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Lharanai
Posted - 2011.08.25 15:30:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Lharanai on 25/08/2011 15:32:20
Edited by: Lharanai on 25/08/2011 15:32:08
So I just want to hear your opinion about an idea I had, and if it is absolutely crap or not. And it is about High Sec Wardec mechanics. As we all now the mechanics at the moment favor the aggressor, I have read other suggestions and I want to offer a third way, called "buyout".

I have to clarify that I am strictly speaking about high sec and CONCORD. We all know Concord is corrupt, so give corporations the option to buy out of a wardec via bribing Concord (wardec fee + 50%).

If I don't miss anything (which is highly probable) this would make life for aggressors far more difficult, because they often only wardec allies which can not fight back (because they are mostly miners or industrials). High Sec should be High Sec and not a playground for griefers. And if you have to bribe the security forces, why not.

And now tell me how stupid that idea is

Dasatei
Posted - 2011.08.25 15:53:00 - [2]
 

Why pay when you can reform?

Inistis
V i r u s
Pendulum of Doom
Posted - 2011.08.25 16:39:00 - [3]
 

The "Buy Out" option is already available.

Contact the CEO of your "aggressor" corp and I'm sure they will be happy to accommodate you.

Cordo Draken
ABOS Industrial Enterprises
Posted - 2011.08.25 18:54:00 - [4]
 

OP, how is this lame idea any different than all the other whine BS threads in the past? BTW, High sec is not a Cearbear's playground... No where are you meant to be completely safe.

Originally by: Inistis
The "Buy Out" option is already available.

Contact the CEO of your "aggressor" corp and I'm sure they will be happy to accommodate you.


This is your solution.

Lharanai
Posted - 2011.08.25 19:47:00 - [5]
 

Edited by: Lharanai on 25/08/2011 19:49:36
Sigh, exactly the answers I expected, blah pay the aggressor, blah High Sec is not for Carebears blah blub.

From my understanding EVE is about niches for everyone, so why is High Sec not for carebears, low sec is not, null sec is not, and why has it to be a playground for griefers...give me a good reason and not the usual douche bag stuff (and with douche bag I consider how you see us carebears ).

The only point I consider as valid so far was the reforming

Kilrayn
Posted - 2011.08.25 19:58:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Lharanai
Edited by: Lharanai on 25/08/2011 19:49:36
Sigh, exactly the answers I expected, blah pay the aggressor, blah High Sec is not for Carebears blah blub.

From my understanding EVE is about niches for everyone, so why is High Sec not for carebears, low sec is not, null sec is not, and why has it to be a playground for griefers...give me a good reason and not the usual douche bag stuff (and with douche bag I consider how you see us carebears ).

The only point I consider as valid so far was the reforming


CCP did not design any part of space to be totally safe. This is a misunderstanding some players have. You are safER in empire, there is no part of space that is totally safe, not even stations. The market can wipe out your wallet rather quickly.

Space is cold, CCP keeps it that way.

Lharanai
Posted - 2011.08.25 20:03:00 - [7]
 

Ok here is a misunderstanding, I don't want high sec to be absolutely safe, I am just wondering why the whole wardec system supports the aggressor and griefers and how to change that.

And also if my original idea is crap, explain why, in terms of game mechanics please.

Kilrayn
Posted - 2011.08.25 20:18:00 - [8]
 

I think the answer to that really just does go back to business. War is quite simply good for the economy in general. While your idea would indeed sink a bit of isk, it won't be as much as people in empire losing their ships. I'd assume that's a rather large part of the reason, but this is just my personal opinion.

Lharanai
Posted - 2011.08.25 20:22:00 - [9]
 

Valid point, thanks I didn't consider the ISK sink mechanics

Inistis
V i r u s
Pendulum of Doom
Posted - 2011.08.25 20:40:00 - [10]
 

Of course the other option is to remain in a starter corp.

Or join a nullbear alliance and bear it up, in relative safety.

Malken
Celestial Apocalypse
Posted - 2011.08.25 21:01:00 - [11]
 

why pay?

do the non exploit way, create 4 extra corps with similar logo and name it 1 through 4.
when wardec comes all bail to #2
when wardec comes to #2 bail to #3
at wardec to #3 corp bail to #4

then they have to drop a wardec to one of the corps so thats where you bail to if you want to escape again.

there you have it the perfect wardec system as described as perfectly legal by CCP.

and i havent heard of anything yet that will change the mechanics from CCP.

Evil or Very MadRolling EyesRolling EyesRolling Eyes

Lharanai
Posted - 2011.08.25 21:20:00 - [12]
 

Edited by: Lharanai on 25/08/2011 21:24:15
I think here is a clarification needed,

I like wardecs by griefers, without wardecs I might have left EVE, it brought back the fun (being hunted can be fun). I was just seriously wondering why the wardec system is so unbalanced, and my idea was only about balancing. I am not looking for how to counter griefers (thats what alts are for), I was only interested if my idea was crap in regard to the game mechanics.

Which it is, as I completely forgot to consider ISK sinks, I think wardecs work fine here.

