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Demon Azrakel
Gallente
Defiant..
Narwhals Ate My Duck
Posted - 2011.08.28 02:26:00 - [31]
 

Sounds like an awesome idea, just as soon as NPC corps are able to be wardeced...

Tuggboat
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.08.28 05:27:00 - [32]
 

Edited by: Tuggboat on 28/08/2011 05:30:31


Quote:
This is what I was told by an E-Uni manager. And it is what Kelduum told his directors and managers. It is supposed to be hush-hush. The E-Uni manager could have been bull****ting the few of us in channel, but I doubt it. That would have been out of character for her/him. As for the 11% tax (versus the Uni's usual 7.5% tax) ... I doubt such details have been discussed.



I take it your not liable or in charge of secrets :)

Wouldn't it be better if CCP just invented a wardec invulnerability switch you could buy for something like 10000 Aurum a month? You know something only large corps could afford so the little new guys can continue being harrassed while the rich live in relative safety. So much more justice ya know? Maybe even put nullsec planets in their constellations kinda like a high sec sov for the rich so the new dudes can PI like crazy and perma incursions and wormholes? How about bonus asteroids for budding miners and sytem wide scrambler jammers so ninjas can't hold down the noobs. Strictly for training of course.

Something needs done to hold these noobs, free dresses maybe?

Jacob Stiller
Posted - 2011.08.28 06:03:00 - [33]
 

Edited by: Jacob Stiller on 28/08/2011 06:06:31
Originally by: AnzacPaul
Originally by: Jacob Stiller
Originally by: AkJon Ferguson

If other people want immunity from wardecs they must pay an 11% ISK sink tax for that benefit.


And your average player run corp has 0% tax? Really?


Your average player run corp isn't immune to war declarations.


The point is that the price of war dec immunity isn't the full 11% NPC corp tax rate but rather the difference between 11% and the "typical" tax rate of a player corporation.

Edit: I can't believe I actually had to explicitly explain this point, btw.

Poetic Stanziel
Gallente
Macbeth Transport and Freight LLC
Posted - 2011.08.28 06:24:00 - [34]
 

Edited by: Poetic Stanziel on 28/08/2011 07:39:25
Originally by: AnzacPaul
Originally by: Asuri Kinnes
E-U does *not* teach people to be blobs... Try harder, that was pretty dam lame, tbqh...


No, just the tactics they use teach people if you've got enough ships no matter how cheap and ****ty they are, you can win.

One skilled pilot against a blob of newbies in crappy ships and you can pick it apart.

http://poeticstanziel.blogspot.com/2011/08/medal-for-badassery-goes-to.html

Uni doesn't teach blob tactics. Nullsec does that much better. The Uni simply has a lot of members that want to go on PvP roams. And lately, the so-called blobs haven't been much more than 15-20 ships. Hardly a blob and rarely competitive in regions like Curse.

Poetic Stanziel
Gallente
Macbeth Transport and Freight LLC
Posted - 2011.08.28 06:31:00 - [35]
 

Edited by: Poetic Stanziel on 28/08/2011 06:35:19

Originally by: Magnus Orin
Probably a troll (not the OP, it was the OP who was trolled), but this would set an incredibly bad precedent if it were true.

No. I've known of this info for over three weeks. I'm not entirely sure where I stand on it though. I can see the benefits to CCP (increased player retention), and the negatives (avoidance of normal PvP game mechanics.)

But since I've been asked to leave for questioning some of the more contradictory Uni rules, I see no reason to keep it a secret. It's not like I can be kicked out over it now. Which is why I didn't bring it up before :) It starts a good, interesting dialogue.

I'm not bitter towards EVE University. For all their pimples and warts, they are still a good organization, and Kelduum is still a quality guy. I still think he should run and be elected to the next CSM. But possible special considerations like this, aimed towards a single player-run corporation, they should be discussed openly with the playerbase. It affects an area of the game for good and bad.

You'll notice I'm not arguing any one point of view. I'm not arguing that's it's a terrible idea. Nor am I arguing that it's a great idea. I'm just reading all the different valid points of view.

AkJon Ferguson
JC Ferguson and Son Ltd
Ferguson Alliance
Posted - 2011.08.28 06:57:00 - [36]
 

Well, it's a terrible idea, and not particularly interesting. Nor are there any valid opposing viewpoints (player retention is not one, as people would be up in arms if CCP played favorites like this and would quit in droves if they stuck to their guns.)

