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blankseplocked Autopilot to 0, with jump delay
 
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Covert Kitty
Amarr
SRS Industries
SRS.
Posted - 2011.08.24 18:14:00 - [1]
 

It is my opinion that there is little to no gameplay benefit to having the AP warp to 0. Instead, let's replace it with a 5 sec delay before the AP activates a gate. This delay would provide the time pirates need to scan a target and decide to gank it or not (which would then happen on the other side of the gate).

I am under no illusion that most peoples knee jerk reaction will be against this idea. I certainly understand where the concern comes from, highsec is too safe and to profitable as it is, why buff it?

It used to be that warping to gates would always be at 10km. That had some advantages and disadvantages gameplay wise, in either case that debate is long over. The question now is, does having AP warp to 10km help gameplay more than hurt it? I'll be honest, I hate traveling, it's repetitive and boring, there's no real gameplay there at all. As it is right now, except under a wardec highsec is very nearly perfectly safe, unless your flying something worth suicide ganking. I regularly travel from place to place to join various ops and roams, and since our alliance primarily lives in wh's the trip to whatever system we are staging at can be quite a hike. It's just seems to me that I shouldn't have to be here brainlessly clicking warp / jump for an extended period of time to get to the destination in a reasonable time frame, especially if your flying a battleship or bc.

I don't want to make highsec any more safe with this change, which is why I propose a AP jump delay to compensate for the time. One could make the argument that the act of traveling through highsec is boring because its too safe, because there is no spacial "terrain" or other gameplay to it. I would agree with that sentiment, however as eve is currently, AP to 0 with a jump delay would benefit overall gameplay. With the delay the danger level should be similar to how it is now, AP still wont activate your cloak, turn on your mwd, or crash back on a gate.

Nyarlothotep
The Blue Dagger Mercenery Agency
Posted - 2011.08.24 20:23:00 - [2]
 

While CCP is at it, they can have ships appear within 2500m of the gate after a jump. The current system works well enough, unless players are too lazy to actually pay attention to their carebear caravans.

Gevlin
Minmatar
Lone Star Exploration
Lone Star Partners
Posted - 2011.08.25 02:55:00 - [3]
 

what about minmitar freighters and other fast travel ships that have given up cargo space, tanks, etc for a faster speed.

Your proposal is removing a varience of the game.

Newt Rondanse
Posted - 2011.08.25 02:58:00 - [4]
 

http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=475808

Welcome to 2007, or maybe 2006.

It's a dead issue.

Personally, I think that the AP is too aggressive, and should be warping to 25km just to be safe.

Covert Kitty
Amarr
SRS Industries
SRS.
Posted - 2011.08.25 03:28:00 - [5]
 

Quote:
While CCP is at it, they can have ships appear within 2500m of the gate after a jump. The current system works well enough, unless players are too lazy to actually pay attention to their carebear caravans.

Obviously no, this would make ganking people harder, highsec is plenty safe enough. Note that my suggestion includes a gate activation delay for the AP, not just simply warping to 0. This would give plenty of time for pirates to scan a targets cargo, and possibly even gank it before it even activates the gate.

Quote:
what about minmitar freighters and other fast travel ships that have given up cargo space, tanks, etc for a faster speed. Your proposal is removing a varience of the game.

Align speed and warp speed instead of straight up speed, it doesn't really remove variance, it just incentivises a different fit.

Quote:
Welcome to 2007, or maybe 2006. It's a dead issue.
Personally, I think that the AP is too aggressive, and should be warping to 25km just to be safe.

Old issue, which I think deserves a second look. Ask yourself this: whats the benefit, to anyone, of the AP warping to 10km or more. It's repetitive and boring, and for larger ships basically impossibly slow. If CCP isn't going to implement some actual gameplay around this mechanic I would rather use the travel time to an op staging system to get some water, make some food, etc.

