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Carai an'Caldazar
Amarr
Oberon Incorporated
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2011.08.25 16:30:00 - [121]
 

Edited by: Carai an''Caldazar on 25/08/2011 16:51:16
I've always thought it would be nice to fix Supercarriers by removing their EWAR immunity, remove their Logistics bonuses, modify Fighter Bombers so they are useless against Battleships and below (enabling decision of Subcap (Fighter) or Capital (Fighter Bomber) fitting), reduce their EHP to about half of what it is now, and let them dock (maybe even cooler but harder to code, only dock in sovereignty controlled stations!).

Simple fixes to Carriers and Dreadnoughts might be Dreadnoughts receiving a x10 multiplier to damage on Structures (making people actually WANT to use these over supers to reinforce POS/TCU/Station/IHUB and reduce some of the tediousness that exists today, as well as let smaller entities with a few dreadnoughts wreak havoc in 1-2 siege cycles and evacuate before the blob arrives) and Carriers get the ability to use Fighter Bombers (evening the playing field, and if the above occurs and Supercarriers lose their logistical capability, Carriers become the end-all be-all in Logistics).

Regardless of what you do to fix the Supercapitals of EVE Online, they will effectively still remain a force to be reckoned with in large enough numbers. They are the pinnacle of achievement for a pilot to fly, and often times one of the few losses that actually are noticeable to an alliance (with Sovereignty and moons being the other noticeable losses). With the way EVE Online is today, being that many can throw Carriers into combat and not feel much/any pain at their losses, there does need to be something a step higher.

I'd like to see CCP do an elegant solution to the issue of Supercapitals. Just a few thoughts off the top of my head might include
* Reduce Jump Range of Supercapitals to something significant, such as 2.0au with JDC V (finally moving large ships/fleets would actually be challenging, slow, require planning, and achieve the goal of larger ships are not as mobile as smaller ones, and provide more opportunities for combat during transit as Supercapital POS chains for movement would become far too burdensome to operate)
* Remove EWAR immunity and replace with very high sensor strength (>200) and a natural warp core strength (+10)
* Remove the ability for Supercapitals to be remote repped (Armor/Shield/ENERGY)

I'm not saying that the above ideas should be implemented, but there is a whole realm of possibilities CCP could go with the balancing that could change the status quo.

CCP is at a very good place right now where the sky is the limit to their design direction. I hope whatever solution they choose to follow is not rushed, and fully thought through before implementation. Sure there is a massive force steamrolling half the galaxy right now, but if proper balance to the oft-stated rock-paper-scissors mentality of EVE ship warfare is nearly reached, this Winter could prove to be an amazingly fun time to be playing EVE. I think the vast majority of players would love to see combat evolve to a playstyle where Subcapital and Capital fleets must be reliant upon each other for Nullsec/Sovereignty warfare, and if CCP can achieve this and make blobbing the largest ships in the game a relatively futile/pointless endeavor, the game will be that much better for it.

Cpt Bunny
Gallente
Syndicated Systems
ROMANIAN-LEGION
Posted - 2011.08.25 16:56:00 - [122]
 

Think Rock , Paper, Scisors guys,

Supers just need a counter, thats all.

Solution:

Black Ops redesign: Heavy Bomb Launchers X 3-4 Can inflict heavy dmg to Supers and Titans only.
hitting a sub cap would have the effect of being hit by a normal bomb.

maybe at the same time, make defender missiles work again?

Alter the Black Ops build requirements to make use of a moon goo that is not in the north :)



Something along these lines would do the trick.

Carai an'Caldazar
Amarr
Oberon Incorporated
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2011.08.25 17:00:00 - [123]
 

Originally by: Cpt Bunny
Think Rock , Paper, Scisors guys,

Supers just need a counter, thats all.

Solution:

Black Ops redesign: Heavy Bomb Launchers X 3-4 Can inflict heavy dmg to Supers and Titans only.
hitting a sub cap would have the effect of being hit by a normal bomb.

maybe at the same time, make defender missiles work again?

