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blankseplocked So...about those *EMERGENCY* CSM Meeting Minutes...
 
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Strider Hiryu
Kangaroos With Frickin Lazerbeams
Ninja Unicorns with Huge Horns
Posted - 2011.09.01 15:23:00 - [121]
 

/NOT HAPPY

bring back my ship in station!

WeirdNoise
Caldari
tagueuletoi
Posted - 2011.09.01 15:40:00 - [122]
 

Originally by: Thornat
We don't want the in game items appearing on the NEX store, the question is, are their plans to do just that.


NO.
"Are there plans ?" is the perfect unaccountable, unliable question and it leads to its obvious "of course not, dear gullible sheeple" answer.

CCP can release later what they claimed "not having plans to implement" without breaking its word : they just figured out "plans" after having denie dhaving any, duh.

This is a non-binding statement, typical PR stunt.
And it worked, one just has to peruse the "CCP issues a statement after its meeting with CSM" sticky thread to confirm it.
CCP is right to treat its customers as idiotic children because it works.

A binding statement would be : "We will never implement any P2W."
But obviously, when you read their insider newsletter you know this just would be impossible.

Steph Wing
Gallente
The Graduates
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2011.09.01 18:43:00 - [123]
 

For those of you who haven't heard, Seleene has made a blog post.

http://seleenes-sandbox.blogspot.com/2011/08/csm-emergency-summit-aftermath.html

Aniete Hetheres
Posted - 2011.09.01 20:00:00 - [124]
 

Edited by: Aniete Hetheres on 01/09/2011 20:00:32
Originally by: CCP Xhagen


Originally by: Thornat
You write down what was said.
I think everyone can agree that direct transcription of text is as uncomfortable to read as things get. And since all expressions, tone of voice and handwaving is absent in the text a lot of information is lost by that method. Thus, we summarize the discussions when we write up the minutes, we mostly say 'CSM' and 'CCP' instead of saying specific names, a response follows a question or a comment, group the relevant discussion into one section in stead of having it going all over the place (like happens when talking to someone), etc. And that is where things start to get difficult, specially when the subject is of the nature like the June topic was.

We are getting pretty good at writing up minutes from CSM/CCP meetings, just some topics take more time than other. And this is one of those topics.


Here's an idea. Why not a video, or an audio recording then? You can edit out anything you need to for NDA purposes and have subtitles in different languages. Tone of voice and bodily expression (in my experience) transcends language barriers. Thoughts? Objections? I can't imagine you guys don't already have all this kind of footage on hand.

{edit for fail sentence}

Sullen Skoung
Posted - 2011.09.01 20:06:00 - [125]
 

Originally by: Major Stallion
Originally by: Sullen Skoung

nice to know you take this seriously lol


in fairness, even if Two Step WASNT taking this seriously, would you really blame him? I mean CCP isnt taking CSM seriously, so why should any of them take it seriously?


hence the thread where I asked why the hell we even NEED them anymore

SexxxSlave
Posted - 2011.09.01 20:09:00 - [126]
 

Originally by: Trolls Troll
Anyone want to take bets on how long before mins are released?


:18months:

Elyssa MacLeod
Posted - 2011.09.01 20:15:00 - [127]
 

Edited by: Elyssa MacLeod on 01/09/2011 20:23:28
Edited by: Elyssa MacLeod on 01/09/2011 20:22:19

Originally by: Steph Wing
For those of you who haven't heard, Seleene has made a blog post.

http://seleenes-sandbox.blogspot.com/2011/08/csm-emergency-summit-aftermath.html


Quote:
I'd be really curious to know if Fearless has been fearlessly cancelled for fear that another one would be fearlessly leaked.


I lolled

Quote:
So, what is the problem? It all seems to be about CCP wanting to represent 'factually' what happened versus the CSM wanting to do the same while still holding CCP to account for what caused the summit to take place to begin with. My feelings on it all are disappointing to say the least. If not for the haggling over 'tone' the minutes would have been out over a month ago.


