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Jago Kain
Amarr
Ramm's RDI
Tactical Narcotics Team
Posted - 2011.08.28 03:01:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Jago Kain on 28/08/2011 03:05:46
Bear with me, this is a bit of a long one.

Was watching a film earlier when I heard a bit of hubbub outside and looked out the window to see what was going on. Some guy is crashed out in the middle of the street with two lads trying to rouse him. I went down to see if he was OK and if there was anything I could do to help.

He was ****ed as ********s, but looked uninjured, so we decided to forgo the ambulance and tried to get him back on his feet and give him a hand home. Bad move. He wasn't making much sense, but gave us his address so we helped him up the road to where he said he lived.

He then decides he wants to pick a fight with me and steps up into my face. I did my best to placate him and calm the situation down, but he got very aggressive and after blocking a couple of drunken shots from him I regretfully informed the lads, who said they knew him, I was going to leave them to it.

**** decided this wasn't good enough and staggered after me as a walked down the road. Couldn't go into the house (didn't want him to know where I lived) so we played kiss chase around some parked cars for a bit. **** funny. Well; it was either that or give him a proper dig. The two lads tried to calm him down and he turned nasty on them. Whilst he had one of them backed up against a wall the other phoned the rozzers.

Took the busys about 10 mins to get here, despite the fact they could clearly hear the rumpus in the background as Donal (he'd actually been polite enough to introduce himself after he'd started swinging) grappled with one of the lads screaming insults at high volume. By now half the street is peering from behind the nets to watch the cabaret.

By the time the bill had got here, the lads had decided enough was enough and had left with Shaolin Drunken ****witt following. Needless to say they had little trouble making their escape good. I think he'd forgotten about me and I waited a bit further up the road while he propped up someone's car a bit further down.

The local constabulary roll up and try to talk to him and I approach to try and explain to them what's been going on. At this point young Donal decides he really doesn't like policemen and squares up to one of them... oh dear. We then have another 10 minutes of him screaming as the police cuff him and wait for a van. I told the rozzers what had gone on, but stressed that if all they wanted to do was lock him up for the night and kick him loose once he regained the power of rational thought that was good enough for me. No worries I thought... after all, couldn't have left him wombling about in that state he was a menace to himself and everyone else.

Whilst they wait with shouty ****ed bloke I'm talking to one of my neighbours who's been woken up by the noise when another neighbour comes out and asks whats going on. I give her a preci version of events and tell her he was crashed out outside her house. "His name's Donal apparently ", I say... "You wouldn't happen to know where he lives?". "He's my ****ing husband!", she replies legging it down the road to where the cops are now stuffing him into the back of a van. Turns out he actually made it home after all (well nearly) and was so ****ed he couldn't tell the difference between 35 and 65.

I go back to chatting with some of my neighbours who are now milling about in dressing gowns and boxer shorts. Donal's missus then decides she's going to have a go at me and comes over to ask me what I was doing phoning the rozzers.

I explain to her that it wasn't me that phoned the rozzers, but that really, he hadn't left the lads any choice and that he was lucky he was on his way to the local nick for bed and breakfast rather than hospital to have his jaw wired up... one of the lads had got really het up when he was swinging at them and I had to step in to stop him lamping Donal properly and remind him that he was so ****ed he didn't actually know what he was doing.



Jago Kain
Amarr
Ramm's RDI
Tactical Narcotics Team
Posted - 2011.08.28 03:03:00 - [2]
 

Edited by: Jago Kain on 28/08/2011 03:04:30
(cont from prev post)

It then dawns on me. This woman is the same one who a while back took exception to me using my bike during the hours of darkness because she's got two kids which means that a) her ovaries work and b) as a result I have to be quiet. Oddly enough the same woman (and Donal I presume if he was conscious) had a BBQ until 5 in the ****ing morning the week after she had a go at me over the bike. Not that I was overly bothered, but it just struck me as slightly hypocritical is all.

I tried to explain to her what had occured, but she just said "what the ****'s it got to do with you" and stalked off.

