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Suitonia
Gallente
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2011.08.29 02:51:00 - [211]
 

Originally by: Ivoryman
Originally by: Metal Dude
FFS. you ******s along with CCP keep missing the fkn point. IT DON'T MATTER WHAT SHIP YOU BRING, WHOMEVER HAS MORE OF THOSE SHIPS WILL WIN!!! If it's not Titans, than it's SCs, than it's Dreads, Carriers, BS, BC, Frigs... The problem is fkn NAPs/Blobs, not the ships.




This. The problem started when alliances were implemented, and the number of standings an alliance could have were near unlimited. Limit the number of standings an alliance/corporation can have. If your overview fills up with neutrals you will not spend the time to check each before firing. Break up the napfest, make warfare more localized to your space and not a napfest blob that can roam the universe and do what a few players desire influence-wise.

Do not change any ship at all tbh.


There is nothing more hilarious than Metal Dude whining about blobs and napfests while being in the alliance with the current biggest napfest and blob in the game.

I don't think adding Arbitrary limits to how many alliances or corporations you can have blue will make any difference to the size of coalitions. And personally, I feel like adding in things like this which make the game harder, but only from a UI Perspective is a bad idea. There were big alliances/coalitions from before alliances were implemented into the game anyway. (FA / VA etc.). There are too many ways to get around it too, unless you feel like adding in tons of small stupid limiting rules, and in my opinion it will be just as annoying for smaller groups who have several smaller groups blue than it will be for massive mega-alliances to have each-other blue.

Ivoryman
Gallente
Silent Service Operations
Blanket Men
Posted - 2011.08.29 03:43:00 - [212]
 

Originally by: Suitonia
Originally by: Ivoryman
Originally by: Metal Dude
FFS. you ******s along with CCP keep missing the fkn point. IT DON'T MATTER WHAT SHIP YOU BRING, WHOMEVER HAS MORE OF THOSE SHIPS WILL WIN!!! If it's not Titans, than it's SCs, than it's Dreads, Carriers, BS, BC, Frigs... The problem is fkn NAPs/Blobs, not the ships.




This. The problem started when alliances were implemented, and the number of standings an alliance could have were near unlimited. Limit the number of standings an alliance/corporation can have. If your overview fills up with neutrals you will not spend the time to check each before firing. Break up the napfest, make warfare more localized to your space and not a napfest blob that can roam the universe and do what a few players desire influence-wise.

Do not change any ship at all tbh.


There is nothing more hilarious than Metal Dude whining about blobs and napfests while being in the alliance with the current biggest napfest and blob in the game.

I don't think adding Arbitrary limits to how many alliances or corporations you can have blue will make any difference to the size of coalitions. And personally, I feel like adding in things like this which make the game harder, but only from a UI Perspective is a bad idea. There were big alliances/coalitions from before alliances were implemented into the game anyway. (FA / VA etc.). There are too many ways to get around it too, unless you feel like adding in tons of small stupid limiting rules, and in my opinion it will be just as annoying for smaller groups who have several smaller groups blue than it will be for massive mega-alliances to have each-other blue.



I could expand on what I said a lot. Not going to be bothered really. Someone else may take it and run with it, so to speak. Just think about what I propose for a bit. Really. Yes there are ways to work around anything. Make it more of a hassle to do that (omg I cant just click and be friends *or similar laziness*) and huge power blocks will diminish eventually and the sand box will be more fun for everyone.

With that in mind (if players use their minds tbh), I would think sitting around thinking about how to 'balance' ships would be more time consuming/code intensive than a few simple changes to standings limits... which when you re-read the thread, the issue with most people seems to be the ability for one 'blue list' to field a stupid amount of the games highest-end ships in a conflict, thus declaring said ships 'OP' and in need of 'balancing'.

Just my opinion, and adding a different twist to a great discussion thread. Example: give an alliance 2-3 blue slots for alliance, 5-7 for blue non-alliance corps, get rid of red, orange (keep something for war for empire?) and forget 'balancing' ships so much ugh ..think more neutral and YARRRR!!

