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Gemberslaafje
Vivicide
Posted - 2011.08.27 18:18:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Gemberslaafje on 27/08/2011 18:22:54
How about a special role for Destroyers?

Destroyers can see Cloaked ships on overview.
Destroyers can see Cloaked ships on scan.
Destroyers can see Cloaked ships on probes.

On overview, they can see their distance, shiptype etc. Possibly delayed to give gatecamp busters a better chance of surviving.
On scan/Probes they can just see the ship being there, without distance.


Restrictions:
They cannot lock the cloaked ship.
They cannot warp to the cloaked ship (and/or get a 100% scan result)
It should be clear the ship is cloaked - e.g. greyed out.
Cloaked Destroyers (Destroyers with any form of cloak equipped) should not have this ability.

Pros:
Destroyers have a role, the traditional one of anti-submarine.
Defending party will be able to know the whereabouts of a cloaker, at least within a few AU's, without compromising the cloaker altogether.
Party play is promoted:
- A lot of destroyers triangulating might be able to uncloak a cloaker (if he doesn't warp off early)
- Carebears can use destroyers to have a better idea of what the cloaker is doing.

Cons:
Cloakers aren't *completely* invisible anymore.

Jiao Governator
Posted - 2011.08.27 18:35:00 - [2]
 

This is an interesting idea. Maybe as a high power module that can only be fitted to a Destroyer, with a long duration (maybe 1m) but which can be shut off during its cycle (but can't be used again until the duration is over) and which does not allow the Destroyer to warp while active.

Gemberslaafje
Vivicide
Posted - 2011.08.27 18:42:00 - [3]
 

I'm wondering if it really needs that 1 minute restriction - Safespot cloakers are safe anyway (as you can't probe em) and if the cloaker's on grid, let him play the meta game with the destroyers I'd say.

Also, be aware that the Destroyer is a relatively weak ship. A Recon might be able to bait one *I may be able to uncloak em* Destroyer at a planet or something, and pop him and recloak before his friends get there.

I think it'd add an interesting side to the game.

grazer gin
Posted - 2011.08.27 19:05:00 - [4]
 

00 carebears = a bunch of whiny crying types that need to HTFU (yeah you say that to us highsec carebears a LOT)

Gemberslaafje
Vivicide
Posted - 2011.08.27 19:06:00 - [5]
 

Edited by: Gemberslaafje on 27/08/2011 19:14:33
Originally by: grazer gin
00 carebears = a bunch of whiny crying types that need to HTFU (yeah you say that to us highsec carebears a LOT)


... have I just been called a carebear?

EDIT: In addition, if you can keep a Destroyer alive in 0.0 NPC-anything (belt/plex/etc) you'd DESERVE being able to do something like this... And yes, destroyers pop fast, especially in anything remotely profitable.

Sphit Ker
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2011.08.27 19:33:00 - [6]
 

Edited by: Sphit Ker on 27/08/2011 19:34:06
I like the core idea of limited cloak detection. The crux of this is to figure out how to implement detectable cloak without completely neglecting the point of cloaking per se.

I suggested a way to detect on-grid cloakies in the past but it did not seam to get traction. It only provides it's distance on overview and that's all. No bracket, no type, no pilot name, no velocity/radial/transversal, no corp/alliance tag etc. Nothing but distance. Gotta work with friends to triangulate the mark. Sweet cat and mouse gameplay assured.

The point of cloaking remains largely intact. AFK cloakers will still be AFK cloakers but at least they will be force to AFK off-grid, limiting their magic intel harvester and invulnerable all-seeing eye to some level. Stuck with little but d-scanning.

Now, what is that ~thing~ is and how does it work? ... that's not my problem to figure out! Twisted Evil
- A POS mod?
- A new interdictor/standard probe ?
- A deployable?
- A module?

Gemberslaafje
Vivicide
Posted - 2011.08.27 22:40:00 - [7]
 

Edited by: Gemberslaafje on 27/08/2011 22:40:15
Originally by: Sphit Ker
I suggested a way to detect on-grid cloakies in the past but it did not seam to get traction. It only provides it's distance on overview and that's all. No bracket, no type, no pilot name, no velocity/radial/transversal, no corp/alliance tag etc. Nothing but distance. Gotta work with friends to triangulate the mark. Sweet cat and mouse gameplay assured.


