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Furista Atkins
Posted - 2011.08.24 18:06:00 - [1]
 

Hey guys,

So I'm out in WH space, and killing sleeper is all fun and games for me, but i want more DPS. To do any real damage with my Raven, i need torps, but of course, staying in spider shield tank range and getting within 25km to the sleeper BS is unlikely in c5 space, so i have to resort to Cruise Missiles.

I am curious though, the Rokh can have a hellavah tank with my BS and Shield lvl 5 skills, and I do have skills for projectile turrets trained pretty nicely. I was wondering, if it may be possible to fit 7 large arti's (8th high would be shield transfer for spider tank) to help with the DPS while allowing me to still be 55km away from those damn sleepers. If I'm alpha'd, having the arti's will free up tons of cap to run booster and I could even probably save my fleet the cap to spider rep me.

Am i thinking right here? I know the Rokh has hybrid bonus, but lets be honest, blasters cant reach 55km, and rails suck (damn you caldari!) but the resistances, and the dps it can unleash with those guns is still quit enticing.. Please get me your opinion and if possible a fit?

Thanks

Aamrr
Posted - 2011.08.24 18:10:00 - [2]
 

It would probably work decently. I'd be more inclined to use a Tempest (it actually gets utility highs, so you don't have to sacrifice turrets to get RR), but I suppose a Rokh would work.

I'd file it under "not a great idea, but not a terrible one either." If it fits your skills, give it a shot?

Furista Atkins
Posted - 2011.08.24 18:13:00 - [3]
 

Edited by: Furista Atkins on 24/08/2011 18:16:42
yeah yeah, ROFL, thats a good file to put it in ;)

Also, tempest would be fine with me also - if we were armor tankers.. Maelstrom maybe? but to be honest, I dont have Minnies BS lvl 5 yet..

Aamrr
Posted - 2011.08.24 18:21:00 - [4]
 

What's wrong with shield tanking a tempest? I've been in w-space corps that did it all the time.

Furista Atkins
Posted - 2011.08.24 18:33:00 - [5]
 

Well - with Cardari lvl 5 skills, the Rokh has huge advantage with resistances. Plus, Rokh also has an extra mid for that kick in the shields. My Min BS skills are only at 3.. so i would get a little extra bonus damage.. it's a tossup..

Aamrr
Posted - 2011.08.24 18:49:00 - [6]
 

Fair enough. I had assumed your Minnie and Caldari BS skills were approximately equal.

Jack Tronic
Posted - 2011.08.24 18:53:00 - [7]
 

Keep in mind when it comes to BS pve in wspace, you are only dealing 30% of the damage that EFT is saying mainly because optimals, falloff, tracking, sig will pretty much destroy most of it before the sleeper resists.

Furista Atkins
Posted - 2011.08.24 19:04:00 - [8]
 

well - i mainly ask this question on here to talk about a previous character in my corp who had a maelstrom with 1400mm. He was dealing around 4k damage per volly at the sleeper BS's at 55km. My cruises were only doing about 400 a volly. Granted i was shooting much faster than him, he still was dealing nearly double, if not tripple the dps i was.

Jacob Stov
Posted - 2011.08.24 19:15:00 - [9]
 

Well, if you like the resist bonus I would like to point you towards the navy Scorp. It has an utility highslot, excellent shield HP ontop of the resist bonus and even better, it doesn't need a co-processor to fit large shield x-fer. And plenty of medslots for everything you want...
Only disadvantage is the price of the hull.

Furista Atkins
Posted - 2011.08.24 19:19:00 - [10]
 

Rofl, your right. dont got the cash for that right now. If you're willing to offer however.. :)

Jacob Stov
Posted - 2011.08.24 19:47:00 - [11]
 

Well, they came quite a bit down in prices. Just checked contracts, around 300 mill. If you already purchased a Rokh hull it is a possible fit. But how do you come to the conclusion, the DPS of 7 Artilleries is better then the DPS of 6 CM launchers from a Raven ? Not even paper-DPS is on par.
Plus you can get your desired 55 km range with Javelin torps + riggs, if you prefer torps.
One really annoying thing about the Rokh is it's scanres. Will take ages to lock targets.