Now, before anyone says "oh well its just for highsec care-bares", consider that nullsec alliances get jump bridges and jump drives to help move their people from front to front. In wormholes (which is where I live) of course the mechanic is completely different. So there is plenty of precedent for re-imagining how travel mechanics work.

Any time gameplay requires doing one extremely basic task over and over again for a long period of time it's worth looking at again, the AP system is one of those things.

Danika Princip
Minmatar
Tactical Narcotics Team
Posted - 2011.08.25 05:10:00 - [6]
 

Edited by: Danika Princip on 25/08/2011 05:10:39
Originally by: Covert Kitty

Obviously no, this would make ganking people harder, highsec is plenty safe enough. Note that my suggestion includes a gate activation delay for the AP, not just simply warping to 0. This would give plenty of time for pirates to scan a targets cargo, and possibly even gank it before it even activates the gate.



In five seconds? Can a tempest (those are still popular ganking ships, right?) even lock an industrial in five seconds? You'd be making cargo frigates all but impossible to gank in anything besides instalock BCs, surely? And how long does it take to suicide gank a freighter? More than five seconds?

Shieko Chan
Posted - 2011.08.25 07:12:00 - [7]
 

Quote:
It is my opinion that there is little to no gameplay benefit to having the AP warp to 0. Instead, let's replace it with a 5 sec delay before the AP activates a gate. This delay would provide the time pirates need to scan a target and decide to gank it or not (which would then happen on the other side of the gate).


huh, cuz pirates need a fool proof way to always scan every ship that comes by.... so lets make things easier for the poor hobos.

Rina Asanari
Posted - 2011.08.25 07:27:00 - [8]
 

Face it, Autopilot warping to zero will be never done. Sure, travelling is a major pain in the backside, but I think when transporting some valuable cargo you're entitled to take some better care of it than just setting the course and enabling the autopilot.

Changing the AP to warp to zero and add a delay would be even counter-productive when aiming for safety from ganking crews. Prospective targets gather on a much smaller spot around the gates and remain even stationary the whole time.


Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
Posted - 2011.08.25 08:35:00 - [9]
 

Five seconds is too short, has to be based on the slowest "user" which in this case means freighters, so 15-30s is probably more relevant
You also have to avoid gimping manual warp -> AP jump mechanic which I for one use quite heavily.

Feligast
Minmatar
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.08.25 09:09:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Hirana Yoshida
Five seconds is too short, has to be based on the slowest "user" which in this case means freighters, so 15-30s is probably more relevant
You also have to avoid gimping manual warp -> AP jump mechanic which I for one use quite heavily.


Just coming in to post something similar. 5 seconds is far too short. Trvelling 14-15km at 100m/s is 2.5 minutes or so.. so jump delay should be a least 120 seconds, and you should not be able to disengage your autopilot until you have reached your waypoint.. meaning once your autopilot engages warp i a system, you can't diengage it until the next system. Travelling by autopilot SHOULD be heavily penalized.

Ingvar Angst
Amarr
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
Talocan United
Posted - 2011.08.25 13:29:00 - [11]
 

Oh for the love of the freakin' gods, quit *****ing about warp to zero and go find some PvP that doesn't involve defenseless ships warping into your camp with Hello Kitty wrapping paper taped to the hull.

Friggin weak people, WTF?!

Covert Kitty
Amarr
SRS Industries
SRS.
Posted - 2011.08.25 18:54:00 - [12]
 

Quote:
In five seconds? Can a tempest (those are still popular ganking ships, right?) even lock an industrial in five seconds?

Easily actually, it's not like you do much else with the mids, just put a sensor booster on. Industrials are not hard to lock quickly. 5 seconds is just a number I pulled out of a hat more or less, a little more may be needed. However generally you would want to gank on the other side of the gate, and not the side they are warping to. A small delay could also be added on the other side to ensure the oppertunity for most ships to lock in time.

Quote:
Sure, travelling is a major pain in the backside, but I think when transporting some valuable cargo you're entitled to take some better care of it than just setting the course and enabling the autopilot.