Alter the Black Ops build requirements to make use of a moon goo that is not in the north :)



Something along these lines would do the trick.


So make an incredibly expensive, hard to train for ship be the counter to massive blobs of Supers... requiring in and of themselves MANY of these ships to have enough DPS to burn down a super, only to have the 40 Titans on grid to DD 40-billion ISK worth of ships every N-minutes?

I don't mean to be a hater, but this idea may not be fully thought through :)

Cpt Bunny
Gallente
Syndicated Systems
ROMANIAN-LEGION
Posted - 2011.08.25 17:05:00 - [124]
 

Originally by: Carai an'Caldazar
Originally by: Cpt Bunny
Think Rock , Paper, Scisors guys,

Supers just need a counter, thats all.

Solution:

Black Ops redesign: Heavy Bomb Launchers X 3-4 Can inflict heavy dmg to Supers and Titans only.
hitting a sub cap would have the effect of being hit by a normal bomb.

maybe at the same time, make defender missiles work again?

Alter the Black Ops build requirements to make use of a moon goo that is not in the north :)



Something along these lines would do the trick.


So make an incredibly expensive, hard to train for ship be the counter to massive blobs of Supers... requiring in and of themselves MANY of these ships to have enough DPS to burn down a super, only to have the 40 Titans on grid to DD 40-billion ISK worth of ships every N-minutes?

I don't mean to be a hater, but this idea may not be fully thought through :)


Well i dont think T1 bs's should be the counter to a hard to train for , expensive super? do you ?

it just comes down to how many black ops per super kill? 5-7 could be about right.

treat them just as heavy bombers. cyno > drop bomb > warp and cloak. supers and titans should not get to lock them.

Carai an'Caldazar
Amarr
Oberon Incorporated
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2011.08.25 17:08:00 - [125]
 

Originally by: Cpt Bunny
Originally by: Carai an'Caldazar
Originally by: Cpt Bunny
Think Rock , Paper, Scisors guys,

Supers just need a counter, thats all.

Solution:

Black Ops redesign: Heavy Bomb Launchers X 3-4 Can inflict heavy dmg to Supers and Titans only.
hitting a sub cap would have the effect of being hit by a normal bomb.

maybe at the same time, make defender missiles work again?

Alter the Black Ops build requirements to make use of a moon goo that is not in the north :)



Something along these lines would do the trick.


So make an incredibly expensive, hard to train for ship be the counter to massive blobs of Supers... requiring in and of themselves MANY of these ships to have enough DPS to burn down a super, only to have the 40 Titans on grid to DD 40-billion ISK worth of ships every N-minutes?

I don't mean to be a hater, but this idea may not be fully thought through :)


Well i dont think T1 bs's should be the counter to a hard to train for , expensive super? do you ?

it just comes down to how many black ops per super kill? 5-7 could be about right.

treat them just as heavy bombers. cyno > drop bomb > warp and cloak. supers and titans should not get to lock them.


So Super-capital bombing runs? 2 Trillion ISK down the drain of the most-expensive hard-to-build ships in the game requiring months/years of construction because 40 Black Ops bombers bombed a cyno that went up when a hostile Supercap fleet jumped through the cyno, with the only defense for the Supers to effectively bubble their own cyno when the Supers land on grid so no bombers can warp in to hit them?

Hmm... Rolling Eyes

Cpt Bunny
Gallente
Syndicated Systems
ROMANIAN-LEGION
Posted - 2011.08.25 17:13:00 - [126]
 

Originally by: Carai an'Caldazar
Originally by: Cpt Bunny
Originally by: Carai an'Caldazar
Originally by: Cpt Bunny
Think Rock , Paper, Scisors guys,

Supers just need a counter, thats all.

Solution:

Black Ops redesign: Heavy Bomb Launchers X 3-4 Can inflict heavy dmg to Supers and Titans only.
hitting a sub cap would have the effect of being hit by a normal bomb.

maybe at the same time, make defender missiles work again?

Alter the Black Ops build requirements to make use of a moon goo that is not in the north :)



Something along these lines would do the trick.