Curtis Mandeville
Gallente
Silent Service Operations
Blanket Men
Posted - 2011.08.29 03:52:00 - [213]
 

Originally by: Ivoryman
Originally by: Suitonia
Originally by: Ivoryman
Originally by: Metal Dude
FFS. you ******s along with CCP keep missing the fkn point. IT DON'T MATTER WHAT SHIP YOU BRING, WHOMEVER HAS MORE OF THOSE SHIPS WILL WIN!!! If it's not Titans, than it's SCs, than it's Dreads, Carriers, BS, BC, Frigs... The problem is fkn NAPs/Blobs, not the ships.




This. The problem started when alliances were implemented, and the number of standings an alliance could have were near unlimited. Limit the number of standings an alliance/corporation can have. If your overview fills up with neutrals you will not spend the time to check each before firing. Break up the napfest, make warfare more localized to your space and not a napfest blob that can roam the universe and do what a few players desire influence-wise.

Do not change any ship at all tbh.


There is nothing more hilarious than Metal Dude whining about blobs and napfests while being in the alliance with the current biggest napfest and blob in the game.

I don't think adding Arbitrary limits to how many alliances or corporations you can have blue will make any difference to the size of coalitions. And personally, I feel like adding in things like this which make the game harder, but only from a UI Perspective is a bad idea. There were big alliances/coalitions from before alliances were implemented into the game anyway. (FA / VA etc.). There are too many ways to get around it too, unless you feel like adding in tons of small stupid limiting rules, and in my opinion it will be just as annoying for smaller groups who have several smaller groups blue than it will be for massive mega-alliances to have each-other blue.



I could expand on what I said a lot. Not going to be bothered really. Someone else may take it and run with it, so to speak. Just think about what I propose for a bit. Really. Yes there are ways to work around anything. Make it more of a hassle to do that (omg I cant just click and be friends *or similar laziness*) and huge power blocks will diminish eventually and the sand box will be more fun for everyone.

With that in mind (if players use their minds tbh), I would think sitting around thinking about how to 'balance' ships would be more time consuming/code intensive than a few simple changes to standings limits... which when you re-read the thread, the issue with most people seems to be the ability for one 'blue list' to field a stupid amount of the games highest-end ships in a conflict, thus declaring said ships 'OP' and in need of 'balancing'.

Just my opinion, and adding a different twist to a great discussion thread. Example: give an alliance 2-3 blue slots for alliance, 5-7 for blue non-alliance corps, get rid of red, orange (keep something for war for empire?) and forget 'balancing' ships so much ugh ..think more neutral and YARRRR!!


I agree.

Viribus
Gallente
Broski Enterprises
Elite Space Guild
Posted - 2011.08.29 04:51:00 - [214]
 

Limiting standings is kind of a dumb, lazy fix.

The better solution would be to make the logistics of fleets exponentially more difficult and costly the larger they get, thereby allowing smaller and more maneuverable fleets to realistically pick off and inflict damage on more unwieldy fleets

And have sov targets vulnerable to guerilla warfare

But CCP would probably **** all that up anyway to maybe the standings limit is a safer bet

Thorian Baalnorn
Caldari
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Atlas.
Posted - 2011.08.29 05:48:00 - [215]
 

Edited by: Thorian Baalnorn on 29/08/2011 07:10:52
Originally by: Ivoryman
Da Quote pyramid



Ok here is the problem.

* I can counter 200 frigates.
* I can counter 200 cruisers.
* I can counter 200 battlecruisers.
* I can counter 200 battleships.
* I can counter 200 carriers and dreads.

.. All of these i can counter without using supers for all the reasons i cant counter 200 Scarriers.

* I CANNOT counter 200 super carriers.

Why?

* Because I dont have 200 super carrier pilots.
* Because they are immune to EWAR.
* Because they have a drone/fighter for every occasion.
* Because they can make their own cap out of thin air.
* Because they can have over 90% resist on the north side of 60 mil EHP with NO RESIST HOLES.
* Because they can spider tank literally till the end of time.
* Because they can put out 8000 DPS each WHILE Spider tanking and keeping each others cap topped off.
And finally

* Because they are by far the most overpowered ship in the game in a group. In fact in a group with skilled pvp pilots they are literally not stoppable except with an even bigger supercap fleet. The only effective counter to 200 Scarriers, besides 300 Scrarriers, is 200 Titans. Then WTF you counter the Titans with?