WatsonMayte
Caldari
The Condemned and Convicted
Posted - 2011.08.26 02:00:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Malken
why pay?

do the non exploit way, create 4 extra corps with similar logo and name it 1 through 4.
when wardec comes all bail to #2
when wardec comes to #2 bail to #3
at wardec to #3 corp bail to #4

then they have to drop a wardec to one of the corps so thats where you bail to if you want to escape again.

there you have it the perfect wardec system as described as perfectly legal by CCP.

and i havent heard of anything yet that will change the mechanics from CCP.

Evil or Very MadRolling EyesRolling EyesRolling Eyes



This is how war dec mechanics do NOT support the aggressor

Ynot Eyob
Minmatar
Nisroc Angels
The Obsidian Front
Posted - 2011.08.26 11:30:00 - [14]
 

We have just been at war for 9 weeks with one merc corp after the other deccing us, and yes it would have been nice in some cases to have such a buttom.

BUT!!

I think its a crazy idear, if Mercs are hired to take out a POS fx. of an alliance its only 50m for the dec (maximum 200m). If you can bribe concord for 75m any wars would become pointless and everyone would just do so, even the cost of one BS id more than the bribe your talking about.

Queen Tangerine
Posted - 2011.08.26 11:53:00 - [15]
 

You can already sort of buy your way out of a wardec by making the war cost ridiculous. Have multiple alt corps or friendly corps drop wardecs on you and/or the aggressor. The renewal cost for the real aggressor will be astronomical.

Peoples idea of a cheap griefing wardec at 2m a week goes sour fast when they start having to pay 30m.

Jiska Ensa
Posted - 2011.08.26 12:10:00 - [16]
 

I support the ability to buy out concord to end the war...as long as the aggressor can then offer them MORE money to continue it. And keep going back and forth until one side decides it's become too expensive :) Good isk sink (eve needs more), and the DECENT carebear corps should have no problem paying. The crap ones deserve to die anyway.

FYI I've only ever been on the bad side of a war-dec, but I can't sympathize with you OP, as we usually just go "lol" and hop into a wormhole, or hide behind low-sec (where griefers are afraid to go)

Ynot Eyob
Minmatar
Nisroc Angels
The Obsidian Front
Posted - 2011.08.26 12:16:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Jiska Ensa
I support the ability to buy out concord to end the war...as long as the aggressor can then offer them MORE money to continue it. And keep going back and forth until one side decides it's become too expensive :) Good isk sink (eve needs more), and the DECENT carebear corps should have no problem paying. The crap ones deserve to die anyway.



See this i like

ShadowMaiden
Amarr
Atrocity.
Posted - 2011.08.26 14:58:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Queen Tangerine
You can already sort of buy your way out of a wardec by making the war cost ridiculous. Have multiple alt corps or friendly corps drop wardecs on you and/or the aggressor. The renewal cost for the real aggressor will be astronomical.

Peoples idea of a cheap griefing wardec at 2m a week goes sour fast when they start having to pay 30m.


GMs have stated that doing this is an exploit.

Lharanai
Posted - 2011.08.26 16:01:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Jiska Ensa
I support the ability to buy out concord to end the war...as long as the aggressor can then offer them MORE money to continue it. And keep going back and forth until one side decides it's become too expensive :) Good isk sink (eve needs more), and the DECENT carebear corps should have no problem paying. The crap ones deserve to die anyway.

FYI I've only ever been on the bad side of a war-dec, but I can't sympathize with you OP, as we usually just go "lol" and hop into a wormhole, or hide behind low-sec (where griefers are afraid to go)


Lol, I am not looking for sympathy, having a good time on Sisi, playing with my alts, organizing stuff, wardecs gives me time for all the things I usually don't have the time.

But I like the ping pong idea, look this is exactly a response I was looking for, having an idea, see if it is crap or not (in regard of game mechanics and NOT of playing style) and improve it

Dasola
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.08.27 10:44:00 - [20]
 

I have played this game few years and on thing i have learned about highsec grief wars. Newer ever pay those griefers, if you do they will come back again for more or tell their friends about you.

If you have more people in corporation, hop in cheap t1 fitted frigates and go shoot them as team/fleet. Griefers end wardecks fast when they start to loose expensive ships.

Marv Laffoon
Posted - 2011.08.28 13:05:00 - [21]
 

I don't really understand these "suggestions" about highsec wars. Just move to lowsec for a week and they'll drop the war. If one thing has to change about war decs it's the fee should be made equal for corps and alliances. I don't see why my 3 man corp has to pay 50mil to war dec an alliance.

Mo0seluffer
Posted - 2011.08.29 14:42:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Marv Laffoon
I don't really understand these "suggestions" about highsec wars. Just move to lowsec for a week and they'll drop the war. If one thing has to change about war decs it's the fee should be made equal for corps and alliances. I don't see why my 3 man corp has to pay 50mil to war dec an alliance.


