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blankseplocked Tungsten Armor plates Vs. T2 Armor plates
 
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Loosey Goosey Kelthazaud
Posted - 2011.08.29 18:42:00 - [1]
 

I would like to purpose that the T2 armor plates have an actual benefit over the T1 tungsten version as it is the only difference is that the T2 version adds more mass to the ship and takes up more power grid every other defensive module adds at least a little more for the T2 version I purpose more armor amount for the trouble

Blacksquirrel
Posted - 2011.08.29 18:44:00 - [2]
 

I do too, but it will never happen... That or be the first t2 item that takes less PG. (I know I know faction), but how bout those take less mass instead.

Aamrr
Posted - 2011.08.29 18:51:00 - [3]
 

Originally by: Loosey Goosey Kelthazaud
every other defensive module adds at least a little more for the T2 version


On the contrary. T2 shield power relays are inferior to their meta-4 counterparts. If you look at defensive ewar, meta-4 tracking disruptors, sensor dampeners, and ECM are all better as well.

Different modules are different. Razz

NoNah
Posted - 2011.08.29 18:53:00 - [4]
 

I on the contrary suggest some time spent in reconsidering the entire loottables, especially for drone alloys and meta 1-4 gear and then make sure all meta 4 gear is better than T2 - possibly bar a certain niche(Like weapons where they get not only t2 ammo but the specialization skill(which frankly I have no idea why it doesn't apply to t1 guns).

Beef Hammer
Caldari
Suggs Enterprise
ITPL Coalition
Posted - 2011.08.29 18:54:00 - [5]
 

I have noticed this with several items, where the t2 doesn't seem to have an advantage over meta level just below it, i don't really understand it myself.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.08.29 18:55:00 - [6]
 

They do have an actual benefit: they can be trivially mass-produced and are cheap as chips.

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2011.08.29 21:26:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Beef Hammer
I have noticed this with several items, where the t2 doesn't seem to have an advantage over meta level just below it, i don't really understand it myself.


It's at least as common as not. Even T2 guns aren't as good as the meta 4s - the same stats for more fitting & cap use. Only their ability to use T2 ammo and the aplicability of the weapon spec skills makes them worth using over the meta 4.

Blacksquirrel
Posted - 2011.08.29 22:21:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Beef Hammer
I have noticed this with several items, where the t2 doesn't seem to have an advantage over meta level just below it, i don't really understand it myself.


It's at least as common as not. Even T2 guns aren't as good as the meta 4s - the same stats for more fitting & cap use. Only their ability to use T2 ammo and the aplicability of the weapon spec skills makes them worth using over the meta 4.


I'd say a 10% increase in damage is a pretty ****ing good reason to use them over meta 4...

Ineka
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies
Posted - 2011.08.29 22:35:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Blacksquirrel
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Beef Hammer
I have noticed this with several items, where the t2 doesn't seem to have an advantage over meta level just below it, i don't really understand it myself.


It's at least as common as not. Even T2 guns aren't as good as the meta 4s - the same stats for more fitting & cap use. Only their ability to use T2 ammo and the aplicability of the weapon spec skills makes them worth using over the meta 4.


I'd say a 10% increase in damage is a pretty ****ing good reason to use them over meta 4...



This.

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2011.08.29 22:58:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Blacksquirrel
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Beef Hammer
I have noticed this with several items, where the t2 doesn't seem to have an advantage over meta level just below it, i don't really understand it myself.


It's at least as common as not. Even T2 guns aren't as good as the meta 4s - the same stats for more fitting & cap use. Only their ability to use T2 ammo and the aplicability of the weapon spec skills makes them worth using over the meta 4.


I'd say a 10% increase in damage is a pretty ****ing good reason to use them over meta 4...


Ofc it does, no one is saying it doesn't. I was just pointing out that that 10% comes from the skill not the item.

Ineka
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies
Posted - 2011.08.29 23:05:00 - [11]
 

Edited by: Ineka on 29/08/2011 23:06:40
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Blacksquirrel
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Beef Hammer
I have noticed this with several items, where the t2 doesn't seem to have an advantage over meta level just below it, i don't really understand it myself.


It's at least as common as not. Even T2 guns aren't as good as the meta 4s - the same stats for more fitting & cap use. Only their ability to use T2 ammo and the aplicability of the weapon spec skills makes them worth using over the meta 4.


I'd say a 10% increase in damage is a pretty ****ing good reason to use them over meta 4...


Ofc it does, no one is saying it doesn't. I was just pointing out that that 10% comes from the skill not the item.


And people should stop comparing single item paper numbers without skills/ship/bonus factor, also and just for the form of it, my T2 hybrid ammo has heavy tracking penalty while my T2 projectile ammo???

So, witch one has the worst tracking, dps, cap consumption, fitting requirements?

EDIT: oops, about plates: rolled tungsten win every day and faction ones are awesome for hangar queens. Laughing

Dorian Wylde
Posted - 2011.08.29 23:20:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Beef Hammer
I have noticed this with several items, where the t2 doesn't seem to have an advantage over meta level just below it, i don't really understand it myself.


It's at least as common as not. Even T2 guns aren't as good as the meta 4s - the same stats for more fitting & cap use. Only their ability to use T2 ammo and the aplicability of the weapon spec skills makes them worth using over the meta 4.


When armor plates have a special skill to make them better, then you can make this comparison.

To OP, meta 4 remote rep modules are more or less the same. Same HP repaired, but at half a second faster cycle time, which most people agree is actually a bad thing. Make it the same cycle time, for more repaired and people will start using them.

