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Sigion
Posted - 2011.08.30 04:16:00 - [1]
 

Hi there,

I'm not much of a PVPer (yet) however I'm curious on the best tactics to avoid a lowsec gate camp.

Let's say my ship is equipped with a Prototype Cloaking Device and I jump through a gate into lowsec, which drops me 10+ KMs out from the destination gate.

In the immediate vacinity are 4-5 hostile ships.

What are the tips and tricks to avoid getting gibbed?

In this scenario, the way I see it the odds are stacked heavily against me, warping immediately will either see me insta-locked and warp distrupted...or I might already be in a Warp Bubble...

Should I accelerate out of the gate auto-cloak and immediately activate my own cloak hoping they dont lock me first?
What's the risk here if ending up within the 2000M range that cancels the cloak?

What tricks do the campers emply to catch ships equipped with a cloak?
What tricks can I do to thwart the low life campers when they are surrounding the jump destination?

thanks :)


ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
Posted - 2011.08.30 05:38:00 - [2]
 

Originally by: Sigion

I'm not much of a PVPer (yet) however I'm curious on the best tactics to avoid a lowsec gate camp.

What are the tips and tricks to avoid getting gibbed?



Kudos to you. Just by asking this you have now put yourself one step above a good chunk of many other players who play EVE (the "chunk" who think all of low-sec is a total gank-fest, etc. etc.).

Originally by: Sigion
Let's say my ship is equipped with a Prototype Cloaking Device and I jump through a gate into lowsec, which drops me 10+ KMs out from the destination gate.


First... unless you are transporting goods in a hauler... drop the cloak. It heavily "nerfs" your ship from a combat perspective and has little use outside of cloaking up in the middle of a system.
If you ARE transporting goods in a hauler then you want the Improved Cloaking Device II and a 10MN Microwarpdrive fitted. If you ask "what's the difference" then I ask you to look at the two cloaks' respective stats. The difference between them is subtle, but significant. I'll go more into this later.

Second... after jumping through a gate you will spawn exactly 15km from the gate and be cloaked for up to 1 minute so long as you do nothing (no module activation, no moving, NOTHING). This cloak cannot be broken so don't worry about anyone getting "too close."
Again... if you ask "so what if it's 10km or 15km?" then I will point to what I said above... the difference is subtle but SIGNIFICANT. And again, I'll go into details later.

Originally by: Sigion
Should I accelerate out of the gate auto-cloak and immediately activate my own cloak hoping they dont lock me first?
What's the risk here if ending up within the 2000M range that cancels the cloak?


Unless you are in a "cloaking specific" ship (i.e. Cov-ops, Recon, etc) this won't work. The speed penalty that the cloaking device gives when active is somewhere in the range of 90 to 75% (Prototype and Improved, respectively). With such a slow speed you run the risk of being "found" by a fast ship with a whole lot of drone assigned to it.

Instead...
- wait for about 30 seconds til the "session timer" (that innocuous little "spiral" circle in the upper left) expires
- select the gate 15km from you
- hit "Approach" and your MWD
- when 2000m from the gate spam the "Jump to" button

If your ship has enough tank and/or the DPS on you isn't great enough and/or you are not insta-webbed/scrammed you should be able to "bully through" and jump. Beware though... competent gangs usually have at least one guy who doesn't aggress... this way if you DO make it then that guy can jump with you and hopefully pin you down on the other side.

Another thing you can do is the MWD-cloak trick. Like I said before, you need an Improved Cloaking Device and a 10MN Microwarpdrive. Here's what you do...
- find your destination gate (or any warpable place)
- ALIGN to your target gate
- activate your cloak and MWD AT THE SAME TIME.
- watch the cycle time for your MWD
- when the cycle for your MWD is up, decloak, and punch warp

The idea behind this trick is that MWD gives a 500-600% speed bonus when activated and the cloak takes away 75% of that speed when activated... leaving you with a speed that is close to what you need to warp (need between 75% and 125% max speed) by the time the MWD cycle ends (along with the cloak giving you time you need to align properly).
It works wonders with large, sluggish, ships.

