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blankseplocked Buff the Minmatar!
 
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Sigras
Gallente
Conglomo
Posted - 2011.08.26 09:46:00 - [1]
 

With all the proposals to nerf minmatar ships, I thought i'd offer some out of the box thinking and ask for one of them to be buffed.

As it stands right now, there is very little reason to use a Muninn (if im wrong, please educate me) because the hurricane outshines it in every way at short range, and the Zealot outshines it in most every way at long range.

My proposal is to:
1. drop the drone bay and a launcher slot for an extra turret slot and 175 extra power grid
2. change the 5% ROF and 5% damage bonuses to a 10% damage bonus.

This does nothing for it's short range capability (in fact it slightly lowers DPS and versatility) but at long range, it is the alpha strike king. It still has less EHP and DPS than the zealot @ 100 km but it does three times as much volley damage.

discuss

Rek Seven
Gallente
Zandathorn Industries
Posted - 2011.08.26 10:25:00 - [2]
 

What assault cruiser is worth buying? You may as well fly a BC or save for a T3.

They all need a damage buff imo...

Duchess Starbuckington
Posted - 2011.08.26 12:46:00 - [3]
 

Edited by: Duchess Starbuckington on 26/08/2011 12:47:46


Muninn is a sniper HAC, a role in which it excels. No changes needed.
Quote:
What assault cruiser is worth buying? You may as well fly a BC

Clueless. The only worthless HACs are the Diemos and the Eagle, for two very different reasons.

Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
Posted - 2011.08.26 13:30:00 - [4]
 

It must take a special kind of thinking to look at the three sniper HACs and decide that the one that needs boosting is the Muninn.

Sigras
Gallente
Conglomo
Posted - 2011.08.26 20:26:00 - [5]
 

can I have the use for the muninn explained to me? Im looking at it, and see that @ 100 km (a snipers usual role now that on grid probes are so OP) it has less EHP and less DPS than a zealot . . . doesnt that make the zealot better in every way that matters?

I know that the muninn has some defenses against tackle, but IMHO if you got your sniper fleet tackled, youre already fail.

Feligast
Minmatar
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.08.26 21:22:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Sigras
doesnt that make the zealot better in every way that matters?



"Alright, we're going up against Alphafleet, which has an explosive hole, so all Zealots switch to explosive ammo.......oh wait"

That about cover the advantage of the Muninn over the Zealot?

Herping yourDerp
Posted - 2011.08.26 22:06:00 - [7]
 

t2 minmitar ships have huge EM tanks and for he most part are faster then other race ships. if anything nerf minmitar.

zljuka
Posted - 2011.08.26 22:17:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Sigras
As it stands right now, there is very little reason to use a Muninn (if im wrong, please educate me) because the hurricane outshines it in every way at short range, and the Zealot outshines it in most every way at long range.


Black Legion with their alpha-strike muninns would argue with you. Look at their KB first.

Duchess Starbuckington
Posted - 2011.08.26 23:10:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Sigras
can I have the use for the muninn explained to me? Im looking at it, and see that @ 100 km (a snipers usual role now that on grid probes are so OP) it has less EHP and less DPS than a zealot . . . doesnt that make the zealot better in every way that matters?



See that number under DPS in EFT? That's volley damage, and that's why people use artillery guns.
Do you honestly know the first thing about PVP? Because it doesn't seem like it.

Mfume Apocal
Minmatar
Origin.
Black Legion.
Posted - 2011.08.27 01:02:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Sigras

As it stands right now, there is very little reason to use a Muninn (if im wrong, please educate me) because the hurricane outshines it in every way at short range, and the Zealot outshines it in most every way at long range.


Alpha, damage type selection, balanced resist profile, stronger practical cap and two utility highs as advantages over the Zealot.

Moderate range advantage over the Hurricane, balanced resist profile, faster, tracking bonus, etc.

Laechyd Eldgorn
Caldari
draketrain
Posted - 2011.08.27 10:59:00 - [11]
 

lol

Jhonen Senraedi
Minmatar
Dopehead Industries
True Reign
Posted - 2011.08.27 11:02:00 - [12]
 

not sure about the Muninn needing a boost...
What is a concern are these cries to nerf the Minnie ships as a whole?why?
Minmatar ships are the hardest in game to fly well..given the vast range of skills needed..ergo..they should be good or better than most other races ships just for the sake of balance..
i.e if something takes longer to do and do well...then it stands to reason it should be better..and yet..we appear to trail in the wake of the Geddon and Abbadon BS fleets..are behind the drake fleets..have crap dreadnoughts etc.
Not asking for a boost but at the very least..Minnie ships should be kept the same..either that..or make all races equally have to cross train to be effective in their ships.

Duchess Starbuckington
Posted - 2011.08.27 13:08:00 - [13]
 

Edited by: Duchess Starbuckington on 27/08/2011 13:11:43
Quote:
Minmatar ships are the hardest in game to fly well..given the vast range of skills needed


This is a myth. Tanking skills are easy to train up and the only ships Minmatar really need missile skills for is the Typhoon and Hound (the former not even having missiles as compulsary.)
Minmatar as a race can function very well with just gunnery and shield skills. Obviously drones as well, but all races need those.

Quote:
i.e if something takes longer to do and do well...then it stands to reason it should be better


Pure idiocy. I suppose you also think that price should equal effectiveness as well?

