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Poetic Stanziel
Gallente
Macbeth Transport and Freight LLC
Posted - 2011.08.27 21:02:00 - [1]
 

http://poeticstanziel.blogspot.com/2011/08/eve-university-as-npc-corporation.html

Granted, I heard this second-hand, from a source that has access to the director and management forums, but it strikes me as true. CCP does view EVE University as a valuable player retention tool and has invalidated certain types of war declarations against it in the past.

CCP apparently approached Kelduum Revaan, CEO of EVE University, with a tentative offer of turning EVE University into an NPC corporation, though one that is still managed by players, thus solving the University's war declaration annoyances.

If the plan were to pass CCP final approval, and Kelduum accepted, he was also to be offered a position within CCP to run this new EVE University and act as the new player liaison.

-----------

Good or bad for the game? I can see it from both sides. Good for new player retention. It could become the defacto corporation that new players join at the start of the game.

Bad in that it offers carebears a relatively safe haven from non-Concordable PvP within a proper player-run corporate environment.

Nimrod Nemesis
Amarr
Royal Amarr Institute
Posted - 2011.08.27 21:12:00 - [2]
 

Edited by: Nimrod Nemesis on 27/08/2011 21:23:47
In an era when CCP is really pushing for people to accept risk and get out of safe space, I don't think this fits at all.

Seriously, they should benefit from all the wardecs. It's blobbing practice.

Sentient Blade
Posted - 2011.08.27 21:21:00 - [3]
 

Seems like a logical progression to me.

Donatella D'Tren
Eve Defence Force
Fatal Ascension
Posted - 2011.08.27 21:31:00 - [4]
 

Troll??

If not, I think this is a great idea. As long as once you leave, you can't reapply.

Sader Rykane
Amarr
The Dark Space Initiative
Revival Of The Talocan Empire
Posted - 2011.08.27 21:32:00 - [5]
 

If it aint broke.

Four OfThree
Caldari
School of Applied Knowledge
Posted - 2011.08.27 21:49:00 - [6]
 

I can only speak as a ninja miner in 0.3 and lower - I saw low sec controlled by bot alliances where for the great majority of the day nothing at all happened except bots or the hauler bots until a real player in the alliance report me as red in system and a swift response of -9 security ratings enforcers showed.
To bad a Coveter can fit 2 Ice Miners and a cloak and it's cycles exactly fill the cargohold.
Anyways , often I would see a fleet of Eve-Uni about 18 to 25 pilots sweep thru and kill anything in thier path. for me i didn't hang at gates in lowsec and when they came thru all in thier way paid the price. I personally loved it as i hid.
They offer valuable training and despite that internal squabble a few months ago are a valuable asset to Eve.
I believe there future has no business being voted on in Eve forums but should be up to the leadership of Eve-Uni.

Jovan Geldon
Gallente
Lead Farmers
Kill It With Fire
Posted - 2011.08.27 21:56:00 - [7]
 

It won't happen.

Poetic Stanziel
Gallente
Macbeth Transport and Freight LLC
Posted - 2011.08.27 22:08:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Four OfThree
They offer valuable training and are a valuable asset to Eve.

They are definitely a good training corporation for new players. And players passing through the University more often than not end up playing the game for years. The retention rate for new players that don't discover E-Uni is much much lower.

Dirk Magnum
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
Posted - 2011.08.27 22:18:00 - [9]
 

Are war decs not an essential part of the Eve Uni experience though? You couldn't have these if the corp became an NPC entity, and if the rules were changed to allow for continued war decs against Eve Uni then why make them NPC at all?

AkJon Ferguson
JC Ferguson and Son Ltd
Ferguson Alliance
Posted - 2011.08.27 22:21:00 - [10]
 

Assuming this isn't a troll ...

Would EVEUni be subject to the 11% NPC corp tax?

If so, I can't see them going along with the idea.

If not, it's a horribly unethical and unfair decision. CCP should not play favorites in a sandbox game, but they do it over and over again.

Poetic Stanziel
Gallente
Macbeth Transport and Freight LLC
Posted - 2011.08.27 22:26:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: AkJon Ferguson
Assuming this isn't a troll ...

