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blankseplocked A Reminder to CCP: We do not want microtransactions period.
 
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Skex Relbore
Gallente
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
Posted - 2011.09.01 19:15:00 - [211]
 

Originally by: Black Dranzer
If you guys hate it so much, you need to quit.

That's not the usual smarmy "herp derp you wouldn't have the guts can I have your stuff" advice, that's actual genuine advice. Companies need to be held accountable for their bull****, and the only way to do such a thing is to cancel your subscription. If you're not willing to stop giving CCP money (and PLEX DOES count as giving them your money) then your complaints are meaningless, because as far as CCP is concerned, a paying customer is a happy customer.

Feel free to talk about CCP while your account expires, but still.


To be perfectly frank I hope that I'm wrong about the path CCP is intending to take.

I hope that the people like Mendolus are right and I'm wrong, because frankly I do like the game.

In fact most of the people who are angry/concerned/whatever over the changes feel that way because they like the game, If they hated it they would have simply cancelled their accounts and found some other hobby.

I'm a relative newcomer to the game, still I've got just over 2 years invested in this game, which isn't something I'm ready to just toss out; I still enjoy logging in and playing, and I still have plans of things I'd like to do in the long run.

I actually did cancel my account and I'm currently debating what I'm going to do when it finally expires later this month.

Most likely as long as no P2W stuff is introduced I'll renew it. I canceled mostly to send the message to CCP that yes I'm serious when I say I don't want P2W in this game.

Now I can't speak for everyone but I suspect many in the "no MT" camp as it were feel the same, hell many of the people (such as Mendolus for example)who think I'm being premature in my judgement are also opposed to MT.

I mostly get involved in these debates because quite frankly I enjoy arguing on the Internets, I'm in a similar situation and frankly mindset as my worthy opponent Mendolus on this matter. I don't really think anything I say on this forum will make all that much difference ultimately in what CCP does. Either they are sincere in their claim that they don't want to introduce P2W or they aren't. Time will tell.

Hell these forum will be relegated to archived obscurity soon anyway so we'll have to fight all these fights all over again when the new forums go live (assuming they don't get yanked instantly again)

One thing though is that I'm pretty firmly convinced that there are some paid PR shills here pushing the "MT is good" idea to soften the ground for more P2W creep. That's pretty much boilerplate PR practice nowadays. So it's not surprising. As one poster pointed out it is somewhat telling that CCP hired a PR firm and now we get all these pro-MT threads popping up with ****poor arguments and utter representations of why people oppose P2W. And I don't like leaving such nonsense unanswered.

Silly **** like "people are mad about the prices because they're poor" While I'm sure there are some nitwits out there mad about that the most common sentiment is concern over P2W and the potential affects the Cash shop could have on developer priorities and resource allocation since bean counters, executives and investors like things that have tangible quantifiable financial returns over those that are intangible and difficult to quantify though potentially more valuable.

There is also the concern about the potential affects that such MT could have on the in game economy.

But hatred of the game or even CCP is not a part of the motivation.




Sullen Skoung
Posted - 2011.09.01 19:22:00 - [212]
 

Edited by: Sullen Skoung on 01/09/2011 19:24:22
Originally by: Mendolus
Originally by: Sullen Skoung
...


So are you telling me that EVE is not like other MMOs and supports multiple clients or should support them even when as noted above, it does not and CCP has obviously not supported it for eight years running?

You are pretty irrational, friend.


lol IM irrational

300k accounts gets cut down by at LEAST a third if you cut out the possibility of running multiple clients.

Yeah MY BAD I thought CCP LIKED money.

Given youre OBVIOUSLY never gonna see reason here, Ill use your exit strategy

You seem to take this game a little too seriously, and I am not in the mood to discuss things at that level, so I will end this here.
Good luck to you, I hope you find some way to entertain yourself in the future in other games, sounds like this one is done for you.

Mendolus
Aurelius Federation
Posted - 2011.09.01 19:29:00 - [213]
 

Edited by: Mendolus on 01/09/2011 19:40:10
Originally by: Skex Relbore
...


I cancelled my four accounts in July of 2010 in part because of my disillusionment with the six months of what I felt were game breaking lag, noting that I had personally lost my first carrier to it so I was not merely thumping a book from a pulpit but down in the trenches to see it for myself, and the complete failure of the Dominion expansion to at least marginally improve upon 0.0 space.

