open All Channels
seplocked EVE General Discussion
blankseplocked A Reminder to CCP: We do not want microtransactions period.
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 7 8

Author Topic

Gorki Andropov
Kerensky Initiatives
Posted - 2011.08.28 12:43:00 - [91]
 

Don't presume to speak for me. Your ******ed ****-monkey demands are pure nonsense.

Ildryn
Posted - 2011.08.28 14:13:00 - [92]
 

Originally by: Sullen Skoung
Edited by: Sullen Skoung on 26/08/2011 15:06:01
Originally by: Written Word
Lets see, despite being proven all across the industry that it makes a lot of money and has no tangible effect on player retention outside of forum screamers (you in this case).. they should stop it doing it right?

You aren't going to quit. You'll whine but you'll go back to playing.


an when the Greed is Good thing was leaked noone protested in game right? That was just rumors?


Less than 5% of the active accounts were protesting.
So it was a fail. The idea of a protest was a fail.

BehindDOORNEXWhore
Posted - 2011.08.28 14:26:00 - [93]
 

Originally by: Ildryn

Less than 5% of the active accounts were protesting.
So it was a fail. The idea of a protest was a fail.



But fail enough for CCP to shat it pants and call an emergency CSM meeting??

T'amber Anomandari Demaleon
Posted - 2011.08.28 15:55:00 - [94]
 

lol

Ildryn
Posted - 2011.08.28 18:02:00 - [95]
 

Originally by: BehindDOORNEX*****
Originally by: Ildryn

Less than 5% of the active accounts were protesting.
So it was a fail. The idea of a protest was a fail.



But fail enough for CCP to shat it pants and call an emergency CSM meeting??


If was a fail no matter how you look at it alt noob.
They didn't **** themselves. They wanted to talk to the csm for damage control purposes.
A few statements were taken way out of context.
You do realize there are people from many more countries than yours that play.
You notice i am also posting with my main. Not a trolling alt. :)

BehindDOORNEXWhore
Posted - 2011.08.28 20:12:00 - [96]
 

Originally by: Ildryn
Originally by: BehindDOORNEX*****
Originally by: Ildryn

Less than 5% of the active accounts were protesting.
So it was a fail. The idea of a protest was a fail.



But fail enough for CCP to shat it pants and call an emergency CSM meeting??


If was a fail no matter how you look at it alt noob.
They didn't **** themselves. They wanted to talk to the csm for damage control purposes.
A few statements were taken way out of context.
You do realize there are people from many more countries than yours that play.
You notice i am also posting with my Fanbois main. and most likely a dev alt. :)

FYPFY.
I've hi-lighted your sentimental bit :)


Ildryn
Posted - 2011.08.29 00:53:00 - [97]
 

Originally by: BehindDOORNEX*****

You notice i am also posting with my Fanbois main. and most likely a dev alt. :)

FYPFY.
I've hi-lighted your sentimental bit :)



Kinda funny. I live in Iowa. No devs in Iowa.
Sorry you fail to see logic.
Alt characters = Trolls
Pretty poor one at that.

Skex Relbore
Gallente
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
Posted - 2011.08.29 18:28:00 - [98]
 

Originally by: Ildryn
Originally by: BehindDOORNEX*****
Originally by: Ildryn

Less than 5% of the active accounts were protesting.
So it was a fail. The idea of a protest was a fail.



But fail enough for CCP to shat it pants and call an emergency CSM meeting??


If was a fail no matter how you look at it alt noob.
They didn't **** themselves. They wanted to talk to the csm for damage control purposes.
A few statements were taken way out of context.
You do realize there are people from many more countries than yours that play.
You notice i am also posting with my main. Not a trolling alt. :)



You kind of contradicted yourself there.

If damage wasn't being done they wouldn't have needed damage control.


Mendolus
Aurelius Federation
Posted - 2011.08.29 18:30:00 - [99]
 

Originally by: Skex Relbore

You kind of contradicted yourself there.

If damage wasn't being done they wouldn't have needed damage control.




If only the world were this simple.

Ranger 1
Amarr
Ranger Corp
Posted - 2011.08.29 21:01:00 - [100]
 

Originally by: Skex Relbore
Originally by: Ildryn
Originally by: BehindDOORNEX*****
Originally by: Ildryn

Less than 5% of the active accounts were protesting.
So it was a fail. The idea of a protest was a fail.



But fail enough for CCP to shat it pants and call an emergency CSM meeting??