Not at all. This is what I was told by an E-Uni manager. And it is what Kelduum told his directors and managers. It is supposed to be hush-hush.

The E-Uni manager could have been bull****ting the few of us in channel, but I doubt it. That would have been out of character for her/him.

As for the 11% tax (versus the Uni's usual 7.5% tax) ... I doubt such details have been discussed.

AkJon Ferguson
JC Ferguson and Son Ltd
Ferguson Alliance
Posted - 2011.08.27 22:34:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Poetic Stanziel
As for the 11% tax (versus the Uni's usual 7.5% tax) ... I doubt such details have been discussed.


It's not a question of 11% versus 7.5%.

If other people want immunity from wardecs they must pay an 11% ISK sink tax for that benefit. They get nothing else in return.

The same rule should apply to EVEUni if they want that benefit. They'd still have to (presumably) charge their 7.5% ON TOP of that.

Of course, the most equitable solution would be to make all corps eligible for wardec immunity in return for an 11% ISK sink tax paid to Concord. I can't remember the last time CCP chose the most equitable solution to a problem, though.

Ryhss
Caldari
The Excecutorans
Posted - 2011.08.27 22:38:00 - [13]
 

I think it's a good idea. I tried to join EveU last year but my standing with some corp they were high with wasn't high enough. :(

Lithalnas
Amarr
Privateers
Privateer Alliance
Posted - 2011.08.27 23:05:00 - [14]
 

I have alsways belived eve was totaly player content driven. Eve University is one of the contents that players have created and has been sucessful. When CCP tries to make content (ie the sand castle in their sand box) it falls flat. For proof simply look at faction warfare, or epic arcs or even missions. Very few people do faction warfare anymore and people only do missions for money not fun. Eve University has operated independently from CCP and has created content for its members. This is content that has lasted them a lifetime.

AnzacPaul
Perkone
Posted - 2011.08.27 23:05:00 - [15]
 

This is probably the worst idea i've ever heard.

Which is exactly why CCP will do it.

Jacob Stiller
Posted - 2011.08.27 23:06:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: AkJon Ferguson

If other people want immunity from wardecs they must pay an 11% ISK sink tax for that benefit.


And your average player run corp has 0% tax? Really?

AnzacPaul
Perkone
Posted - 2011.08.27 23:10:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Jacob Stiller
Originally by: AkJon Ferguson

If other people want immunity from wardecs they must pay an 11% ISK sink tax for that benefit.


And your average player run corp has 0% tax? Really?


Your average player run corp isn't immune to war declarations.

NeoShocker
Caldari
Interstellar eXodus
BricK sQuAD.
Posted - 2011.08.27 23:56:00 - [18]
 

Edited by: NeoShocker on 28/08/2011
I'm rather mixed. Whether this is a troll or not.

I love Eve-U even though I never been in there, but I know they help new players to the wonders of Eve. If I were a alliance leader, I would +blue them whenever and be welcomed to 0.0 space so they can explore the wonders of 0.0, plus they could help against my enemies. Anything that can help keep new players to keep checking out and playing Eve-Online, its great for marketting and can increase subscriber counts. So recognizing the Eve-U and sending new players into Eve-U is a good way to start off Eve, and people to talk and do things together. Unlike my experience, I played Eve by myself for first 2-3 months, trying to figure out ****. If I had a better start and support, I'd probably have 10m more SP, better skill training and stuff than I do now (it'd be 100m SP :O).

But having it as an NPC corp, which thus can make said corp immune to war dec, I don't support this and would be nothing more like any other NPC corp. So unless CCP can think up of great ideas that doesn't compromise the current mechanics (immune to war dec, corp mates shooting each other, etc), again in the end, I don't support this.

XIRUSPHERE
Gallente
Deadly Intent.
Posted - 2011.08.28 00:05:00 - [19]
 

If you can join a player run corp it should never be classed as NPC. Making E-uni immune to war declarations is just another ******ed idea from CCP. You guys can manage to blob pies to death and be cheap but you can't fight off a legitimate declaration which is amusing at best.

If such does come to pass CCP needs to ensure no loopholes are left open, IE no POS as well as CEO and directors having only figurehead positions and no true control over roles and assets.