In the eight months that I was gone, CCP mostly cleaned up the lag, but in the meantime, supercaps and botting became nearly synonymous with larger coalitions, the former being a clear fact one can see on battle reports, the latter being more of an umbrella term for what may or may not have escalated in the recent past, but was certainly present before then to some degree.

I could have played for those eight months Skex, could have just toughed it out, had what fun I could make of it, entertained myself in non-capital warfare or avoided blob warfare entirely, and just made the best of it.

Instead I tried to take a stand.

Well, do you think CCP listened to me and others like me, or is 0.0 still pretty much the same in principle, sans lag?

(EDIT) Evidently they were at least aware of it, we can say at the least, given that they have recently admitted to messing up with Dominion, but was this due to me and others like me in and of itself, or due solely to the fact that it was pretty apparent that Dominion was not going to work as intended from the moment it got out of the gate? We will never know, neither will you ever know whether your protest and those who protest with you will ever impact any future design changes or improvements on the Incarna content.

Our personal crusades against the powers that be, are just that, personal, in the end the only thing that would ever force a development company to unequivocally and completely swear off the very notion of non-vanity items is if they were already putting the vacancy sign on the front door, because there are no guarantees in any industry, you are paying for a service here, not a warranty nor are you signing a legal contract that binds CCP to your every desire or demand.

No one here wants lag, or performance issues, or lack of content, especially lack of spaceship content, but CCP has been promising they would release some kind of WiS content for half a decade, just because they reached too far and bit off more than they can chew (they have been doing this since I know of when I started in '08 beginning with Empyrean Age) does not mean there is now some new crusade we can wage to right the wrong.

CCP has a habit of overextending themselves, maybe more so in the recent past than before, but that's just the way it is. We can either accept that, or move on. I choose to just accept it, and make a personal promise to myself, that so long as non-vanity does not actually exist in the game, per Cipher's reminder that it would come directly out of thin air with theoretically, or in some cases, no actual paying subscriber interaction, I will remain and enjoy myself.

What else is there to do, camp these forums for the year or two it would take for us to find out whether CCP really does intend to introduce non-vanity items?

Frankly, I have better things to do, and to be honest, lately I have been feeling like I should be getting to them instead.

Mendolus
Aurelius Federation
Posted - 2011.09.01 19:32:00 - [214]
 

Originally by: Sullen Skoung
...


I can run two clients just fine, thanks though. Very Happy

Elyssa MacLeod
Posted - 2011.09.01 19:37:00 - [215]
 

Edited by: Elyssa MacLeod on 01/09/2011 19:37:52
Originally by: Mendolus


Frankly, I have better things to do, and to be honest, lately I have been feeling like I should be getting to them instead.


Except you dont seem to as youre here, every day, all day like the rest of us, doing the same thing the rest of us are, just in support of the MTs isntead of against them. Youre the same as we are, youre just against US, not CCP.

Dunno if youre noticing this or not but youre doing the "do as I say not as I do" thing

Mendolus
Aurelius Federation
Posted - 2011.09.01 19:39:00 - [216]
 

Originally by: Elyssa MacLeod
just against US, not CCP.


Originally by: Mendolus

[...] so long as non-vanity does not actually exist in the game
[...] I will remain and enjoy myself.


What was that?

Sullen Skoung
Posted - 2011.09.01 19:43:00 - [217]
 

Originally by: Elyssa MacLeod


Dunno if youre noticing this or not but youre doing the "do as I say not as I do" thing


that.

and if you arent against us why are you arguing SO HARD day after day after page after page for everyone to shut up and let it go lol

ah I think I get it, you just need to argue. You chose the right place for that lol

Mendolus
Aurelius Federation
Posted - 2011.09.01 19:53:00 - [218]
 

Originally by: Sullen Skoung
Originally by: Elyssa MacLeod


Dunno if youre noticing this or not but youre doing the "do as I say not as I do" thing


that.

and if you arent against us why are you arguing SO HARD day after day after page after page for everyone to shut up and let it go lol

ah I think I get it, you just need to argue. You chose the right place for that lol


Can I ask you, genuinely, to actually try to bring something of substance to the discussion? I am serious, can we get some sort of actual agreement that you will concede to at least some margin of anything I say whatsoever, and I will do the same.