Furista Atkins
Posted - 2011.08.24 19:55:00 - [12]
 

55km Range with torps? How so? can you throw me or point me to a fit that will allow me throw torps that far?

Jacob Stov
Posted - 2011.08.24 20:16:00 - [13]
 

Javelin Torps + rocket fuel cache (rigg) + hydraulic bay trusters (rigg) => 60,3 km range in EFT, ~57-58 km effective range. Basicly what you find on a typical Golem fitting. Leaves you with one riggslot for field extender or whatever you prefer.

Furista Atkins
Posted - 2011.08.24 20:35:00 - [14]
 

i see that now. But with those rigs, i will be sacrificing a lot of shields on my raven. hmm.. decisions..

Exploited Engineer
Posted - 2011.08.24 20:49:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Jacob Stov
Javelin Torps + rocket fuel cache (rigg) + hydraulic bay trusters (rigg) => 60,3 km range in EFT, ~57-58 km effective range. Basicly what you find on a typical Golem fitting. Leaves you with one riggslot for field extender or whatever you prefer.


You'll probably want a flare rig if you're using torps ... and squeeze a TP into the fitting somehow.

Furista Atkins
Posted - 2011.08.24 21:38:00 - [16]
 

Yeah i dont know if this is going to be really possible with a raven. Cruise missiles just dont cut it. Volly DPS isnt great and to make the torps long enough range - you will be sacrificing mids for TP's and rigs for range, taking away Cap boosters/cap/hardeners. I'll try out the Rokh and report back with what i find ;)

Dorian Wylde
Posted - 2011.08.24 22:31:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Aamrr
What's wrong with shield tanking a tempest? I've been in w-space corps that did it all the time.


Hell, I use a shield tanked typhoon before. If you're not soloing, all that matters is the fleet composition, and whether you have enough buffer, which is easy to do even with 4 mids and 3 rigs.

The whole point of tech 1 ships is customization and options.

Dr Cedric
Caldari
Orbital Industry and Research.
Posted - 2011.08.25 01:13:00 - [18]
 

Here's a comparison:
[Rokh, New Setup 1 Blaster]
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Damage Control II

Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range
Caldari Navy X-Large Shield Booster
Shield Boost Amplifier II
Photon Scattering Field II
Invulnerability Field II
Cap Recharger II

Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L
Large S95a Partial Shield Transporter

Large Core Defence Field Extender I
Large Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I

674 DPS at 24+30 with Null and drones

-OR-
[Rokh, New Setup 1 Proj.]
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Damage Control II

Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range
Caldari Navy X-Large Shield Booster
Shield Boost Amplifier II
Photon Scattering Field II
Invulnerability Field II
Cap Recharger II

800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
Large S95a Partial Shield Transporter

Large Core Defence Field Extender I
Large Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I

656 Damage at 4.2+46 with drones

I'd personally go with the Blaster set-up, even though its much more cap intensive. Also, if you go pure buffer on the Rokh and drop the XL booster, it will free up all of the cap. Besides, isn't that what spider tanking is? Maybe have a few of your guys bring Cap x-fers to keep the Shield x-fers running? Haven't been in WH in a while though, so I'm prolly out of practice!





Zoe Ardent
Posted - 2011.08.25 06:10:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Furista Atkins
well - i mainly ask this question on here to talk about a previous character in my corp who had a maelstrom with 1400mm. He was dealing around 4k damage per volly at the sleeper BS's at 55km. My cruises were only doing about 400 a volly. Granted i was shooting much faster than him, he still was dealing nearly double, if not tripple the dps i was.

That's not right, a ravn should do much more than 400 dmg a volly. I guess you have a bad setup, have you tried cruise missiles + 3 BCS + 3 rigors rigs + painter if you have the room ?