If was a fail no matter how you look at it alt noob.
They didn't **** themselves. They wanted to talk to the csm for damage control purposes.
A few statements were taken way out of context.
You do realize there are people from many more countries than yours that play.
You notice i am also posting with my main. Not a trolling alt. :)



You kind of contradicted yourself there.

If damage wasn't being done they wouldn't have needed damage control.




They needed damage control because they didn't communicate the plan well, not because the plan was bad to begin with.

The better communication resulted in much of the wild speculation being shown to be just that. As a result, things calmed down significantly.

The plan did not change as a result of the CSM summit, only the level of transparency.

Now the only thing still getting a rise out of people are the trolls playing "what if" games, or those making unsubstanciated claims that all the protesters were doing so because they objected to MT being brought in at all (despite thousands of posts from said protesters stating otherwise).

das licht
Gallente
Echtzeit AG
Posted - 2011.08.29 21:05:00 - [101]
 

I don't know!

Cipher Jones
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.08.29 21:50:00 - [102]
 

Originally by: Mendolus
Originally by: Skex Relbore

You kind of contradicted yourself there.

If damage wasn't being done they wouldn't have needed damage control.




If only the world were this simple.


One of my friends went to lawschool. I was like "Watch, Goldman Sachs will get busted hard." That was back a few years ago, it took till last month for the indictments and plea bargains to roll in.

So when I called him up on the phone for the obligatory "told you so", he tried to rationalize. I simply replied...

"You don't take a plea bargain if you're not guilty."

You can ponder the complexity all you want. The CSM was a 'plea bargin' in the first place.

Poetic Stanziel
Gallente
Macbeth Transport and Freight LLC
Posted - 2011.08.29 22:37:00 - [103]
 

Dear CCP,

I would pay 3500 Aurum to increase my skill queue from 24 hours to 1 week. I would pay another 3500 Aurum to increase my skill queue from 1 week to 2 weeks. No more increases beyond that are necessary.

Thank you.

Skex Relbore
Gallente
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
Posted - 2011.08.30 14:03:00 - [104]
 

Originally by: Cipher Jones


"You don't take a plea bargain if you're not guilty."
.


While I think we're on the same side of this debate the statement above is not true.

Innocent people take plea bargains all the time.

Plea bargains are most often offered when the prosecution is less than certain they can make their case.

The accused often take them because while the odds of conviction may be low the consequences are huge(up to and including death).

I'm not claiming that this is the case in Goldman Sach's case but your statement is one of those bits of conventional wisdom people believe that simply isn't true.

Pablo Amadeus Zekairra
Caldari
State War Academy
Posted - 2011.08.30 14:15:00 - [105]
 

I cant believe this OP seems to think that his mediocre troll is going to speak for me.

#1-Nex is a good idea and adds a bit of life to your already static one.
(turn off station environment if you dont like it.)

#2-no one is forcing you either Nex or EvE is Real.
( so if you dont like it click out.)

#3-1000-who the hell said you can speak for an entire community when the only crap here is on your upper lip...

now you know why it smells like sh*t every time you speak so please go wipe, rinse and repeat.

plz stop falsely representing the EvE community.


Ciar Meara
Amarr
Virtus Vindice
Posted - 2011.08.30 14:16:00 - [106]
 

Originally by: Tian Jade
I purchased a coat. Twisted Evil

Cry all you want, a Plex is not that much money for me and I can support CCP in developing the game I love.

You may flame now. ugh


Your not interesting, neither is the fact that you bought a coat.

The coat doesn't bring me better gameplay, can't be blown up and I can't see it.

Nobody cares about your coat.

Thornat
Posted - 2011.08.30 14:18:00 - [107]
 

Originally by: Skex Relbore
Originally by: Cipher Jones


"You don't take a plea bargain if you're not guilty."
.


While I think we're on the same side of this debate the statement above is not true.

Innocent people take plea bargains all the time.

Plea bargains are most often offered when the prosecution is less than certain they can make their case.

The accused often take them because while the odds of conviction may be low the consequences are huge(up to and including death).

I'm not claiming that this is the case in Goldman Sach's case but your statement is one of those bits of conventional wisdom people believe that simply isn't true.


There is some truth to that but actually in law most plea bargains are the result of neither party having a firm case, yet both parties wanting to come out of it winners. You get nailed for a DUI, but the officer skipped a few steps in the process. The case can go either way so a plea bargain is offered, maybe lower it to a wreckless driving. To the offender its a get out of jail free card, to the processing attorny its a conviction.

