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Rhaldar Umandor
Posted - 2011.08.30 07:25:00 - [1]
 

My question is just as it states in the subject. When a skill increases performance by say 2% per skill level, is that then 2% over the base, or is it 2% over the previous value?

To clarify, for example: my turrets do 100 damage, I then train turret spec for that particular turret, which increases damage by 2% per level trained. At level one they would do 102 damage. Is it then at level two 104 (4% of 100), or 104.04 (2% of 100 + 2% of 102)? The difference seems small, but with larger numbers the second would start stacking up a lot faster and would make training to level five a lot more interesting.

ISD Etetia


ISD STAR
Posted - 2011.08.30 07:30:00 - [2]
 

These percentage modifiers always applies to the base value.
A skill providing a 2% bonus per level, will give you a 10% bonus at level 5

Even though the number might seem a bit small, keep in mind you are still getting some percentages from the other gunnery skills you have. When it all adds up the total damage increase is very significant.

Epic Fail Troll
Posted - 2011.08.30 07:52:00 - [3]
 

While each level of a skill is additive, each skill that improves a particular attribute is multiplicative, as well as each module on your ship and any fleet bonuses you are receiving.

ISD IonCharge

Posted - 2011.08.30 08:07:00 - [4]
 

Percentile bonuses on unlimited-range attributes are directly multiplicative. Percentile bonuses on limited-range attributes are inversely multiplicative. Non-percentile bonuses are added to base before percentile bonuses. Skill level percentile bonuses are multiplied by current skill level before being calculated as above. Stacking penalties may apply to certain modules and rigs.

As for your turret - let's say it does 100 damage every 10 seconds, as a base attribute with no bonuses applied, which is 100/10 = 10 DPS.

- Weapon spec. skill at level 5 gives -2% per level to rate of fire, ie -10% at level 5.
- Gunnery skill gives the same, ie -10% ROF at level 5
- Rapid fire skill gives -4% ROF per level, ie -20% at level 5.
- Surgical strike gives 3% damage per level, ie 15% at level 5.
- Basic turret skill (e.g. medium hybrid turret) gives 5% damage per level, ie 25% at level 5.
- Let's say you are on a ship with a 25% base damage bonus on hull

This will give you a total of 100*1.25*1.25*1.15 = 179.7 damage every 10*0.9*0.9*0.8 = 6.5 seconds.

179.7/6.5 = 27.6 DPS, a considerable increase from 10.

Add on 2x Tech-II weapon DPS upgrades (Gyrostabilizer, etc) and this increases it to:

179.7 * 1.1 * (1+(0.87*0.1)) = 214.9 damage, every
6.5 * 0.895 * (1-(0.87*0.105)) = 5.3 seconds

214.9/5.3 = 40.5 DPS. This is just over 4x higher than the base DPS without the skills or mods.

Now when you consider that some ships have dual bonuses to damage and rate of fire, that you can fit more than 2 damage mods, that you can fit *better* damage mods, that you can use advanced ammunition for higher damage, that there are implants and rigs to assist these figures as well... you can see that all of those "little bonuses" really start to add up to some serious damage output.

Rhaldar Umandor
Posted - 2011.08.30 09:18:00 - [5]
 

Thanks for the explanations, I didn't know about the multiplicative aspect of the skills. This will likely affect my planning a little bit.

Aus Man Industries
Posted - 2011.08.30 14:17:00 - [6]
 

aye a 10% increase in damage and a 10% increase in rate of fire is 121% more damage.


Tau Cabalander
Posted - 2011.08.30 15:02:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Aus Man Industries
aye a 10% increase in damage and a 10% increase in rate of fire is 121% more damage.

I think it may be:

(1 + damage bonus) / (1 - RoF bonus) = (1 + 10%) / (1 - 10%) = 1.22 or 122%

AmarrettoDiAmarr
Posted - 2011.08.30 16:55:00 - [8]
 

You will quickly get the hang of it. Just remember that most descriptions, and posters, do not use % correctly.

For example, with a "2% per level" skill, then going from level 4 to 5 is a 1.85% increase in damage
because you are going from turrentdamage*othermodifiers*(1+4*.02) to turrentdamage*othermodifiers*(1+5*.02). This is a ratio of about 1.0185, a 1.85% increase.

(This is part of the "diminishing returns" of EVE. Your level 5 skill provides a smaller % improvement than your level 4 yet costs 210,745 SP/rank versus 37,255 SP/rank)

The overselling "what's on the tin" is worse the bigger the benefit level 5 of a 20%/level is an increase of 11.1%
Resistances work the other way: 5% resist/level means level5 takes 6.25% less damage than level4.

Economist at least have a better terminology. Interest rates going from 4% to 5% is both a 25% increase and an increase of 100 basis points.


Ira Theos
Posted - 2011.08.31 01:31:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: ISD IonCharge
Percentile bonuses on unlimited-range attributes are directly multiplicative. Percentile bonuses on limited-range attributes are inversely multiplicative. Non-percentile bonuses are added to base before percentile bonuses. Skill level percentile bonuses are multiplied by current skill level before being calculated as above. Stacking penalties may apply to certain modules and rigs.

As for your turret - let's say it does 100 damage every 10 seconds, as a base attribute with no bonuses applied, which is 100/10 = 10 DPS.

- Weapon spec. skill at level 5 gives -2% per level to rate of fire, ie -10% at level 5.
- Gunnery skill gives the same, ie -10% ROF at level 5
- Rapid fire skill gives -4% ROF per level, ie -20% at level 5.
- Surgical strike gives 3% damage per level, ie 15% at level 5.
- Basic turret skill (e.g. medium hybrid turret) gives 5% damage per level, ie 25% at level 5.
- Let's say you are on a ship with a 25% base damage bonus on hull

This will give you a total of 100*1.25*1.25*1.15 = 179.7 damage every 10*0.9*0.9*0.8 = 6.5 seconds.

179.7/6.5 = 27.6 DPS, a considerable increase from 10.

Add on 2x Tech-II weapon DPS upgrades (Gyrostabilizer, etc) and this increases it to:

179.7 * 1.1 * (1+(0.87*0.1)) = 214.9 damage, every
6.5 * 0.895 * (1-(0.87*0.105)) = 5.3 seconds

214.9/5.3 = 40.5 DPS. This is just over 4x higher than the base DPS without the skills or mods.

Now when you consider that some ships have dual bonuses to damage and rate of fire, that you can fit more than 2 damage mods, that you can fit *better* damage mods, that you can use advanced ammunition for higher damage, that there are implants and rigs to assist these figures as well... you can see that all of those "little bonuses" really start to add up to some serious damage output.

**************

and then when you get primaried...
you go "poof"


 

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