So; I try to help a drunk and incapable chap avoid being run over and get home and I get attacked for it. I do all the morally right things (I feel) and it still isn't good enough.

Still, on the plus side, I got to have a bit of a chat with some of my neighbours that I hadn't actually spoken much to before and they got a little bit of entertainment into the bargain.

It won't stop me "interfering" next time someone may be in need of help, but if it's Donal again, I think I'll be inclined to watch, giggling, from the window as he bounces off cars and gets himself run over.

And his missus can go **** herself with a live, wet, telegraph pole. I tried me best to be neighbourly and if it's not good enough so be it. I can live with that and she will just have to too.

/rant off :)



Dorian Tormak
M0N0LITH
Posted - 2011.08.28 03:31:00 - [3]
 

I bet his girlfriend would be real easy to get with.

Cool story (:

Jhagiti Tyran
Muppet Ninja's
Ninja Unicorns with Huge Horns
Posted - 2011.08.28 05:12:00 - [4]
 

INB4 The Americans who will post that this why you need to have guns so you could machine gun him to death.

In all seriousness you should have just left him to it when you realised he was plastered, most of the time there's no helping people that drunk, I don't know how you kept your temper to be honest. It says a lot about you that you initially went out to help someone in trouble though.

VKhaun Vex
Posted - 2011.08.28 05:36:00 - [5]
 

This is why you need a gu-...

Nevermind.

baltec1
Posted - 2011.08.28 06:33:00 - [6]
 

I had this happen to me a few months back. Going to work at 1am and find a body at the side of the road outside a pub. I stop, ambulance gets called and because I keep on finding these people the police get called too.

Sure enough he gets agressive towards the paramedics and rather than going to hospital for a stomach pump he gets tossed into the back of a van to spend the night in the nick. He made me late for work and wasted the paramedics time but at the same time, I couldnt just leave him thereNeutral

At least he got an 80 fineTwisted Evil

Scorpionidae
Posted - 2011.08.28 19:45:00 - [7]
 

But wait what was the name of the film!!!

Scorpionidae Very Happy


Headerman
Minmatar
Quovis
Shadow of xXDEATHXx
Posted - 2011.08.29 00:58:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Jago Kain
Shaolin Drunken ****witt


That's ****ing gold.

Gonna be giggling all day at work now!

Seriously though, there are normal people, and then there are no hopers.

Culmen
Caldari
Culmenation
Posted - 2011.08.29 03:06:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Jhagiti Tyran
INB4 The Americans who will post that this why you need to have guns so you could machine gun him to death.

In all seriousness you should have just left him to it when you realised he was plastered, most of the time there's no helping people that drunk, I don't know how you kept your temper to be honest. It says a lot about you that you initially went out to help someone in trouble though.


Americans know this is very much the case for a Taser.
Threatening gets shot, annoying gets Tased.

Don't you really wish you could pump 50,000 volts into him though?

Dorian Tormak
M0N0LITH
Posted - 2011.08.29 03:25:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Culmen
Originally by: Jhagiti Tyran
INB4 The Americans who will post that this why you need to have guns so you could machine gun him to death.

In all seriousness you should have just left him to it when you realised he was plastered, most of the time there's no helping people that drunk, I don't know how you kept your temper to be honest. It says a lot about you that you initially went out to help someone in trouble though.


Americans know this is very much the case for a Taser.
Threatening gets shot, annoying gets Tased.

Don't you really wish you could pump 50,000 volts into him though?


I would think like this...

... if I was a total smeghead... and if my **** was too small.

Herzog Wolfhammer
Gallente
Sigma Special Tactics Group
Posted - 2011.08.29 03:58:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Jhagiti Tyran
INB4 The Americans who will post that this why you need to have guns so you could machine gun him to death.

In all seriousness you should have just left him to it when you realised he was plastered, most of the time there's no helping people that drunk, I don't know how you kept your temper to be honest. It says a lot about you that you initially went out to help someone in trouble though.



I carry a gun, everybody I know carries guns. Before I roll out of bed in the morning I have to kick the guns out of the way. If you are not careful in my house, you will trip over a gun. Most living rooms have a bowl of candy on the central table, I got ammo...