One thing to note about both of the above tactics... ABs won't work with them. They simply do not give you enough of a speed bonus.

[continued]

ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
Posted - 2011.08.30 05:52:00 - [3]
 

[continuing]

Originally by: Sigion

What tricks do the campers emply to catch ships equipped with a cloak?



Usually people have a small, fast ship with a lot of drones assigned to them. When the small ship sees a cloaker, he/she tries to guesstimate the trajectory of the cloaked ship "manually" (when you cloak, you are still visible in space for a good second or two, even though you don't appear on the overview) and burn towards them... all in the hopes that one of the drones might pass close enough to deactivate the cloaking device.

However... you won't see this counter-tactic very often in low-sec as gate-guns are particularly bad news for "small" ships (i.e. they can't tank the gate-guns).
Out in 0.0 you'll see this counter-tactic quite often... along with bubbles and "can spam" (i.e. the act of ejecting jetcans in "strategic locations" to force cloaks to deactivate).

Originally by: Sigion
What tricks can I do to thwart the low life campers when they are surrounding the jump destination?


Hey now... name-calling is uncalled for. Wink

In general... the best ways to avoid camps are thus:

- using a "throwaway" scout to find camps before you main character/ship runs into them
- using an agile and FAST ship (a frigate with a Nanofiber or two aligns so fast that almost nothing can catch it right after it activates warp).

Tosser Galore
Posted - 2011.08.30 08:39:00 - [4]
 

Edited by: Tosser Galore on 30/08/2011 08:41:55
Solid advice so far.


Make an alt called. Crashgate. worthlesskillmaill, reapproachNOW etc.. Set you biomed clone at a closeby station.

Practice with the alt in Disposable ship types in a cheap clone. Decide if it's worth practicing with bigger ships or find out how easy it is to get away in frig (until you run across people that bothered with tactics/ships to kill frigs). You might even try it in a pod.

Jumping in to lowsex. 0.0. Learning to deal with the usual shiptypes that campers employ. And why not 0.0 and some sightseeing bubblecamps? If you manage to get past the often violent border systems, the place is littered with derelict drones (ecm) and random shipwrecks. So bring a salvager and a you might even try running gate camps for *some* profit.

0.0 people are generally very happy to get a killmail in their Dramiel lap and will give you some free advice and quick ride home.

Worse thing that can happen is that you generate free kills that will "taint" your lolbattleclinic resumé, but (that means squat since it's a placeholder char)


For when you get "ganked"

Put one trit in each ships cargo as a big FU. Make baseless claims that you will "run locators" with your main and come invade 2 "their" system with your alliance L33t cap ship wtfpwonbbq-fleet. Explaing that you are a new player "looking to get in to pew pew Ask if you can join their corp as a tackler, Tell them that your training for a Hurricane...Random RP trollolol or minimize local, your choice.

Biomass when you feel that you learned the ropes. Theory is fun and all but all "pvp" encounters are best learned and dealt with by hands on practice.

Make a real scout alt. Get racial frig to V and find out the fun of cloaky warp frigates. Consider a full uppgrade to put scout on a second account just to train in peace and max out scanner skills.

Syekuda
Hell's Revenge
Posted - 2011.08.30 12:41:00 - [5]
 

Save yourself a lot of trouble. Use an alt to scout or a friend to do the same thing. Lots of trouble avoided. Use the same ship setup as you mentionned using your prototype cloaking device and all but use a scout.

its the best way really. If you don't have friends just join a corp and make friends. Hell, pay them to scout if its worth the trouble. If not, use a small fast ship.

I don't know whats your motive behind avoiding low sec but using scout should be the best solution.

Dark Pangolin
Caldari
Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse
Posted - 2011.08.30 15:52:00 - [6]
 

Everything ShahFluffers said. And scouting. Accurate Intel is the most powerful weapon in EVE.

-DP

Feligast
Minmatar
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.08.30 19:10:00 - [7]
 

Obviously a covops cloak works best, but Shah gave an excellent explanation of how it works.

Also, remember that you cannot use bubbles in lowsec, so that's at least one worry less that you have.