I feel "tone" isnt the word thats supposed to be used here bu I feel that if another word were used this CSM would get in trouble lol

Quote:
While I know all of this is being done with the best intentions, this seeming debate about what the CSM can or cannot say or how we say it is getting old. What annoys me the most is that Mittens did the little video with Zulu and, aside from that and the 'official joint statement', there has been nothing else come of all this in two months. This continual editing back and forth and the adjustments for 'tone' just screams spin spin spin to anyone with even a passing interest in the process.


holy crap a CSM that might actually NOT be a CCP puppet lol

Quote:
As I noted earlier, some of us are still very much at odds with several aspects of what took place and the longer this "review" goes on the less faith I have that the CSM is what Hilmar likes to say we are (a bull**** detector). Between summer and trying to be patient I, and others, have held our tongue in the hope that the marketing speak would tone down. That rope is almost played out because I feel like we're being strung along indefinitely until CCP hopes we submit to whatever they want the minutes to say out of sheer resignation. That is not going to happen.


Again, holy crap, a csm that might also be starting to see that their group is useless

Quote:
Itís understandable that CCP is concerned about how the summit is factually represented to the public, but the CSM was elected by EVE players to represent EVE players and speak back to them as their elected peers.


I keep seeing something hinting that the ppl that voted arent the people that think they voted or somesuch

Esan Vartesa
East Khanid Trading
Khanid Trade Syndicate
Posted - 2011.09.01 21:26:00 - [128]
 


This type of thing happens a lot when the minutes of a contentious meeting are vetted by both sides before being released.

Do you know what usually happens when it drags on for too long?

Someone leaks the originals.


Sullen Skoung
Posted - 2011.09.01 21:54:00 - [129]
 

Originally by: Esan Vartesa

This type of thing happens a lot when the minutes of a contentious meeting are vetted by both sides before being released.

Do you know what usually happens when it drags on for too long?

Someone leaks the originals.




now THAAAAT would be both be funny and prove the CSM arent CCP puppets lol

Hamatitio
Caldari
Aperture Harmonics
K162
Posted - 2011.09.01 21:56:00 - [130]
 

So um, did anyone else notice the following:

Originally by: Seleene's Sandbox
As I mentioned previously, while I was unable to physically attend the emergency summit, I was on Skype for most of the sessions (got up at 4am one morning, ugh) and then watched the video recordings of the whole affair once they were available


So the video recordings of the entire meeting are available. There is nothing to edit out, no tone to set. The video will display the tone as accurately as if we were standing next to you in the meeting.

Post the videos.

Sullen Skoung
Posted - 2011.09.01 22:20:00 - [131]
 

Originally by: Hamatitio
So um, did anyone else notice the following:

Originally by: Seleene's Sandbox
As I mentioned previously, while I was unable to physically attend the emergency summit, I was on Skype for most of the sessions (got up at 4am one morning, ugh) and then watched the video recordings of the whole affair once they were available


So the video recordings of the entire meeting are available. There is nothing to edit out, no tone to set. The video will display the tone as accurately as if we were standing next to you in the meeting.

Post the videos.



But it wont have the "tone" that CCP wants :D

Sidus Isaacs
Gallente
Posted - 2011.09.01 22:45:00 - [132]
 

Originally by: Stitcher
Edited by: Stitcher on 30/08/2011 12:20:01
Originally by: CCP Xhagen
Originally by: Harlot Hohannson
i watch what you do, not what you say. so far i see nothing.
Fair enough.


See, and right here is proof that the devs have way better PR skills than I ever would, beause my response to that would have been to call Harlot out on how incredibly b*tchy that statement was. Guess if I worked for CCP they'd have to forbid me from going anywhere near the forums.


Most of the devs are alright guys, its the top brass at CCP that is doing all the massing up.

Nin Kimrov
Minmatar
Kenzi Arms and Munitions
Posted - 2011.09.02 00:30:00 - [133]
 

So? Where are those emergency minutes?

Sullen Skoung
Posted - 2011.09.02 01:22:00 - [134]
 

Originally by: Sidus Isaacs
Originally by: Stitcher
Edited by: Stitcher on 30/08/2011 12:20:01
Originally by: CCP Xhagen
Originally by: Harlot Hohannson
i watch what you do, not what you say. so far i see nothing.
Fair enough.