Please, just find a few points that I have made that you can easily agree with, and I will do the same. If you are feeling bold, make a few concessions to some of what I am saying at least being partially true to some degree.

I am just curious whether you have the capacity to actually make any kind of reasonable compromises in a discussion.

If you cannot, then my only assumption will be that you disagree with one hundred percent of anything I say, regardless of what it is, and with only the concern that I myself am saying it, of even the most mundane and factual premises I make, such as, EVE is an MMO.

Sullen Skoung
Posted - 2011.09.01 19:54:00 - [219]
 

Originally by: Mendolus
Originally by: Sullen Skoung
Originally by: Elyssa MacLeod


Dunno if youre noticing this or not but youre doing the "do as I say not as I do" thing


that.

and if you arent against us why are you arguing SO HARD day after day after page after page for everyone to shut up and let it go lol

ah I think I get it, you just need to argue. You chose the right place for that lol


Can I ask you, genuinely, to actually try to bring something of substance to the discussion? I am serious, can we get some sort of actual agreement that you will concede to at least some margin of anything I say whatsoever, and I will do the same.

Please, just find a few points that I have made that you can easily agree with, and I will do the same. If you are feeling bold, make a few concessions to some of what I am saying at least being partially true to some degree.

I am just curious whether you have the capacity to actually make any kind of reasonable compromises in a discussion.

If you cannot, then my only assumption will be that you disagree with one hundred percent of anything I say, regardless of what it is, and with only the concern that I myself am saying it, of even the most mundane and factual premises I make, such as, EVE is an MMO.


thank you for proving my point. I appreciate it

Skex Relbore
Gallente
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
Posted - 2011.09.01 19:56:00 - [220]
 

Originally by: Mendolus
...



Hmm you don't run CQ because you multi-client interestingly enough this is one of the reasons I gave that people don't multi-client this is your argument?

I never claimed to have any kind of statistic or special knowledge in fact I quite specifically stated that I don't and that my information is limited to anecdotal evidence of my personal interactions with people playing the game.

CCP has this information and I'd be interested to see it but I'm not holding my breath since I suspect it won't reflect favorably on the CQ.

As far as your sticking to your irrelevant arguments stop putting words in my mouth I'm not your strawman.

Point where I've said the client is destroying anyone's hardware? I don't know if it is or not.

I know there is a lot of ignorance on both sides of that debate both from the people who think CQ is destroying their hardware and those claiming it isn't.

Poorly written software can indeed push computer components past their performance capabilities and damage hardware anyone who says otherwise is just parroting nonsense.

Electromigration alone will cause problems with components that are consistently pushed to their thermal limits. Pushing a component to it's limit will shorten that components life. Is that happening here? I don't know it's unlikely that problems of the magnitude people are claiming would have manifested unless the part was already fairly degraded to begin with.

There are reasons that we call stress testing stress testing after all. It's like sticking your car on a dyno sure it will probably be ok but it's possible that pushing your motor to it's limits is going to cause a catastrophic failure.

Most electronic components have imperfections in their manufacture that lead to failure under sufficient stress it's why warranties exist in the first frigging place.

As to performance my experience has not matched your own. I've found the CQ to be ok when run in single client mode but there is a performance degradation, not enough to cause a problem when engaged in PVE but significant when engaging in PVP.

As such I leave the CQ off. Different people will obviously have different experiences depending on what they are doing, just like the folks who don't understand that it's a damned site harder to interact with the ship you are in when you have to look through 100 ships in your hanger compared compared to 3-4, or those who don't understand why I'm actually more ****ed about the 50 fit limit to saved fittings in the fitting management tool and the removal of it's ability to fit rigs than I am about the NEX.

In fact the real thing that set me off about the Fearless document was the fact that even though they'd been ignoring the complaints about that change they not only were aware of the issue but were considering charging us to get that functionality back.

Of course no one from CCP has yet to address that issue and I long since passed 50 saved fits even after having to start from scratch (there was no way I could figure out which of the 180 fits I had previous to the nerf were which)

And yeah I understand that eventually CCP will probably get the performance issues straightened out probably even to the point where multi-boxing is possible again but none of this changes the basic fact that I don't know anyone who leaves the station environment enabled.

