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blankseplocked So...about those *EMERGENCY* CSM Meeting Minutes...
 
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SexxxSlave
Posted - 2011.08.29 19:54:00 - [1]
 

Almost 3 months have passed since the infamous monoclegate, CCP. And just about the same amount of time has elapsed since the :emergency: summit. A summit of which you said we would have meeting minutes for.

2.5 months for some meeting minutes is awful long, especially considering that you said these minutes were of utmost importance and we would have them "soon". Get your act together, and cobble these minutes together already. Stop passing them back and forth to the CSM for "approval" and "sugar coating"...

Kharvor
Posted - 2011.08.29 20:18:00 - [2]
 

Much like the Vice President's Energy Commission meeting of 2001, the Emergency Summit of the CSM has been classified for reasons of irrational security.

Btw... SexxxSlave? BEST EVE NAME EVER. I'll give you 20 mil for your posting alt.

Lightnin
Posted - 2011.08.29 21:52:00 - [3]
 

Almost 3 months have passed since the infamous monoclegate, CCP. And just about the same amount of time has elapsed since the :emergency: summit. A summit of which you said we would have meeting minutes for.

yes i agree, where is this information at?
why would CCP hold out on such a important issue
many piolts have left for this very topic that was so important 3 months ago
seems like EVE has not been the same after that week of bitter discussion

myself i have been looking and waiting for some answers to what happen and how it will affect me in the future

time to tells us why, what, and where is the answer

Ranger 1
Amarr
Ranger Corp
Posted - 2011.08.29 21:58:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: Kharvor
Much like the Vice President's Energy Commission meeting of 2001, the Emergency Summit of the CSM has been classified for reasons of irrational security.

Btw... SexxxSlave? BEST EVE NAME EVER. I'll give you 20 mil for your posting alt.


Nice yes man alt. Laughing

The results of that meeting were already posted.

Actual minutes of the meeting would be covered under the NDA as already stated.

Perhaps you could quote the post that promised us full meeting minutes.

That Handsome Frog
Posted - 2011.08.29 22:04:00 - [5]
 

Oh no! You guys are googling your informationz. also why does the letter Q look weird after look it it for a couple mins? Also, the letter Q has a mustache when I type it into the message reply box. It has a freakin mustache... ftw

SexxxSlave
Posted - 2011.08.30 04:51:00 - [6]
 

Edited by: SexxxSlave on 30/08/2011 04:51:06
Originally by: Ranger 1

Actual minutes of the meeting would be covered under the NDA as already stated.


first of all, minutes arent NDA. The TRANSCRIPT is.


Originally by: Ranger 1
Perhaps you could quote the post that promised us full meeting minutes.


THIS THREAD would indicate to me (because Trebor isnt in the art of lying to people about stuff the CSM does) that there are meeting minutes being prepared to be released. Also, its common practice for CCP and CSM to release meeting minutes, as is evidenced HERE

Sullen Skoung
Posted - 2011.08.30 04:56:00 - [7]
 

Edited by: Sullen Skoung on 30/08/2011 04:59:44
Originally by: SexxxSlave
Almost 3 months have passed since the infamous monoclegate, CCP. And just about the same amount of time has elapsed since the :emergency: summit. A summit of which you said we would have meeting minutes for.

2.5 months for some meeting minutes is awful long, especially considering that you said these minutes were of utmost importance and we would have them "soon". Get your act together, and cobble these minutes together already. Stop passing them back and forth to the CSM for "approval" and "sugar coating"...


Honestly, I doubt the minutes exist. Theyre likely scripting them as we type, as they never thought people would actually WANT them. Likely they thought stringing the words "Emergency" and "CMS" together would pacify the masses, which it seems to have done. Funny thing given people actually think that is an accomplishment

I HAVE to laugh at the CSM... people seem to think these guys have some kind of power. CCP has in the past (and likely will in the future) ignored them to release things that **** off the players. Ifs fairly obvious CCP see them as nothing more than PR hounds like I do. Plus, how much power do they have when if CCP sees them getting too outraged at what they tell them CCP just slaps them with an NDA and tells them to deal with it lol

This group is just silly really

AnzacPaul
Perkone
Posted - 2011.08.30 06:55:00 - [8]
 

White tree posted a few days ago saying CCP and CSM couldn't agree on the tone of the minutes.

Frankly, it's pretty damn disgusting that three months later, with the instant sending of email, and skype contact, that these are not out. It says alot about CCP and their promise to improve communication.

But do any of us expect any less at this stage?

Ciar Meara
Amarr
Virtus Vindice
Posted - 2011.08.30 07:44:00 - [9]
 

Edited by: Ciar Meara on 30/08/2011 07:47:50

Hey ease up there!

Give CCP a break they have been on vacation!

And they have been iterating on the failed incarna launch to bring us all the CQ's.

And they have been posting on the ask a dev thread constantly to answer all those questions.

And they have been doing stuff talking about important stuff like 0.0 AGAIN.

And they have been talking about FW like they promised!