- you know the drill.


Yet, I, and nobody I know would:

1. Ever be in a place with power-drinkers like that hanging around.
2. Try to help someone who would appear to be an adult and therefore is responsible for himself. You see, the "gun crowd" is a mostly libertarian crowd that believes in personal responsibility so if someone is going to be a drunk wandering in the street, it's his problem.
3. Bother with the kind of neighbors described by the OP. In fact, most of us go through all kinds of decisions NOT to end up living around adult-sized children like that (because we WOULD end up having to shoot them eventually and it's too much paperwork - or digging). My neighbors are more armed than I am.
4. Machine guns have not been widely available to the public since 1934 and those that are still transferable are so expensive your typical drunk idiot in the street is not worth getting your Uzi or Sten gun stuck in a police evidence locker.
5. Only people who resort to violence think on terms of whether or not someone has a gun to determine how they treat people. Yet this seldom becomes an issue when you don't deal with such people - the sort of people called "criminals". There are no criminals in my (and our) lives - just good people and targets.

I like to play Eve because it's the only safe place to be NICE to people without getting screwed over.


Jhagiti Tyran
Muppet Ninja's
Ninja Unicorns with Huge Horns
Posted - 2011.08.29 08:29:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Culmen
Originally by: Jhagiti Tyran
INB4 The Americans who will post that this why you need to have guns so you could machine gun him to death.

In all seriousness you should have just left him to it when you realised he was plastered, most of the time there's no helping people that drunk, I don't know how you kept your temper to be honest. It says a lot about you that you initially went out to help someone in trouble though.


Americans know this is very much the case for a Taser.
Threatening gets shot, annoying gets Tased.

Don't you really wish you could pump 50,000 volts into him though?


In all honesty I would have left and leave the lads he annoyed to give him a pasting, again I think it says a lot about the OP that he intervened and stopped them from giving him a beating.

Originally by: Herzog Wolfhammer
Originally by: Jhagiti Tyran
post



I carry a gun, everybody I know carries guns. Before I roll out of bed in the morning I have to kick the guns out of the way. If you are not careful in my house, you will trip over a gun. Most living rooms have a bowl of candy on the central table, I got ammo...

- you know the drill.


Yet, I, and nobody I know would:

1. Ever be in a place with power-drinkers like that hanging around.
2. Try to help someone who would appear to be an adult and therefore is responsible for himself. You see, the "gun crowd" is a mostly libertarian crowd that believes in personal responsibility so if someone is going to be a drunk wandering in the street, it's his problem.
3. Bother with the kind of neighbors described by the OP. In fact, most of us go through all kinds of decisions NOT to end up living around adult-sized children like that (because we WOULD end up having to shoot them eventually and it's too much paperwork - or digging). My neighbors are more armed than I am.
4. Machine guns have not been widely available to the public since 1934 and those that are still transferable are so expensive your typical drunk idiot in the street is not worth getting your Uzi or Sten gun stuck in a police evidence locker.
5. Only people who resort to violence think on terms of whether or not someone has a gun to determine how they treat people. Yet this seldom becomes an issue when you don't deal with such people - the sort of people called "criminals". There are no criminals in my (and our) lives - just good people and targets.

I like to play Eve because it's the only safe place to be NICE to people without getting screwed over.




I'm just being sarcastic, I can understand why people like having guns but unless the Utopian era of complete social responsibility appears in the UK I believe we are far better off without them. I don't want to see the UK degenerate as much as the US because things are bad enough as it is.

Astenion
Gallente
Spiritus Draconis
Posted - 2011.08.29 10:12:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Jhagiti Tyran
I'm just being sarcastic, I can understand why people like having guns but unless the Utopian era of complete social responsibility appears in the UK I believe we are far better off without them. I don't want to see the UK degenerate as much as the US because things are bad enough as it is.


Yes, because it's not like people are burning down buildings and rioting in the UK while you gently ask them to stop and then offer them tea.