I agree completely, and you would be insane to transport valuable cargo, even if the warp to 10 was traded for a small delay, your not gaining any real safety over what there is currently.

Quote:
You also have to avoid gimping manual warp

AP's behavior would have nothing to do with manual warping, like the way it works now, it's just a question of how the AP flys.

Quote:
...go find some PvP that doesn't involve defenseless ships warping into your camp with Hello Kitty wrapping paper taped to the hull.

I don't have any problem with people suicide ganking ships in highsec, it adds an element of danger, which is important imo.

Quote:
Trvelling 14-15km at 100m/s is 2.5 minutes or so..
Travelling by autopilot SHOULD be heavily penalized.

Why should it be heavily penalized? You say that as if thats something that should be just taken for granted. You are primarally penalized by the fact that you don't have control of your ship, adding the delays ensures that any competent suicide ganker can have their way with you. Consider the difference between an AP covops transport, and a manually flown one, (currently, or with my proposed changes) you just dont do it if you have something valuable, nothing there changes.

I am suggesting however, that larger ships, which are already slower to align and warp, should not be flat out sqrewed by the AP. Which is the way it is now, as you said, for a large ship it takes minnutes for it to reach the gate, essentially making the trip 3-4 times longer than it would be under manual controal. That is excessive in my opionion, esspecially because its such a boring and repetative activity.

The travel time under AP should be just as risky as it is now, but should not take significantly longer than manual travel.

Newt Rondanse
Posted - 2011.08.25 18:59:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Covert Kitty

Quote:
Welcome to 2007, or maybe 2006. It's a dead issue.
Personally, I think that the AP is too aggressive, and should be warping to 25km just to be safe.

Old issue, which I think deserves a second look. Ask yourself this: whats the benefit, to anyone, of the AP warping to 10km or more. It's repetitive and boring, and for larger ships basically impossibly slow. If CCP isn't going to implement some actual gameplay around this mechanic I would rather use the travel time to an op staging system to get some water, make some food, etc.


I got that link from Commonly Posted Ideas in the anchor list.

You aren't the first person to try to make this case, and unless you think you have a particularly compelling case that hasn't been made previously you might consider preserving your dignity and just letting it drop.

At the very least go through that thread and see what arguments have been made before, to save yourself some time.

SpawnSupreme
Posted - 2011.08.26 02:31:00 - [14]
 

i would all for the idea of warping to 0 if and only if the client is capable to sence mouse movement or key punches....
for example im multi boxing and my freighter is becoming an annoyance to me when i have other client running market orders and other client running missions and other client chatting in recruitment channel its hard to watch your freighter effieciently travel so long as you show any mouse or key activity much like how you wake your computer from power saver mode, if you show recent activity each jump it will allow jump to 0 if no activity is made in a jump it defaults back to 15km

Commander IceQ
Caldari
Spit and Ductape Maintenance
Trade Wind Commodities
Posted - 2011.08.26 09:01:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: SpawnSupreme
i would all for the idea of warping to 0 if and only if the client is capable to sence mouse movement or key punches....
for example im multi boxing and my freighter is becoming an annoyance to me when i have other client running market orders and other client running missions and other client chatting in recruitment channel its hard to watch your freighter effieciently travel so long as you show any mouse or key activity much like how you wake your computer from power saver mode, if you show recent activity each jump it will allow jump to 0 if no activity is made in a jump it defaults back to 15km


Sooo... basically it will just always be flying at the default (15km ap), since the Freighter client doesn't have focus. I also have a Freighter, I Run up to 4 clients at a time, and (although annoying) I have never flown that ship in AP. Even if it is empty I still fly it manually. Because it just goes a lot quicker. OP needs a 2nd account/hobby/book/PSP/etc to keep them busy. :)

Rina Asanari
Posted - 2011.08.29 07:24:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: SpawnSupreme
i would all for the idea of warping to 0 if and only if the client is capable to sence mouse movement or key punches....
for example im multi boxing and my freighter is becoming an annoyance to me when i have other client running market orders and other client running missions and other client chatting in recruitment channel its hard to watch your freighter effieciently travel so long as you show any mouse or key activity much like how you wake your computer from power saver mode, if you show recent activity each jump it will allow jump to 0 if no activity is made in a jump it defaults back to 15km


Two words -- keyboard macros.

