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blankseplocked 80 mil for around 10 hours in a hulk????
 
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morrosis
Posted - 2011.08.25 03:41:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: morrosis on 25/08/2011 03:44:01
Edited by: morrosis on 25/08/2011 03:42:31
Ok so I have been a my hulk for a few weeks now. On my day's off or on weekends when I can get away from the wife I tend to play for around 10 hours straight.

I'm in high sec only at the moment so am only mining pyro and veld, I have tech 2 strips with tech 2 mlu's tech 2 crystals with a highwall hx-2. I'm also in a fleet with max orca boosts the full time as well and have a itty five hauler alt.

I do the reprocessing all my self and have a 0% loss and only pay a little tax at the moment but will soon have a zero percent tax as well.

I have found that I tend to only have 80mil a day, I was hoping that going from my ret to the hulk I would be making more along the lines of 100mil +.

Is there something I am missing? Or is this around the right ball park for isk?


Tau Cabalander
Posted - 2011.08.25 03:55:00 - [2]
 

Edited by: Tau Cabalander on 25/08/2011 03:58:40

Solo Hulk (T2 strips + 2x MLU + HX-2) with drones:

1679.4 m3/minute * Pyroxeres @ 109.77 ISK/m3 * 60 minutes/hour = 11,060,864.28 ISK/hour

So ya, 100m seems right for 10 hours, depending on your fit and time spent hauling.

Fleeting with an Orca with a skilled pilot would boost that by 55.14%, again minus time for hauling, unless there is also a dedicated hauler so the Orca doesn't have to stop boosting.

morrosis
Posted - 2011.08.25 03:57:00 - [3]
 

Edited by: morrosis on 25/08/2011 04:03:24
Edited by: morrosis on 25/08/2011 04:01:55
Originally by: Tau Cabalander
Solo Hulk (T2 strips & 2x MLU) with drones:

1679.4 m3/minute * Pyroxeres @ 109.77 ISK/m3 * 60 minutes/hour = 11,060,864.28 ISK/hour

So ya, 100m seems right for 10 hours, depending on your fit and time spent hauling.



Ok so im not making the right amount then, I'm missing something here any one able to tell me what?

my activation time/ duration is 134.64

my full strip amount for pyro is 5901, veld it is around 17k a strip.

I have a itty 5 hauler that I jet can into so I do not have to leave the belt at all in my hulk

Tau Cabalander
Posted - 2011.08.25 04:05:00 - [4]
 

Edited by: Tau Cabalander on 25/08/2011 04:10:27

Are you mining Pyroxeres constantly for 10 hours? I doubt it. You'd run out of asteroids and have to move = time not mining.

Are you hauling ore to a station? = time not mining.

Are all your skills maxed?

Are you using max skill mining drones? Are you right on the asteroid so the drones don't waste time traveling?

Do you go AFK and have your strips go idle?

Are you getting max price for your minerals, or just accepting whatever buy order you find?

Are you losing ISK to broker fees and transaction taxes?

Tau Cabalander
Posted - 2011.08.25 04:09:00 - [5]
 

Edited by: Tau Cabalander on 25/08/2011 04:18:46

Oops... made a mistake. Had wrong MLUs fitted in EFT.

Originally by: Tau Cabalander
Solo Hulk (T2 strips + 2x MLU + HX-2) with drones:
1936.5 m3/minute * Pyroxeres @ 109.77 ISK/m3 * 60 minutes/hour = 12,754,176.3 ISK/hour


Mining drone rigs would be too crazy, but I forgot to include those in the theoretical max calculation.

FYI, I don't get the max either, as I don't fit MLUs, rarely use T2 strips in hisec (too lazy to change crystals on small hisec asteroids) don't always use drones, and my mining drone skills are poor.

morrosis
Posted - 2011.08.25 04:16:00 - [6]
 

Edited by: morrosis on 25/08/2011 04:20:23
Originally by: Tau Cabalander
Erm... I think you are doing fine at 80m.

Are you mining Pyroxeres constantly for 10 hours? I doubt it. You'd run out of asteroids and have to move = time not mining.

Are you hauling ore to a station? = time not mining.

Are all your skills maxed?

Are you using max skill mining drones?

Do you go AFK and have your strips go idle?

Are you getting max price for your minerals, or just accepting whatever buy order you find?

Are you losing ISK to broker fees and transaction taxes?



Are you mining Pyroxeres constantly for 10 hours? I doubt it. You'd run out of asteroids and have to move = time not mining.
I do move belts and when pyro runs out I hit veld, this would be a loss but nothing massive

Are you hauling ore to a station? = time not mining.
No I have a alt that I have a itty 5 doing my hauling in

Are all your skills maxed?
industry is at 5, mining is at 5, mining upgrades is at 4, pyro and veld processing is at 4, refining is at 5, refine efficiency is at 5, exhumers is at 3 and mining barge at 5. I can not think of other skills I need input welcome.