Guillame Herschel
Gallente
NME1
Posted - 2011.08.30 20:58:00 - [8]
 

Edited by: Guillame Herschel on 30/08/2011 21:02:03
Originally by: ShahFluffers

If you ARE transporting goods in a hauler then you want the Improved Cloaking Device II and a 10MN Microwarpdrive fitted.


That is a very tall order for a T1 industrial. To get that onto a Iteron III, you need max fitting skills and 3 MAPC. Less than max fitting skills and you will need some Ancillary Current Routers too.

Originally by: ShahFluffers

Instead...
- wait for about 30 seconds til the "session timer" (that innocuous little "spiral" circle in the upper left) expires
- select the gate 15km from you
- hit "Approach" and your MWD
- when 2000m from the gate spam the "Jump to" button



Or, right click on gate, choose Add Waypoint. Wait for session timer. Activate auto-pilot. When you de-cloak, hit the MWD. The auto-pilot will jump for you the microsecond you are in range.


ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
Posted - 2011.08.30 21:33:00 - [9]
 

Edited by: ShahFluffers on 30/08/2011 21:33:51
Originally by: Guillame Herschel
Edited by: Guillame Herschel on 30/08/2011 21:02:03
Originally by: ShahFluffers

If you ARE transporting goods in a hauler then you want the Improved Cloaking Device II and a 10MN Microwarpdrive fitted.


That is a very tall order for a T1 industrial. To get that onto a Iteron III, you need max fitting skills and 3 MAPC. Less than max fitting skills and you will need some Ancillary Current Routers too.



Indeed, it is quite difficult to do on most T1 Intys. But the requirements are there.
Like I said before, you can't use an Afterburner because it won't give the needed speed boost... the same is true with a 1MN Microwarpdrive. The good part is that if one pulls the MWD-Cloak trick correctly, there is no need for a tank or any other defensive measures (if you fail, you're a dead man anyways, so no point in a tank).

Originally by: Guillame Herschel

Originally by: ShahFluffers

Instead...
- wait for about 30 seconds til the "session timer" (that innocuous little "spiral" circle in the upper left) expires
- select the gate 15km from you
- hit "Approach" and your MWD
- when 2000m from the gate spam the "Jump to" button



Or, right click on gate, choose Add Waypoint. Wait for session timer. Activate auto-pilot. When you de-cloak, hit the MWD. The auto-pilot will jump for you the microsecond you are in range.




Ah yes... forgot about this. However I have noticed that the AP has a "slight" tendency to lag a bit or not work at all when you need it to ("Murphy" anyone?)

Soldarius
Caldari
Peek-A-Boo Bombers
Posted - 2011.08.31 02:17:00 - [10]
 

All of the above.

Darirol
Posted - 2011.08.31 02:38:00 - [11]
 

Edited by: Darirol on 31/08/2011 02:42:23
Edited by: Darirol on 31/08/2011 02:39:13
if you have a cloak fitted and a mwd fitted, there is tactic that has an effect that is close to instant warp.

this works even for larger ships. with enough nano stuff fitted you can apply this even to an battleship.

it works like this:
your ship warps to the lowsec gate. the scout reports ship type xy incoming(non covert op ship so no one is up for decloaking which is the weakpoint of this).
you jump in, click on the next gate, click aling to, click cloak, click mwd. put your finger over the F<number> button which is for your cloak and move your mouse over the warp to button in your target window.
now you have to wait for your mwd to cycle.
as soon as the cycle is going to end you have to decloak and press warp button until you are in warp.

how does this look for enemy gatecampers?