Scenario: You face 150 enemy Scarriers and 50 Titans.

*The group of Titans can do 150 million damage every 10 minutes with just DD. That pretty much insta pops an enemy SC or titan every 3-5 minutes( depending on how good your officer gear is).

* The SCarriers can put out 1,200,000 DPS a second. They can pop an enemy super every 2 minutes and im being really optomistic for their primaries here.

*WHILE they make out of nothing.... 65 cap every sec each or collectively can produce 9750 cap/sec just from remote transfer.Thus making all them immune to any type mass neuting.

*WHILE they can remote rep 45000 dps a second consistently because they can make cap out of nothing.You would have to consistently do AT LEAST 450k DPS just to counter the spider tanking at 90% resist and thats not even making any headway on the 60 mil EHP.

*They cannot be jammed, or dampened so they can target for these whoever they want as long they stay in a 25 KM radius of a center(anchor).

Meanwhile while they are LOLing and spidertanking you while playing XBOX their 2500-3000 fighter(bombers) are not only blotting out the sun but your life like a swarm of locusts.

Their is no other ships in the game that are this untouchable and the "* Because" above tells you why no other classes are this untouchable.

Are these ships overpowered? Grossly, because people use them as groups with little or no other support instead of as spearheads with other ships.Is it wrong? No just uncreative and boring to win pixels.


Should something be done to limit NAPFEST? Yes and no. Large battles should be encouraged but large permanent handholding BFF needs to go. How you achieve this and still make the game fun, i have not the slightest. But i would start with removing the reasons to napfest in the first place. And their are many aspects to sov that need to be addressed to discourage handholding and owning large swaths of space and renting it out to other alliances. But trying to limit an alliances friends is going to be tedious and overall not very effective. Instead you need to limit the need or want for friends.

SunburnedFrog
Caldari
Capital Systems INC
Shadow of xXDEATHXx
Posted - 2011.08.29 07:19:00 - [216]
 

Originally by: Thorian Baalnorn
Edited by: Thorian Baalnorn on 29/08/2011 07:10:52
Originally by: Ivoryman
Da Quote pyramid



Ok here is the problem.

* I can counter 200 frigates.
* I can counter 200 cruisers.
* I can counter 200 battlecruisers.
* I can counter 200 battleships.
* I can counter 200 carriers and dreads.

.. All of these i can counter without using supers for all the reasons i cant counter 200 Scarriers.

* I CANNOT counter 200 super carriers.

Why?

* Because I dont have 200 super carrier pilots.
* Because they are immune to EWAR.
* Because they have a drone/fighter for every occasion.
* Because they can make their own cap out of thin air.
* Because they can have over 90% resist on the north side of 60 mil EHP with NO RESIST HOLES.
* Because they can spider tank literally till the end of time.
* Because they can put out 8000 DPS each WHILE Spider tanking and keeping each others cap topped off.
And finally

* Because they are by far the most overpowered ship in the game in a group. In fact in a group with skilled pvp pilots they are literally not stoppable except with an even bigger supercap fleet. The only effective counter to 200 Scarriers, besides 300 Scrarriers, is 200 Titans. Then WTF you counter the Titans with?


Scenario: You face 150 enemy Scarriers and 50 Titans.

*The group of Titans can do 150 million damage every 10 minutes with just DD. That pretty much insta pops an enemy SC or titan every 3-5 minutes( depending on how good your officer gear is).

* The SCarriers can put out 1,200,000 DPS a second. They can pop an enemy super every 2 minutes and im being really optomistic for their primaries here.

*WHILE they make out of nothing.... 65 cap every sec each or collectively can produce 9750 cap/sec just from remote transfer.Thus making all them immune to any type mass neuting.

*WHILE they can remote rep 45000 dps a second consistently because they can make cap out of nothing.You would have to consistently do AT LEAST 450k DPS just to counter the spider tanking at 90% resist and thats not even making any headway on the 60 mil EHP.

*They cannot be jammed, or dampened so they can target for these whoever they want as long they stay in a 25 KM radius of a center(anchor).

Meanwhile while they are LOLing and spidertanking you while playing XBOX their 2500-3000 fighter(bombers) are not only blotting out the sun but your life like a swarm of locusts.