Are you using max skill mining drones?
I only just got minind drones to 5, and today is the first time I am using them so hoping to see a difference

Do you go AFK and have your strips go idle?
I sit for the full 10 hours, get up every so oftern to use the loo or if the wife needs help with something from time to time so this is a little issue but they do not go down for too long

Are you getting max price for your minerals, or just accepting whatever buy order you find?
I'm only a few jumps from amarr so I try to get the best prices and I also use eve centeral and evemon to track the amount I should get.


Are you losing ISK to broker fees and transaction taxes?
The alliance has a 0% tax and I only pay 3% station tax at the moment I also lose 0% in refining it.

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2011.08.25 04:17:00 - [7]
 

Edited by: Akita T on 25/08/2011 04:18:44

Originally by: morrosis
my activation time/ duration is 134.64
my full strip amount for pyro is 5901, veld it is around 17k a strip.
I have a itty 5 hauler that I jet can into so I do not have to leave the belt at all in my hulk

5901 pyroxeres * 0.3 m^3/unit ~= 1770 m^3 per cycle, which would mean around 17700 veldspar units per cycle.
I assume this is per strip miner, not total across all three strip miners, right ? It can't be per miner, since even with T1 strips at minimal skills to board a Hulk you should be making more than that.
So that would leave you with 1770 per cycle * 3 strips * 3600 seconds per hour / 134.64 seconds per cycle ~= 142k m^3 of ore per hour.
With a nice round 110 ISK per m^3 of pyroxeres with perfect refine (veldspar is around 105 ISK per m^3 so that shouldn't really matter all that much), that should come around at roughly 15.6 mil ISK per hour, more if you mine all variants of pyroxeres rather than just the basic version, call it 16 mil ISK/hour.

Yet somehow, you manage to only get 8 mil ISK/hour.

You're basically getting half of what the numbers say you should be getting. That's quite odd if you ask me.
Are you really only mining half of the time ? Or what the hell are your refining skills ? Or how do you sell your stuff anyway, as ore or as minerals ? And at what price ?

Edit : just seen your post above with clarifications. Even weirder. I have no idea what the bloody hell is happening to you.

morrosis
Posted - 2011.08.25 04:24:00 - [8]
 

Edited by: morrosis on 25/08/2011 04:35:44
Edited by: morrosis on 25/08/2011 04:31:56
Edited by: morrosis on 25/08/2011 04:25:15
Originally by: Akita T
Edited by: Akita T on 25/08/2011 04:18:44

Originally by: morrosis
my activation time/ duration is 134.64
my full strip amount for pyro is 5901, veld it is around 17k a strip.
I have a itty 5 hauler that I jet can into so I do not have to leave the belt at all in my hulk

5901 pyroxeres * 0.3 m^3/unit ~= 1770 m^3 per cycle, which would mean around 17700 veldspar units per cycle.
I assume this is per strip miner, not total across all three strip miners, right ? It can't be per miner, since even with T1 strips at minimal skills to board a Hulk you should be making more than that.
So that would leave you with 1770 per cycle * 3 strips * 3600 seconds per hour / 134.64 seconds per cycle ~= 142k m^3 of ore per hour.
With a nice round 110 ISK per m^3 of pyroxeres with perfect refine (veldspar is around 105 ISK per m^3 so that shouldn't really matter all that much), that should come around at roughly 15.6 mil ISK per hour, more if you mine all variants of pyroxeres rather than just the basic version, call it 16 mil ISK/hour.

Yet somehow, you manage to only get 8 mil ISK/hour.

You're basically getting half of what the numbers say you should be getting. That's quite odd if you ask me.
Are you really only mining half of the time ? Or what the hell are your refining skills ? Or how do you sell your stuff anyway, as ore or as minerals ? And at what price ?

Edit : just seen your post above with clarifications. Even weirder. I have no idea what the bloody hell is happening to you.


Something is wrong and I need to work it out V.V, yeah 5901 is per strip and 17700 is the total for all 3. I rearly have to move in belt as the orca boosts give a 23k laser range and I mine the viscous> solid > pyro and same with veld, dense> concentrated> veld.

Tjomek Dumber
Ore Production and Refining Coropration
Posted - 2011.08.25 05:07:00 - [9]
 

if you do all what you have stated in posts above, then there is only 1 eplaination left, you are selling cheap. You are getting the yield / h, you hardly afk and u mine the right ore (based on isk / h calcs). What are you getting for trit, pye, mex and nocx?

