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blankseplocked So...about those *EMERGENCY* CSM Meeting Minutes...
 
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Sadayiel
Caldari
Inner Conflict
Posted - 2011.09.04 17:05:00 - [181]
 

Originally by: RougeOperator
The Flat number is going to go down slowly as peoples prepaid time expires. I myself sadly have like 9 months of time left cause i bought a year just before incarna came out and feel like a fool for doing so.


Seems good to me if eve gets back to 2005-2006 population then there will be less blobs moar solo roam, add the attempts of CCP to reboot EVE and encourage the playerbase will benefit the long time players.

SilentSkills
Gallente
Tax Evaders Inc.
Posted - 2011.09.04 17:06:00 - [182]
 

Originally by: RougeOperator
The Flat number is going to go down slowly as peoples prepaid time expires. I myself sadly have like 9 months of time left cause i bought a year just before incarna came out and feel like a fool for doing so.

same here, they have until January to fix the game, else 2 accounts gone.

Officer Spawn
Posted - 2011.09.04 18:14:00 - [183]
 

I'm curious who this mysterious re-writer at CCP is. Was he at the meetings and simply remembers things differently then the rest or is he CCP WinstonSmith who compares the minutes to the official line and throws everything that does not match down the memory hole ?

Ravcharas
GREY COUNCIL
Nulli Secunda
Posted - 2011.09.04 18:51:00 - [184]
 

CCP Fearless

Iden Secundus
Posted - 2011.09.04 19:09:00 - [185]
 

Originally by: Ciar Meara
Originally by: Eclorc
Originally by: Barbelo Valentinian
Originally by: AnzacPaul
Trebor has made a blog with his thoughts, to add to seleenes and mittani


http://treborofthecsm.blogspot.com/


That's an excellent post: very revealing, while still maintaining the proper decorum.



Well, that blog says it all really.

I've got less than a week left on my account time now, have only been feeding skillqueue for all this time in vain hopes of something turning around with CCP's stance on things.
Yeah, deluded I know.
[...]
Bye Eve, you were a great friend until you changed. I know I won't be missed.
I'll be back if Nexon store leaves the game. Fat chance.



Same here, I have until november.


...18.09.2011 - 2 accounts
And I'm sure, I will be back in some month...
But only with Plex - never again with payed subscription (why to spend money for game in stagnation?). Yes, this will CCP not help, but who cares... ?
___
...each quarter one Plex per account for 3xx Mill - estimated final end: 2016..2018?

Aemmaria
Posted - 2011.09.04 19:26:00 - [186]
 

Edited by: Aemmaria on 04/09/2011 19:27:10
Edited by: Aemmaria on 04/09/2011 19:26:01
CCP are liars, amongst their other fatal flaws. Their natural reaction is to hope that players are even bigger idiots than them - and in that they may succeed. Common least denominator, etc.

And when you find even bigger idiot than yourself, you suddenly may feel ingenious and start tapping each other. This is what CCP is doing right now.

Last account down.

divanoo
Posted - 2011.09.04 19:33:00 - [187]
 

Originally by: Aemmaria
Edited by: Aemmaria on 04/09/2011 19:27:10
Edited by: Aemmaria on 04/09/2011 19:26:01
CCP are liars, amongst their other fatal flaws. Their natural reaction is to hope that players are even bigger idiots than them - and in that they may succeed. Common least denominator, etc.

And when you find even bigger idiot than yourself, you suddenly may feel ingenious and start tapping each other. This is what CCP is doing right now.

Last account down.


wahh wahh wahh wahh

wahh wahh wahh

J Kunjeh
Gallente
Posted - 2011.09.04 19:43:00 - [188]
 

I have to agree with the naysayers here. It's an absolute shame that it's taken this long for the meeting minutes from the summit. CCP is so horribly, horribly awful at communication these days that it's like watching a train-wreck. I'm one of CCP's biggest fanboi's, and every day that goes by with these forums in such a deplorable state, communication between CCP and the fans in such a slump, I too start to feel like CCP has completely lost their way. I'm not one to be all doom and gloom, because I think things could turn around in an instant, but I'm slowly losing faith in CCP's ability (nay, desire) to do anything about it.

Di Mulle
Posted - 2011.09.04 19:44:00 - [189]
 

Originally by: divanoo


wahh wahh wahh wahh

wahh wahh wahh


I love your creative response, dear. Lots of effort you put in cannot be missed.