But lets be frank now. CCP is not accussed of a crime, Eve Online is not a courtroom and the players are not the judge and jury.

Basically what happened was that CCP did something that "enough" of the community responded to, both verbaly on the forums, via in game protests and through the cancellation of accounts to get their attention. The CSM's themselves admitted on Eve radio that an emergency session was unthinkable and only in a serious situation would such a thing take place.

Also its worth mentioning that a vocal minority is always far more powerful and has far more clout than a quiet majority. In essence if you don't speak out, you don't count. CCP reacted because they know that a small vocal minority can take a successful game and attract enough bad press to hurt their bottom line.

So ya maybe it was only 5% of the players that protested, but thats more than sufficient to create enough bad press and momentum to have disasterous effects on the game and the bottom line of CCP. They reckognized that fact and acted to try to deal with the problem head on.

Cipher Jones
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.08.30 14:32:00 - [108]
 

Originally by: Ciar Meara
Originally by: Tian Jade
I purchased a coat. Twisted Evil

Cry all you want, a Plex is not that much money for me and I can support CCP in developing the game I love.

You may flame now. ugh


Your not interesting, neither is the fact that you bought a coat.

The coat doesn't bring me better gameplay, can't be blown up and I can't see it.

Nobody cares about your coat.


It will eventually bring you better gameplay, and takes nothing from you gameplay now. That shortsightedness is quite common these days.

Of course it can be argued that WOD and Dust will fail and that will ruin EvE, but that's highly unlikely.

Weather anybody but the buyer of a NEX item cares about it is highly irrelevant. They care enough to buy it.

Myxx
Atropos Group
Posted - 2011.08.30 14:33:00 - [109]
 

Originally by: Thornat
Originally by: Skex Relbore
Originally by: Cipher Jones


"You don't take a plea bargain if you're not guilty."
.


While I think we're on the same side of this debate the statement above is not true.

Innocent people take plea bargains all the time.

Plea bargains are most often offered when the prosecution is less than certain they can make their case.

The accused often take them because while the odds of conviction may be low the consequences are huge(up to and including death).

I'm not claiming that this is the case in Goldman Sach's case but your statement is one of those bits of conventional wisdom people believe that simply isn't true.


There is some truth to that but actually in law most plea bargains are the result of neither party having a firm case, yet both parties wanting to come out of it winners. You get nailed for a DUI, but the officer skipped a few steps in the process. The case can go either way so a plea bargain is offered, maybe lower it to a wreckless driving. To the offender its a get out of jail free card, to the processing attorny its a conviction.

But lets be frank now. CCP is not accussed of a crime, Eve Online is not a courtroom and the players are not the judge and jury.

Basically what happened was that CCP did something that "enough" of the community responded to, both verbaly on the forums, via in game protests and through the cancellation of accounts to get their attention. The CSM's themselves admitted on Eve radio that an emergency session was unthinkable and only in a serious situation would such a thing take place.

Also its worth mentioning that a vocal minority is always far more powerful and has far more clout than a quiet majority. In essence if you don't speak out, you don't count. CCP reacted because they know that a small vocal minority can take a successful game and attract enough bad press to hurt their bottom line.

So ya maybe it was only 5% of the players that protested, but thats more than sufficient to create enough bad press and momentum to have disasterous effects on the game and the bottom line of CCP. They reckognized that fact and acted to try to deal with the problem head on.



If they loose even 5 percent of the playerbase, it can be bad enough to spiral out of control and actually hurt EVE. That five percent can quickly turn into ten percent, that ten percent can turn into twenty... so on and so fourth.



And I'm sure that theres more than five percent that are unhappy about microtransactions.

Cipher Jones
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.08.30 14:37:00 - [110]
 

Quote:
If they loose even 5 percent of the playerbase, it can be bad enough to spiral out of control and actually hurt EVE. That five percent can quickly turn into ten percent, that ten percent can turn into twenty... so on and so fourth.



And I'm sure that theres more than five percent that are unhappy about microtransactions.
--


So if I have five dollars in my wallet I can buy a 15 dollar item once it spirals out of control.

I am sure a lot more than 50% of the players are unhappy about mt as almost 100% of people oppose change. The question is will enough people stay too keep the franchise running and healthy, and right now the answer is yes.