You have to pay more because an alliance is in fact bigger than just one corp *gaspnowairly*.A 3 man corp shouldnt be able to dec anyone tbh.3 man corps are just griefing tools and are taking pilots away from the other aspects of the game most of us are playing.Which happens to be an MMOSPRG
I am however willing to go as far as saying.The wardec fee should be based on the number of corps within the alliance.Just as the alliance bill is 2 mill per month per corp the wardec fee should be 2 mill per corp,Plan on decing a big alliance? The bill shouldnt be a problem.I mean you are the one who wants to dec them right?If your serious about delcaring war cost should not be an issue.If it is.Your not ready for a "real" war.

Hide behind lowsec
Jump in a wormhole
Swap corps
"Insert lame avoidance tatic here"

Sack up and fight.This game is built on player interaction.And dont gimme that old "omg they have more shinies than me we can never win against 100 million SP bittervets".Piloting skill and tactics > Skillpoints.Want single player go play Freelancer.This here is internet spaceships,And if you dinnet already know this is srs bzness.
Needless to say there shouldnt be anyway to get out of a corp thats war dec'd other than unsubbing.Why? Because we dont need people avoiding pvp(which happens to be where all the real content is) we need people willing to doit it.

Bad Messenger
draketrain
Posted - 2011.08.29 15:18:00 - [23]
 

You think that game mechanics has something wrong when you want to use only one part of that mechanics.

EVE is ment to be multi player game, if you have problems with wardecs you should form a security wing or hire someone to do that for you.

There is no safe place in EVE and that is only good thing about EVE.

Wardecs are one way to communicate with other players who mostly are not willing to do social part of EVE, they just want to grind wealth alone in the dark !

Malken
Celestial Apocalypse
Posted - 2011.08.30 06:19:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Lharanai
Edited by: Lharanai on 25/08/2011 15:32:20
Edited by: Lharanai on 25/08/2011 15:32:08
So I just want to hear your opinion about an idea I had, and if it is absolutely crap or not. And it is about High Sec Wardec mechanics. As we all now the mechanics at the moment favor the aggressor, I have read other suggestions and I want to offer a third way, called "buyout".

I have to clarify that I am strictly speaking about high sec and CONCORD. We all know Concord is corrupt, so give corporations the option to buy out of a wardec via bribing Concord (wardec fee + 50%).

If I don't miss anything (which is highly probable) this would make life for aggressors far more difficult, because they often only wardec allies which can not fight back (because they are mostly miners or industrials). High Sec should be High Sec and not a playground for griefers. And if you have to bribe the security forces, why not.

And now tell me how stupid that idea is


yes your idea is crap.

Tosser Galore
Posted - 2011.08.30 16:51:00 - [25]
 

Man up and pew pew. Blueball or get on alts.

Scrub.

Lharanai
Posted - 2011.08.31 14:17:00 - [26]
 

Dear all,

as I have pointed out earlier, my idea/question was never about anti-griefer tactics, only about balancing and game mechanics.

The idea is crap, but only because I completely forgot to consider wardecs as ISK sinks.

I want to thank the few people who put some thought on it, and the rest, if your critics can't be constructive or reasonable I am not interested in your opinion

Have a nice day

12 manbrawl Ormand
Posted - 2011.09.01 13:18:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Malken
why pay?

do the non exploit way, create 4 extra corps with similar logo and name it 1 through 4.
when wardec comes all bail to #2
when wardec comes to #2 bail to #3
at wardec to #3 corp bail to #4

then they have to drop a wardec to one of the corps so thats where you bail to if you want to escape again.

there you have it the perfect wardec system as described as perfectly legal by CCP.

and i havent heard of anything yet that will change the mechanics from CCP.

Evil or Very MadRolling EyesRolling EyesRolling Eyes


I've had a corp do this to me, as I am a high sec griefer, so I simply stopped warding them. They were happy and became overconfident and they went on a mining op in a 0.5 system with 4 hulks and an orca, so I grabbed a few friends and next thing you know, ARTY RUPPY GANG WARPS IN. We suicide ranked all the hulks and popped shots at the orca until concord warped in and popped our asses. This is simply to prove even further, that space is not meant to be totally safe even high sec when you aren't in a war.

Imustbecomfused
Close Proximity
Posted - 2011.09.01 17:54:00 - [28]
 

If there was a buyout, it should be regulated by concord. They are the ones the corp pays to initiate the war-dec, they should be the ones the corp pays to cancel the war-dec. Evil or Very Mad

Lharanai
Posted - 2011.09.01 19:07:00 - [29]
 

As it was stated in the original post.

Nevertheless, I consider this thread as closed as the idea would not improve the game mechanics.

Lhar

Stac Taron
Posted - 2011.09.04 21:35:00 - [30]
 

WAR Decs are flawed and used as grief tools in High Sec.

We were war decked by a 2 man corps, not bothered about it too much, thinking they were boosting the costs of decs against themselves.

Griefer Joins at 16:46, Kills at 16:47, laughs and taunts then leaves war dec corps again ?

meanwhile the war deccers aren't anywhere near us, so check local every 2 mins and D-Scan those cloaked scout ships, currently this sucks and should not be happening.

I can't think of any way to avoid this bar staying docked or quitting, as everyone in local 'could' be at war with you without you even knowing.


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