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blankseplocked Frigate PVP - Small Armor Rep wasted space? Use some other module?
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Chiang Kai-Shek
Posted - 2011.08.27 20:00:00 - [1]

Edited by: Chiang Kai-Shek on 27/08/2011 20:00:01
I'm getting started with frigate PVP'ing with my Federation Navy Comet, and would like some opinions / advice with fitting. Mainly, should I bother with a Small Armor Repair module (or faction / deepspace variant) or some other module?

Looking on BattleClinic, there seems to be two schools of thought. Some people believe that since frigates are so small and have so little eHP and that each rep can get only up to 50 eHPs, getting a few repair reps just isn't worth it. Instead, they opt for an armor hardner to increase the eHP by about +300, or they use a nano to increase speed and decrease agility. Others believe that when the fighting is close, the armor repper will save you and eek out a win. Often times, the small armor repper would be seen in conjunction with capacitor injector (and no webber) for cap stability.

So, to rep, or not to rep? That is the question.

I did some EFT math calculations (hardly accurate), and it seems as though if one can get in 8 rep cycles for approximately 350 eHP over 30 seconds, then it would be worth it. So if the fight will last more than 30 seconds, go with small armor rep setup, since an adaptive armor hardner will give you the same amount of eHP.

Of course, I have no extensive frigate PVP experience, so some real world (or virtual - in this case) advice / experience would be helpful. Assume that you can pick and choose the fight from frigates to BCs. Which setup is more viable?


Mara Abraham
The Tuskers
Posted - 2011.08.27 20:05:00 - [2]

Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
Posted - 2011.08.27 20:45:00 - [3]

Originally by: Chiang Kai-Shek
...I did some EFT math calculations (hardly accurate)...

There are a lot of frigates that benefit greatly from an armour repper, especially the various faction boats as they have higher base cap and EHP (built-in natural buffer) ...
The big limiter is cap, you are correct that it takes roughly 30s for a repairer to be better than a plate, so if you have the cap and expect a long'ish fight then by all means use them ..

If going up against bigger ships then don't bother, you will be neuted to zero in the first 20s of the fight which makes you a soft target .. plate against bigger boats and repairer against smalls (unless gangs where dps makes it moot Very Happy).

Larton Dretta
Posted - 2011.08.27 23:29:00 - [4]

if you're going to press keep at range 500m then no, the armor repairer won't work, however in the hands of a competent pilot, a frigate doesn't take much damage and an armor repairer helps a huge deal

also, stop browsing Battleclinic for your own sake

Maz3r Rakum
The Imperial Fedaykin
Posted - 2011.08.28 06:11:00 - [5]

Small armor reps take up relatively little fitting space. Frig pvp fits are almost always very tight fits, in addition most frigs that feature an armor rep will also have some sort of plate. With as fast and furious as frig 1v1s are you can pretty much perma heat your armor rep, and you will either be dead, they will be dead, or you will run out of cap long before burning out your lows. Additionally armor reps don't slow you down at all, and on ships with capless weapons allows you to take advantage of your spare capacitor. Especially if you are not getting neuted.

Sure if you have enough fitting space, resists, a larger plate, or another damage mod could be better served than an armor rep.

Get some experience flying these small ships and you will see how over heat management or using an armor rep many times will be the difference between winning and loosing.

Ministry of Destruction
Posted - 2011.08.28 11:12:00 - [6]

I would point you in the direction of Taurean Eltanin 's blog here

Especially the initial days where he went through 20 punishers and on to T2 frigates - lots of discussion around the merits of different fits after actual combat

FT Diomedes
Factio Paucorum
Posted - 2011.08.28 14:03:00 - [7]

BLUF - If it is a fight you have a chance of winning, then the SAR makes a difference.

I don't claim an extensive PVP resume, but I have been looking for fights in my alt's Rifter the last few days. So far, I have lost two of my 11 starting Rifters. Then I have a stack of other frigates to burn through before I step up to some faction frigate goodness. I have pretty decent PvP experience in bigger ships, but I'm still learning smaller ship PvP. My observation is as follows:

I use a standard Rifter with 200mm plate, DCU II, and SAR II. Cap lasts as long as the ship and not one second longer. Nos helps a little bit with more cap.

I got into a 1v1 with an inexperienced Dramiel pilot. We both were stupid and warped directly to a gate and got caught in the bubble. Fight started at less than 5k. After a brief moment of thinking "Eeek! I'm 5km from a Dramiel!" and not knowing what to do, I realized, "Yes! I'm only 5km from that Dramiel!" I scrammed and webbed him and got as close to him as I could. The fight lasted perhaps a minute. Maybe longer, maybe shorter - it's not like I had a stopwatch and I definitely get excited during PvP. I lost for several reasons:
1. I am inexperienced
2. I was loaded with barrage when it started.
3. I didn't overload everything right away.
4. His ship was better than mine.
5. Not sure whether I should have shot his drones or not. I think my only hope was to kill him.

Anyway, noob lesson learned. What I did notice was that I had one tough little Rifter. The SAR might have made the difference if I had overheated everything right from the start. The Dramiel was at peak recharge when I finally popped.

Next night, go out to NPC 0.0, warp to station, see ship that I think is a Slasher on station, again, less than 5km away. Trying to decide what he is going to do, he begins locking me. I return the favor. I get right on him trying to orbit at 500 and have RF Phased Plasma loaded. Scram, web, nos, everything overheated. I get down to about 30% Armor before my SAR starts to really kick in. Then he pops. I get his pod and start to loot the wreck. Turns out it was an arty fitted Stilletto. Who knew such a thing existed? Oh well, first solo kill in 4.5 years in Eve. I'll take it. Because I was stupid and waited around, he has friends on the field. A Falcon and a Brutix to be exact. Bad idea to wait around and loot. I'm pointed, so I cannot warp out. I am permajammed. So, I overheat the SAR again and sit on the station until my aggro timer wears off and dock up. Manage to dock with 70% hull and the SAR still going strong.

I lost the Rifter later that evening to the same pilot in a Jaguar (and his buddy the Falcon and the Brutix), but learned something from each fight. I have been happy with my SAR fit on the Rifter so far. If I am close enough to scram and web, then I am also close enough to be shooting and Nosing. In those situations, in a 1v1, I have a chance of winning. My SAR increases my chances of survival. So, I will keep fitting one.


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