and faction fusion and the explosive component of barrage.

so basically our minny pilot if he goes out amarr hunting, runs in fear of other minny ships and even caldari. Zigs instead of zags, caldari gets the scram and web...might be a very thorny death (especially since rocket buff from a bit back...now a 1 web and good to go setup now).




Caldari...not getting the sahft versus them either. They plug that em hole by default. Your lazers, minny rf emp...take your pick.


Nicolo da'Vicenza
Amarr
Divine Power.
Atlas.
Posted - 2011.08.31 09:06:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Nezumiiro Noneko
Edited by: Nezumiiro Noneko on 31/08/2011 02:56:10
Originally by: Alex Veritae
I'm not saying amarr fail at PVP I'm saying they are less effective that they could be. If I know I'm facing an Amarr pilot I only have to tank for EM and Thermal.


true but how often do you fly out going you'll see nothing but amarr on a roam or fleet op? Outside of fw not often. Hell not even in fw 100% either...they like mixed ships too.
this is true, i have yet to see an amarr-centered BS fleet in 0.0

buff amarr

Ciar Meara
Amarr
Virtus Vindice
Posted - 2011.08.31 09:58:00 - [10]
 

Amarr Victor!

Only two damage types for Amarr can be annoying if your enemy prepares for it.
(if your in a corp that is know for flying only Amarr for example)

Otherwise its not that much of a problem. It would be nice to have crystals that do
other kind of damage though. Perhaps the only real issue that I have with Amarr ships is that gleam is useless and conflagration a bit underpowered for its disatvantages.

On the other hand: Scorch/Aurora

Sports Bet
Posted - 2011.08.31 12:37:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Nicolo da'Vicenza
Originally by: Nezumiiro Noneko
Edited by: Nezumiiro Noneko on 31/08/2011 02:56:10
Originally by: Alex Veritae
I'm not saying amarr fail at PVP I'm saying they are less effective that they could be. If I know I'm facing an Amarr pilot I only have to tank for EM and Thermal.


true but how often do you fly out going you'll see nothing but amarr on a roam or fleet op? Outside of fw not often. Hell not even in fw 100% either...they like mixed ships too.
this is true, i have yet to see an amarr-centered BS fleet in 0.0

buff amarr


Zealot+Guardian fleets are quite popular...

Jaigar
Mom 'n' Pop Ammo Shoppe
Transmission Lost
Posted - 2011.08.31 14:08:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Nicolo da'Vicenza
Originally by: Nezumiiro Noneko
Edited by: Nezumiiro Noneko on 31/08/2011 02:56:10
Originally by: Alex Veritae
I'm not saying amarr fail at PVP I'm saying they are less effective that they could be. If I know I'm facing an Amarr pilot I only have to tank for EM and Thermal.


true but how often do you fly out going you'll see nothing but amarr on a roam or fleet op? Outside of fw not often. Hell not even in fw 100% either...they like mixed ships too.
this is true, i have yet to see an amarr-centered BS fleet in 0.0

buff amarr


I've never seen geddon fleets in null sec..... oh wait...

Sub Prime
Posted - 2011.08.31 17:29:00 - [13]
 

Edited by: Sub Prime on 31/08/2011 17:29:40

Alex Veritae
Posted - 2011.08.31 18:27:00 - [14]
 

You all have very valid points but again what I'm saying isn't that these two races cant be effective or that you can always tank for damage. there are after all Gallente pilots who use artilary for this very reason. The point is that if for example you were the CEO of a corp that was being wardeced and it is known you are the most experienced PVP and fly the best ship then you become the prime target. Now if you are a Gallente pilot you're probably flying a Meg or a Vindi. Either way your damage is thermal and Kenetic. if you're amarr then it's thermal EM assuming the attacking corp has bothered to do their research they should know the main BS and DPS ships of the other corp and be able to fit for them. This puts Amarr and Gallente at a disadvantage. This is not to say that they are useless or so severly crippled as to be avoided it is simply stating that these two races can be tanked specifically where as unless you have extreemly good spy or something you will have to omni tank for Caldari and Minny. Omni tanking is almost never as effective as specific tanking therefor Caldari and Minny are harder to fight than Gallente and Amarr. Again I want to stress I AM NOT A LOYALIST. this thread is not to benefit me by changing the Ammo it is simply observation from missions and PVP I've been involved in


 

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