Including by your own admission, yourself.

Meryl SinGarda
Caldari
Belligerent Underpayed Tactical Team
Posted - 2011.09.01 19:56:00 - [221]
 

I think I posted in this thread a couple of months ago when it was originally posted, so I'll do it again: small minded and narrow-vision plagued, small handful of players does not equal everyone. Please fix your topic title.

Sullen Skoung
Posted - 2011.09.01 20:00:00 - [222]
 

Originally by: Meryl SinGarda
I think I posted in this thread a couple of months ago when it was originally posted, so I'll do it again: small minded and narrow-vision plagued, small handful of players does not equal everyone. Please fix your topic title.


according to mendolus, if you dont have something constructive gtfo the thread

Mendolus
Aurelius Federation
Posted - 2011.09.01 20:02:00 - [223]
 

Edited by: Mendolus on 01/09/2011 20:05:42
Originally by: Sullen Skoung
Originally by: Meryl SinGarda
I think I posted in this thread a couple of months ago when it was originally posted, so I'll do it again: small minded and narrow-vision plagued, small handful of players does not equal everyone. Please fix your topic title.


according to mendolus, if you dont have something constructive gtfo the thread


From what I have seen Meryl makes excellent posts in this and other threads, whether I may or may agree with them from one post to the next.



Originally by: Sullen Skoung
thank you for proving my point. I appreciate it


I see, so you ARE the troll here, interesting. Very Happy

Sullen Skoung
Posted - 2011.09.01 20:05:00 - [224]
 

Originally by: Mendolus

I may be farther on the other side of the defense in this whole Incarna debacle,


as I said...
youre on the other side of the argument, even though you tried to pretend you werent by qualifying that if non vanity come in youll leave.

I think if they come in youll stay to rail against those leaving and come up with some kind of really funny nonsense.

keep it up man youre hilarious

Meryl SinGarda
Caldari
Belligerent Underpayed Tactical Team
Posted - 2011.09.01 20:06:00 - [225]
 

Originally by: Sullen Skoung
Originally by: Meryl SinGarda
I think I posted in this thread a couple of months ago when it was originally posted, so I'll do it again: small minded and narrow-vision plagued, small handful of players does not equal everyone. Please fix your topic title.


according to mendolus, if you dont have something constructive gtfo the thread


Just because I support CCP and the growth of EVE does not mean I have nothing constructive to say. But I've posted in every rage thread I've seen so far. Sometimes I troll, sometimes I present my points. It just really annoys me when I see a thread so blatantly misrepresenting itself.

Mendolus
Aurelius Federation
Posted - 2011.09.01 20:09:00 - [226]
 

Edited by: Mendolus on 01/09/2011 20:13:03
Originally by: Sullen Skoung
Originally by: Mendolus

I may be farther on the other side of the defense in this whole Incarna debacle,


as I said...
youre on the other side of the argument, even though you tried to pretend you werent by qualifying that if non vanity come in youll leave.

I think if they come in youll stay to rail against those leaving and come up with some kind of really funny nonsense.

keep it up man youre hilarious


So I am in defense of non-vanity, because I will unsubscribe if it is ever introduced?
Keep the drug lab going bro, it must be really high quality stuff.


Like Meryl said, I too am in defense of the game improving and getting better, that means these mindless rage threads where people claim to know or have explicit knowledge that the entire subscriber base is up in arms over something, need to go.

There is no possibility that threads like this are conducive to progress, it is like running into a crowded theater and yelling "FIRE!" and then acting shocked when people rush for the door and trample one another afoot rather than calmly discuss the most rational exit strategy.

Sullen Skoung
Posted - 2011.09.01 20:19:00 - [227]
 

lol I was just trolling mendolus I wasnt serious

Mendolus
Aurelius Federation
Posted - 2011.09.01 20:27:00 - [228]
 

Originally by: Sullen Skoung
lol I was just trolling mendolus I wasnt serious


Alright, I'll give you that. In fact, this one liner makes me happy, thanks!

I think we'll be alright from now on, I can and have been known to do some trolling myself from time to time, but to be honest I really do come here to have some good discussions if possible, whether I end up being right or wrong at the end of them.

You are right that it may very well be that we will see non-vanity in the longrun and there is a possibility we could prevent it with repeated and vocal complaints in opposition to it.