This is exactly what I'm getting at. Cat and Mouse gameplay. Not making the 00 carebear less vulnerable (to be honest, unless local changes there is no real danger to begin with) nor making the cloak any less of a threat. I actually think a detectable cloak makes more of a threat - Use it to your advantage and spring the trap!

Diablo Ex
Caldari
The Devil's Reject's
Posted - 2011.08.28 02:49:00 - [8]
 

Ok, now we are discussing a feasible compromise. Clearly, I'm one who has adamantly said No to previous suggestions about Nerfing the Cloak. This suggestion has a glint of promise. It rejuvenates a ship class that is in bad need of a purpose (Destroyers), and it more accurately reflects RL technological solutions to that nasty "unseen" enemy that is stalking your commercial vessels.

My Suggestions:

Destroyers get a "Role" ability to use a variant of the Interdiction Sphere Launcher, that can launch a "Graviton Disruption Wave" that spans outward over a significant area (suggestion 80km radius). Since Cloaked ships move rather slowly, and Stealth Bombers need to maneuver within 30-40km of a target, the Disruption Wave should reach out a sufficient distance to "uncloak" any eminent threats to the fleet which the Destroyer is defending. It might even be added to the Interdiction Sphere as an additional effect since both Warp Drives and Cloaks function on similar Graviton and Quantum mechanics.

This is something that I could live with, and allows some risk for Cloaky ships that are on grid with Destroyers or Interdictors.

Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
Posted - 2011.08.28 11:43:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Gemberslaafje
Destroyers can see Cloaked ships on overview.
No, completely negates covert intel gathering.

Originally by: Gemberslaafje
Destroyers can see Cloaked ships on scan.
Sure, but dependant upon what local is replaced with.

Originally by: Gemberslaafje
Destroyers can see Cloaked ships on probes.
No, D-scan should be enough.

Velicitia
Gallente
Open Designs
Posted - 2011.08.28 13:00:00 - [10]
 

Edited by: Velicitia on 28/08/2011 13:04:28
Like most of what you said, save this...

Originally by: Diablo Ex
Disruption Wave should reach out a sufficient distance to "uncloak" any eminent threats to the fleet which the Destroyer is defending.


How about this instead:

Dessies get "sonar" (module). You get passive/active mode.

Passive mode -> Only good within 10-20 km. You get a greyed out ship (no type, no nothing at base skills), with only transversal/speed. Higher levels in "sonar" let you figure out what it is you're listening to, but you're also gonna need "Amarrian/Caldari/Gallente/Matari ship design" or something to get better than "maybe frigate, maybe cruiser" type intel.

with "sonar" 5, you know the relative size (so can say frig/cruiser/whatever), but that's it. For some people that might be enough ... but if you take the "ship design" skills, you'll be able to say (assuming high levels) that it's a $RACIAL $TYPE frigate/cruiser (where $TYPE is "standard" or "advanced") -- e.g. "Caldari Standard Frigate" (but you won't know "what" it is ... maybe "advanced" skills in the ship design stuff would allow you to get that info...)

Active Mode -> you send out a "ping" (max range is 60-80km, 3-5 sec interval) that doesn't DECLOAK the ship. However, it gives you the passive details as well as range, and enough that your ship can lock on (breaking his cloak). Thing is, you light up on overview (i.e. like a cyno) while the module's active, and you can't move fast (no MWD/AB... just normal propulsion). However, with active mode running, your targeting sensor strength is reduced, and you can't target as far.


Taking the catalyst:
current/passive mode "sonar"
500mm base res
33km base range

active mode "sonar":
300mm (or less) res
16.5km base range


so, if you see a guy out at 50km... you're gonna need sebos (local or remote) to try and catch him... or hope he wasn't paying attention to that ranging ping so you can get close enough to lock him...

Diablo Ex
Caldari
The Devil's Reject's
Posted - 2011.08.28 15:12:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Velicitia

How about this instead:

Dessies get "sonar" (module). You get passive/active mode.


Well, "Sonar" is not very useful in a vacuum environment. In studying the game mechanics, related skills and associated modules, I would say that a Cloaked ship is hiding behind a form of Graviton Warp Field similar to what a MWD produces, but instead of Increasing Signature and Speed, it drastically REDUCES both Signature and Speed. This would be a reasonable explanation for why cloaked ships are virtually immobile, the improved cloaks act as if under heavy webbing, and the Covert form requires incredible power output to move at near normal "Slowboat" speed.