EDIT: Nevermind

SexxxSlave
Posted - 2011.08.30 09:06:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Ciar Meara

Give CCP a break they have been on vacation!




the sad part is, CCP will actually try and say the CSM meeting minutes were delayed because of vacation. Shame on them, really, because when you have something as pivotal as this going on with your game, you try and push something to the public to further the "we want to improve communication and transparency" impression.


Thornat
Posted - 2011.08.30 09:18:00 - [11]
 

I don't think they get what meeting minutes are about, so just for clarification. You write down what was said. Period. Its not something you fluff up that requires proper editing to capture some kind of "tone". Its just information. The meeting happened, people said stuff... you write the **** down. If you edit it, its not meeting minutes, its fluff and we already got more of that than I care to read. If I have to read another ******ed Devblog about 1000 jeans I'm going to shoot myself in the face.

CCP Xhagen

Posted - 2011.08.30 11:38:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Thornat
I don't think they get what meeting minutes are about, so just for clarification. You write down what was said. Period. Its not something you fluff up that requires proper editing to capture some kind of "tone". Its just information. The meeting happened, people said stuff... you write the **** down. If you edit it, its not meeting minutes, its fluff and we already got more of that than I care to read. If I have to read another ******ed Devblog about 1000 jeans I'm going to shoot myself in the face.

See here for another thread about the matter.

Originally by: Thornat
You write down what was said.
I think everyone can agree that direct transcription of text is as uncomfortable to read as things get. And since all expressions, tone of voice and handwaving is absent in the text a lot of information is lost by that method. Thus, we summarize the discussions when we write up the minutes, we mostly say 'CSM' and 'CCP' instead of saying specific names, a response follows a question or a comment, group the relevant discussion into one section in stead of having it going all over the place (like happens when talking to someone), etc. And that is where things start to get difficult, specially when the subject is of the nature like the June topic was.

We are getting pretty good at writing up minutes from CSM/CCP meetings, just some topics take more time than other. And this is one of those topics.

Harlot Hohannson
Eye on Wang Poo
Posted - 2011.08.30 11:54:00 - [13]
 

i watch what you do, not what you say. so far i see nothing.

CCP Xhagen

Posted - 2011.08.30 11:57:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Harlot Hohannson
i watch what you do, not what you say. so far i see nothing.
Fair enough.

Jen Serine
Posted - 2011.08.30 11:57:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Harlot Hohannson
i watch what you do, not what you say. so far i see nothing.

ghost st
Posted - 2011.08.30 11:59:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: CCP Xhagen
Originally by: Thornat
I don't think they get what meeting minutes are about, so just for clarification. You write down what was said. Period. Its not something you fluff up that requires proper editing to capture some kind of "tone". Its just information. The meeting happened, people said stuff... you write the **** down. If you edit it, its not meeting minutes, its fluff and we already got more of that than I care to read. If I have to read another ******ed Devblog about 1000 jeans I'm going to shoot myself in the face.

See here for another thread about the matter.

Originally by: Thornat
You write down what was said.
I think everyone can agree that direct transcription of text is as uncomfortable to read as things get. And since all expressions, tone of voice and handwaving is absent in the text a lot of information is lost by that method. Thus, we summarize the discussions when we write up the minutes, we mostly say 'CSM' and 'CCP' instead of saying specific names, a response follows a question or a comment, group the relevant discussion into one section in stead of having it going all over the place (like happens when talking to someone), etc. And that is where things start to get difficult, specially when the subject is of the nature like the June topic was.

We are getting pretty good at writing up minutes from CSM/CCP meetings, just some topics take more time than other. And this is one of those topics.


Just videotape the damn meeting and have some bored **** go over over it with a bleeper or something.Wink

Jack Paladin
StarFleet Enterprises
BricK sQuAD.
Posted - 2011.08.30 12:07:00 - [17]
 

Edited by: Jack Paladin on 30/08/2011 12:06:52
Originally by: Harlot Hohannson
i watch what you do, not what you say. so far i see nothing.


Best post yet.

Efraya
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.08.30 12:11:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Harlot Hohannson
i watch what you do, not what you say. so far i see nothing.

Jason1138
Posted - 2011.08.30 12:20:00 - [19]
 

"I think everyone can agree that direct transcription of text is as uncomfortable to read as things get."



i don't agree at all. i would enjoy reading a direct transcription that puts a name to every comment.

Stitcher
Caldari
Posted - 2011.08.30 12:20:00 - [20]
 

Edited by: Stitcher on 30/08/2011 12:20:01
Originally by: CCP Xhagen
Originally by: Harlot Hohannson
i watch what you do, not what you say. so far i see nothing.
Fair enough.


See, and right here is proof that the devs have way better PR skills than I ever would, beause my response to that would have been to call Harlot out on how incredibly b*tchy that statement was. Guess if I worked for CCP they'd have to forbid me from going anywhere near the forums.

Jason1138
Posted - 2011.08.30 12:26:00 - [21]
 

^ its not *****y at all, given that Hilmar said its CCP policy to ignore everything paying customers say, and only respond to what they do


Perramas
Caldari
Pan Caldarian Ventures
Posted - 2011.08.30 12:27:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Harlot Hohannson
i watch what you do, not what you say. so far i see nothing.