Their is no other ships in the game that are this untouchable and the "* Because" above tells you why no other classes are this untouchable.

Are these ships overpowered? Grossly, because people use them as groups with little or no other support instead of as spearheads with other ships.Is it wrong? No just uncreative and boring to win pixels.


Should something be done to limit NAPFEST? Yes and no. Large battles should be encouraged but large permanent handholding BFF needs to go. How you achieve this and still make the game fun, i have not the slightest. But i would start with removing the reasons to napfest in the first place. And their are many aspects to sov that need to be addressed to discourage handholding and owning large swaths of space and renting it out to other alliances. But trying to limit an alliances friends is going to be tedious and overall not very effective. Instead you need to limit the need or want for friends.


DERP

i can counter 200 supers its easy - just hire PL not to shoot you - its all about the isk baby

ScheenK
Gallente
Constantine.
Posted - 2011.08.29 07:34:00 - [217]
 

Originally by: Justyce Stargazer
Originally by: Snot Shot
I will take anyones mom if you don't want her...Neutral
.


Im sorry but snot shot cannot have the last word in any thread.....just saying.YARRRR!!

Anyways, an SC nerf is needed and most sane people can see that. Someone mentioned earlier defender missiles. How about coming out with another T2 variant of your standard destroyer that specializes in taking drones, fighters and fighter-bombers out? Give it a decent tank for it's size and allow it to decimate a supercarriers drones with bonuses that ONLY apply to killing drones, fighters and FB's . Not only would you give the sub-cap fleets a chance at taking down SC's, you would also give a boost to the lagging destroyer whose only real role in null sec atm is as an interdictor.
The only other viable option is a boost to the dread which also needs to happen.



this is actually one of the best ideas out of the thread, that and the one about reducing titan and sc jumprange and the materials needed to jump, but your are definetly on to something here m8 Cool

Andrejs L
Caldari
Constantine.
Posted - 2011.08.29 07:54:00 - [218]
 

create a peniz shaped ship

SunburnedFrog
Caldari
Capital Systems INC
Shadow of xXDEATHXx
Posted - 2011.08.29 08:02:00 - [219]
 

Originally by: Andrejs L
create a peniz shaped ship



thorax not good enough

Thorian Baalnorn
Caldari
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Atlas.
Posted - 2011.08.29 17:14:00 - [220]
 

Edited by: Thorian Baalnorn on 29/08/2011 17:19:45
Originally by: SunburnedFrog
Originally by: Andrejs L
create a peniz shaped ship



thorax not good enough


Try the Iteron V it kind of looks like a pistol grip dil.... dough








...... with ribs for extra pleasure maneuverability .

Centra Spike
Caldari
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2011.08.29 18:59:00 - [221]
 

I already posted the solution:

INSTANCED PVP

Sephiroth CloneIIV
Gallente
Rim Worlds Republic
Shadow of xXDEATHXx
Posted - 2011.08.29 20:26:00 - [222]
 

Originally by: Centra Spike
I already posted the solution:

INSTANCED PVP


Wut this is sandbox. If you want instanced pvp with small even numbers go to wot or black propocy. or within this game get out of the sov and focus on holding a npc station, or wormhole which seems to be where people go for the no local.


Cpt Tunguska
Minmatar
In for the Kill
Scooty Puff Junior Alliance
Posted - 2011.08.29 20:50:00 - [223]
 

Originally by: Centra Spike
I already posted the solution:

INSTANCED PVP


Na....we dont really need instances, if the nerf will be done properly Cool Rumors say titans will lose their DD completly....and supercapitals in general will recieve a huge hp reduction This would actually solve the issue.

Headerman
Minmatar
Quovis
Shadow of xXDEATHXx
Posted - 2011.08.29 22:03:00 - [224]
 

Well the latest changes to the SCs are up ont he test server.

Narisa Bithon
Caldari
The Motley Crew Reborn
Warped Aggression
Posted - 2011.08.29 22:30:00 - [225]
 

Originally by: White Tree
DEATH TO SUPERCAPS.

DEATH TO TITANS.