Will send you some ISK for your work.

divanoo
Posted - 2011.09.04 19:45:00 - [190]
 

Originally by: Di Mulle
Originally by: divanoo


wahh wahh wahh wahh

wahh wahh wahh


I love your creative response, dear. Lots of effort you put in cannot be missed.

Will send you some ISK for your work.


thanks bro

Di Mulle
Posted - 2011.09.04 20:18:00 - [191]
 

Originally by: divanoo
[

thanks bro


My pleasure. Use them wisely.

Cailais
Amarr
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
Talocan United
Posted - 2011.09.04 21:12:00 - [192]
 

I think the CSM should publish their minutes and then CCP can bother / not bother to publish theirs depending upon how high it reaches on their "giveaf**ckometer"

C.


AnzacPaul
Perkone
Posted - 2011.09.04 21:47:00 - [193]
 

Edited by: AnzacPaul on 04/09/2011 21:49:35
Originally by: Officer Spawn
I'm curious who this mysterious re-writer at CCP is. Was he at the meetings and simply remembers things differently then the rest or is he CCP WinstonSmith who compares the minutes to the official line and throws everything that does not match down the memory hole ?


I'm unsure who is re-writing them, but I think a few pages back CCP Xhagen stated he was in charge of getting them released.....


Edit: appears it is Xhagen, as per first page in this thread

Linkage

Louis deGuerre
Gallente
Malevolence.
Posted - 2011.09.04 22:05:00 - [194]
 

Originally by: Flamespar
CCP wants to add its spin
CSM wants to add its spin
Players want to spin ships


You win the internetz Razz

Steph Wing
Gallente
The Graduates
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2011.09.04 23:22:00 - [195]
 

Willing to bet the reason we haven't heard anything is because CCP is hunkered down in its trenches waiting for the storm to pass.

Y'know, like they said they weren't going to do anymore.

Jason1138
Posted - 2011.09.04 23:23:00 - [196]
 

"Seems good to me if eve gets back to 2005-2006 population then there will be less blobs moar solo roam, add the attempts of CCP to reboot EVE and encourage the playerbase will benefit the long time players."


oh yeah totally. i hope it gets down to 300-500 people. that will really help the game in the long run *rolls eyes*


"moar solo roam" with less people around = less solo roam once you figure out there's no one around to fight, btw

Sullen Skoung
Posted - 2011.09.05 00:47:00 - [197]
 

Originally by: Mag's
Originally by: Thornat
The CSM or someone at CCP should just leak the minutes and let **** hit the fan. In all honesty the more CCP is humbled the better it will be for the game in the long run. Right now CCP believe themselves to be these super successful, untouchable entity that has the best sandbox game on the market leaving them in a position of infinite clout which they can use anyway they see fit. They need to have the rug pulled from under them and brought down to earth so perhaps they might realize that their success is firmly in the palms of the players and we decide wether or not they have a future.

Every day there are fewer and fewer people logging into Eve and every day more and more long time friends are playing less and less, some leaving outright. Its a sad state of affairs and the whole thing is just one big ****ing contest between the community and CCP, a contest which will result in everyone loosing simultanously. Their is no victory for the community if CCP and Eve fail as both a company and as a game, and certainly their is no victory if CCP gets their way and the community abandons them.

The failure of CCP management right now is so vivid and outragous I'm really suprised that heads aren't rolling. This situation needs to be resolved definitively, CCP needs to re-affirm their commitment to the game, re-organize their plans and start thinking like players not businessmen. If they do that, they might just make all that money they are hoping on making, but as long as they continue to **** of the community and people continue to leave the game nothing they do or say matters. They have to cataroize this bleeding wound and you start by publicy apologizing, showing some humility and making a new commitment to do better, following that up by sticking to the commitment.

CCP managers need to get their **** together fast before this whole thing goes to a point beyond saving.

This. But they won't change, because certain types at the top believe they are so right.



Quote:
Having the perspective of having done this for a decade, I can tell you that this is one of the moments where we look at what our players do and less of what they say


like that guy?

Elyssa MacLeod
Posted - 2011.09.05 00:54:00 - [198]
 

Originally by: divanoo



wahh wahh wahh wahh

wahh wahh wahh


cool story brah umad?

Major Stallion
The Money Shot Inc.
Posted - 2011.09.05 04:29:00 - [199]
 

keepin this alive til CCP posts unadulterated CSM EMERGENCY SUMMIT minutes.

