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Prision Style
Posted - 2011.08.25 03:49:00 - [1]
 

I want to train for the Cynbal , but looking at its stats it might seem better to go for the vaga or stabber fleet, . Isk is not a problem , I just want what has best preformance. Vaga has better resistance and more guns but cynabal has a bigger drone bay, What is your option on witch route I should go with and why. Thanks

Diomidis
Pod Liberation Authority
Posted - 2011.08.25 04:47:00 - [2]
 

Edited by: Diomidis on 25/08/2011 04:47:57
Originally by: Prision Style
I want to train for the Cynbal , but looking at its stats it might seem better to go for the vaga or stabber fleet, . Isk is not a problem , I just want what has best preformance. Vaga has better resistance and more guns but cynabal has a bigger drone bay, What is your option on witch route I should go with and why. Thanks


Cynabal is a clear winner against the vaga comparisson.
Yes, it lacks a bit in resists, but it can fit better guns along with an equal or better tank along with a med neut + 2x flights of light drones or a flight of med drones (i preffer 2x lights for ***-ecm options or spares).

The agility and the sig resolution (locking time) advantages are the determining factor tho...it's simply unchallenged, and just like the Machariel which boosts agility and speed unmatched by any other BS, this pirate cruiser will make you feel like you are flying a frigate with slower high-end speed and hac-like tank and dmg.

Overall the Cynabal beats the Vaga in everything but straight line top speed (tho it accelerates faster than the vaga).

PROS
++ Agility
+ Effective Dmg
+ Effective falloff
+ Ease of fitting
+ Tank - should you opt for T2 resist rigs etc
+ Locking speed
+ Acceleration
+ Drone bay

CONS
- Price
- Price
- Top end speed is not that good, still usually more than enough

The SFI is a different animal. Due to bonuses, it's more of a close range brawler / frig killer than any of the 2 above.
The Dual Prop / 2x MAR version of the ship is fun, tho I could never get decent fights out of it.
Go all-out aggressive, with a point-web config and humiliate frigs with it
Its fast in a straight line, but it's neither a vaga, nor a Cynabal (no falloff bonus = hard to kite and bring down most stuff)

Hiroshima Jita
Posted - 2011.08.25 09:12:00 - [3]
 

The SFI is the only choice for an armor tanker. Dual Prop.

The Vagabond is cheaper than the Cynabal and the Cynabal does alot of secondary things better if you consider the primary thing as being able to go over 3 klicks with 500ish DPS and good falloff.

The Cynabal can also use one of its midslots to dual prop or fit a web. Theoretically other EWAR is an option. A cap booster wouldn't be awful either.

Personally I think the Cynabal looks more like a turd than the Revenant.

Dirk Magnum
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
Posted - 2011.08.25 09:57:00 - [4]
 

Fleet Stabber is a Rupture that shoots with pinpoint accuracy. It's a different type of ship in terms of handling than the Vaga or Cynabal.

Amsterdam Conversations
Posted - 2011.08.26 15:22:00 - [5]
 

WTF is up with the stupid misconception that a Vagabond is faster than a Cynabal? The Cynabal is faster, hands down. You don't compare MWD-off speeds, that does not at all reflect their use.

Cynabal beats Vagabond in everything, even in speed. There is no reason whatsoever to choose a Vagabond over the Cynabal, aside from one obvious and another that a lot of people don't seem to know.

The obvious one: Cynabal costs more (like 20 or 30 mil ish, but if you don't have 30m you shouldn't fly a Vagabond in the first place)

The less obvious one: Cynabal cap is utter ****. Total ****. Give it 2 minutes of carefully MWDing around, running invul and pointing someone, you'll run out of cap and not ever see it coming back fast.

That is one of the greatest flaws and vulnerabilities of the cynabal, it's extremely vulnerable to neutralizers, chance is that a single neut hitting will completely kill a Cynabal.

Mini T
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2011.08.26 15:33:00 - [6]
 

Edited by: Mini T on 26/08/2011 15:33:29
Rifter -> Thrasher -> Cynabal -> Hurricane -> Machariel

Hands down, and I am fully trained Caldari.