+1 to this ieda

m3rb3aSt
Minmatar
Advanced Component Research Enterprise
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.08.30 02:18:00 - [226]
 

Edited by: m3rb3aSt on 30/08/2011 02:19:06
Having random limitations is the dumbest **** ever. How about we just nerf the stupid ships.

The reason that battleship fleets should be superior is that they allow anyone to have a chance. It would easy to move into 0.0 when all you mostly need is a battleship fleet and some capital and sub BS support. It would also help out the new guys. I'm sure a lot of empire corps could field a fleet of 400 battleships. Now if those battleships counter supercapitals then guess who can gain some nice 0.0 space :3

The only people who are against a nerf and are the most vocal are the people who are using supercaps. Luckily CCP can see through all of the bull****.

nMeh
Caldari
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2011.08.30 04:53:00 - [227]
 

One Supercap at 15bil isk/500 USD is equivalent to 150 battleships in cost just for the ship (not to mention character cost). However one supercap can easily die to 30 battleships. If anything supercaps need a MASSIVE boost to be cost effective.

If Supers are all powerful -- Fight a PL subcap fleet with only your supercap fleet. We will see who wins.

Just like in hon where all PL non eurotz players have mmr above 1950+, we also tend to only win in EVE. If we lose its because Jogyn was the puppetmaster instead of BH at the time. There is a reason why Jogyn has never broke 1900 mmr while BH has invented everything in EVE.

Grath Telkin
Amarr
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2011.08.30 05:00:00 - [228]
 

Originally by: m3rb3aSt
Edited by: m3rb3aSt on 30/08/2011 02:19:06
Having random limitations is the dumbest **** ever. How about we just nerf the stupid ships.

The reason that battleship fleets should be superior is that they allow anyone to have a chance. It would easy to move into 0.0 when all you mostly need is a battleship fleet and some capital and sub BS support. It would also help out the new guys. I'm sure a lot of empire corps could field a fleet of 400 battleships. Now if those battleships counter supercapitals then guess who can gain some nice 0.0 space :3

The only people who are against a nerf and are the most vocal are the people who are using supercaps. Luckily CCP can see through all of the bull****.


This is a good idea at heart, for a game with several million subscribers.

Unfortunately EVE has like, 350k if we're lucky, and most of those have been playing for years.

So if all you need in 0.0 is a BS, then all your old vets have NOTHING to train for and they quit, taking 2 or 3 accounts with them, and the game dies.

Supercaps were put in so that people who have been playing for years have something super skill intensive to train for, and that long grinding train has a reward at the end, a super bad ass space ship.

So its either you keep the guys who've been playing and paying for 5+ years, or you keep the scrub crowd that burns out and unsubs after 8 months.

Luckily, CCP thinks with their wallet.

Centra Spike
Caldari
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2011.08.30 05:08:00 - [229]
 

Originally by: m3rb3aSt

The only people who are against a nerf and are the most vocal are the people who are using supercaps. Luckily CCP can see through all of the bull****.


The only people who are for a nerf and are the most vocal are the people who are using massive blobs of subcaps and are unwilling to commit their supercaps, even after they win the subcap fight.

But I guess if you killed a bunch of unsupported supers within the current game mechanics your would have nothing to whine about.

Viribus
Gallente
Broski Enterprises
Elite Space Guild
Posted - 2011.08.30 05:36:00 - [230]
 

Originally by: Grath Telkin
Originally by: m3rb3aSt
Edited by: m3rb3aSt on 30/08/2011 02:19:06
Having random limitations is the dumbest **** ever. How about we just nerf the stupid ships.

The reason that battleship fleets should be superior is that they allow anyone to have a chance. It would easy to move into 0.0 when all you mostly need is a battleship fleet and some capital and sub BS support. It would also help out the new guys. I'm sure a lot of empire corps could field a fleet of 400 battleships. Now if those battleships counter supercapitals then guess who can gain some nice 0.0 space :3

The only people who are against a nerf and are the most vocal are the people who are using supercaps. Luckily CCP can see through all of the bull****.


This is a good idea at heart, for a game with several million subscribers.

Unfortunately EVE has like, 350k if we're lucky, and most of those have been playing for years.

So if all you need in 0.0 is a BS, then all your old vets have NOTHING to train for and they quit, taking 2 or 3 accounts with them, and the game dies.