Aamrr
Posted - 2011.08.30 00:37:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Dorian Wylde
Same HP repaired, but at half a second faster cycle time, which most people agree is actually a bad thing


Yes, because nobody ever trains rapid fire to reduce the cycle time on their turrets, or rapid launch for missiles, or repair systems for local armor repair, or...

You're not actually that dumb, are you? Hell, the overload bonus for remote reps is reduced cycle time. It's like having your modules 2/3 overloaded without generating heat. If you think this is a disadvantage, then I have serious concerns about your competency as a logistics pilot.

Now, if you want to argue that the powergrid or CPU savings are more compelling than the cycle time reduction, I'll absolutely hear you out. But calling 11% more outgoing reps a disadvantage is a pretty stunningly idiotic thing to say.

Mfume Apocal
Minmatar
Origin.
Black Legion.
Posted - 2011.08.30 01:57:00 - [14]
 

Edited by: Mfume Apocal on 30/08/2011 01:58:00
There are precious few reasons to use a T2 MWD. A cap-hungry active tank is the main one I've run into. Generally named MWD is superior.

Sluzzytimes
Posted - 2011.08.30 02:21:00 - [15]
 

CCP has low IQ, they divised the META system to inform players which item is better when comparing them.

However, ccp doesn't follow that system, often times lower meta items are better than compared to higher meta ones.

Therefore, either remove the META information from all modules or correctly modify all modules so that the higher meta ones are always better than the lower meta counter parts.

Derp DERP DERP, CCP king of video game derp logic.

Noob Ganker
Posted - 2011.08.30 04:05:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Aamrr
Originally by: Dorian Wylde
Same HP repaired, but at half a second faster cycle time, which most people agree is actually a bad thing


Yes, because nobody ever trains rapid fire to reduce the cycle time on their turrets, or rapid launch for missiles, or repair systems for local armor repair, or...

You're not actually that dumb, are you? Hell, the overload bonus for remote reps is reduced cycle time. It's like having your modules 2/3 overloaded without generating heat. If you think this is a disadvantage, then I have serious concerns about your competency as a logistics pilot.

Now, if you want to argue that the powergrid or CPU savings are more compelling than the cycle time reduction, I'll absolutely hear you out. But calling 11% more outgoing reps a disadvantage is a pretty stunningly idiotic thing to say.


You're not really that stupid are you?

The decreased cycle time on t2 reppers gives minimally more reps at the cost of increased cap usage.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.08.30 04:47:00 - [17]
 

Edited by: Tippia on 30/08/2011 04:49:12
Originally by: Noob Ganker
The decreased cycle time on t2 reppers gives minimally more reps at the cost of increased cap usage.
Eh. A straight up decrease in cycle time means your cap/hp exchange rate remains exactly the same, only now you rep faster.

Repping faster is good.
If you start to run out of cap, there is a solution to that: turn the repper off.

And the only ones who agree that repping faster is bad are people who haven't quite finished thinking about it… if this means “most people” think it's bad, then EVEkind in a sorry state. Crying or Very sad

Mfume Apocal
Minmatar
Origin.
Black Legion.
Posted - 2011.08.30 06:29:00 - [18]
 

Edited by: Mfume Apocal on 30/08/2011 06:30:19
Originally by: Noob Ganker
You're not really that stupid are you?

The decreased cycle time on t2 reppers gives minimally more reps at the cost of increased cap usage.


...which is rendered moot by either a cap-chain or utterly insane cap recharge of the common solo logi fits. The only reason T2 large reps are (mostly) restricted to BSes is the fitting requirements.

DeBingJos
Minmatar
Goat Holdings
Posted - 2011.08.30 06:29:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Tippia
Edited by: Tippia on 30/08/2011 04:49:12
Originally by: Noob Ganker
The decreased cycle time on t2 reppers gives minimally more reps at the cost of increased cap usage.
Eh. A straight up decrease in cycle time means your cap/hp exchange rate remains exactly the same, only now you rep faster.

Repping faster is good.
If you start to run out of cap, there is a solution to that: turn the repper off.

And the only ones who agree that repping faster is bad are people who haven't quite finished thinking about it… if this means “most people” think it's bad, then EVEkind in a sorry state. Crying or Very sad


^^^ this


Aamrr
Posted - 2011.08.30 08:33:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Noob Ganker

You're not really that stupid are you?

The decreased cycle time on t2 reppers gives minimally more reps at the cost of increased cap usage.


I'm smarter than someone who calls a 10% cycle reduction "minimal".

Nezumiiro Noneko
Posted - 2011.08.30 23:00:00 - [21]
 

I think stuff like this exists as easter eggs for players to discover personally. the devs from the early days put this in to divert from the usual mmo setup of what's best gear...the gear that needs you to grind levels to get.

feature I like actually....those that take the time to actually read item stats get rewarded with interesting fits that aqueeze in more with the better grid requirements named has. Some of the best fits I have seen have been t2 guns, damage mods like gyro. Beyond that, best named to shoe horn in stuff even max fitting skills is telling to diaf with any attempt to full t2 fit. Lose t2 or death mindset and you have soooo many possibilities.


Some could say well training needed for t2 blah blah....my stance with named gear has always been have those t2 skills in place anyway for best use for most items (weapons the big exception ofc). Cool thing about named gear like plates....that 200mm rolled tungsten you buy day 2 assuming no blow ups can be used on that frigate till the day it dies. gets you a decent armor fit day 2...that gets better the day you get hull upgrade needed for t2 plates.

Breaks the cycle of buying named gear while training....then selling it to buy the t2 stuff. Play eve long enough, you'll get more than enough chances to upgrade gear, enjoy these few gimme's ccp gave I say.


 

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