See, and right here is proof that the devs have way better PR skills than I ever would, beause my response to that would have been to call Harlot out on how incredibly b*tchy that statement was. Guess if I worked for CCP they'd have to forbid me from going anywhere near the forums.


Most of the devs are alright guys, its the top brass at CCP that is doing all the massing up.


Yeah, I hear T20 was a nice guy. Helped out his friends........

AnzacPaul
Perkone
Posted - 2011.09.02 05:42:00 - [135]
 

Bumping this for some CCP action. What happened to better communication?

If the minutes are that bad CCP, you know you've messed up.

Generous Benefactor
Posted - 2011.09.02 05:52:00 - [136]
 

This whole topic is a laughable disgrace. Over 3 months to publish a set of meeting minutes because the company continually wants to edit the tone? This just shows how utterly ****ing incompetent they are at managing communications and responding to the challenge to be more transparent with their customers.

The irony is they've done the complete opposite of what they needed to do to restore faith with their customers.

Whatever CCP elects to publish, it's too late, the damage is done all over again and the cycle of fail repeats itself. If I were an investor I'd be very worried.

AnzacPaul
Perkone
Posted - 2011.09.02 05:54:00 - [137]
 

Edited by: AnzacPaul on 02/09/2011 05:55:16

Flamespar
Posted - 2011.09.02 06:12:00 - [138]
 

Originally by: Steph Wing
For those of you who haven't heard, Seleene has made a blog post.

http://seleenes-sandbox.blogspot.com/2011/08/csm-emergency-summit-aftermath.html


Read it. Here is a summary.

CCP wants to add its spin
CSM wants to add its spin
Players want to spin ships

Trolls Troll
Posted - 2011.09.02 06:14:00 - [139]
 

Originally by: Flamespar


Read it. Here is a summary.

CCP wants to add its spin
CSM wants to add its spin
Players want to spin ships


you sure this isnt a leaked copy of the emergency summit minutes Cool

Sullen Skoung
Posted - 2011.09.02 06:16:00 - [140]
 

Originally by: Generous Benefactor
This whole topic is a laughable disgrace. Over 3 months to publish a set of meeting minutes because the company continually wants to edit the tone? This just shows how utterly ****ing incompetent they are at managing communications and responding to the challenge to be more transparent with their customers.

The irony is they've done the complete opposite of what they needed to do to restore faith with their customers.

Whatever CCP elects to publish, it's too late, the damage is done all over again and the cycle of fail repeats itself. If I were an investor I'd be very worried.


well no, as it really seems, the CSM want to edit the minutes so CCP is held responsible for their actions and CCP are basically saying "yeah **** that"

RougeOperator
Posted - 2011.09.02 06:17:00 - [141]
 

All that needs to be said is if they are editing it in any way the document is worthless since every aspect of it is now in doubt due to said editing.

I can understand a little tag line like removed for NDA and or Trade secret. But that should only take a week at most.

At this point anything we get is as good as toilet paper.

Flamespar
Posted - 2011.09.02 06:19:00 - [142]
 

Edited by: Flamespar on 02/09/2011 06:19:23
Originally by: Generous Benefactor

well no, as it really seems, the CSM want to edit the minutes so CCP is held responsible for their actions and CCP are basically saying "yeah **** that"


Yes, both CCP and CSM are holding up the release of these minutes. Blame both parties for being unable to get their sh*t together if you need to blame anyone.


Pr1ncess Alia
Posted - 2011.09.02 06:24:00 - [143]
 

Originally by: Flamespar
Edited by: Flamespar on 02/09/2011 06:19:23
Originally by: Generous Benefactor

well no, as it really seems, the CSM want to edit the minutes so CCP is held responsible for their actions and CCP are basically saying "yeah **** that"


Yes, both CCP and CSM are holding up the release of these minutes. Blame both parties for being unable to get their sh*t together if you need to blame anyone.




another post you'll need to clarify.

The CSM's job, per CCP CEO himself is "bull**** detector".

Now CCP wants the CSM to be ok with bull****ting the community about the realities of the meeting and the reasons for it.