By using that assumption, it would be affected by Graviton wave emitters such as Warp Disruptors and Interdiction Bubbles, except that these kinds of modules would require being "Tuned" for disrupting Cloaks.

Quote:

Passive mode -> Only good within 10-20 km. You get a greyed out ship (no type, no nothing at base skills), with only transversal/speed. Higher levels in "sonar" let you figure out what it is you're listening to, but you're also gonna need "Amarrian/Caldari/Gallente/Matari ship design" or something to get better than "maybe frigate, maybe cruiser" type intel.

with "sonar" 5, you know the relative size (so can say frig/cruiser/whatever), but that's it. For some people that might be enough ... but if you take the "ship design" skills, you'll be able to say (assuming high levels) that it's a $RACIAL $TYPE frigate/cruiser (where $TYPE is "standard" or "advanced") -- e.g. "Caldari Standard Frigate" (but you won't know "what" it is ... maybe "advanced" skills in the ship design stuff would allow you to get that info...)

Active Mode -> you send out a "ping" (max range is 60-80km, 3-5 sec interval) that doesn't DECLOAK the ship. However, it gives you the passive details as well as range, and enough that your ship can lock on (breaking his cloak). Thing is, you light up on overview (i.e. like a cyno) while the module's active, and you can't move fast (no MWD/AB... just normal propulsion). However, with active mode running, your targeting sensor strength is reduced, and you can't target as far.


Having an "Active" mode is fine, but not a "Passive" one. There is a reason for actively searching for cloakies, your passive is Local.

Velicitia
Gallente
Open Designs
Posted - 2011.08.28 15:41:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Diablo Ex
Originally by: Velicitia

How about this instead:

Dessies get "sonar" (module). You get passive/active mode.


Well, "Sonar" is not very useful in a vacuum environment. In studying the game mechanics, related skills and associated modules, I would say that a Cloaked ship is hiding behind a form of Graviton Warp Field similar to what a MWD produces, but instead of Increasing Signature and Speed, it drastically REDUCES both Signature and Speed. This would be a reasonable explanation for why cloaked ships are virtually immobile, the improved cloaks act as if under heavy webbing, and the Covert form requires incredible power output to move at near normal "Slowboat" speed.

By using that assumption, it would be affected by Graviton wave emitters such as Warp Disruptors and Interdiction Bubbles, except that these kinds of modules would require being "Tuned" for disrupting Cloaks.

Quote:

Passive mode -> Only good within 10-20 km. You get a greyed out ship (no type, no nothing at base skills), with only transversal/speed. Higher levels in "sonar" let you figure out what it is you're listening to, but you're also gonna need "Amarrian/Caldari/Gallente/Matari ship design" or something to get better than "maybe frigate, maybe cruiser" type intel.

with "sonar" 5, you know the relative size (so can say frig/cruiser/whatever), but that's it. For some people that might be enough ... but if you take the "ship design" skills, you'll be able to say (assuming high levels) that it's a $RACIAL $TYPE frigate/cruiser (where $TYPE is "standard" or "advanced") -- e.g. "Caldari Standard Frigate" (but you won't know "what" it is ... maybe "advanced" skills in the ship design stuff would allow you to get that info...)

Active Mode -> you send out a "ping" (max range is 60-80km, 3-5 sec interval) that doesn't DECLOAK the ship. However, it gives you the passive details as well as range, and enough that your ship can lock on (breaking his cloak). Thing is, you light up on overview (i.e. like a cyno) while the module's active, and you can't move fast (no MWD/AB... just normal propulsion). However, with active mode running, your targeting sensor strength is reduced, and you can't target as far.


Having an "Active" mode is fine, but not a "Passive" one. There is a reason for actively searching for cloakies, your passive is Local.



hence quotes on "sonar" -- couldn't think of a better name.Cool

as for passive mode ... if there's no local (w-space, and whatever they're planning on doing to local in k-space), then having something would be nice...

Lessoroz
AQUILA INC
Posted - 2011.08.28 16:31:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Gemberslaafje

Destroyers have a role, the traditional one of anti-submarine.




Destroyer suddenly decloaks a proteus, proceeds to die in a blazing one shot fire to said proteus.