Ranger 1
Amarr
Ranger Corp
Posted - 2011.08.30 14:38:00 - [111]
 

Originally by: Cipher Jones
Originally by: Ciar Meara
Originally by: Tian Jade
I purchased a coat. Twisted Evil

Cry all you want, a Plex is not that much money for me and I can support CCP in developing the game I love.

You may flame now. ugh


Your not interesting, neither is the fact that you bought a coat.

The coat doesn't bring me better gameplay, can't be blown up and I can't see it.

Nobody cares about your coat.


It will eventually bring you better gameplay, and takes nothing from you gameplay now. That shortsightedness is quite common these days.

Of course it can be argued that WOD and Dust will fail and that will ruin EvE, but that's highly unlikely.

Weather anybody but the buyer of a NEX item cares about it is highly irrelevant. They care enough to buy it.


On this point we are in total agreement.

Skex Relbore
Gallente
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
Posted - 2011.08.30 14:43:00 - [112]
 

Originally by: Ranger 1

They needed damage control because they didn't communicate the plan well, not because the plan was bad to begin with.

The better communication resulted in much of the wild speculation being shown to be just that. As a result, things calmed down significantly.

The plan did not change as a result of the CSM summit, only the level of transparency.

Now the only thing still getting a rise out of people are the trolls playing "what if" games, or those making unsubstanciated claims that all the protesters were doing so because they objected to MT being brought in at all (despite thousands of posts from said protesters stating otherwise).


They needed damage control because of the leaked documentation. First we had the PR debacle of the monetization debate. Which was then followed with the leaking of the Fearless Magazine (anyone who believes that was just "internal discussion" send me isk and I'll send you back double what you sent me) which despite all the protestation about it just being internal discussion read more like a propaganda campaign.

Everyone acts like the only thing in it was the pro-con between Soundwave and Turbefield, which is bull**** they had multiple articles about how to monetize their product via micro-transactions and it wasn't written in a should we do this rather it was in a this is how we do it mode. Remember the only voice of dissent in this "debate" was half of one article out of several.

Of course they aren't going to admit that they really want to sell in game advantage publicly they by soundwaves own admission know they'd be crucified by the playerbase.

Anyone who believes this bull**** about how objection to MT is a minority opinion need to let that percolate for a minute. CCP doesn't believe that to be a minority opinion or else they would have done as Hilmar said and stayed the course.

Now it is entirely true that much of what people are bringing up is based on conjecture but it's conjecture based on some pretty sound reasoning and evidence.

If you think CCP claim that they have no intention of selling "gold ammo" has any weight what so ever need to go back and read the debates from 2010 when they claimed they had no plans for implementing Micro-transactions. Anyone who's ever worked for a corporation should understand that there is no way they weren't planning the Nex by that point they had to have been or they'd never have been able to launch it for Incarna.

Credibility is an interesting thing. Hard to gain easy to lose and next to impossible to regain once lost.


Sullen Skoung
Posted - 2011.08.30 15:07:00 - [113]
 

Edited by: Sullen Skoung on 30/08/2011 15:10:23
the MT store isnt ONLY what Im referring to in my sig. Its the "sweeping changes" of removing high sec as a viable place to make money as well. 80% of the player base chooses to be in high sec but because theyre not playing the game how THEY want, theyd rather take their toys an go home, and destroy the area a vast majority of the players would rather be in that the broken sov mechanics in 0.0.
BUT rather than FIXING 0.0, they want to vastly devalue high sec.

Because they know whats best for the game amirite?

Originally by: Cipher Jones
The CSM was a 'plea bargin' in the first place.


The CSM was a knee jerk reaction to a scandal they didnt know how to control (T20).
Their original, stupid, impossible, reason for being formed was to go to Iceland to watchdog CCP to keep them from cheating again
Laughing

Myxx
Atropos Group
Posted - 2011.08.30 15:58:00 - [114]
 

Originally by: Cipher Jones
Quote:
If they loose even 5 percent of the playerbase, it can be bad enough to spiral out of control and actually hurt EVE. That five percent can quickly turn into ten percent, that ten percent can turn into twenty... so on and so fourth.



And I'm sure that theres more than five percent that are unhappy about microtransactions.
--


So if I have five dollars in my wallet I can buy a 15 dollar item once it spirals out of control.



This is a non-argument because that isn't how social interaction works. This game is built on a social network, word of mouth style of community. If people leave, more people will be inclined to leave when they see their friends stop logging in. That is how it can quickly turn into very bad news.