So what are these 'contradictory' rules you got booted for arguing against?

Theodoric Darkwind
Gallente
PonyWaffe
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2011.08.28 07:32:00 - [37]
 

As a former unista all I can say is this is a terrible idea.

The uni does not need any special protection, the uni is there to help new players learn the ropes of EVE. Giving the uni special protection or NPC status would diminish the learning experience for the students.

I do still agree that some change to wardec mechanics to discourage 1 man "faildecs" should happen

Poetic Stanziel
Gallente
Macbeth Transport and Freight LLC
Posted - 2011.08.28 07:34:00 - [38]
 

Edited by: Poetic Stanziel on 28/08/2011 07:58:13

Originally by: AkJon Ferguson
So what are these 'contradictory' rules you got booted for arguing against?

The fact that anyone, during war, can scout for a fleet in a T1 Frigate or an Interceptor, and not prove that they have any skills in actual scouting, but as soon as they would like to do it in a cov ops ship, they suddenly have to prove proficiency at scouting. The Uni seems to feel that losing cov ops ships entices people to war dec them. Cov ops pilots need to be certified by people who aren't certified under the program themselves. (Whereas, one can freely fly Heavy Interdictors around without knowing what they're doing at all.) Some of the contradictions in their rules annoyed me.

And while I mostly agree with their wartime operating procedures (WSOP), I also feel they are counter-productive at times and should allow for more flexibility depending on the type of wardec the Uni receives. (Also, the Uni does not prepare its students at all for operating under a wardec, it's simply a case of dock up and do nothing, so folks leaving the Uni afterwards for corps with more relaxed wardec procedures likely end up killed a lot because they don't know how to make effective use of d-scan, local, etc. to watch and prepare for war targets.) To some extent the Uni really only prepares you to be a carebear, they hide and shelter themselves from some of the harsher realities of the game. I think the Uni could do more in that area to train and prepare players.

I also complained about inactivity at the management and director levels within the Uni. Most of those people rarely log on or interact with the Uni in any way whatsoever, yet they retain their positions. Folks that are much lower rank work their asses off to propose good and interesting changes. Then weeks later some director logs on, looks at their well-reasoned forum proposal and replies with a simple "No." Zero explanation for the negative reply. It disheartens people who put a lot of time and effort into the organization.

Captain Hindsite
Posted - 2011.08.28 20:46:00 - [39]
 

Originally by: Poetic Stanziel


I also complained about inactivity at the management and director levels within the Uni. Most of those people rarely log on or interact with the Uni in any way whatsoever, yet they retain their positions. Folks that are much lower rank work their asses off to propose good and interesting changes. Then weeks later some director logs on, looks at their well-reasoned forum proposal and replies with a simple "No." Zero explanation for the negative reply. It disheartens people who put a lot of time and effort into the organization.


Sounds a lot like CCP and the Eve community...

Rath Kelbore
Kings of Kill
EVE Animal Control
Posted - 2011.08.28 21:22:00 - [40]
 

Nothing against EVE UNI but making them immune to war decs ****es all over the whole idea of EVE.

EVE is suppose to be a sandbox where people motivated enough can make a great corporation like eve university if they want, and it's suppose to be a sandbox where people motivated enough can destroy a great corporation like eve university if they are able to.

CCP makes less sense to me everyday seems like.

Jacob Stiller
Posted - 2011.08.28 21:24:00 - [41]
 

Poetic, I too am starting to see some of E-Uni's rules as counterproductive and do question whether there are better alternatives given that anyone can access recordings of their classes. OTOH, I'm pretty sure that the pages of rules restrict my ability to discuss E-Uni on these forums. I've set my standing towards you to excellent. If you do have a plan in mind for a young future PvP pilot, feel free to send me an Eve Mail.

Poetic Stanziel
Gallente
Macbeth Transport and Freight LLC
Posted - 2011.08.28 22:51:00 - [42]
 

Originally by: Jacob Stiller
Poetic, I too am starting to see some of E-Uni's rules as counterproductive and do question whether there are better alternatives given that anyone can access recordings of their classes. OTOH, I'm pretty sure that the pages of rules restrict my ability to discuss E-Uni on these forums. I've set my standing towards you to excellent. If you do have a plan in mind for a young future PvP pilot, feel free to send me an Eve Mail.