Nautsyn Thome
Minmatar
Shark Investments
Posted - 2011.08.29 08:39:00 - [14]
 

Edited by: Nautsyn Thome on 29/08/2011 08:43:00
Edited by: Nautsyn Thome on 29/08/2011 08:41:49
Originally by: Lessoroz
Originally by: Gemberslaafje

Destroyers have a role, the traditional one of anti-submarine.




Destroyer suddenly decloaks a proteus, proceeds to die in a blazing one shot fire to said proteus.


Just as in WW2 (just switch Proteus with Type VII) yeah i know, ofc the destroyer should be more a threat to the cloaked ship as vice versa. ;)

I like the op's idea. Its quite obvious the destroyer should have this role. how this role would be applied doesnt matter that much, just make it happen.

Gemberslaafje
Vivicide
Posted - 2011.08.29 08:53:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Mag's
No, completely negates covert intel gathering.

Why, exactly?

If there is a neutral in local, currently you know he's probably spying on you one way or another anyway.

The only thing Destroyers (And, i should add, ONLY destroyers.. not even Interdictors) gain is the fact that they are on-grid - and possibly, how far away they are. And maybe, what shiptype it is.

That's not a real lot to work on. In addition, how many people would take a Destroyer instead of a proper PVP ship - JUST to be able to detect cloakies?

And there's the other point above, what if a destroyer finds a cloaked T3 ship or recon? Destroyers aren't very powerful, so that could be a funny cat and mouse game anyway.

Nautsyn Thome
Minmatar
Shark Investments
Posted - 2011.08.29 09:01:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Gemberslaafje
And there's the other point above, what if a destroyer finds a cloaked T3 ship or recon? Destroyers aren't very powerful, so that could be a funny cat and mouse game anyway.


It should be clear, that a solo dd who tries to decloak a ship, has to take the risk of becoming the victim itself. Ofc, if they work as part of a team, then they are deadly even to t3 ships.

Robert Caldera
Posted - 2011.08.29 10:12:00 - [17]
 

cloak is fine, no need for a nerf.

Nautsyn Thome
Minmatar
Shark Investments
Posted - 2011.08.29 10:23:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Robert Caldera
cloak is fine, no need for a nerf.


giving a ship a new role (which it needed anyway) and at the same time introducing a counter to a mechanic which hadnt one before is no nerf imo.

i want to emphasize that i dont know how this could happen, only that it would be an obvious role for a destroyer.


Gemberslaafje
Vivicide
Posted - 2011.08.29 10:35:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Robert Caldera
cloak is fine, no need for a nerf.


Oh god, not another one of those "My part of EVE is fine, no need for a nerf" people...

Listen, I also love local, I love the current cloak mechanics, especially in a Recon or a Blackops with someone in a cloak with covert cyno, etcetera.

However, I'm also a force of change. Of improvement. Of thinking of ways to make EVE a more interesting place. Not just for the carebear, not just for the PvPer, but for, well, the 'neutral spectator' i guess. Even if that means I shoot myself in my own foot.

Local needs to change as it destroys immersion. It's immediate and unrealistic. Does that mean I don't use it? Does that mean when I'm ratting I've got my local closed and my DScan open? Of course not.

Cloak by itself is a fine mechanic. Keeps your enemies on their toes, and gives you a chance to get ganks or at least disrupt the enemies ISK flow. I do NOT want this changed.

However, this game should also promote working together. In more ship types then one. If destroyers were able to vaguely see where the cloaky is - NOT pinpoint them in any way, just notice them in the area - there would be a reason for lower specced characters to take that useless destroyer with them. In addition, this could work to the cloaky's advantage. What if you'd be reported "He's on the station" and some guy thinks "hell, if he's on the station I can rat"? Sure, a noob thought, but it won't happen now as the cloaky will be "Somewhere in system" - and again, I don't like the current local mechanic, but they are what they are... Look at one of my earlier feature requests to have that changed.

Oh well, in the end it's CCP, and maybe a bit of CSM which decides this... the only thing I can do is keeping the ideas alive.

Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
Posted - 2011.08.29 14:20:00 - [20]
 

Edited by: Mag''s on 29/08/2011 14:20:51
Originally by: Gemberslaafje
Originally by: Mag's
No, completely negates covert intel gathering.

Why, exactly?