Truthfully, being a solid Drake/Tengu pilot - adding the above has considerably changed/improved my enjoyment (cause the Drake/Tengu got boring, as much as I love them).

Adding Wolf/Jag to that mix.

Not sure I need anything else.

Dr Fighter
Posted - 2011.08.26 15:34:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Amsterdam Conversations

The less obvious one: Cynabal cap is utter ****. Total ****. Give it 2 minutes of carefully MWDing around, running invul and pointing someone, you'll run out of cap and not ever see it coming back fast.



if you run an invul with an AC setup you arnt very smart

Amsterdam Conversations
Posted - 2011.08.26 16:01:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Dr Fighter
Originally by: Amsterdam Conversations

The less obvious one: Cynabal cap is utter ****. Total ****. Give it 2 minutes of carefully MWDing around, running invul and pointing someone, you'll run out of cap and not ever see it coming back fast.



if you run an invul with an AC setup you arnt very smart


I'll gladly exchance some cap for better RR and a 40m smaller sig.

Muad 'dib
Caldari
The Imperial Fedaykin
Posted - 2011.08.26 16:03:00 - [9]
 

LOL at the wanna be cyna pilots with their invuls and cap issues

Uppsy Daisy
Caldari
Deteis Industries
Posted - 2011.08.26 16:18:00 - [10]
 

Edited by: Uppsy Daisy on 26/08/2011 16:18:13
Yep, neuts kill a cynabal.

Even when you swap an invuln for a web.

http://www.amarr-empire.net/killboard/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=214541

Muad 'dib
Caldari
The Imperial Fedaykin
Posted - 2011.08.26 16:22:00 - [11]
 

Edited by: Muad ''dib on 26/08/2011 16:22:56
Originally by: Uppsy Daisy
Edited by: Uppsy Daisy on 26/08/2011 16:18:13
Yep, neuts kill a cynabal.

Even when you swap an invuln for a web.

http://www.amarr-empire.net/killboard/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=214541



Whats your piont?

Nuets killing cruisers is hardly headline news...

oh and btw it was the last minute warp in webbing ashimuu with link bonuses that caught me for long enough to catch me, not actually the neuts (range reasons).

Cipher Jones
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.08.26 16:43:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Uppsy Daisy
Edited by: Uppsy Daisy on 26/08/2011 16:18:13
Yep, neuts kill a cynabal.

Even when you swap an invuln for a web.

http://www.amarr-empire.net/killboard/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=214541



More importantly a BC and faction cruiser kill cruisers. You made yourself look kinda dumb by posting that, because you cant post a cruiser fit that can take the ships involved in that KM out, unless its a t3 cruiser.

Maz3r Rakum
Gallente
The Imperial Fedaykin
Posted - 2011.08.26 19:46:00 - [13]
 

Cynabal is generally much better than a Vagabond, in pretty much every regard. However, Vagabond isn't a whole lot worse.

Cynabal gets a utility slot in the mids, so it is perfectly fine to fit a cap booster, faction web (for effectively tackling other nano ***s, or keep scram frigs at bay), tracking disrupter, cap booster, or more tank.

Predator989
Posted - 2011.09.02 06:30:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Prision Style
I want to train for the Cynbal , but looking at its stats it might seem better to go for the vaga or stabber fleet, . Isk is not a problem , I just want what has best preformance. Vaga has better resistance and more guns but cynabal has a bigger drone bay, What is your option on witch route I should go with and why. Thanks


Depends on your HACs and gal/min cruiser levels.....if both are at 5 you get these stats. Take your pick



Vagabond :
220mms = tracking
resists = decent
cap regen is slightly higher
Better at killing drones/tackle

Cynabal :
Ability to fit 425mms and a neut OR Arties (yes it is giggles)
MUCH more agile, and overall faster than a vagabond until the vagabond fits polycarbs
Slightly worse tracking

The dps is roughly the same on both when you do a 2x TE, 2x Gyro, and 1x nanofiber on each setup: (this is NOT counting drones)