<scout> drake jumping to you
***drake decloaks and shows in enemy overview****
<fc> point it!
<grunt1> cant lock it
<grunt2> he seems to have a cloak
**** drake disapears from overview****
<fc> move to his last known position to decloak him
***of cause no one was ready to decloak and so this will take a while to check out where the drake was****
****after 10 seconds drakes shows in enemy overview again****
<fc> there it is, tackle it!
<grunt1> cant lock!
<grunt2> it warped away


and how does it work?

lets say your ship moves with 100m/s. you need 75m/s to warp.
now you hit cloak and you move with about 10m/s.
activate your mwd and you move with about 70m/s (overheating the mwd gives you a better performance because you move with more then 75m/s)
the mwd cycle is about to end, you decloak, your mwd switches of and you are aligned at 70% speed(with overheated mwd you are at 90% speed) and hit warp.

needs some practis, but as long as noone knows that you are up for this kind of stuff you can travel pretty save through lowsec.

with fast ships like a vaga you can even use it to move through 0.0 gatecamps, because you are fast enough to get out of bubble within 10 seconds

Sigion
Posted - 2011.09.02 01:07:00 - [12]
 

thats all great advice! thanks a lot :)


OilSlick Rick
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Posted - 2011.09.02 08:56:00 - [13]
 

The session timer is not enabled by default.
You must go into your options and enable it.

Larton Dretta
Posted - 2011.09.02 09:21:00 - [14]
 

If you have a cloak then you can always do MWD+Cloak and you'll be fine, just use a T2 cloak, the T1 speed penalty is too high, if you don't feel too comfortable then pick the celestial you're already most aligned too when doing it, this tactic is very easy to execute and extremely effective. If you see a large gang with a boosted tackler like an Onyx then you can always wait the session change timer and do the MWD+Cloak trick but back to the gate and jump back through, if you're in something tanky then let them attack you first so not everybody can jump with you.

USGAnthrax
Macedonian Phalanx
Posted - 2011.09.04 10:31:00 - [15]
 

3 tips working 100% :
- have a scout.
- use Cyno/Black Ops Cyno
- don't go to low sec

Easy no ? ;)

Tikera Tissant
Posted - 2011.09.04 12:32:00 - [16]
 

Edited by: Tikera Tissant on 04/09/2011 12:34:41
Originally by: Larton Dretta
If you have a cloak then you can always do MWD+Cloak and you'll be fine, just use a T2 cloak, the T1 speed penalty is too high, if you don't feel too comfortable then pick the celestial you're already most aligned too when doing it, this tactic is very easy to execute and extremely effective. If you see a large gang with a boosted tackler like an Onyx then you can always wait the session change timer and do the MWD+Cloak trick but back to the gate and jump back through, if you're in something tanky then let them attack you first so not everybody can jump with you.


There is no need for T2 cloak. You can use a T1.

Just to clarify that:
1. you are right, MWD+cloak is best.
2. The process is:

* When you jumped in, still cloaked, pick a destination (station, gate, planet, anything you can quickly click align and warp to).
* Click align, hit MWD and hit cloak (order is important).
* Now you are moving toward your destination slow, but 100% speed of the penalty, and cloaked so they will have a bit of time to figure out where you were a second ago.
* Just before MWD finish its cycle (about 8 seconds of wait), you stop your cloak, stop MWD, and spam warp to.
* This will get you instant warp, as you are: aligned, 100% speed.

I have used this tactics a few times with slow paper like tech I industrials.
Unless there is a bubble in your path of warp, or one right on top of you when you warped in, you will get away from the gate-keepers quite safe.

So to summarize:
align->mwd->cloak->wait a few seconds->uncloak->stop mwd->spam warp to.

Larton Dretta
Posted - 2011.09.04 13:53:00 - [17]
 

So i've no idea what you thought i ment when talking about MWD and cloak, nevertheless your order is incorrect. You should first hit align, then cloak, then MWD so nobody can take advantage of the fact your signature radius is enormous. Again, you shouldn't be using the T1 cloak simply because even if you're using a MWD you still won't reach the speed needed to warp instantly.

Sola Mercury
Posted - 2011.09.04 20:45:00 - [18]
 

Last time I checked it, you could stop MWD at any time, before next cycle, The MWD would finish its cycle anyway.
Also, the activated cloak wouldn't let you use MWD in cases it was not activated quickly enough. So my approach was align , mwd, cloak, deactivate mwd, just before mwd finishes cycle deactivate cloak hitting warp to.
But it may be, game mecanics have changed in the mean time.