JordanParey
Suddenly Ninjas
Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
Posted - 2011.08.29 10:28:00 - [14]
 

Edited by: JordanParey on 29/08/2011 10:29:44
Originally by: Jhagiti Tyran
Originally by: Culmen
Originally by: Jhagiti Tyran
INB4 The Americans who will post that this why you need to have guns so you could machine gun him to death.

In all seriousness you should have just left him to it when you realised he was plastered, most of the time there's no helping people that drunk, I don't know how you kept your temper to be honest. It says a lot about you that you initially went out to help someone in trouble though.


Americans know this is very much the case for a Taser.
Threatening gets shot, annoying gets Tased.

Don't you really wish you could pump 50,000 volts into him though?


In all honesty I would have left and leave the lads he annoyed to give him a pasting, again I think it says a lot about the OP that he intervened and stopped them from giving him a beating.

Originally by: Herzog Wolfhammer
Originally by: Jhagiti Tyran
post



I carry a gun, everybody I know carries guns. Before I roll out of bed in the morning I have to kick the guns out of the way. If you are not careful in my house, you will trip over a gun. Most living rooms have a bowl of candy on the central table, I got ammo...

- you know the drill.


Yet, I, and nobody I know would:

1. Ever be in a place with power-drinkers like that hanging around.
2. Try to help someone who would appear to be an adult and therefore is responsible for himself. You see, the "gun crowd" is a mostly libertarian crowd that believes in personal responsibility so if someone is going to be a drunk wandering in the street, it's his problem.
3. Bother with the kind of neighbors described by the OP. In fact, most of us go through all kinds of decisions NOT to end up living around adult-sized children like that (because we WOULD end up having to shoot them eventually and it's too much paperwork - or digging). My neighbors are more armed than I am.
4. Machine guns have not been widely available to the public since 1934 and those that are still transferable are so expensive your typical drunk idiot in the street is not worth getting your Uzi or Sten gun stuck in a police evidence locker.
5. Only people who resort to violence think on terms of whether or not someone has a gun to determine how they treat people. Yet this seldom becomes an issue when you don't deal with such people - the sort of people called "criminals". There are no criminals in my (and our) lives - just good people and targets.

I like to play Eve because it's the only safe place to be NICE to people without getting screwed over.




I'm just being sarcastic, I can understand why people like having guns but unless the Utopian era of complete social responsibility appears in the UK I believe we are far better off without them. I don't want to see the UK degenerate as much as the US because things are bad enough as it is.


The US isn't degenerating because people own firearms here. It's degenerating because even though it is noble, the idea of helping those who need help isn't working because they often don't WANT to help themselves. Anyways, that's off-topic. Everyone knows that you don't shoot belligerent drunks, you taze the **** out of them till they **** themselves :D

It was kind of you to attempt to escort the inebriated gentleman to his residence, though. I would have just left after he got confrontational.

Something Random
Gallente
The Barrow Boys
Posted - 2011.08.29 15:29:00 - [15]
 

I learned many years ago the way to deal with someone that drunk that starts on you as you help them...... take everything thats ever gone wrong for you out on them.

Because you aint gonna get a medal.

Oh and check there pockets while they are unconscious.... can be highly profitable.

Dorian Tormak
M0N0LITH
Posted - 2011.08.29 15:55:00 - [16]
 

It's just common ****ing sense to help out a waste neighbor man.

US sucks to be honest.

Jago Kain
Amarr
Ramm's RDI
Tactical Narcotics Team
Posted - 2011.08.29 16:11:00 - [17]
 

Some interesting responses to my tale that I feel I need to comment on.

Yup, Declan is an adult. However, he was in some serious danger. To clarify, the main bulk of his body was partically concealed by parked cars, but his legs and feet were right out where they would hvae been run over if a passing driver hadn't spotted him. It wasn't safe to leave him there, end of.

I don't own a handgun or a taser as the law in the UK ensures that only criminals have access to these. Regardless, despite his agression, at no time did I feel in significant danger from his pathetic attempts at fisticuffs. He was so drunk that he could barely stand, the two digs he had at me before I tried (unsuccesfully) to walk were totally ineffective and it would have been nothing short of bullying if I'd wound up and put him on his arse.