So make an incredibly expensive, hard to train for ship be the counter to massive blobs of Supers... requiring in and of themselves MANY of these ships to have enough DPS to burn down a super, only to have the 40 Titans on grid to DD 40-billion ISK worth of ships every N-minutes?

I don't mean to be a hater, but this idea may not be fully thought through :)


Well i dont think T1 bs's should be the counter to a hard to train for , expensive super? do you ?

it just comes down to how many black ops per super kill? 5-7 could be about right.

treat them just as heavy bombers. cyno > drop bomb > warp and cloak. supers and titans should not get to lock them.


So Super-capital bombing runs? 2 Trillion ISK down the drain of the most-expensive hard-to-build ships in the game requiring months/years of construction because 40 Black Ops bombers bombed a cyno that went up when a hostile Supercap fleet jumped through the cyno, with the only defense for the Supers to effectively bubble their own cyno when the Supers land on grid so no bombers can warp in to hit them?

Hmm... Rolling Eyes



No. it will force the super cap fleets to run decent support fleets too as it should be.

I was in HED - GP when the Blob arrived. i counted 40+ titans and 200+ supers. this is wrong. Every fleet composition must have an effective counter. or there is no hope.

forcing the superblob to run sub cap defence fleets is a way to enable a counter to the superblob. no sub cap defence fleet = the black bombers get to do their thing.

bottom line is, every fleet composition must have a counter.

Carai an'Caldazar
Amarr
Oberon Incorporated
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2011.08.25 17:16:00 - [127]
 

Edited by: Carai an''Caldazar on 25/08/2011 17:23:19
See my thoughts above (top of page 5).

If even some of my proposed changes went through, with roughly a proper fit force of equal number to the attacking invaders, a much better fight could have occurred. The fate of that system would have relied far less on the number of Supers on grid, and far more on the tactics employed. The attack itself would have also required a logistical miracle to occur, being that many of the attacking forces deployed from the far side of the galaxy.

I think my ideas are far more flexible with the current game mechanics, achieve a much better balance moving forward, and would make those pilots who fly these ships as well as those who hunt them very happy.

I think the type of solution I proposed would provide a much better environment for EVE warfare than a silver bullet to a shiptype that is causing problems. The unintended consequences of introducing a Titan-killer, be it a T2 Dreadnought or a Super-Block-Ops, could very easily screw up far more than it fixes.

Thoughts?

Zagdul
Gallente
Clan Shadow Wolf
Fatal Ascension
Posted - 2011.08.25 17:25:00 - [128]
 

Last night, I shot an Avatar with 350 of my friends for 15 minutes and it didn't die.

I was there.

Cpt Bunny
Gallente
Syndicated Systems
ROMANIAN-LEGION
Posted - 2011.08.25 17:26:00 - [129]
 

Originally by: Carai an'Caldazar
Edited by: Carai an''Caldazar on 25/08/2011 17:21:56
See my thoughts above (top of page 5).

If even some of my proposed changes went through, with roughly a proper fit force of equal number to the attacking invaders, a much better fight could have occurred. The fate of that system would have relied far less on the number of Supers on grid, and far more on the tactics employed. The attack itself would have also required a logistical miracle to occur, being that many of the attacking forces deployed from the far side of the galaxy.

I think my ideas are far more flexible with the current game mechanics, achieve a much better balance moving forward, and would make those pilots who fly these ships as well as those who hunt them very happy.

I think the type of solution I proposed would provide a much better environment for EVE warfare than a silver bullet to a shiptype that is causing problems. The unintended consequences of introducing a Titan-killer, be it a T2 Dreadnought or a Super-Block-Ops, could very easily screw up far more than it fixes.

Thoughts?


you proposal makes sense,

but

titans will become the new super. and we will be in the same position all over again.

the HED-GP fight: the Titans were given "Fire at will" orders and were DD'ing logi's etc. SuperBlob can and has put out 40+ at a time. it will just get worse.

im starting to think the only solution might be some kind of Hard Cap limit on supers per system. 50% blue %50 red

Centra Spike
Caldari
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2011.08.25 17:31:00 - [130]
 

Originally by: Zagdul
Last night, I shot an Avatar with 350 of my friends for 15 minutes and it didn't die.