Vagabond = 436 dps 904 volley with 28.8km max falloff
Cynabal = 439 dps 1085 volley with 31.9km max falloff

The main advantages of the cynabal are:

EHP, dronebay, damage(slightly), rigs slots, and speed

If you don't care for that....buy a vagabond

Grimpak
Gallente
Midnight Elites
Echelon Rising
Posted - 2011.09.02 07:43:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Predator989
EHP, dronebay, damage(slightly), rigs slots, and speed


more like agility really. the ship is much more agile than the vagabond and that's the main point.


in every other stat it is really not that amazing.

a vagabond with HAC 5 and a cynabal will have the same falloff bonus, the vaga will be slightly faster and the EHP and dps difference isn't that great when it comes down to the base stats.

it is, indeed, easier to fit 425's with some goodies extra in the highslots, while the vaga needs to downgrade to 220's to fit a neut, and it has a larger drone bay that gives it more tactical options, but the main performance point of the cynabal vs vagabond is the GTFO ability provided by the near-interceptor agility that the cynabal has.


TL;DR while in many aspects they are somewhat equally performant, the cynabal is a vagabond that can escape out of more engagements than the vagabond itself.

and shoot frigates out at 40-50km with 425's.

Sidus Isaacs
Gallente
Posted - 2011.09.02 12:17:00 - [16]
 

I use mostly Vagas, because they are cheaper. But Cyna is cool as well, since, as stated, had awesome agility.

Othran
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2011.09.02 16:37:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Grimpak

more like agility really. the ship is much more agile than the vagabond and that's the main point.


in every other stat it is really not that amazing.

a vagabond with HAC 5 and a cynabal will have the same falloff bonus, the vaga will be slightly faster and the EHP and dps difference isn't that great when it comes down to the base stats.

it is, indeed, easier to fit 425's with some goodies extra in the highslots, while the vaga needs to downgrade to 220's to fit a neut, and it has a larger drone bay that gives it more tactical options, but the main performance point of the cynabal vs vagabond is the GTFO ability provided by the near-interceptor agility that the cynabal has.


TL;DR while in many aspects they are somewhat equally performant, the cynabal is a vagabond that can escape out of more engagements than the vagabond itself.

and shoot frigates out at 40-50km with 425's.


Capacitor. The Vagabond is gimped to hell on the cap. The Vagabond may be slightly faster but it won't outrun a Cynabal unless the Vaga pilot has Snakes and distance - the Vagabond's cap will be dead long before that happens. This IS a major advantage as the sarcastic posts earlier in the thread indicate Rolling Eyes

Also you can't have a viable dual-prop setup on a Vagabond. Oh and drones, grid, agility. It always amazes me that people go on about Dramiels - the real star of the Angel show is the Cynabal. The Machariel IS lovely but on a cost/fun basis the Cynabal blows it away.

Grimpak
Gallente
Midnight Elites
Echelon Rising
Posted - 2011.09.02 18:43:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Othran
Originally by: Grimpak

more like agility really. the ship is much more agile than the vagabond and that's the main point.


in every other stat it is really not that amazing.

a vagabond with HAC 5 and a cynabal will have the same falloff bonus, the vaga will be slightly faster and the EHP and dps difference isn't that great when it comes down to the base stats.

it is, indeed, easier to fit 425's with some goodies extra in the highslots, while the vaga needs to downgrade to 220's to fit a neut, and it has a larger drone bay that gives it more tactical options, but the main performance point of the cynabal vs vagabond is the GTFO ability provided by the near-interceptor agility that the cynabal has.


TL;DR while in many aspects they are somewhat equally performant, the cynabal is a vagabond that can escape out of more engagements than the vagabond itself.

and shoot frigates out at 40-50km with 425's.