Supercaps were put in so that people who have been playing for years have something super skill intensive to train for, and that long grinding train has a reward at the end, a super bad ass space ship.

So its either you keep the guys who've been playing and paying for 5+ years, or you keep the scrub crowd that burns out and unsubs after 8 months.

Luckily, CCP thinks with their wallet.


Makes perfect sense, after all everyone flies supers on their main

Thorian Baalnorn
Caldari
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Atlas.
Posted - 2011.08.30 06:29:00 - [231]
 

Originally by: nMeh
One Supercap at 15bil isk/500 USD is equivalent to 150 battleships in cost just for the ship (not to mention character cost). However one supercap can easily die to 30 battleships. If anything supercaps need a MASSIVE boost to be cost effective.........





Performance does not scale to cost in video games. In every game i have played including this one their have been diminishing returns on performance.

Take any mods that have officer variants. T1 may cost 50k isk, T2 may give a 10% performance boost and cost 1 mil isk, and officer may give a 10% performance boost over T2 and cost 2 BIL isk. You want performance to scale to cost( which doesnt work in a free market system anyway) which is ridiculously absurd.

This goes for real life merchandise as well. I have an i7 quad core, I can buy an i7 quad core extreme for twice as much money but i dont get twice the performance.

Scarriers are ridiculously overpowered( see my above post with all the "*") when they are group together. CCP never intended people to fly 200 Scrarriers in one group and pulverize everything.


Quote:
This is a good idea at heart, for a game with several million subscribers. Unfortunately EVE has like, 350k if we're lucky, and most of those have been playing for years. So if all you need in 0.0 is a BS, then all your old vets have NOTHING to train for and they quit, taking 2 or 3 accounts with them, and the game dies........


You shouldnt be able to dominate all of 0.0 at your whim with one class of ship either. Who is going to fight a lopsided fight constantly( again see my post a few post up about Scarriers). I know for a fact that what the napfest are doing is the downward spiral to a games demise. Been there done that. People find something that is overpowered in a large group then blob it until they pretty much run the whole server. Everyone else who is somewhat trying to play the game like they arent trying to win a MMO get tired of it and quit. Some join the blob. The server population continues to decline until even the blobbers find a different game. Game is gone. Rinse and repeat.


On the other hand you have valid point. You shouldn't be able to take over eve in 10 battleships either. But that isnt an issue is it? No the issue is taking over eve in 200-300-400-500-600 supers that have ZERO vulnerability in a decent size group. Again i will direct you to my post above. NO other ship in a group of 200 comes even close to be as powerful not even titans. Because titans dont put out 8k dps steadily while making infinite cap out of thin air while spider tanking >600k DPS. I mean seriously you cant get any closer to god mode in this game unless your a GM in a GM ship.


If i bring 300 BS to fight 200 Scarriers i should be able to get at least one Scarrier kill before those scarriers wipe out the entire fleet. 300 BS pushing 1000 DPS each wont even break a spider tank on 200 scarriers. In fact 50 of those could go home and your still more than safe.

To break a coordinated spider tank on 200 Scrarriers you would need 600 BS at 1000 DPS at least. And as soon as you lose a few you have 0 chance of breaking that tank and thats not going to take long with >2500 drones/fighters swarming the BSes.

Centra Spike
Caldari
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2011.08.30 07:16:00 - [232]
 

How many 200+ supercapital fleets have you been in?

Probably none since your alliance just ordered all supercapitals move to lowsec and stay logged off.

Captain Thunk
Amarr
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2011.08.30 12:53:00 - [233]
 

Ahhh, I have fond memories of the beginning of the SupercapWarz.

The likes of Atlas. proudly reminding people of the sheer volume of capitals they could field at one time. They began to do the same with Supercaps, but unfortunately corruption at the top slowed the necessary progress so when it came to the crunch their enemies had more supercaps. To resolve this they went to low sec, logged off and have been crying ever since about how overpowered supercaps are.

It is truly delightful to see people complain this way when at one time they had envisioned themselves as king of the hill and had no problem with it.