So you're saying is: We should blame the CSM for trying to do their job instead of just rolling over for CCP in hopes of expediting meeting minutes that in CCP's PR spin-machine version will not actually reflect the meeting?

troll harder

Sullen Skoung
Posted - 2011.09.02 06:28:00 - [144]
 

Originally by: Flamespar
Edited by: Flamespar on 02/09/2011 06:19:23
Originally by: Generous Benefactor

well no, as it really seems, the CSM want to edit the minutes so CCP is held responsible for their actions and CCP are basically saying "yeah **** that"


Yes, both CCP and CSM are holding up the release of these minutes. Blame both parties for being unable to get their sh*t together if you need to blame anyone.




I have a blog from a CSM that puts the blame on CCP I havent seen a blog from CCP blaming the CSM or Id revise my opinion.
Provide me with a link an Ill change that statement, otherwise thats just your opinion.

Flamespar
Posted - 2011.09.02 06:33:00 - [145]
 

As if CCP would post a blog suggesting that CSM is holding things up.

My point whilst it seems the popular choice to blame everything on CCP. In this process. Both CSM and CCP need to come to an agreement. Both groups are complicit in the delay.

Learn to reason.

AmarrPriceStamp Lazair
Posted - 2011.09.02 06:44:00 - [146]
 

Edited by: AmarrPriceStamp Lazair on 02/09/2011 06:44:07
Originally by: Flamespar
As if CCP would post a blog suggesting that CSM is holding things up.

My point whilst it seems the popular choice to blame everything on CCP. In this process. Both CSM and CCP need to come to an agreement. Both groups are complicit in the delay.

Learn to reason.


I don't think you see the actual reason here.

Didn't you see Zulu's blogs and haven't you read the blog from a member of CSM that pretty much reveal the reality of CSM Minute? And btw, even Nex were introduced.

There is no blame on CSM and the blame is more on CCP. CCP just drag CSM out and waste their time with pouring some b******ts on them.

Sullen Skoung
Posted - 2011.09.02 06:45:00 - [147]
 

Edited by: Sullen Skoung on 02/09/2011 06:48:52
Originally by: Flamespar


Learn to assume.


fixt that for you cause without proof thats what youre doing

Quote:
as∑sume    [uh-soom] Show IPA verb, -sumed, -sum∑ing. verb (used with object) 1. to take for granted or without proof; suppose; postulate; posit:

SexxxSlave
Posted - 2011.09.02 07:28:00 - [148]
 

i will not rest until these minutes have been delivered

oematoema
Posted - 2011.09.02 07:40:00 - [149]
 

This could just turn out to be the next threadnought, nice test for the new forums.

Thornat
Posted - 2011.09.02 08:08:00 - [150]
 

Edited by: Thornat on 02/09/2011 08:09:43
The CSM or someone at CCP should just leak the minutes and let **** hit the fan. In all honesty the more CCP is humbled the better it will be for the game in the long run. Right now CCP believe themselves to be these super successful, untouchable entity that has the best sandbox game on the market leaving them in a position of infinite clout which they can use anyway they see fit. They need to have the rug pulled from under them and brought down to earth so perhaps they might realize that their success is firmly in the palms of the players and we decide wether or not they have a future.

Every day there are fewer and fewer people logging into Eve and every day more and more long time friends are playing less and less, some leaving outright. Its a sad state of affairs and the whole thing is just one big ****ing contest between the community and CCP, a contest which will result in everyone loosing simultanously. Their is no victory for the community if CCP and Eve fail as both a company and as a game, and certainly their is no victory if CCP gets their way and the community abandons them.

The failure of CCP management right now is so vivid and outragous I'm really suprised that heads aren't rolling. This situation needs to be resolved definitively, CCP needs to re-affirm their commitment to the game, re-organize their plans and start thinking like players not businessmen. If they do that, they might just make all that money they are hoping on making, but as long as they continue to **** of the community and people continue to leave the game nothing they do or say matters. They have to cataroize this bleeding wound and you start by publicy apologizing, showing some humility and making a new commitment to do better, following that up by sticking to the commitment.

CCP managers need to get their **** together fast before this whole thing goes to a point beyond saving.


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