Tikera Tissant
Posted - 2011.09.05 04:17:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Larton Dretta
You should first hit align, then cloak, then MWD


You are mistaken.
First off, you can't use MWD while cloaked. You have to hit it before you hit cloak. That way it will let you actually finish the MWD cycle.

Also you can use T1. You will get into the required speed, as long as you uncloak before MWD finish its cycle. Actual practive proves it works perfectly every time. When you uncloak, your speed goes back to 100%.

I'm using it to haul through low sec with an Iteron III (can't get the occator/viator yet) and on a noctis salvaging in 0.0, and I got away from a few camps using this trick (and died twice because I forgot to hit MWD before the cloak once, and once when they were quick enough to go next to me and uncloak me).

There is even a tutorial on you-tube on how to do it.

Anya Ohaya
Posted - 2011.09.06 00:17:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Tikera Tissant
Originally by: Larton Dretta
You should first hit align, then cloak, then MWD


You are mistaken.
First off, you can't use MWD while cloaked. You have to hit it before you hit cloak. That way it will let you actually finish the MWD cycle.

Also you can use T1. You will get into the required speed, as long as you uncloak before MWD finish its cycle. Actual practive proves it works perfectly every time. When you uncloak, your speed goes back to 100%.

I'm using it to haul through low sec with an Iteron III (can't get the occator/viator yet) and on a noctis salvaging in 0.0, and I got away from a few camps using this trick (and died twice because I forgot to hit MWD before the cloak once, and once when they were quick enough to go next to me and uncloak me).

There is even a tutorial on you-tube on how to do it.


This post is so full of wrong I'm going to assume you are trolling.

Bad Messenger
draketrain
Posted - 2011.09.06 01:21:00 - [21]
 

If you want to avoid lowsec gate camps do not go to lowsec.

Emperor Cheney
Celebrity Sex Tape
Posted - 2011.09.06 01:22:00 - [22]
 

Edited by: Emperor Cheney on 06/09/2011 01:34:42
Originally by: USGAnthrax
3 tips working 100% :

- don't go to low sec




Booooooooooo!

Low sec is incredibly safe if you 1) don't panic, 2) pay attention, and 3) fly in things that are agile. Lots of people on EVE forums act like lowsec is just this instant death apocalypse kind of situation. It's not. It really, really isn't.

edit to add: lowsec is generally pretty empty. There are a few places where camps might happen. Look at dotlan and see all the gates that go directly to highsec. Avoid jumping into those gates without a scout. Bam. Pretty much your entire gate camp situation just got solved. For the occasional small camp you run into just by chance, you will almost always be able to either warp out, or burn back to the gate successfully if you are flying something faster than a brick, or small enough to not get instalocked. Sometimes you will still get caught, but pretty rarely.

Another thing is that this lowsec paranoia works both ways. If it's a small number of ships doing the camp, they are going to be completely paranoid about falling for bait unless they have everything scouted out. This will generally make them hesitate, and in those seconds they are hesitating you can be burning half way back to get before the FC even greenlights engaging you. And on the other end, if you run into a large gate camp from a less than committed pirate corp, they probably are waiting for something else entirely, and the actual members who will care enough to try to lock you down and shoot you (and go GCC) is still just a handful.

Finally, there's gate guns. Dedicated campers in lowsec willing to go pirate are getting shot by gate guns constantly. This means that they are probably flying in BCs. So if you are in something fast enough to escape BCs, congratulations, you just escaped the gate camp.

In the 2, going on 3 years I've played this game I've been in lowsec almost the entire time, and I only died to gatecamps in that first year, and only a few times. All but 2 of those occasions, my cause of death was panic. I didn't wait out the timer, I didn't make the right decision (burn back verus burn away versus warp). The two times I died not due to panic, I died on the Ammamake Ossogur gate without using a scout.

Bad Messenger
draketrain
Posted - 2011.09.06 01:25:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Emperor Cheney
Originally by: USGAnthrax
3 tips working 100% :

- don't go to low sec




Booooooooooo!