Cpt Tunguska
Minmatar
In for the Kill
Scooty Puff Junior Alliance
Posted - 2011.08.30 12:56:00 - [234]
 

Originally by: Centra Spike
How many 200+ supercapital fleets have you been in?

Probably none since your alliance just ordered all supercapitals move to lowsec and stay logged off.


This makes perfect sense. If you cant counter the epic hostile supercapblob in numbers, you cant, in fact, use your own supercaps. It would just cause the loss of all your own supers for nothing in return. Supercaps are so terribly designed that there arent any smart moves or hard decisions which can turn a fight, if outnumbered. Its all about who got the biggest supercap blob and most DDs/time.

Thats exactly what we se. We have the napblob supercap elite pvp group owning everything, while the rest of eve is forced to logoff and see everything burning.

Also keep in mind that capital ships are very mobile. So for instance if youre just fighting a small fraction af the hostile superblob.....Even then you cant use your supers, cause within short time all other superblob entities will also form fleets and drop into the fight via cyno. Just as example: Even if evoke is doing something with 20ish supers in Delve, you cant attack it with your own supers, even if you got 40 ready.
Cause what will almost surely happen is that russians, raiden, NCdot etc. supers will also drop in every decent fight. They are just 2 regions away. Even pl in the north could be moving a fleet with like 5-6 Midcynos. A decent fight will last hours, so they got all time the need to move a couple of cynos.
A decent super napblob can literally scare whole evemap into logoff, cause they can move everywhere in-time.

Battleships and other support ships are very different from that stupid supercap mechanic. They cant be moved that fast around via cyno and even if youre outnumbered....there are plenty of moves, tactics and decisions possible to negate a possible number disadvantage. In a subcapital (capital) fight everything is possible. Bombers, logis, Ab sigtanking, sniping, mid range sniping,close range, drakesdpamming, MWD kiting, tenguing....etc. Theres alot of rock, paper, scissors involved.... and clever fleetmovement, probing and warpins will decide every fight.

Supercaps would just be cynoed on grid and would melt everythign with DDs/etc. 250 km around, while they are mostly invulnerable themselves. Alot of ppl (mostly in npc space Laughing ) looking forward to this supercapnerf. If nothing will happen, eve would go down the drain. You end up having one huge blob group and rest of the server would either join them or just quit. Nothing interesting would happen anymore. I mean right now just 2 coalitions were left. 1 coalition is unable to do anything vs. the superspam. Within a year 0.0 space turned into a very boring enviroment, where just 1 entity is viable. Before the Dominion supercapbuff we had like 6+ viable coalition on map. This Dominion supercapblob is like a swarm of locusts, eating everything and turning everything behind them into dead, barren land. And no one can ever stop them.

Master Zeuth
Gallente
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2011.08.30 13:39:00 - [235]
 

tl;dr

Mad alliances with huge blobs of poor, low SP pilots getting mad at the alliances with small blobs of wealthy, high SP pilots who have supers.


If you think supers are so OP, get some of your own.

Cpt Tunguska
Minmatar
In for the Kill
Scooty Puff Junior Alliance
Posted - 2011.08.30 13:48:00 - [236]
 

Edited by: Cpt Tunguska on 30/08/2011 13:49:06
Originally by: Master Zeuth
tl;dr

Mad alliances with huge blobs of poor, low SP pilots getting mad at the alliances with small blobs of wealthy, high SP pilots who have supers.


Read it again.

And: Its always funny if a member o the biggest blobgroup eve ever had seen is complaining about blobs. In fact, pl shouldnt even talk about blobbing anymore, it lets you all look dumb.


Quote:
If you think supers are so OP, get some of your own


I got a Nyx. Well I guess I could also join one of the stupid super blob allies like pl, raiden or ncdot, but contrary to you I see how this ****s up eve.

Centra Spike
Caldari
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2011.08.30 15:46:00 - [237]
 

Confirming that PL will spend 40 billion ISK in fuel to move our entire capital fleet 5-6 mids to drop on someone's subcap ~goodfight~ because we're evil and abuse current mechanics.

There is a perfectly good mechanic in game to prevent supers/capital usage, it's called a cyno jammer. There were a lot of these things, you could even have your own supers/capitals IN system to protect them and we would be forced to go in with subcaps. But apparently your supers/capitals + 500 man subcap fleets can't stand up to ~elite pvp~.

