open All Channels
seplocked Intergalactic Summit
blankseplocked Amarrian Abolitionists Speak Out
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Pages: 1 2 3 [4]

Author Topic

Arkady Sadik
Minmatar
Electus Matari
Posted - 2011.09.09 11:46:00 - [91]
 

Edited by: Arkady Sadik on 09/09/2011 11:48:07
"Piracy?" You used to call us "terrorists" - is this a step up or down?

Rodj Blake
Amarr
PIE Inc.
Posted - 2011.09.09 13:07:00 - [92]
 

Edited by: Rodj Blake on 09/09/2011 13:07:15
Originally by: Arkady Sadik
Edited by: Arkady Sadik on 09/09/2011 11:48:07
"Piracy?" You used to call us "terrorists" - is this a step up or down?



Your alliance's raids on legitimate commercial shipping within Amarrian borders were piracy, pure and simple.

But that's not to say that you don't also try to terrorise your victims.

Arkady Sadik
Minmatar
Electus Matari
Posted - 2011.09.09 13:29:00 - [93]
 

Originally by: Rodj Blake
Your alliance's raids on legitimate commercial shipping within Amarrian borders were piracy, pure and simple.


*Arkady Sadik looks amused*

I think the issue is that we disagree on whether transporting Minmatar slaves is "legitimate commercial shipping." This difference in opinion has lead to a war, as you might or might not have noticed.

But, we're derailing quite a bit here.

We were just discussing how the argument from the reformers within your Empire that the Empire is showing signs of "good will" with the law to forbid taking slaves outside of the Empire does sound a bit hollow considering how little the law is enforced. To my example of a large amount of raids into the Republic you added the example that complaints about breaking the law won't be heard if they come from the most likely targets of the lawbreakers.

Oh, to the friendly loyalists around, I'd be interested in a reference regarding this law. I've heard a lot about it, but haven't found the official source, and I'm very interested in the exact wording. Thanks in advance!

Nicoletta Mithra
Amarr
Ordo Novus Mul-Zatah
Posted - 2011.09.09 15:12:00 - [94]
 

Originally by: Arkady Sadik
[Uh. Yes, what about them? I think you missed my point. I am not saying that the Amarr are doing something surprising by doing those raids, or that all would be good if they just stopped those raids.

I told an Amarrian that their assertions of it being illegal to take slaves outside of the Empire sounds somewhat hollow considering how often it happens.

I'm sure the Empire would be able to do much more against those slave raids if it were allowed to bring the Navy into the Republics borders. I'm equally sure that while the Empire would embrace this step, the Republic wouldn't be fond of it. But it's exactly what you would have to do if you really want to see the Empire do something about it.

If you don't want to have the Empire's navy within your borders, you'll have to deal with those slave raids alone. It's true they're illegal by both Empire and Republic standards and laws, but that doesn't mean that the Empire can do something about it in Republic space. All it can do is persecuting these raiders within Amarrian borders with all the force of the law. And honestly, as we are kown for our drakonian ways in that regard, this is something that happens. Only a week ago I saw some of these raiders sentenced to slavery.

Truth is, though, that many of these raiders might not sell their slaves in the Empire - at least not directly. It's easy for Blood Raiders or other heretical sects, whether it is Sani Sabik or EoM, to bring a few Amarrian hulls in Imperial Navy colors. So, there are limited opportunities for the Empire to get them.
You on the other hand deal directly with those raiders and wish you success with dealing with those criminals. If you should happen to stumble over a batch of these and need help, feel free to contact me, I'm happy to provide the Empire's justice with a long(er) arm.

And lastly - transporting slaves within the Empire's borders is a legal activity. And it's legality isn't depending at all on whether or not it's morally acceptable to do so. It's legit by Amarrian law and as the Empire is a sovereign nation, what is legal within it's borders is defined by Amarrian law. You can't expect the Empire to respect the Republic's sovereignty if you don't respect the Empire's.

Arkady Sadik
Minmatar
Electus Matari
Posted - 2011.09.09 16:34:00 - [95]
 

Originally by: Nicoletta Mithra
I'm sure the Empire would be able to do much more against those slave raids if it were allowed to bring the Navy into the Republics borders. I'm equally sure that while the Empire would embrace this step, the Republic wouldn't be fond of it. But it's exactly what you would have to do if you really want to see the Empire do something about it.


Actually, I disagree.

These raids happen from Empire space, and back into Empire space. If these individuals would stay in the Republic, we'd have much less of a problem. As they are able to retreat back into the Empire and wait there without fear of repercussions, it's much more difficult for us to do something about it.

The Empire going all "oh, nothing we can do about this, honest" doesn't make the law more convincing.

Quote:
You can't expect the Empire to respect the Republic's sovereignty if you don't respect the Empire's.


I don't. Either of the two.

Again, I am not asking the Empire to change anything. I am telling you that a law that is rarely enforced, mostly ignored, and when it comes up all is done is finding excuses on why it's not enforced, is not very convincing of the Empire's desire to change its ways with slavery.

Which was why you brought up the law in the first place.


Pages: 1 2 3 [4]

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only