I was there.


Maybe you should have brought in the 30 supers you had online.

Morris Falter
Caldari
The Collective
B O R G
Posted - 2011.08.25 17:33:00 - [131]
 

They should let us nano up titans. 30km/s avatars pwning interceptors with doomsdays would only be very marginally more broken than how it is at the moment, so what's the big deal?

Do it CCP, show us some love.

Cpt Bunny
Gallente
Syndicated Systems
ROMANIAN-LEGION
Posted - 2011.08.25 17:34:00 - [132]
 

1 thing tho.

maybe things should be just left as they are. SuperBlob have not done anything wrong, they are just using their isk and skill.
maybe there should not be a nerf and we should let eve decided the future in thwe way it always has.

no alliance lasts forever. and eventually superblob will run out of reds. i would then guess the usual events would occur. resets and alliance failures. and it will all start over again.


Feligast
Minmatar
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.08.25 17:35:00 - [133]
 

Originally by: Centra Spike
Originally by: Zagdul
Last night, I shot an Avatar with 350 of my friends for 15 minutes and it didn't die.

I was there.


Maybe you should have brought in the 30 supers you had online.


Thank you for acknowledging the only counter to a single titan is.. 30 supers.

Carai an'Caldazar
Amarr
Oberon Incorporated
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2011.08.25 17:43:00 - [134]
 

Edited by: Carai an''Caldazar on 25/08/2011 17:47:56
Originally by: Cpt Bunny
Originally by: Carai an'Caldazar
Edited by: Carai an''Caldazar on 25/08/2011 17:21:56
See my thoughts above (top of page 5).

If even some of my proposed changes went through, with roughly a proper fit force of equal number to the attacking invaders, a much better fight could have occurred. The fate of that system would have relied far less on the number of Supers on grid, and far more on the tactics employed. The attack itself would have also required a logistical miracle to occur, being that many of the attacking forces deployed from the far side of the galaxy.

I think my ideas are far more flexible with the current game mechanics, achieve a much better balance moving forward, and would make those pilots who fly these ships as well as those who hunt them very happy.

I think the type of solution I proposed would provide a much better environment for EVE warfare than a silver bullet to a shiptype that is causing problems. The unintended consequences of introducing a Titan-killer, be it a T2 Dreadnought or a Super-Block-Ops, could very easily screw up far more than it fixes.

Thoughts?


you proposal makes sense,

but

titans will become the new super. and we will be in the same position all over again.

the HED-GP fight: the Titans were given "Fire at will" orders and were DD'ing logi's etc. SuperBlob can and has put out 40+ at a time. it will just get worse.

im starting to think the only solution might be some kind of Hard Cap limit on supers per system. 50% blue %50 red


If 40-50 Titans are on grid, should that not be a momentous occasion?

I am offering solutions to enable it to be POSSIBLE to kill them, as today it is not reasonably so in those numbers unless the server hiccups. When 40-50 HICs can be DD'd each round, it is not hard to keep everyone safe. Is it surprising that everyone who has spent years preparing and finally achieving flying one of these ships wants to fly them with the group that guarantees their safety? Some of the other ideas support making these numbers far less realistic - logistical movement challenges - and easier to pin down - fleets of T1 ships could put points to prevent escape, forcing a fight...

The downstream consequences of things such as Dreadnought/Carrier fixes would enable these ships to wage Sovereignty warfare far better than today, and the logistical challenges of supers could enable someone like the ROL incursion into Tribute to be far more effective (no easily returning home with the big toys). So the DRF puts 170 supercapitals in HED-GP? Great, deploy elsewhere, spread out, and divide and conquer against all their now-undefended territory... without wanting to gouge your eyes out unless you have 20-30 Supers of your own as grinding sovereignty warfare with todays tools sucks! All of this assumes that you don't want to throw up a fight at home and take down their Supercaps using a far superior Subcap blob to kill their subcaps and tie them down into a 10-hour firefight where if they run, they sacrifice a few guys left behind (sure, jump out, we have 47 points on Titan A and 32 on Titan B).