But I am of the mind that requires more time and energy that I am willing to put in, so I simply continue to repeat the only thing I have at my disposal that I feel is legitimate leverage, if they wanna sell gold ammo (at some point in the future), I will find another MMO to entertain myself with, pure and simple.

If I am part of a vocal minority and they have already written my sentiments off and accounted for the monetary losses from subscriptions of people like myself, so be it, that's life unfortunately, I don't like it, you don't like it, but we will never win every battle, and I have already put in my time in the past raging against game developers making changes to games I play that I did not agree with. It never got me anywhere before but upset and stressed out,

Razz

Sullen Skoung
Posted - 2011.09.01 20:33:00 - [229]
 

Originally by: Mendolus
Originally by: Sullen Skoung
lol I was just trolling mendolus I wasnt serious


Alright, I'll give you that. In fact, this one liner makes me happy, thanks!

I think we'll be alright from now on, I can and have been known to do some trolling myself from time to time, but to be honest I really do come here to have some good discussions if possible, whether I end up being right or wrong at the end of them.

You are right that it may very well be that we will see non-vanity in the longrun and there is a possibility we could prevent it with repeated and vocal complaints in opposition to it.

But I am of the mind that requires more time and energy that I am willing to put in, so I simply continue to repeat the only thing I have at my disposal that I feel is legitimate leverage, if they wanna sell gold ammo (at some point in the future), I will find another MMO to entertain myself with, pure and simple.

If I am part of a vocal minority and they have already written my sentiments off and accounted for the monetary losses from subscriptions of people like myself, so be it, that's life unfortunately, I don't like it, you don't like it, but we will never win every battle, and I have already put in my time in the past raging against game developers making changes to games I play that I did not agree with. It never got me anywhere before but upset and stressed out,

Razz


[troll]
dammit >.<
I cant
holy crap Mendolus you CAN be reasonable
Shocked

Damn you for being reasonable -.-
My lack of making sense here is due to being on two Lortab 500s due to a broken elbow and destabilized shoulder

Mendolus
Aurelius Federation
Posted - 2011.09.01 20:53:00 - [230]
 

Edited by: Mendolus on 01/09/2011 20:53:40
Originally by: Sullen Skoung

[troll]
dammit >.<
I cant
holy crap Mendolus you CAN be reasonable
Shocked

Damn you for being reasonable -.-
My lack of making sense here is due to being on two Lortab 500s due to a broken elbow and destabilized shoulder



I don't disagree with you that there is a possibility the vocal minority (whether there may be a silent majority here, we will never know, that is why they are silent, except for their subscriptions themselves) may institute a change in future policy concerning non-vanity, I am just uncertain whether it is healthy for the game in the long run to begin with, insofar as... if the subscriber base drops naturally on its own or levels out, and CCP cannot keep up with the overhead required to maintain it while also releasing ... quality (see what I did there?) expansions every six months, we would either have to accept a base increase in subs, some sort of limited F2P model, or non-vanity cash shops, cuz the money has to come from somewhere, ya know?

Every expansion CCP releases, requires more money in overhead costs over the long term, let alone the cost to develop the content (which could already be bundled in their subscription rate though), and if the subscriber base is not increasing a sufficient rate to keep up with that trend, then CCP will incur a net loss, which is of course, bad for all involved, because that means they'll have to make cutbacks in the development and support of the game itself, as opposed to raising subscription costs, or introducing other programs like non-vanity or F2P advertising models.






Also, that sounds pretty painful Sullen, Embarassed

Best regards to you while you recover! And again, OUCH Shocked !

o7

Sullen Skoung
Posted - 2011.09.01 21:05:00 - [231]
 

Not so painful as the Lortab sinks in tho :D

Myxx
Atropos Group
Posted - 2011.09.05 03:22:00 - [232]
 

I think the average of 20k people online recently says it louder than anything anyone else can say: CCP has ****ed up pretty soundly.

Trolls Troll
Posted - 2011.09.05 03:24:00 - [233]
 

Originally by: Myxx
I think the average of 20k people online recently says it louder than anything anyone else can say: CCP has ****ed up pretty soundly.


Inb4 herpderpers

"its summer"
"its winter"
"its hols"
"its a recession"
"graphs lie"
"nex is win, pays for lost subs"


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