Sullen Skoung
Posted - 2011.09.05 04:47:00 - [200]
 

CMON MITTENS
Be a real Goon an leak the minutes
Not this pretend Goon in bed with CCP crap lol

Officer Spawn
Posted - 2011.09.05 06:15:00 - [201]
 

Originally by: AnzacPaul
Edited by: AnzacPaul on 04/09/2011 21:49:35
Originally by: Officer Spawn
I'm curious who this mysterious re-writer at CCP is. Was he at the meetings and simply remembers things differently then the rest or is he CCP WinstonSmith who compares the minutes to the official line and throws everything that does not match down the memory hole ?


I'm unsure who is re-writing them, but I think a few pages back CCP Xhagen stated he was in charge of getting them released.....


Edit: appears it is Xhagen, as per first page in this thread

Linkage


Not Xhagen, he made the draft. According to Trebor and Xhagen it went like this:

-Meetings
-Xhagen makes minutes, sends them to CSM for review
-CSM makes minor adjustments, sends them back to Xhagen
-Xhagen sends minutes to CCP Minitrue, where our mystery man takes the Red Pen and rewrites them
-CSM gets the rewritten minutes and goes bananas
-CCP keeps sending minor adjustments to the minutes rather then adressing the falsification that has taken place

And here we are now, another week of silence from CCP and hurf blurf from Mittens to look forward to.

Tanaka Sekigahara
United Space Marine Corp
Posted - 2011.09.05 06:39:00 - [202]
 

Originally by: CCP Xhagen
Originally by: Thornat
I don't think they get what meeting minutes are about, so just for clarification. You write down what was said. Period. Its not something you fluff up that requires proper editing to capture some kind of "tone". Its just information. The meeting happened, people said stuff... you write the **** down. If you edit it, its not meeting minutes, its fluff and we already got more of that than I care to read. If I have to read another ******ed Devblog about 1000 jeans I'm going to shoot myself in the face.

See here for another thread about the matter.

Originally by: Thornat
You write down what was said.
I think everyone can agree that direct transcription of text is as uncomfortable to read as things get. And since all expressions, tone of voice and handwaving is absent in the text a lot of information is lost by that method. Thus, we summarize the discussions when we write up the minutes, we mostly say 'CSM' and 'CCP' instead of saying specific names, a response follows a question or a comment, group the relevant discussion into one section in stead of having it going all over the place (like happens when talking to someone), etc. And that is where things start to get difficult, specially when the subject is of the nature like the June topic was.

We are getting pretty good at writing up minutes from CSM/CCP meetings, just some topics take more time than other. And this is one of those topics.

Soooo..., because a direct transcription is "uncomfortable" ( for who?)we won't get them? I think thats the point that everyone is making. We are of the belief that a direct transcription would indeed be uncomfortable, but only for CCP, and those who represented it at that meeting ( thus why names are redacted.We already have a summary. We want the minutes because we doubt your word and CCP doesnt have credibility on the issue of being Honest foand forthcoming.This is why we want the minutes. Why does CCP have to release the minutes?? Wasn't it a CSM meeting?? if so why is CCP in charge of the minutes. Seems to me should be a matter for the CSM, niot CCP. People cant see whats going on if they dont get the basic point that it should never have been under CCPs purveil in the first place to release the minutes, unless of course the impklicit implication is that the CSM answers to CCP and is nothing more than a PR mouthpiece.

The CSM should just release the minutes independently and post a link.Let CCP censor it.Then we see where we really stand, if the CSM has the goolies to do it and if CCP has the goolies to let the link stand, even if they wont post the minutes on their own website.CSM has no legitimacy or credibility if they dont independently publish the minutes.

Kengutsi Akira
Posted - 2011.09.05 06:41:00 - [203]
 

Edited by: Kengutsi Akira on 05/09/2011 06:43:17
Originally by: Sullen Skoung
CMON MITTENS
Be a real Goon an leak the minutes
Not this pretend Goon in bed with CCP crap lol


lol mittens actually work against CCP instead of kissing ass? No way!
He's not a rebel, he's a conformist

an as for the CCP/CSM crap, apparently "tone" means "blame"
I fully expect to get them once everyone forgets they ever existed

Tanaka Sekigahara
United Space Marine Corp
Posted - 2011.09.05 06:45:00 - [204]
 

Edited by: Tanaka Sekigahara on 05/09/2011 06:50:33
Edited by: Tanaka Sekigahara on 05/09/2011 06:47:26
Originally by: Tanaka Sekigahara
Originally by: CCP Xhagen
Originally by: Thornat
I don't think they get what meeting minutes are about, so just for clarification. You write down what was said. Period. Its not something you fluff up that requires proper editing to capture some kind of "tone". Its just information. The meeting happened, people said stuff... you write the **** down. If you edit it, its not meeting minutes, its fluff and we already got more of that than I care to read. If I have to read another ******ed Devblog about 1000 jeans I'm going to shoot myself in the face.