Yeah, be careful what you say publicly. Criticising too often gets you a boot out the door. Thankfully I got my boot just as I earned my graduate medal. Warts aside, I'm quite proud of my E-Uni medal.

Nicolo da'Vicenza
Amarr
Divine Power.
Atlas.
Posted - 2011.08.28 23:04:00 - [43]
 

Other way around.
Make NPC corps like EVE-Uni.

Asuri Kinnes
Caldari
Adhocracy Incorporated
Posted - 2011.08.28 23:49:00 - [44]
 

Originally by: Poetic Stanziel
Edited by: Poetic Stanziel on 28/08/2011 07:58:13

Originally by: AkJon Ferguson
So what are these 'contradictory' rules you got booted for arguing against?

The fact that anyone, during war, can scout for a fleet in a T1 Frigate or an Interceptor, and not prove that they have any skills in actual scouting, but as soon as they would like to do it in a cov ops ship, they suddenly have to prove proficiency at scouting. The Uni seems to feel that losing cov ops ships entices people to war dec them. Cov ops pilots need to be certified by people who aren't certified under the program themselves. (Whereas, one can freely fly Heavy Interdictors around without knowing what they're doing at all.) Some of the contradictions in their rules annoyed me.

And while I mostly agree with their wartime operating procedures (WSOP), I also feel they are counter-productive at times and should allow for more flexibility depending on the type of wardec the Uni receives. (Also, the Uni does not prepare its students at all for operating under a wardec, it's simply a case of dock up and do nothing, so folks leaving the Uni afterwards for corps with more relaxed wardec procedures likely end up killed a lot because they don't know how to make effective use of d-scan, local, etc. to watch and prepare for war targets.) To some extent the Uni really only prepares you to be a carebear, they hide and shelter themselves from some of the harsher realities of the game. I think the Uni could do more in that area to train and prepare players.

I also complained about inactivity at the management and director levels within the Uni. Most of those people rarely log on or interact with the Uni in any way whatsoever, yet they retain their positions. Folks that are much lower rank work their asses off to propose good and interesting changes. Then weeks later some director logs on, looks at their well-reasoned forum proposal and replies with a simple "No." Zero explanation for the negative reply. It disheartens people who put a lot of time and effort into the organization.


Your such an original snowflake... Look at you...

How do you know the person "certifying you" on the CovOps ship isn't "certified" (or *extremely proficient*) on their main?

Eve-Uni is a good place to get the basics down.

Much more importantly, it's a place to make connections, which cannot be underestimated *at all*.

You (apparently) got asked to leave because you weren't capable of living by their rules.

HTFU it's their corp.

Kelduum Revaan
EVE University
Ivy League
Posted - 2011.08.29 01:28:00 - [45]
 

Originally by: AkJon Ferguson
So what are these 'contradictory' rules you got booted for arguing against?


In short, Poetic here was accounting for around 50% of my workload, versus every other E-UNI member. That alone is a significant achievement.

Also the posts, like this one, and the arguing with EN24... I really do have better things to do.


Anyway, to cover the initial post, I have been in communication with CCP about various things, but these tend to be queries on game mechanics and the odd suggestion on how to improve things (the new recruitment interface, for example), but I don't recall CCP suggesting that E-UNI become an NPC Corp, or otherwise become immune to war.

Some time ago I did make a list of ways to improve our teaching facilities, as providing new players a good environment and getting them to connect with each other undoubtably leads to higher retention levels.

These included revised calculations for calculating the wardec costs to promote more symmetrical warfare, adjustments to mechanics to make recruiting easier (such as editable automated messages on application) and amongst them was adding E-UNI to the Concord NPC faction in game, but this was a fairly 'out there' suggestion, and certainly not covered in much detail.

While it would be nice, and to be honest I would seriously consider it, I certainly havent heard anything about CCP looking to employ me to do something I already spend my spare time on - after all, I currently pay them to do the job.

Poetic Stanziel
Gallente
Macbeth Transport and Freight LLC
Posted - 2011.08.29 01:54:00 - [46]
 

Edited by: Poetic Stanziel on 29/08/2011 01:58:05
Originally by: Kelduum Revaan
In short, Poetic here was accounting for around 50% of my workload ...