Low sec is incredibly safe if you 1) don't panic, 2) pay attention, and 3) fly in things that are agile. Lots of people on EVE forums act like lowsec is just this instant death apocalypse kind of situation. It's not. It really, really isn't.


It is if you enter it from wrong gate. 99% of gates are quite safe, but people want to use those 1%.

Zadox Galston
Posted - 2011.09.06 03:53:00 - [24]
 

Edited by: Zadox Galston on 06/09/2011 03:53:42
Nano covert ops, stay in warp, profit.


p.s. They cant bubble so as long as you can get in warp before locked you will be fine.

And on that note, any ship you can get into warp in under 3 sec will be fine (agility fitted frigates any one?)

Xearal
Minmatar
SOL Industries
Black Thorne Alliance
Posted - 2011.09.06 13:21:00 - [25]
 

Welcome to the fun side of hauling in Eve Sigion.

The above mentined advice ( except not going ) is all good. I myself use a Prowler a lot, covert ops cloak + 2 second align time = so long suckers, better luck next time!(yeah right :) ).

I've been caught a few times in null sec, partly due to inexperience, partly due to messing up, and a couple of times because the other guy outsmarted me.

I'll give you another bit of advice, though this is really more somethign for when you're in null sec.
DEFENDER MISSILES.

Now, every PvPer will go WTF? LOL!
A prowler has a 2nd high slot, the first is your cloak, the second you can fit a missile launcher. now a single launcher isn't going to kill anybody, however, with defender missiles, you can use it to blow up incoming missiles, and they're quite good at this. The reason they're generally not used is because for a combat ship, it's better to pew pew the other guy, and in fleets they're useless as well because they can only be used against missiles fired at you( and ofcourse, because they ONLY are useable on missiles)
However, in this situation, they're a perfect Last Ditch defense mechanism because A) you're alone, B) you don't have the firepower to make a dent in a packet of warm butter anyway, C) You have no other use for that slot otherwise anyway.

In low sec, when in a camp, and flying a prowler, there's really only 2 choices you have, fly back to the gate or try and warp away.
Option 2 is usually the best one, though if they spammed the place with cans and you won't have a clear route till you warp(hence can't cloak), going back would be the other option.

In null sec, it can be a little trickier as you can get caught in bubbles there. There are 2 ways of setting up bubbles. the first is the 'drag bubble' where they set ap a bubble about 100km or so away from the gate, but in the same line as where people usually come from. This causes you to get dragged into the bubble instead of ending your warp at the gate.
To avoid these, use safespots around the gates, far away but on grid. anywhere between 150-500km will do. Set these up with a covert frig, and put them in places where you'd not be aiming yourself at a possible warp bubble. This way, when you warp to this spot, you won't get dragged into the bubble, and then from there you can warp to the gate itself.

The other kind of bubble is the bubble that is put over the gate area, covering the places where people pop in at 15km off the gate. This is done either by putting up some static bubbles around the place, or by an interdictor class ship with a warp bubble launcher. Either way, the situation you're in if you get caught by these is you're 15km away from a gate, and you can't warp off, and there's people nearby.
The best way to avoid this situation is to use a scout, so you know it's there and can avoid it while your scout dies a gruesome death.
The 2nd best option is dodging them when you're caught.
Obviously you can't warp, but if you can cloak, you can try and sneak your way out of the bubble, then warp off.( as I tend to fly without a scout, this is my usual option, if you check my killboard, you will find that it's not always successfull)
To do this requires manual piloting, a grasp of 3D flying, and trajectories of ships, gauging their maneuverability and speed and a lot of guts.
Since it takes a couple of seconds to dissapear again, simply flying off in a direction and hitting cloak is not going to cut it here, because the logical thign for them to do is fly manually to where you're probably going and find you. As such, the first thing you should do is decloak, and make them think you're going into a direction. As soon as the cloak is fully active ( aka 2 seconds later ), you change direction into the way you really want to go, possible more than once, while working your way out of the bubble. If you get lucky/outsmart them you will be able to exit the bubble and warp off, and possibly get a new set of underwear.YARRRR!!


 

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