Capacitor. The Vagabond is gimped to hell on the cap. The Vagabond may be slightly faster but it won't outrun a Cynabal unless the Vaga pilot has Snakes and distance - the Vagabond's cap will be dead long before that happens. This IS a major advantage as the sarcastic posts earlier in the thread indicate Rolling Eyes

Also you can't have a viable dual-prop setup on a Vagabond. Oh and drones, grid, agility. It always amazes me that people go on about Dramiels - the real star of the Angel show is the Cynabal. The Machariel IS lovely but on a cost/fun basis the Cynabal blows it away.
Cynabal's major point vs Vagabond is still the agility tho. Cap wise it is better but it's not as great as is the agility.

Othran
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2011.09.03 14:41:00 - [19]
 

The cap difference is MASSIVE. The Vagabond's cap is so bad that if someone slaps a medium neut on it you'll be damn lucky if you get a couple of mwd cycles before you're capped out.

Agility is great I agree, but the Cynabal's cap advantage means you have more options and can stick around the fight longer. With the Vagabond you're pretty constrained in the fit, both for grid and cap reasons so the cookie-cutter setup is what you find most times.

TBH the nerf the Cynabal needs IS agility - aligning 0.7 seconds faster than a Jaguar is just wrong. I love the Cynabal but that's just wrong.

Amsterdam Conversations
Posted - 2011.09.04 06:54:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Grimpak
Originally by: Predator989
EHP, dronebay, damage(slightly), rigs slots, and speed


more like agility really. the ship is much more agile than the vagabond and that's the main point.


in every other stat it is really not that amazing.

a vagabond with HAC 5 and a cynabal will have the same falloff bonus, the vaga will be slightly faster and the EHP and dps difference isn't that great when it comes down to the base stats.

it is, indeed, easier to fit 425's with some goodies extra in the highslots, while the vaga needs to downgrade to 220's to fit a neut, and it has a larger drone bay that gives it more tactical options, but the main performance point of the cynabal vs vagabond is the GTFO ability provided by the near-interceptor agility that the cynabal has.


TL;DR while in many aspects they are somewhat equally performant, the cynabal is a vagabond that can escape out of more engagements than the vagabond itself.

and shoot frigates out at 40-50km with 425's.


Once again. The Cynabal is faster than a Vagabond.

The EHP difference is also ~20%, so not negligible like you say. And this is assuming the Vagabond you compare it to has a damage control fitted, which most do not; while Cynabals usually have damage controls fitted.

Cynabals aren't overpowered because of their agility, they are because of their ability to fit 2 sets of light drones or a medium set, go faster than Vagabonds, can fit 425s and a neut, have the scan resolution 2/3rds of an interceptor and have an extra mid for dualprop/EW/invul.

Their agility being OP, yes and no. It only makes them harder to catch, which is nothing wrong per se.

And to the cap discussion... Vagabond loads 1 cap per second faster than a cynabal, which is loads.

Grimpak
Gallente
Midnight Elites
Echelon Rising
Posted - 2011.09.04 11:46:00 - [21]
 

Edited by: Grimpak on 04/09/2011 11:51:28
Originally by: Amsterdam Conversations
Once again. The Cynabal is faster than a Vagabond.



cynabal speed with nav 5: 321m/sec
vagabond speed with nav 5 AND prerequisite minmatar cruiser 5 (remember that the vaga inherits the speed bonus of the stabber): 373m/sec

said cynabal with mwd on and accel. control to 5: 2496m/sec
said vaga with mwd on and accel. control to 5: 2484m/sec

so yes, vaga is slower with mwd on, but faster with mwd off.

this happens because of the mass of the cynabal being less than the vaga (thus contributing to the overwhelming agility advantage over the vaga).

in any case, the vaga is slightly faster with no prop mods and slightly slower with prop mods.

so yes I concede to the fact that the vaga is slower when you cram a mwd in it.


by 12m/sec


in the rest of the issues however, while you're right, it is still the fact that the cynabal can navigate better in the battlefield what makes it better than the vaga.

tactical advantage of the 50m3 drone bay is good but not as great as some people paint it.
EHP, well ok yeah, I concede defeat on that point.

capacitor.. it's depending how it's fitted. vaga can support a bit more due to the extra 1cap per sec it gains over the cynabal. In the long run however, it means that it just takes a tiny bit longer to get drained out.


 

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