Actually, since you and I don't talk all that often, it might be a fairer assessment that the people *****ing to you about my posts were accounting for 50% of your workload. So not me, but the whinier members of your staff. (Azmodeus really needs to calm down, stop powertripping, and telling people where they can and cannot post. CAOD, fine, but otherwise, we're free to chat where we want, otherwise ban all Uni communication everywhere but the E-Uni sites.) :)

As for me yapping on the EN24 site ... you guys are too overly worried that anything anyone ever says is going to cause a wardec. No one has wardecced you over anything I've ever said ... so no worries.

Anyhow. No hard feelings. I still support Kelduum for CSM7 and you have my vote.

Manfred Sideous
Body Count Inc.
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2011.08.29 03:12:00 - [47]
 

Originally by: Kelduum Revaan
Originally by: AkJon Ferguson
So what are these 'contradictory' rules you got booted for arguing against?


In short, Poetic here was accounting for around 50% of my workload, versus every other E-UNI member. That alone is a significant achievement.

Also the posts, like this one, and the arguing with EN24... I really do have better things to do.


Anyway, to cover the initial post, I have been in communication with CCP about various things, but these tend to be queries on game mechanics and the odd suggestion on how to improve things (the new recruitment interface, for example), but I don't recall CCP suggesting that E-UNI become an NPC Corp, or otherwise become immune to war.

Some time ago I did make a list of ways to improve our teaching facilities, as providing new players a good environment and getting them to connect with each other undoubtably leads to higher retention levels.

These included revised calculations for calculating the wardec costs to promote more symmetrical warfare, adjustments to mechanics to make recruiting easier (such as editable automated messages on application) and amongst them was adding E-UNI to the Concord NPC faction in game, but this was a fairly 'out there' suggestion, and certainly not covered in much detail.

While it would be nice, and to be honest I would seriously consider it, I certainly havent heard anything about CCP looking to employ me to do something I already spend my spare time on - after all, I currently pay them to do the job.



Fully support this for E-Uni. They provide a integral service that is beneficial for the ENTIRE game. They have been doing so now for years. Any support the community or CCP can offer imo is good for the game.

Silentbrick
Caldari
EVE University
Ivy League
Posted - 2011.08.29 04:18:00 - [48]
 

I think you got trolled. The only times I ever remember this being discussed on the Director forums was as one of our jokes, along with "We want a high sec system of our own." "We need a high sec Titan" and "We want combat IN stations, so we can bum rush the faildeccers and beat them to death with clubs and chainsaws."

It's always amazing to me what people claim are in the director's forums, since the reality is by far such a let down. Mostly we just discuss ways to improve the Uni or fix broken things. Seriously, we're honestly not very entertaining or plotting to rule the EVE Universe (in public). I really doubt our forums are much different than any other corp's leadership. But most of us would vote no on being an NPC corp. There's a real sense of pride in the fact we are NOT CCP and we don't want to be.

So consider this drama llama gunned down with the Ma Deuce of Truth and left in pieces.

Silentbrick
Fleet Admiral
Ivy League

Azmodeus Valar
EVE University
Ivy League
Posted - 2011.08.29 04:46:00 - [49]
 

Edited by: Azmodeus Valar on 29/08/2011 04:46:27
Originally by: Silentbrick
I really doubt our forums are much different than any other corp's leadership.


I'm betting there is a lot less drama and/or sensitive things in our director's lounge. Especially since the last 2 topics deal with a coding issue and our webhosting services.... Not exactly the stuff of legend.

Azmodeus Valar
Director of Logistics
Ivy League



AkJon Ferguson
JC Ferguson and Son Ltd
Ferguson Alliance
Posted - 2011.08.29 05:32:00 - [50]
 

Thanks for the interesting read.

Jacob Holland
Gallente
Weyland-Vulcan Industries
Posted - 2011.08.29 07:48:00 - [51]
 

What about the other training corps/alliances?

EVE-Uni is the largest and most successful at present but if they were to become an NPC corp then they would become the only feasible option.

And while you could define all training academies as special cases then how do you prevent abuses of the system? Goonwaffe trains a heck of a lot of new players after all.


The next difficulty would be how an NPC EVE-Uni would operate in terms of recruitment, not in terms of students but of tutors...

Poetic Stanziel
Gallente
Macbeth Transport and Freight LLC
Posted - 2011.08.29 08:15:00 - [52]
 

Edited by: Poetic Stanziel on 29/08/2011 08:35:01

Originally by: Kelduum Revaan
Some time ago I did make a list of ways to improve our teaching facilities ... amongst them was adding E-UNI to the Concord NPC faction in game.