I am well aware of self-defense law in the UK and I will admit I did feel tempted to smack him in the teeth, but I knew that this goes well beyoned self-defense and had to remind myself that he wasn't in control and not to take it personally.

The lads who tried to help him had been drinking too, and I stepped in to stop one of them pasting him as I appeared to be the only one there actually sober and thinking straight. My main concern there was that if the police arrived and found one of them beating him, they'd end up in for assault as a result of initially trying to help the guy. This seemed wrong to me so I moved to prevent it.

Don't really have much choice in avoiding "power drinkers" when they crash out outside your place of residence, and I wasn't even aware he was a neighbour until his wife came out after the busys had arrived. Obviously if I'd known he was crashed out near his own house it would have been a simple matter of knocking on the door and leaving her to deal with him... maybe giving her a hand to get him inside.

Yes, the easiest solution would have been to leave him where he was. Sorry; that's not the way I'm wired. All I saw was someone clearly unable to look after himself and in potential danger so I did what I could to minimise the risk, both for his sake and for others. After he became ambulatory my main concern was the potential danger to anyone else unlucky enough to cross his path while he was in such a belligerent mood.

I'm not after a medal, and I'm not claiming I'm some sort of saint. I did no more than any other reasonable person might have done in the same circumstances. There were two other lads there also concerned abot his safety if you remember, so I'm also pretty sure we're not alone in this.

I knew a guy years ago with a serious alcohol problem who drank himself into a stupor and crashed out in the street. Nobody helped him, for whatever reasons, and he died, alone, of hypothermia in a very public place. No pun intended, that's cold man. I don't think that Declan was in any danger of freezing to death out there, but that wasn't the point.

I've yet to run into young Declan after the incident, but I'm sure our paths will cross sometime soon. I'll settle for just being left alone, but if he wants to discuss the matter I'll talk to him about it. I haven't taken it personally; he had no idea of who he was (let alone the rest of us), or even where he lived at the time and it's just one of those things. If he gets arsey, loosening his teeth is still an option; I'm a pacifist, not Ghandi, and I have used violence in the past when no other option is available. It's just not my first resort is all.

I'm pretty sure his missus won't see it this way (only spoken to her three time and she's been ****ing unreasonable on all occassions) but like I said, **** her; I did what I thought was right and for the best of reasons and I'd do the same again tomorrow with no hesitation.

My compassion for someone is not limited to those who lead perfect lives and never make mistakes. Can't just be me can it?



Karl Planck
Labyrinth Obtaining Chaotic Kangaroos
Posted - 2011.08.29 17:29:00 - [18]
 

Jago, in regard to your last post.

In all honesty there is not much anyone is going to say to make you less heated about this. I am not quite sure WHY you made a post about this, other than to let some steam out.

People will have different views on what they would or would not have done. All in all, the whole experience is just a show of your character (as well as others). Unfortunately, even something that borders on the line of common sense, your actions were, righteous, even if you didn't mean them to be. I use a religious term on purpose simply because when you interfere in this way, some sh*t always rolls downhill.

Its an act of good will, it will not always be reciprocated. In those kind of situations, you can only do what you think is right. Sounds to me like you are questioning that a little bit b/c the wife was a ****. But thats a different event all together. You saw someone in need, you could help, you felt compelled to and followed through, You get a headache from it and hopefully, a feeling of self worth. Thats about it.

Nerath Naaris
Pink Winged Unicorns for Peace Love and Anarchy
Posted - 2011.08.29 21:17:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Jago Kain

So; I try to help a drunk and incapable chap avoid being run over and get home and I get attacked for it. I do all the morally right things (I feel) and it still isn't good enough.


No good deed goes unpunished.

Accept it brother.

Blacksquirrel
Posted - 2011.08.29 22:41:00 - [20]
 

Why do people seem to think we go around shooting drunks stumbling home in the US? There would literally be thousands of people dead every night if this were true. You'd swear all the euros on this forum believe that were all strapped 24/7 shooting guns into the air outside dive bars or dueling at "High Noon."