Harlot Hohannson
Eye on Wang Poo
Posted - 2011.08.30 12:31:00 - [23]
 

its not *****iness. ccp consistently fail to deliver on their promises and that more than sums up my feelings as to their reliability.

SupaKudoRio
Posted - 2011.08.30 12:46:00 - [24]
 

Edited by: SupaKudoRio on 30/08/2011 13:21:31
Originally by: CCP Xhagen
Originally by: Harlot Hohannson
i watch what you do, not what you say. so far i see nothing.
Fair enough.


Well said HH.

Xhagen, please do give your PR guys a memo saying they need to hurry up spinning those meeting minutes (besides, if it spins any faster the paper might burst into flames from the friction).

E: Actually. Just release the minutes as-is. That is, the whole unedited thing. People might be ****ed off about the "tone" (read: entire topics of the discussion) but CCP is very much hurting for customer faith. Being completely honest, consistently, from here on would go a long way to restore that.

Ciar Meara
Amarr
Virtus Vindice
Posted - 2011.08.30 12:46:00 - [25]
 

Edited by: Ciar Meara on 30/08/2011 12:49:48

Originally by: CCP Xhagen

See here for another thread about the matter.



Having visited that thread this is what you say there

-I transcribed the initial text and sent to the CSM for commenting
-Having gotten it back relatively quickly I sent it to the CCP people that need to read and comment
-Sent the re-reviewed back to the CSM
-The CSM objected to many of the reviews done
-Edits have been going back and forth for a while now


I have had the same job you do, having to change minutes for a boss who doesn't want anything but his own opinion/interpretation in the drafts. Just like you I had the misfortune to have a group of people disagree with his interpretation strongly. I was working between the EU Commission and a Governement Agency though.

If you where there and made the notes and if you wrote down what was said and if the CSM agreed to them quickly it is clear that the problem isn't with your interpretation. You need to tell the guys who want to change the text so badly that they can't change the facts. Tone is bull****. That just managerspeak for "damn this makes us look like idiots"

Get them of their high horse.
It is about communication, not ego.


Ravcharas
GREY COUNCIL
Nulli Secunda
Posted - 2011.08.30 13:08:00 - [26]
 

Are there any regulations concerning how long any one stakeholder involved in the minutes can keep it in a drawer?

Black Dranzer
Caldari
Posted - 2011.08.30 13:13:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: CCP Xhagen
I think everyone can agree that direct transcription of text is as uncomfortable to read as things get. And since all expressions, tone of voice and handwaving is absent in the text a lot of information is lost by that method.

The other day, a CSM member (I believe White Tree) mentioned that CCP and the CSM couldn't agree on the "tone" of the minutes.

Do you really expect us to believe that the disagreement is based on the vocal inflections that people made?

.. You know, on second thought, don't answer that.

Sullen Skoung
Posted - 2011.08.30 13:20:00 - [28]
 

Edited by: Sullen Skoung on 30/08/2011 13:24:59
Originally by: Jason1138
^ its not *****y at all, given that Hilmar said its CCP policy to ignore everything paying customers say, and only respond to what they do




Quote:

Having the perspective of having done this for a decade, I can tell you that this is one of the moments where we look at what our players do and less of what they say. We went out with a decisive strategy... and we will stay the course and not flip flop around or knee jerk react to the predictable.... Stay the course, we have done this many times before.


That part?

Its funny how much theyre screwing up now by pretending they think the CSM has power.
In the past theyve released things into the game that they never even showed to the CSM members (who squawked like offended chickens the whole time), and when the CSM says something about something theyre shpown that CCP doesnt like, CCP just slaps them with a NDA it just shows what CCP really thinks of them but NOW theyre soooooooo important, theyre holding up the minutes being released.
Something stinks about this situation here

CCP Xhagen

Posted - 2011.08.30 13:49:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: Black Dranzer
Originally by: CCP Xhagen
I think everyone can agree that direct transcription of text is as uncomfortable to read as things get. And since all expressions, tone of voice and handwaving is absent in the text a lot of information is lost by that method.

The other day, a CSM member (I believe White Tree) mentioned that CCP and the CSM couldn't agree on the "tone" of the minutes.

Do you really expect us to believe that the disagreement is based on the vocal inflections that people made?

.. You know, on second thought, don't answer that.
Your reverse psychology worked on me! When it comes to someone saying angrily "But I disagree!" do you reflect that in the minutes as 'CCP/CSM angrily disagreed!', 'CCP/CSM disagreed', 'CCP/CSM voiced objections to the statement', 'CCP/CSM noted their disapproval' or 'CCP/CSM wanted to point out another manner to address the issue'?

Sure, these things might look trivial (but they aren't) , but I want all parties to agree on the minutes - thus these things have to be discussed.

Ciar Meara
Amarr
Virtus Vindice
Posted - 2011.08.30 13:56:00 - [30]
 



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