You can paint it any way you want but I see an already inherently negative group that does nothing but train noobs to be tomorrows blobtastic nullbears and failers getting an even easier ride.

Asuri Kinnes
Caldari
Adhocracy Incorporated
Posted - 2011.08.28 00:42:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Poetic Stanziel
It is supposed to be hush-hush.

Then why didn't you keep it "Hush-Hush"? Seems to me your playing the part of (or are) an agent provocateur... Either that, or you have a very strange idea of "op-sec".ugh
Originally by: XIRUSPHERE
If you can join a player run corp it should never be classed as NPC. Making E-uni immune to war declarations is just another ******ed idea from CCP. You guys can manage to blob pies to death and be cheap but you can't fight off a legitimate declaration which is amusing at best.


I've seen this said of the Uni for the last 3.5 years, and still don't know what it means. You can't *make* a war dec end no matter what you do. You can't get in a station and make station humpers move out of the "comfort zone" and lets not even talk about neut RR...Rolling Eyes

Originally by: XIRUSPHERE
If such does come to pass CCP needs to ensure no loopholes are left open, IE no POS as well as CEO and directors having only figurehead positions and no true control over roles and assets.

I can see that working really well... ugh

Originally by: XIRUSPHERE
You can paint it any way you want but I see an already inherently negative group that does nothing but train noobs to be tomorrows blobtastic nullbears and failers getting an even easier ride.

"Inherently negative"? You must mean because "they don't do it my way..."Rolling Eyes

E-U does *not* teach people to be blobs... Try harder, that was pretty dam lame, tbqh...

AnzacPaul
Perkone
Posted - 2011.08.28 00:49:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Asuri Kinnes


E-U does *not* teach people to be blobs... Try harder, that was pretty dam lame, tbqh...


No, just the tactics they use teach people if you've got enough ships no matter how cheap and ****ty they are, you can win.

Asuri Kinnes
Caldari
Adhocracy Incorporated
Posted - 2011.08.28 00:54:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: AnzacPaul
Originally by: Asuri Kinnes


E-U does *not* teach people to be blobs... Try harder, that was pretty dam lame, tbqh...


No, just the tactics they use teach people if you've got enough ships no matter how cheap and ****ty they are, you can win.

No.

Ever since Eve started getting more and more people, more and more people have been banding together. I *sincerely* doubt "eve-uni" is responsible for "teaching the blob", because tbqh - that rant was going on 4 years ago when I was researching Eve before I joined.

Besides, with enough ships (i.e.: DPS) you *do* win. And that, in itself, is the problem (if there is one). People will do their best to make sure they win.

Eve Uni could go away tomorrow, and 1V1 PVP will not (somehow) make a miraculous resurgence... Because in Eve:

WINNING > ANYTHING (or so it seems from watching most of the player base).

XIRUSPHERE
Gallente
Deadly Intent.
Posted - 2011.08.28 00:55:00 - [23]
 

Edited by: XIRUSPHERE on 28/08/2011 01:01:48

Originally by: Asuri Kinnes
Originally by: Poetic Stanziel
It is supposed to be hush-hush.

Then why didn't you keep it "Hush-Hush"? Seems to me your playing the part of (or are) an agent provocateur... Either that, or you have a very strange idea of "op-sec".ugh
Originally by: XIRUSPHERE
If you can join a player run corp it should never be classed as NPC. Making E-uni immune to war declarations is just another ******ed idea from CCP. You guys can manage to blob pies to death and be cheap but you can't fight off a legitimate declaration which is amusing at best.


I've seen this said of the Uni for the last 3.5 years, and still don't know what it means. You can't *make* a war dec end no matter what you do. You can't get in a station and make station humpers move out of the "comfort zone" and lets not even talk about neut RR...Rolling Eyes

Originally by: XIRUSPHERE
If such does come to pass CCP needs to ensure no loopholes are left open, IE no POS as well as CEO and directors having only figurehead positions and no true control over roles and assets.

I can see that working really well... ugh

Originally by: XIRUSPHERE
You can paint it any way you want but I see an already inherently negative group that does nothing but train noobs to be tomorrows blobtastic nullbears and failers getting an even easier ride.