Also whens someone is that ****ing drunk (Blackout) cut em slack... Or punch em so they do pass out and leave em on a bench or something... People who get violent drunk instead of happy drunk need to stop drinking however...ruining it for the rest of us.

Herzog Wolfhammer
Gallente
Sigma Special Tactics Group
Posted - 2011.08.30 00:41:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Jago Kain
Yes, the easiest solution would have been to leave him where he was. Sorry; that's not the way I'm wired. All I saw was someone clearly unable to look after himself and in potential danger so I did what I could to minimise the risk, both for his sake and for others. After he became ambulatory my main concern was the potential danger to anyone else unlucky enough to cross his path while he was in such a belligerent mood.




That was once a safe attitude to have.

But now we are at critical mass of stupid people in a world of weaponized democracy - the most deceptive cloak of tyranny.

When you save stupid people from themselves, they only live longer to vote more of your rights away, give cause for more state intervention to protect you from them, and put more of your money in their pockets.

Even worse: they make more stupid people.

Long time ago, dumb decisions and irresponsibility got people killed. Now the world is idiot-proofed and for good reason: idiots play right into the hands of the people who see us all as cash cows and cannon fodder.

I would only support your saintly endeavors if some arrangement could be made that only you should have to bear the brunt if what their existence brings, pay the taxes for the consequences, and only you should have to babysit them.


Jago Kain
Amarr
Ramm's RDI
Tactical Narcotics Team
Posted - 2011.08.30 01:26:00 - [22]
 

Wow Herzog. I bet you're great fun at parties.

You trolling or do you really believe that?

I think some of you guys may be getting the wrong end of the stick here.

This wasn't some life and death struggle with knife wielding feral youths bent on sodomozing my kitten and posting the vid on me!me!me!me!me!tube. It was a drunk lying in the road who got a bit angsty and ended up in the cells for the night. Nobody died here; I wouldn't have thought it was that big a deal.

I only made the OP 'cos I was bored and it was stupid o'clock in the morning, I was still "up" a bit from the aggro and I thought I'd share the amusing-in-places tale with the EVE forum *****s. Just that really. Honestly.

I wasn't looking for a big debate on idiocracy and the pros and cons of leaving folk to be run over to purge the gene pool of less than perfect members of our master race.

Perhaps I should be camping on Donal's doorstep first thing in the morning so I can murder him and his missus and kids to remove the faulty bloodline from the stock register?

Chemical chance forbid you should ever do something that might be a bit daft Herzog; you'd obviously feel morally bound to slit your own throat and bleed out on the floor for the greater good.

Get well soon.



Dorian Tormak
M0N0LITH
Posted - 2011.08.30 01:42:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Herzog Wolfhammer
When you save stupid people from themselves, they only live longer to vote more of your rights away, give cause for more state intervention to protect you from them, and put more of your money in their pockets.

Even worse: they make more stupid people.

Long time ago, dumb decisions and irresponsibility got people killed. Now the world is idiot-proofed and for good reason: idiots play right into the hands of the people who see us all as cash cows and cannon fodder.

I would only support your saintly endeavors if some arrangement could be made that only you should have to bear the brunt if what their existence brings, pay the taxes for the consequences, and only you should have to babysit them.


Idunno if I wanna beat the crap out of you or make love to you. (in game)

Herzog Wolfhammer
Gallente
Sigma Special Tactics Group
Posted - 2011.08.30 04:27:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Dorian Tormak
Originally by: Herzog Wolfhammer
When you save stupid people from themselves, they only live longer to vote more of your rights away, give cause for more state intervention to protect you from them, and put more of your money in their pockets.

Even worse: they make more stupid people.

Long time ago, dumb decisions and irresponsibility got people killed. Now the world is idiot-proofed and for good reason: idiots play right into the hands of the people who see us all as cash cows and cannon fodder.

I would only support your saintly endeavors if some arrangement could be made that only you should have to bear the brunt if what their existence brings, pay the taxes for the consequences, and only you should have to babysit them.


Idunno if I wanna beat the crap out of you or make love to you. (in game)


Whatever you choose, you are still going to have to do it twice in case I enjoy it the first time.




 

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