Sunviking
Posted - 2011.08.25 08:32:00 - [20]
 

Edited by: Sunviking on 25/08/2011 08:32:22
Hi,

I would seriously consider a SNI if I were you. It is hands down one of the best battleships for dealing with sleepers. While its DPS is the same as a Raven's, its tank and midslots are what make it superior at killing sleepers over most other battleships. Killing sleepers is more about tank and efficient logistics (i.e more EHP regenerated due to good shield resists) than it is about individual DPS of ships.

The prices are now below 300million I think, so easily affordable. DON'T use an RNI for sleepers, it has problems with tank without that resist bonus and your logi will spend forever trying to repair your shields.

Sun

Furista Atkins
Posted - 2011.08.25 15:58:00 - [21]
 

Edited by: Furista Atkins on 25/08/2011 15:59:19
hey Dr Cedric,

I see what your saying about the Blaster and i agree with you 100%. Again, the reason i am wanting to do this setup is to save cap.. Our fleets are usually small (~5 BS/BC) and we do great with just shield transfers.. But, we are all cab stable for the most part. If not, we are running out of booster about 3/4 the way threw the site. Dont get me wrong, I'm all for cap boosters, but if I'm primary, i hate having to turn off guns just to maintain a shield booster. Luckily, on my raven, i have a cap stable shield booster fit that requires no booster and resistances around 85%, I hardly need to get reps from the team and i rather they just save the cap for someone that does. I want the same thing, just more damage. If i have to sacrifice that 30dps for a completely cap stable shield, that sounds good to me :)

Furista Atkins
Posted - 2011.08.25 16:02:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Sunviking
Edited by: Sunviking on 25/08/2011 08:32:22
Hi,

I would seriously consider a SNI if I were you. It is hands down one of the best battleships for dealing with sleepers. While its DPS is the same as a Raven's, its tank and midslots are what make it superior at killing sleepers over most other battleships. Killing sleepers is more about tank and efficient logistics (i.e more EHP regenerated due to good shield resists) than it is about individual DPS of ships.

The prices are now below 300million I think, so easily affordable. DON'T use an RNI for sleepers, it has problems with tank without that resist bonus and your logi will spend forever trying to repair your shields.

Sun


Yeah, We do agree with you also, just, 300mil is out of my price range atm.. Soon though, so very soon ;)

Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
Posted - 2011.08.25 16:26:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Furista Atkins
I was wondering, if it may be possible to fit 7 large arti's (8th high would be shield transfer for spider tank) to help with the DPS while allowing me to still be 55km away from those damn sleepers. If I'm alpha'd, having the arti's will free up tons of cap to run booster and I could even probably save my fleet the cap to spider rep me.

Am i thinking right here? I know the Rokh has hybrid bonus, but lets be honest, blasters cant reach 55km, and rails suck (damn you caldari!) but the resistances, and the dps it can unleash with those guns is still quit enticing.. Please get me your opinion and if possible a fit? Thanks


Rokh with 7x 425 mm rails and triple MFS: 564 DPS at 54/30 km with 0.01203 tracking.
Rokh with 7x 1400 mm arty and triple gyro: 528 DPS at 30/44 km with 0.01125 tracking, or 379 DPS at 60/44 km and 0.0135 tracking.

So the rail Rokh has either 6.8% more DPS with 6.9% better tracking at greater range, or 48.8% more DPS but 11% less tracking at the same range. Hmmm.

The only other issue is, as you acknowledge, cap. The EFT fits I used had cap boosters - heavy on the rail fit and med on the artillery one. I don't know whether that would work in a C5 though.

Incidentally - quad-BCS Raven with Fury Cruise does 611 DPS, or 549 DPS with CN.


Jacob Stov
Posted - 2011.08.25 16:56:00 - [24]
 

From what I understand from the opening post, it is about volley damage, not DPS. Still 400 volley with cruise missiles is somewhat on the low side. I guess said Raven is fitted with tons of power dignostics/other cap thingies and not ballistic controls if the emphasis is cap stability.
*shrug* Even on a Torp fitting I get shield x-fer + energy x-fer fitted on a Raven, but I guess there would be no partner for swapping cap.