If there is a neutral in local, currently you know he's probably spying on you one way or another anyway.
You basically answered it yourself.
Probably spying.
In other words you know he's there because local is telling you, but don't know what he's doing. With a cloaker showing in overview, you would know. I don't think that's a balanced approach.

Ingvar Angst
Amarr
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
Talocan United
Posted - 2011.08.29 16:13:00 - [21]
 

The only thing that would make sense for a destroyer to be able to "see" a cloaked ship would be if they had to actively "ping" for it, giving away their position to everyone on the map by doing so. It should also only be effective over a relatively short range, a few AU tops, and be directional instead of a full sphere, like a 15 degree cone directly in front. No free insta-locates, earn it you freakin' whiner. It's still a cry-baby nerf to cloaking by people afraid of ships sitting there doing nothing.

Diablo Ex
Caldari
The Devil's Reject's
Posted - 2011.08.29 17:33:00 - [22]
 

What I like most about this Idea, is it would encourage nullsec Carebears to bring PvP capable "Escorts" along to guard their activities. The Destroyer is the perfect platform for this. No more solo missioning, solo mining, or solo ratting. EvE is a community, Corps are suppose to work together.

The more I think about it, the more I like the idea of having a Destroyer "bloodhound" on my trail. It might liven up those long hours of drudgery watching that station full of cowards that are too fearful to undock.

Give the Destroyer the ability to uncloak anything on-grid with it, as the Area of Effect Active countermeasure, and make the cloak appear as a Gravitational Anomaly to probes. Give the Destroyer a nice scan bonus too...

It will not bother me a bit.

Ingvar Angst
Amarr
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
Talocan United
Posted - 2011.08.29 18:01:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Diablo Ex
What I like most about this Idea, is it would encourage nullsec Carebears to bring PvP capable "Escorts" along to guard their activities. The Destroyer is the perfect platform for this. No more solo missioning, solo mining, or solo ratting. EvE is a community, Corps are suppose to work together.

The more I think about it, the more I like the idea of having a Destroyer "bloodhound" on my trail. It might liven up those long hours of drudgery watching that station full of cowards that are too fearful to undock.

Give the Destroyer the ability to uncloak anything on-grid with it, as the Area of Effect Active countermeasure, and make the cloak appear as a Gravitational Anomaly to probes. Give the Destroyer a nice scan bonus too...

It will not bother me a bit.


It'll also make the bot-drivers in null sleep easier while their mining and ratting bots are at it.

Diablo Ex
Caldari
The Devil's Reject's
Posted - 2011.08.29 20:02:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Ingvar Angst


It'll also make the bot-drivers in null sleep easier while their mining and ratting bots are at it.


How So?

With the Cloaky still in local, the Bots will remain docked up.
If they don't then when I land on the Grid then they will scatter off...
It will take one major AI bot to replace a live player.
The Cloaky will still disrupt Botting ops

Alberio
Posted - 2011.08.29 20:07:00 - [25]
 

I kind of like the idea of the Destroyer being an anti-cloak ship (or a 'sub-hunter'). Here are some other ideas:

1) Bring back mines. Destroyers could become the new mine-layers. Specifically, perhaps destroyers can only launch a max of 5 or 10 mines, and they would only go off when/if they detect a cloaked vessel. If someone gets in proximity of a mine, it would pop, and the resulting explosion temporarily decloaks the victim. Perhaps mines are lost if the destroyer moves off-grid, preventing folks from laying 1000 mines and then swapping into another ship. In a sense, laying mines would be analogous to dropping depth charges or leaving a minefield for a submarine.

And before people whine about not reading the bajillion previous mine-laying-threads, I've read them. I feel that a) a specialized mine-laying ship, coupled with b) specialized mine-laying skills, with c) a specific allowed number of mines per ship/player/grid, and d) a specialized trigger for mine destruction (cloaked-ships) may solve a lot of the issues.

Maybe not, though. It's really just a pie-in-the-sky idea.

2) Perhaps destroyers can fit a special combat probe launcher, which behaves much like the standard model does only only it's range is about 100km or so. Via the tactical overview, you can zoom out, deploy probes, and using the standard probing method, acquire a signature which you can click on and move towards. Like standard scanning, the signal would bounce around depending on your astrometric pinpointing skill, acquisition would reduce scan time (very helpful in this situation - perhaps to near zero time scanning at level 5), etc.