"Inherently negative"? You must mean because "they don't do it my way..."Rolling Eyes

E-U does *not* teach people to be blobs... Try harder, that was pretty dam lame, tbqh...


If you want the protections of being NPC it goes hand in hand with the restrictions of NPC. Nothing is wrong with that sentiment as NPC cannot launch POS or benefit from the logistic benefits of real corporations.

It's inherently negative because such practices foster and nurture the mentality of the blob and by and large the refusal to innovate or operate outside of it. If such a large and comprehensive organization cannot deal effectively with game mechanics involved in war declarations that have solutions what are they actually teaching people aside what general inquiry or thought could solve.

If playing my way is asking players to think, discover, and innovate rather than be another drone I suppose I am coming off as lame when people by and large don't want to be challenged.

Asuri Kinnes
Caldari
Adhocracy Incorporated
Posted - 2011.08.28 01:11:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: XIRUSPHERE
It's inherently negative because such practices foster and nurture the mentality of the blob and by and large the refusal to innovate or operate outside of it. If such a large and comprehensive organization cannot deal effectively with game mechanics involved in war declarations that have solutions what are they actually teaching people aside what general inquiry or thought could solve.

If playing my way is asking players to think, discover, and innovate rather than be another drone I suppose I am coming off as lame when people by and large don't want to be challenged.


One of the great things about the Uni (from my time) was that while they did want you to form up (at least with an FC that trained basic leadership/support skills to V/III) - no one was stopped from taking out small gangs, and in fact many people did.

However, from my time in the uni, all I saw was *very* experienced pvp'rs ****ing on whoever they could. ****, I could have taken a range fit dessie out, and probably the people we were flying against would have beat my ass purple in a n00b frigate!

TBQH - I didn't want that.

So, in a nutshell, E-Uni kept me (and *many, many* others) interested in the game, until we got our legs under us and felt comfortable in the game on our own... Losing many, many billions of isk in boats, and having fun.


KaarBaak
Minmatar
Seatec Astronomy
Posted - 2011.08.28 01:12:00 - [25]
 


I don't pretend to know a lot about E-Uni...never been a member, but my (second-hand) understanding is that they train players to become good Corp members who understand the roles of basic null Corp membership. I didn't think they train their grads to go out and immediately open a 500-man Corp or Alliance Exec Corp. The Corp policies/politics seem not related to their mission, but standard player Corp rules impede their mission.

If it becomes an NPC Corp with special rules, I think there will need to be a LOT of scrutiny on it's behavior. A CCP employee being CEO of a pseudo-player Corp could lead to accidental or intentional abuse.

Seems like it would lead to extensive complaints and entanglements that CCP would be prudent to avoid.

But, like a lot of things CCP says it's going to do...wait and see if it actually happens. Right now this is all speculation based on second-hand rumors.


Vincent Athena
Posted - 2011.08.28 01:45:00 - [26]
 

E-Uni has a POS, which you cannot have in an NPC corp. Would that go away? E-Uni members do activities that involve shooting each other. But if you are in an NPC corp and you shoot a fellow corp member CONCORD comes. Also if you can flip someone in an NPC corp the entire corp does not get the right to shoot.

Would E-uni get NPC corp like restrictions if this change was made?

Black Dranzer
Caldari
Posted - 2011.08.28 01:48:00 - [27]
 

Honestly, I'd be entirely in support of Eve Uni being made "official", in whatever capacity that might mean.

Magnus Orin
Minmatar
Wildly Inappropriate
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.08.28 01:49:00 - [28]
 

Probably a troll (not the OP, it was the OP who was trolled), but this would set an incredibly bad precedent if it were true.

Asuri Kinnes
Caldari
Adhocracy Incorporated
Posted - 2011.08.28 01:56:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: Magnus Orin
it was the OP who was trolled

I'm betting your right. If so, it's a *GOOD* one!

Laughing

Empy Ralt
Posted - 2011.08.28 02:18:00 - [30]
 


How about they re-think the war-declaration mechanics first. And then consider whether special immunities are required? I mean it's basically a station undock camping license and any attempt for a real "war" is frustrated by station games.


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