Enough said. It was a suggestion in a list of suggestions to CCP on how to improve EVE University's function in-game. There might have been conversation on the issue after the list was submitted. How serious that conversation was (and might still be), only you and CCP know for sure. But this is obviously the truth. What I heard was obviously overamplified somewhat (as is the case in a lot of second-hand information, but the kernel of truth was still there.)

Originally by: Silentbrick
The only times I ever remember this being discussed on the Director forums was as one of our jokes.

You might want to read Kelduum's post before you post obvious b.s. Protip for the future, Admiral Ackbar Silentbrick. Wink Besides, bro, why so defensive? I posted what I heard and suspected to be true (in some part.) Kelduum confirmed it. I have not placed the suggestion in any particular light. Simply felt something like this should be discussed amongst the playerbase. Like I said, I can see both the benefit to the game for E-UNI as NPC corp, and the detriment to the game (breaks the sandbox.)

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.08.29 08:38:00 - [53]
 

Originally by: Poetic Stanziel
You might want to read Kelduum's post before you post obvious b.s.
You mean, like this part: I don't recall CCP suggesting that E-UNI become an NPC Corp, or otherwise become immune to war.

Yes, maybe you should read what he posted. Rolling Eyes

Poetic Stanziel
Gallente
Macbeth Transport and Freight LLC
Posted - 2011.08.29 08:45:00 - [54]
 

Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Poetic Stanziel
You might want to read Kelduum's post before you post obvious b.s.
You mean, like this part: I don't recall CCP suggesting that E-UNI become an NPC Corp, or otherwise become immune to war.

Yes, maybe you should read what he posted. Rolling Eyes

I did read it. CCP didn't initially suggest it. You are correct. The information I heard was incorrect on that point. The kernel of the information was true, as it was Kelduum who suggested it to CCP. Whether the conversation between the two organizations was short-lived or is ongoing, we do not know.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.08.29 08:48:00 - [55]
 

Edited by: Tippia on 29/08/2011 08:48:29
Originally by: Poetic Stanziel
The kernel of the information was true, as it was Kelduum who suggested it to CCP.
Not that either, since what he suggested was having them listed as part of CONCORD the faction not making them an NPC corp. The kernel wasn't true it was confused and warped.

Poetic Stanziel
Gallente
Macbeth Transport and Freight LLC
Posted - 2011.08.29 09:00:00 - [56]
 

Edited by: Poetic Stanziel on 29/08/2011 10:41:20
Originally by: Tippia
Edited by: Tippia on 29/08/2011 08:48:29
Originally by: Poetic Stanziel
The kernel of the information was true, as it was Kelduum who suggested it to CCP.
... what [Kelduum] suggested was having them listed as part of CONCORD the faction not making them an NPC corp.
And what would be the point of that if not to alter the ability to be wardecced? Curious.

Bluecollar Tweaker
Posted - 2011.08.29 12:16:00 - [57]
 

This is the biggest LOL of all time. I always thought Incarna was a feature made just for EUNI and now we have lolproof. Heh, and even more so epic comedy because Keduum AND Silent Brick have both decided to throw down on the OP troll. You two are so full of yourselves... the lols just never end.

Bottom line is this: Eve University is only important to themselves. They've been trying to get the game customized to their needs for years. They want everyone to believe they're here to help the game but the large majority of teachers/staff in the corporation have never played the game any other way; they've been in Eve University this whole time. The point is, what they teach is stale. Eve University is still egohurt over what happened to Big Blue and they are still playing the same game: LOCKDOWN. You want to see a fiefdom? Join Eve University... bunch of grown men trying to control the game of other people.

I hope CCP gives them special privilege. It will be the final nail in the coffin for me, but at the same time CCP will get the education corporation they deserve, one that will teach everyone to be nice, mine, and above all else, don't undock... use that great new feature.

Randy Foker
Posted - 2011.08.29 13:53:00 - [58]
 

I think this could potentially work but they should be booted to an normal NPC corp once they have a certain amount of SP.

Xolani1990
Minmatar
PonyWaffe
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2011.08.29 14:27:00 - [59]
 

Poetic, I really think you should start writing for EVE News 24 yourself, with the level of journalistic competency and integrity you encapsulate.

Ciar Meara
Amarr
Virtus Vindice
Posted - 2011.08.29 14:37:00 - [60]
 

Originally by: Sader Rykane
If it aint broke.


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