Tj, out.

morrosis
Posted - 2011.08.25 05:17:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Tjomek Dumber
if you do all what you have stated in posts above, then there is only 1 eplaination left, you are selling cheap. You are getting the yield / h, you hardly afk and u mine the right ore (based on isk / h calcs). What are you getting for trit, pye, mex and nocx?

Tj, out.


I guess this is the issue then. I also spoke to a mate and he said using the mining drones will make a difference as well.

Miss Rabblt
Posted - 2011.08.25 09:45:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: morrosis

Are you mining Pyroxeres constantly for 10 hours? I doubt it. You'd run out of asteroids and have to move = time not mining.

I do move belts and when pyro runs out I hit veld, this would be a loss but nothing massive


this. You mine like 20% of pyro + 80% of veldspar if i remember high-sec belts right

Tear Anasarsy
Caldari
Kigurosaka Corporation
Posted - 2011.08.25 09:58:00 - [12]
 

Also another tip.

Try not to leave the strips to finish a complete cycle, if a astroid runs out half way through a cycle you wont know until the cycle has finished so you have basically wasted time.

If i am actually paying attention to mining and not semi afk i normally restart my strip miners about half way to prevent wasted mining.

Or use a survey scanner and pick at the biggest astroids first and rescan every cycle to make sur eits not going to pop on th enext cycle.

Zifrian
Deep Space Innovations
Posted - 2011.08.25 11:11:00 - [13]
 

16 mil per hour is what I have been going off of. Don't discount drones though. The yield they bring is significant over time. Not sure why more people don't use them.

How do you sell on market? If you are just quick selling to whatever buy orders are up, thanks from this industrialist but you are losing quite a bit of isk that way. I almost always go with sell orders.

There is the issue though with timing. The isk per hour calcs assume non-stop full yield mining so even at 16 mil, it's probably less. Half cycle rocks, moving for range, warping to new belts, etc. This is where drones can fill in some of your lost profit.

Libby Maker
Posted - 2011.08.25 11:25:00 - [14]
 

Noticed that you say your Exhumer skill is 3 pushing that to 5 will give you an extra 6% per strip miner per cyle, so for 3 strip miners you are losing 18% yield per cycle

Flaming Candle
Posted - 2011.08.25 12:39:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Libby Maker
Noticed that you say your Exhumer skill is 3 pushing that to 5 will give you an extra 6% per strip miner per cyle, so for 3 strip miners you are losing 18% yield per cycle

Where did you learn about percentages? Getting exhumers to level 5 will get you *roughly* 6% more yield, 6% is 6% regardless of how many mining lasers you use.

Steve Ronuken
Posted - 2011.08.25 12:40:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Libby Maker
Noticed that you say your Exhumer skill is 3 pushing that to 5 will give you an extra 6% per strip miner per cyle, so for 3 strip miners you are losing 18% yield per cycle


Slight nitpick. losing 6% per strip miner per cycle means losing 6% total yield per cycle. It doesn't add up.

100 yield without, 106 yield with, per cycle.
300 total without, 318 total with.

Mordiss Nex
Posted - 2011.08.25 15:27:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Steve Ronuken
Originally by: Libby Maker
Noticed that you say your Exhumer skill is 3 pushing that to 5 will give you an extra 6% per strip miner per cyle, so for 3 strip miners you are losing 18% yield per cycle


Slight nitpick. losing 6% per strip miner per cycle means losing 6% total yield per cycle. It doesn't add up.

100 yield without, 106 yield with, per cycle.
300 total without, 318 total with.


6/100 = 6%
18/300 = 6%

Rebbecca Black
Posted - 2011.08.25 15:33:00 - [18]
 

I have never found a way with one toon to make mining more profitable than missions/anoms. If you're looking for isk/hour with a single toon mining doesn't cut it, even doing ABC's. If I remember correctly, it wasn't till someone was using 6 accounts at once to mine (with rorq boosts) that they actually started making 'bank' on par with what I was pulling out of Patrols (havens) solo. And yes I have a max hulk/mackinaw and have since switched my second account's focus from mining to indy/ratting.

If you're into manufacturing and that's why you mine, use buy orders as they're much more efficient.

morrosis
Posted - 2011.08.25 22:28:00 - [19]
 

Thanks for the tips guys, I do plan to getting in to making ships just not sure yet.

Aggressive Nutmeg
Posted - 2011.08.26 03:09:00 - [20]
 

I do a bit of mining, but the sad reality is how unprofitable it is. Why mine for 10mil/hr when you can easily mission for 20-40mil/hr or more (depending on loot drops/salvage)?

Even if I want ore for my next production run, I'm better off missioning and buying the ore than mining it myself.

It's a shame, because I do enjoy a spot of mining when I want to relax.

morrosis
Posted - 2011.08.26 11:27:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Aggressive Nutmeg
I do a bit of mining, but the sad reality is how unprofitable it is. Why mine for 10mil/hr when you can easily mission for 20-40mil/hr or more (depending on loot drops/salvage)?