Blacksquirrel
Posted - 2011.08.25 19:08:00 - [25]
 

Edited by: Blacksquirrel on 25/08/2011 19:11:46
I wonder how a passive tanked rohk would perform? Plenty of slots for extenders and relays/rechargers. Not like the weapons bonus for rails etc adds anything dps wise. Maybe a couple of purgers so you can add more gyros to the lows instead?

Also remember arty isnt about the dps... It's about the alpha and pop em range.

Sunviking
Posted - 2011.08.25 19:54:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Blacksquirrel
Edited by: Blacksquirrel on 25/08/2011 19:11:46
I wonder how a passive tanked rohk would perform? Plenty of slots for extenders and relays/rechargers. Not like the weapons bonus for rails etc adds anything dps wise. Maybe a couple of purgers so you can add more gyros to the lows instead?

Also remember arty isnt about the dps... It's about the alpha and pop em range.


Indeed. And as EHP of sleeper battleships are so high, you need a fleet of ArtyRokhs in order to alpha them...

Sunviking
Posted - 2011.08.25 20:13:00 - [27]
 

Edited by: Sunviking on 25/08/2011 20:16:00
Edited by: Sunviking on 25/08/2011 20:14:34
I have knocked something up on EFT, and this is the result. Bear in mind I don't use Projectile Weaponry myself (I am a missile speciaist). You might be better sticking to Railguns though... Shocked

This fit is manageable with Advanced Weapon Upgrades 4

Lows
3 x Gyrostabiliser II
2 x Power Diagnostic System II

Mids
1 x Shield Boost Amplifier II
1 x X-Large Shield Booster II
1 x Photon Scattering Field II
2 x Invulnerability Field II
1 x Tracking Computer II

Highs
7 x 1400mm Howitzer II
1 x Large S95a Partial Shield Transporter

Rigs
1 x Large Ancillary Current Router II
1 x Large Cap Control Circuit II
1 x Large Cap Control Circuit I

Furista Atkins
Posted - 2011.08.25 20:30:00 - [28]
 

Edited by: Furista Atkins on 25/08/2011 20:33:27
Edited by: Furista Atkins on 25/08/2011 20:30:41
with my current skills, his is the best tank/dps possible i could make:

[Rokh, Rokh Proj 1]
'Portcullis' Reactor Control Unit I
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II

Invulnerability Field II
Ballistic Deflection Field II
Heat Dissipation Field II
Photon Scattering Field II
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II

1400mm 'Scout' Artillery I, Republic Fleet EMP L
1400mm 'Scout' Artillery I, Republic Fleet EMP L
1400mm 'Scout' Artillery I, Republic Fleet EMP L
1400mm 'Scout' Artillery I, Republic Fleet EMP L
1400mm 'Scout' Artillery I, Republic Fleet EMP L
1400mm 'Scout' Artillery I, Republic Fleet EMP L
1400mm 'Scout' Artillery I, Republic Fleet EMP L
Large S95a Partial Shield Transporter

Large Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II
Large Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II
Large Anti-Explosive Screen Reinforcer I

This has EHP 111,391 - Resistances of 84.1 / 80 / 85 / 80.6

cap stable, and i can run the shield transporter for 13m

7739 Volley damage, around 380dps at 39km+63

(This is much better than my current raven dps/tank build at only 190dps with cruises)

Jacob Stov
Posted - 2011.08.25 21:37:00 - [29]
 

So, you have enough cash for a T2 rigged Rokh, but not for a Navy Scorp Hull ? Razz
Something is wrong with your Raven setup/your skills. All 5 char, 6 cm launchers, 3 BCS, T1 missiles are 450 DPS and ~3k volley.




AMatay
Posted - 2011.08.25 23:51:00 - [30]
 

how can 300m be out of your price range if your living in a wormhole? especially a c5 one? i was making a few hundred million a day living solo in a c2 wormhole with a static c2 and most of that came jsut from the PI setup.
if your livign in wh space and cant afford 300m ur doing it wrong


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