See here for another thread about the matter.

Originally by: Thornat
You write down what was said.
I think everyone can agree that direct transcription of text is as uncomfortable to read as things get. And since all expressions, tone of voice and and waving is absent in the text a lot of information is lost by that method. Thus, we summarize the discussions when we write up the minutes, we mostly say 'CSM' and 'CCP' instead of saying specific names, a response follows a question or a comment, group the relevant discussion into one section in stead of having it going all over the place (like happens when talking to someone), etc. And that is where things start to get difficult, specially when the subject is of the nature like the June topic was.

We are getting pretty good at writing up minutes from CSM/CCP meetings, just some topics take more time than other. And this is one of those topics.

Soooo..., because a direct transcription is "uncomfortable" ( for who?)we won't get them? I think that's the point that everyone is making. We are of the belief that a direct transcription would indeed be uncomfortable, but only for CCP, and those who represented it at that meeting ( thus why names are redacted).We already have a summary. We want the minutes because we doubt your word and CCP doesnt have credibility on the issue of being Honest and forthcoming.This is why we want the minutes.

Why does CCP have to release the minutes?? Wasn't it a CSM meeting?? if so why is CCP in charge of the minutes?? Seems to me it should be a matter for the CSM, not CCP. People can't see whats going on if they don't get the basic point that it should never have been under CCPs purveil in the first place to release the minutes, unless of course the implicit implication is that the CSM answers to CCP and is nothing more than a PR mouthpiece.

The CSM should just release the minutes independently and post a link.Let CCP censor it.Then we see where we really stand, if the CSM has the goolies to do it and if CCP has the goolies to let the link stand, even if they wont post the minutes on their own website.CSM has no legitimacy or credibility if they dont independently publish the minutes. as an aside it's clear that YOU don't get what the purpose of the minutes is. it is a historical record that can be referred to as to what was actually said.people never record faces and gestures in minutes. That is not their purpose, nor should a record of the minutes be used to further make the case for CCPs position by some agrement as to what people actually menat and what their intent was.These are not included in minutes and are not part of minutes. You sir, need to refer to a definition of meeting minutes. They are not to be altered or changed or edited. If so then they are no longer minutes, they are something else.They exist to be a record of what was said, specifically so people can form their own opinions, and not have them interpreted for them.

Ciar Meara
Amarr
Virtus Vindice
Posted - 2011.09.05 10:08:00 - [205]
 

I prefer truth over spin. If these CSM minutes are doctored we will see the truth quickly enough when we read them most of us are quite savvy, we figured out how to play eve without any help from CCP, rather dispite them.

With the CSM being truthfull about this its hard for CCP to put a PR spin on the story with their truthiness.

Chorone
Posted - 2011.09.05 10:40:00 - [206]
 

Bet this is like the Gallente election Laughing

El'Niaga
Minmatar
Republic Military School
Posted - 2011.09.05 10:53:00 - [207]
 

Do you really think they'll release them?

It was a PR move nothing more.

DeBingJos
Minmatar
Goat Holdings
Posted - 2011.09.05 10:54:00 - [208]
 

I'm waiting for the leaked CSM notes.

Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
Posted - 2011.09.05 10:58:00 - [209]
 

Originally by: Sullen Skoung
Originally by: Mag's
But they won't change, because certain types at the top believe they are so right.



Quote:
Having the perspective of having done this for a decade, I can tell you that this is one of the moments where we look at what our players do and less of what they say


like that guy?
Yes, without a doubt. Pride comes before a fall.

Living Dead Girl
Posted - 2011.09.05 11:01:00 - [210]
 

Edited by: Living Dead Girl on 05/09/2011 11:01:19
Originally by: Sullen Skoung
CMON MITTENS
Be a real Goon an leak the minutes
Not this pretend Goon in bed with CCP crap lol



He wont. He knows he'll do more good for the people he represents (goons) if he keeps his chair.



*edit* damn, missed the snipe. Embarassed



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