Stop crying because you and your friends are bad at this game.

Cpt Tunguska
Minmatar
In for the Kill
Scooty Puff Junior Alliance
Posted - 2011.08.30 16:12:00 - [238]
 

Originally by: Centra Spike
Confirming that PL will spend 40 billion ISK in fuel to move our entire capital fleet 5-6 mids to drop on someone's subcap ~goodfight~ because we're evil and abuse current mechanics
.

I wrote about supercap engagements, and you would travel any distance to gank some supers. In fact you already did in the past. Just remember the MC Hel you wtfganked down south as you were basing up north. Guess you got intel that sorry MC had an OP planned and you rolled in...no matter what distance. You see, I have a point. Thats just what came in my mind, I guess there are more example.

And be honest: If there WOULD be a supercapital engagement in the south, YOU WOULD also come down with your blob.

Quote:
There is a perfectly good mechanic in game to prevent supers/capital usage, it's called a cyno jammer. There were a lot of these things, you could even have your own supers/capitals IN system to protect them and we would be forced to go in with subcaps. But apparently your supers/capitals + 500 man subcap fleets can't stand up to ~elite pvp~.


Na, this is pure bs. You cant defend jammers all the time over different timezones. A quick formup of 100 DMG battleships and logis...a titanportal....and any jammer will melt in like 5 minutes. Theres no chance, even for a quick response force. And once the jammer is down the supers will jump in and camp the system until sov is switched. Cynojammers are not what they once were. Cynojammer Pos' were decent in old times of sniping BS-fleets, before the rise of logistic ships, but now they are to easy to break.

Russians+blob do this all the time. Up north, vs. Atlas and vs. AAA. And also consider theres no possibility to get own caps/supers under the jammer, due to the jb nerf. Except its down, and then its too late. If you have alot stns to defend, youre lost from the beginning.

Just goons had succes with this due to pl beeing terrible. You focused alot on just one system, giving the goonies the option to amass everything they got in this single system. And tbh, over the months of coorperation with the russians you lost any ability to plan own, succesful operations. If you ever intended to break the goons, you should have asked the russians to support you. They would have shown you how easy it is to bypass jammers.



Quote:
Stop crying because you and your friends are bad at this game.


Confirmed, I'm terrible. I just got 10ooo pvp kills and 700 kills with my supercarrier. I clearly lack expierience. But hey at least we didnt lose 14 Titans to frekking NC withing a week.

Grath Telkin
Amarr
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2011.08.30 16:36:00 - [239]
 

Originally by: Thorian Baalnorn


If i bring 300 BS to fight 200 Scarriers i should be able to get at least one Scarrier kill before those scarriers wipe out the entire fleet. 300 BS pushing 1000 DPS each wont even break a spider tank on 200 scarriers. In fact 50 of those could go home and your still more than safe.

To break a coordinated spider tank on 200 Scrarriers you would need 600 BS at 1000 DPS at least. And as soon as you lose a few you have 0 chance of breaking that tank and thats not going to take long with >2500 drones/fighters swarming the BSes.


All this happens in a perfect world

And a perfect world would allow all of those Sueprs to stay close enough together for your math to work.

Unfortunately this is EVE, and supers have a tendency to bounce, hard, and far, at HUGE ridiculous speeds that make a vagabond jealous. So if you brought 200 BS, and actually had the balls to engage the super blob you're so scared of, you WOULD in fact be able to kill one with simple patience and watching for that dummy in the Nyx who bumps.

Also stop replying to the Scotty Puff nerd, he's obviously butthurt that at some point or other PL has removed him from his home, and he's going to bitter post about a standings list he has no information about and whine and ***** because his alliance is poor.

NO BIG DEAL.

Cpt Tunguska
Minmatar
In for the Kill
Scooty Puff Junior Alliance
Posted - 2011.08.30 16:45:00 - [240]
 

Originally by: Grath Telkin


Also stop replying to the Scotty Puff nerd, he's obviously butthurt that at some point or other PL has removed him from his home, and he's going to bitter post about a standings list he has no information about and whine and ***** because his alliance is poor.

NO BIG DEAL.


mad


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