Edit: oh and for your information, Caldari are actually more skill intensive than Minmatar if you want to make full use of their lineup. Minmatar can get by with the vast majority of their ships with just gunnery and shields or armour - Caldari are neatly split down the middle into guns and missiles with EWAR on the side. If you ignore gunnery or missiles, you lock yourself out of half the race.

If Minmatar ignore missiles, they lock themselves out of... two ships. Wow. In fact not even that - they lock themselves out of one ship and one setup for another.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.08.27 14:17:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Jhonen Senraedi
i.e if something takes longer to do and do well...then it stands to reason it should be better.
Fortunately, EVE is not a game where that logic is employed. Bigger (in whichever way you choose to measure it) is not better. Instead, the longer something takes to do and do well, the more specialised it will be at that one very narrow thing… and it will suck in every other respect.

…and the myth about minny being hard to train is, as explained above, just that: a myth.

Sigras
Gallente
Conglomo
Posted - 2011.08.28 08:51:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Duchess Starbuckington
See that number under DPS in EFT? That's volley damage, and that's why people use artillery guns.
Do you honestly know the first thing about PVP? Because it doesn't seem like it.


Yes, see, had you read my proposal, you would know that I was trying to improve, the one thing that the matari are good at.

Originally by: Feligast
"Alright, we're going up against Alphafleet, which has an explosive hole, so all Zealots switch to explosive ammo.......oh wait"

That about cover the advantage of the Muninn over the Zealot?


You do realize that the muninn has the same problem right?
switching to anything besides Tremor, even domination carbonized lead means a 25% cut in damage, both volley and DPS which, unless they have a >25% hole, negates the bonus you'd get by switching to their weakness.

I understand the value of an alpha strike fleet which is why I was trying to buff that aspect of the ship, but what I dont see is this use for the muninns you all claim to have.

In the dozens of PvP videos ive seen, and in my own experience, ive seen plenty of videos featuring the Zealot, in fact ive seen videos centered around the zealot, but ive seen only a handful of Muninns.

Gemberslaafje
Vivicide
Posted - 2011.08.28 09:26:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Duchess Starbuckington
Edited by: Duchess Starbuckington on 27/08/2011 13:11:43
Quote:
Minmatar ships are the hardest in game to fly well..given the vast range of skills needed


This is a myth. Tanking skills are easy to train up and the only ships Minmatar really need missile skills for is the Typhoon and Hound (the former not even having missiles as compulsary.)


The dread. Don't forget the dread.

Duchess Starbuckington
Posted - 2011.08.28 09:57:00 - [17]
 

Edited by: Duchess Starbuckington on 28/08/2011 10:00:02
Quote:
The dread. Don't forget the dread.


Ok sure, 3 ships - one of which has missiles as optional and one is a capital.

Quote:
Yes, see, had you read my proposal, you would know that I was trying to improve, the one thing that the matari are good at.


So basically, you want to fix what isn't broken.
Yeah you still seem like an idiot to me.

William Cooly
Sol Enterprises
Posted - 2011.08.28 17:24:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Gypsio III
It must take a special kind of thinking to look at the three sniper HACs and decide that the one that needs boosting is the Muninn.


Three? One for each race, plus Caldari practically have two.

PewPewYou
Amarr
Posted - 2011.08.28 22:12:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: William Cooly
Caldari practically have two.


Yep. Both aweful. One you can just warp away before it hits you and one hybrid.


Duchess Starbuckington
Posted - 2011.08.28 22:23:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: William Cooly

Three? One for each race, plus Caldari practically have two.


Oh look, someone else who's utterly clueless about HACs. The Caldari ones are both useless for sniping for two different reasons, and the Gallente don't have a viable sniper. (Diemos being lolterrible and the Ishtar having issues with drone abandonment.)

ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
Posted - 2011.08.28 22:30:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: William Cooly
Originally by: Gypsio III
It must take a special kind of thinking to look at the three sniper HACs and decide that the one that needs boosting is the Muninn.


Three? One for each race, plus Caldari practically have two.


Well... the Gallente don't really have a sniper HAC. Sure you have the Sentry-Ishtar and the Rail-Deimos... but the former has to sit still lest it abandon its [only] weapons... and the latter can't fit the long range weapons without horribly gimping the ship with CPU/Powergrid mods and cannot hit out very far without further gimping the ship.

So yeah... there are only 3 "sniper HACs" (4 if you must include the Cerberus).


As far as the Muninn... it does its job well. It's a mobile, long range, sniper platform designed the fire off a massive volley and GTFO. The drones the Munnin has gives it a degree of flexibility that is trademark of the Minmitar race as a whole (even if it is a T2 ship). I see no need to change it.

Sephiroth CloneIIV
Rim Worlds Republic
Shadow of xXDEATHXx
Posted - 2011.08.29 01:28:00 - [22]
 

I agree with the thought that many minne ships don't need nerfs. The main issue is lackluster gallente and caldari, and fail-guns either race uses.


William Cooly
Sol Enterprises
Posted - 2011.08.29 01:38:00 - [23]
 

Edited by: William Cooly on 29/08/2011 01:38:41
Originally by: ShahFluffers

Well... the Gallente don't really have a sniper HAC.
So yeah... there are only 3 "sniper HACs" (4 if you must include the Cerberus).



Originally by: PewPewYou

Yep. Both aweful. One you can just warp away before it hits you and one hybrid.



Well, I'm not going to argue the technicalities since it's not too important, but I agree that as sniper ships, the Caldari are bad, and the Ishtar isn't good, but imo all three can work.

In any case, I agree, Muninn is lolpwn as is, needs no buffs.


 

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