Even if I want ore for my next production run, I'm better off missioning and buying the ore than mining it myself.

It's a shame, because I do enjoy a spot of mining when I want to relax.


I mine for the very fact you mentioned, I use it to relax If I don't have to work and the wife is off my back about house work then it's a good day I can sit in front of the computer have eve running on two monitors and and be watching a movie or browsing the net on the other.

Yolamine
Posted - 2011.08.26 12:11:00 - [22]
 

Importent pointers:

A) Your bonuses is added to the end of each cyckle, wich means if you stop the cyckle halfway thru you loose the bonus.

B) Try increase income by using the minerals to build stuff. Thats where the multiplier is when it comes to making good money.

Fly safe.

Yolamine

Herbin Black
Caldari
Beyond The Rim
DarkStorm Enterprises
Posted - 2011.08.26 13:36:00 - [23]
 

i used to mine in highsec myself back when i started and did it later as well for the kicks. if you have 2 accounts, on both you should have a hulk skilled.

also, if the orca pilot is your, you would mine more ore with him as well rather then boost 1 hulk. i am not sure, but i think that the orca boost is better if you are useing 3 hulks and an orca rather then 4 hulks....for 2 or 1 hulk alone, you will make more while mining with the orca alt....need some calculation so i can be sure about the numbers tho ;)

that only works when you can jetcan mine in peace without can flippers in your system. i tendt to mine for 1,5h then use 1 of my chars to haul the cans back to station with my orca.

Thomas Turnpoint
Posted - 2011.08.26 20:17:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Yolamine

B) Try increase income by using the minerals to build stuff. Thats where the multiplier is when it comes to making good money.

Fly safe.

Yolamine


On its face, that makes sense, however when you take into consideration the materials waste involved, especially with BPO's, the marin of profit shrinks enough that you have to watch the market daily to see if it's worth it to sell stuff or sell minerals.

Buying quality BPO's can make that a little less of an issue, but then you have to look at the long term as to how long you have to churn out the item in order to cover the cost of the BPO.
Same with BPC's, but you really have to closely look at the price vs. value on the item. You may be able to start turning a nice profit on building something after you've built 20 of them, but if it's only a 10run BPC, you lose isk on it.


Dracko Malus
Starfrackers Inc
Quantum Forge
Posted - 2011.08.26 20:24:00 - [25]
 

Oh, and on a side note. When using the mining drones.. also check the level of skill you have in:
Drone Interfacing

Allows a captain to better maintain its drones. 20% bonus to drone damage, drone mining yield per level.

Jason McCoy
Posted - 2011.08.26 22:20:00 - [26]
 

If your orca pilot is maxed skilled, your cycle seems off. My maxed out orca pilot with mindlink implant I get just a smidge over two minute cycles. I dont remember the exact numbers, but its a bit shorter than 136 seconds you posted.

Taedrin
Gallente
Kushan Industrial
Posted - 2011.08.27 00:20:00 - [27]
 

Sounds just about right for a high sec hulk miner.

This is the reason why Akita T tells people NOT to get into mining. The only way to make mining worthwhile is to mine ABC ores in null sec or wormhole space (and the CSM seems bent on making ABC ores inaccessible to low-quality w-space).

morrosis
Posted - 2011.08.27 06:08:00 - [28]
 

Edited by: morrosis on 27/08/2011 08:41:23
Edited by: morrosis on 27/08/2011 08:32:57
I'm waiting for my Orca alt to be fully trained, then will be looking for a 0.0 sec alliance/ corp that I can mine in. This will be some time away as I would like to have full boosts from it.


So for the time being just highsec for me.

Velicitia
Gallente
Open Designs
Posted - 2011.08.27 12:47:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: Thomas Turnpoint
... in order to cover the cost of the BPO.



You never have to "cover the cost" of a BPO. A BPO is a "Capital Investment", and nearly always retains its value (i.e. you can resell it for what you paid for it). Additionally, a researched BPO is always more valuable than a vanilla BPO from the NPCs... so just by researching it a little, you've already recouped the initial investment.

BPO = ISK in a(n essentially) non-volatile form

Maxpie
Metaphysical Utopian Society Explorations
Posted - 2011.08.28 16:22:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Aggressive Nutmeg
I do a bit of mining, but the sad reality is how unprofitable it is. Why mine for 10mil/hr when you can easily mission for 20-40mil/hr or more (depending on loot drops/salvage)?

Even if I want ore for my next production run, I'm better off missioning and buying the ore than mining it myself.

It's a shame, because I do enjoy a spot of mining when I want to relax.


My feelings exactly.


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