It wouldn't be much difference between that and completely macroing well-traveled paths.


Face it, travelling over long distances is mind-numbing, especially in HiSec space. Either you put your trust in your autopilot or simply swallow it and travel by hand.

Another idea would be something like "assisted piloting", meaning that the ship's computer gives some (audible) messages like "reaching stargate in five seconds" but doesn't interfere with the flying. That way the pilot has enough time to wake up (sometimes literally) to initiate the next jump and warp to the next gate on the route.

steave435
Caldari
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2011.08.29 07:59:00 - [17]
 

Quote:
Ask yourself this: whats the benefit, to anyone, of the AP warping to 10km or more.

It's beneficial for the guy that makes isk by hauling stuff out to remote areas where it's too much effort for people to go to a hub and selling it there for a markup.

Originally by: Shieko Chan
Quote:
It is my opinion that there is little to no gameplay benefit to having the AP warp to 0. Instead, let's replace it with a 5 sec delay before the AP activates a gate. This delay would provide the time pirates need to scan a target and decide to gank it or not (which would then happen on the other side of the gate).


huh, cuz pirates need a fool proof way to always scan every ship that comes by.... so lets make things easier for the poor hobos.

When that ship is autopiloting, yes Wink

Quote:
However generally you would want to gank on the other side of the gate, and not the side they are warping to

No. That may work for haulers/freighters, but frigates/shuttles can't be locked in time.

Quote:
AP's behavior would have nothing to do with manual warping, like the way it works now, it's just a question of how the AP flys.

Yes it does, one common use of the AP function is to warp to a gate, right click -> add as first waypoint and then activate autopilot so you warp to 0 and then jump when you land.

Quote:
I am suggesting however, that larger ships, which are already slower to align and warp, should not be flat out sqrewed by the AP. Which is the way it is now, as you said, for a large ship it takes minnutes for it to reach the gate, essentially making the trip 3-4 times longer than it would be under manual controal. That is excessive in my opionion, esspecially because its such a boring and repetative activity.

That's not excessive at all, if anything it should be longer. By autopiloting, you get something for nothing by having your goods/ship moved without having to do anything yourself. That applies to empty ships/characters you just want to get somewhere else and Orcas with cargo in corp hangar/sma too, where ganking isn't an issue even on AP.

Quote:
Another idea would be something like "assisted piloting", meaning that the ship's computer gives some (audible) messages like "reaching stargate in five seconds" but doesn't interfere with the flying. That way the pilot has enough time to wake up (sometimes literally) to initiate the next jump and warp to the next gate on the route.

The "autopilot jumping" we have now works fine though.

Jint Hikaru
OffWorld Exploration Inc
Posted - 2011.08.29 10:04:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: SpawnSupreme
i would all for the idea of warping to 0 if and only if the client is capable to sence mouse movement or key punches....
for example im multi boxing and my freighter is becoming an annoyance to me when i have other client running market orders and other client running missions and other client chatting in recruitment channel its hard to watch your freighter effieciently travel so long as you show any mouse or key activity much like how you wake your computer from power saver mode, if you show recent activity each jump it will allow jump to 0 if no activity is made in a jump it defaults back to 15km


This is easily bypassed by buying a wiggler (a usb device that when plugged in, it wiggles the mouse back and forth by a pixel, so you can still use the mouse, but the computer thinks the mouse is constantly active even when the user isnt touching the mouse)

Autoilot is fins as it is.... nothing in the game should be as easy and safe AFK as it is when you are activly playing.


 

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