Again, a specialized ship + a specialized cloaked-ship probing skill + a specialized module set (and player skillset) + only being able to hunt down a cloaked ship on the same grid might mitigate complaints about nerfing cloaking. Much like the idea of a sonar 'pinging', the probes would be moved around to best triangulate the ship and get the best signal lock, and would need to be activated.

Just a couple of thoughts...


Lenasha
Posted - 2011.08.29 20:42:00 - [26]
 

I would prefer to have a new destroyer type made. Destroyers have so little love and a new model would be nice to see.

I like the idea of making it be able to find a cloaked ship but limited.

My suggestions. Give it 2 new probe types, long range and short range cloak detectors.
  • Long range you can only determine if a cloak is in system.


    1. In order to determine how many cloaks are in system you need to launch aditional probes

    2. (I'm not sure what mini game you can create to determine how many cloaked ships are in system but I am sure there is something that can be thought of)

  • Short range is for grid only. This would work much the same as the standard use of probes.


This along with removal of cloaked ships from local would create a new dynamic for cloaked ships. AFK cloakers would remain safe and would require the local population to actually look for them. Gate/station/astroid... cloakers would need to remain active or they get popped, it wouldn't take much for gate cloakers to be able to remain undetected but it would require activity.

Gemberslaafje
Vivicide
Posted - 2011.08.30 07:21:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Lenasha
This along with removal of cloaked ships from local would create a new dynamic for cloaked ships. AFK cloakers would remain safe and would require the local population to actually look for them. Gate/station/astroid... cloakers would need to remain active or they get popped, it wouldn't take much for gate cloakers to be able to remain undetected but it would require activity.


Yes, that could work.

Cloaky pro's: Not in local chat (or not in local chat unless they actually say something)
Absolutely unfindable to anything but Destroyers.

Cloaky con's: if in a safespot can be detected by a destroyer or a module fittable by a destroyer (or a destroyer-like ship, fine)
if on grid with anything can be found. Not insta-detected or insta-decloaked, but with time and effort from destroyers (etc) they can eventually be found.

---
Discourages to be AFK on grid: If you're AFK, you probably want people to 'ping' you if they so desire, but you don't want them to find you. However, there could be times (e.g. in PLEXes or combat sites) where you want to be AFK or semi-AFK, because it's unlikely but possible a carebear first scouts the site with a destroyer.

Doesn't stop the current mechanic of AFK cloaking: While you're not in local, you are ping-able. Making it an active mechanic rather then a passive one.

Increases your chances to 'grab' something: Not every system will have a destroyer. Not every pilot will have constant attention. Right now, as long as you keep an eye on local every, say, 10 seconds, you'll be pretty safe (obviously dependent on what you're in and what you're doing), but then, if you're not paying attention, and you miss the quick flash of a neutral coming in system and re-cloaking, you will be oblivious. Unless you brought someone in a Destroyer. And even then, the destroyer won't be able to know if the ship is friendly or not.

Oooh the possibilities! From both sides of the pie!

Ciar Meara
Amarr
Virtus Vindice
Posted - 2011.08.30 08:05:00 - [28]
 

Destroyers should be able to find ships just like destroyers in a wet navy can find submarines.

However try telling that to CCP, since the start of the destroyer class people have been saying this.

Although I do think that they need a specific module for it, or even a tech II destroyer.

or a Tech II that can relay that data to other tech II destroyers like hunter/killer groups.

Gemberslaafje
Vivicide
Posted - 2011.08.30 08:16:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: Ciar Meara
Destroyers should be able to find ships just like destroyers in a wet navy can find submarines.

However try telling that to CCP, since the start of the destroyer class people have been saying this.

Although I do think that they need a specific module for it, or even a tech II destroyer.

or a Tech II that can relay that data to other tech II destroyers like hunter/killer groups.


The reason I'm suggesting this with Destroyers (T1 specifically for now) is BECAUSE they're underused, underpowered etcetera. By giving them a unique role, you can have them used. They'll still be underpowered, but they would have a specific function.

Robert Caldera
Posted - 2011.08.30 08:58:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Nautsyn Thome

giving a ship a new role (which it needed anyway) and at the same time introducing a counter to a mechanic which hadnt one before is no nerf imo.


how is adding an effective counter to a mechanic, which does not need one, NOT a nerf??


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