Skex Relbore
Gallente
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
Posted - 2011.08.30 16:09:00 - [115]
 

Originally by: Cipher Jones
Quote:
If they loose even 5 percent of the playerbase, it can be bad enough to spiral out of control and actually hurt EVE. That five percent can quickly turn into ten percent, that ten percent can turn into twenty... so on and so fourth.



And I'm sure that theres more than five percent that are unhappy about microtransactions.
--


So if I have five dollars in my wallet I can buy a 15 dollar item once it spirals out of control.

I am sure a lot more than 50% of the players are unhappy about mt as almost 100% of people oppose change. The question is will enough people stay too keep the franchise running and healthy, and right now the answer is yes.


Actually I think the answer was no; which is why we had the emergency summit.

I think CCP wanted to test the waters and see if they could ease MT in. This is why we had the "stay the course" email say that they should only pay attention to "what they do".

They tested those waters and found out they were full of ****ed off piranhas, hopefully that will be enough of a lessen to hold the bean counters off for another year.

The biggest problem they have now is that they blew away their credibility in the process so no one really believes them when they say "we have no plans for any non-vanity items for Aurum".

The thing is yeah we're talking about things they haven't done yet. But you have to object before they do it if we wait until after they actually do P2W it will be too late to influence the situation.

Micro-transactions made it in because after the commitment in May 2010 that there were no plans for MT people took them at their word and didn't pay attention to the issue.

Hell CSM in May 2011 just kind of ho hummed the NEX store when it was announced to them when they should have been raising holy hell going "WTF?!?! you guys said you weren't planning anything like this just a year ago, Do you have any idea the kind of **** storm this is going to stir up?"

Hilmar needs a "no man" around to counter all the "yes man" sentiment someone to say "are you out of your ****ing mind? that's the dumbest idea I've ever heard" when some bonehead comes up with something like the Nex store.



Sullen Skoung
Posted - 2011.08.30 16:14:00 - [116]
 

Originally by: Skex Relbore


Hell CSM in May 2011 just kind of ho hummed the NEX store when it was announced to them when they should have been raising holy hell going "WTF?!?! you guys said you weren't planning anything like this just a year ago, Do you have any idea the kind of **** storm this is going to stir up?"



When they do that, they get NDAed and told that if they talk about it theyll get sued.

Skex Relbore
Gallente
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
Posted - 2011.08.30 16:29:00 - [117]
 

Originally by: Sullen Skoung
Originally by: Skex Relbore


Hell CSM in May 2011 just kind of ho hummed the NEX store when it was announced to them when they should have been raising holy hell going "WTF?!?! you guys said you weren't planning anything like this just a year ago, Do you have any idea the kind of **** storm this is going to stir up?"



When they do that, they get NDAed and told that if they talk about it theyll get sued.


The NDA only prevents them from reporting information to the public before it's been cleared it does not prevent them from telling CCP that something is a bad idea.

Sullen Skoung
Posted - 2011.08.30 16:38:00 - [118]
 

Edited by: Sullen Skoung on 30/08/2011 16:39:39
Originally by: Skex Relbore
Originally by: Sullen Skoung
Originally by: Skex Relbore


Hell CSM in May 2011 just kind of ho hummed the NEX store when it was announced to them when they should have been raising holy hell going "WTF?!?! you guys said you weren't planning anything like this just a year ago, Do you have any idea the kind of **** storm this is going to stir up?"



When they do that, they get NDAed and told that if they talk about it theyll get sued.


The NDA only prevents them from reporting information to the public before it's been cleared it does not prevent them from telling CCP that something is a bad idea.


lol youre under the impression they didnt (and if you link minutes to me, think of how heavily THESE are being edited and remember how hard it is to hit the delete/backspace button on a keyboard)
better yet youre under the impression of what they say to CCP MATTERS TO CCP
how cute

Bootleg Jack
Potters Field
Posted - 2011.08.30 16:44:00 - [119]
 

I like MT and the CQ, I have 4 accounts, +4 for MT, can't wait for the station door to open.



Ranger 1
Amarr
Ranger Corp
Posted - 2011.08.30 16:48:00 - [120]
 

Quote:
Anyone who believes this bull**** about how objection to MT is a minority opinion need to let that percolate for a minute. CCP doesn't believe that to be a minority opinion or else they would have done as Hilmar said and stayed the course.


Perhaps you could tell us where CCP changed their course.


Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 7 8

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only