Are these not the types of stories we WANT to experience and read about in EVE Online?

Originally by: Cpt Bunny
1 thing tho.

maybe things should be just left as they are. SuperBlob have not done anything wrong, they are just using their isk and skill.
maybe there should not be a nerf and we should let eve decided the future in thwe way it always has.

no alliance lasts forever. and eventually superblob will run out of reds. i would then guess the usual events would occur. resets and alliance failures. and it will all start over again.



I do think, along with many others, that a fix is necessary. Simply giving up and hoping life takes its course and they all collapse into a sea of drama might work... but by the time that happens you'll have alienated many of the pilots, such as myself, who play EVE for the purpose of flying in Nullsec.

Centra Spike
Caldari
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2011.08.25 17:45:00 - [135]
 

Originally by: Feligast
Originally by: Centra Spike
Originally by: Zagdul
Last night, I shot an Avatar with 350 of my friends for 15 minutes and it didn't die.

I was there.


Maybe you should have brought in the 30 supers you had online.


Thank you for acknowledging the only counter to a single titan is.. 30 supers.


Or you could have brought more torp Ravens, Michael Bolton is a hero.

Feligast
Minmatar
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.08.25 17:48:00 - [136]
 

Originally by: Centra Spike
Originally by: Feligast
Originally by: Centra Spike
Originally by: Zagdul
Last night, I shot an Avatar with 350 of my friends for 15 minutes and it didn't die.

I was there.


Maybe you should have brought in the 30 supers you had online.


Thank you for acknowledging the only counter to a single titan is.. 30 supers.


Or you could have brought more torp Ravens, Michael Bolton is a hero.


And adorable, too!

Shouldn't 350 be enough? Especialy when he had no active hardeners? Since it obviously was not enough, some thing is wrong, don't you think?

Cpt Tunguska
Minmatar
In for the Kill
Scooty Puff Junior Alliance
Posted - 2011.08.25 17:52:00 - [137]
 

Edited by: Cpt Tunguska on 25/08/2011 17:57:19
Originally by: Feligast

Originally by: Centra Spike
Originally by: Zagdul
Last night, I shot an Avatar with 350 of my friends for 15 minutes and it didn't die.

I was there.


Maybe you should have brought in the 30 supers you had online.


Thank you for acknowledging the only counter to a single titan is.. 30 supers.


Thats exactly why they get nerfed.

As far as I know the upcoming balancing patch will nerf supercaps, nerfs logistics and moongo. 3 month left, set your timers!

I just hope the Scap nerf will be serious enough to get rid of that pandemic. The logistis nerf would be a bonus. If they are easier to kill it would break up this boring tanking & repping fights were all just orbit gates instead of warping and flying around.

Metal Dude
Gallente
Destructive Influence
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2011.08.25 18:14:00 - [138]
 

Where's the nerf or counter to 1500 man blob?

1Of9
Gallente
The Circle
White Noise.
Posted - 2011.08.25 18:22:00 - [139]
 

Originally by: Headerman
Edited by: Headerman on 24/08/2011 11:13:32
Originally by: Cpt Tunguska
WHEN?


[Aeon, 166million + EHP]
Corpus X-Type Armor EM Hardener
Corpus X-Type Armor Thermic Hardener
Corpus X-Type Armor Kinetic Hardener
Corpus X-Type Armor Explosive Hardener
Corpus X-Type Armor Thermic Hardener
Corpus X-Type Armor Kinetic Hardener
Corpus X-Type Armor Explosive Hardener
Corpus X-Type Armor EM Hardener

Federation Navy Sensor Booster, Scan Resolution
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II

True Sansha Large EMP Smartbomb
True Sansha Heavy Energy Neutralizer
True Sansha Heavy Energy Neutralizer
Remote ECM Burst I
Capital Murky Energy Transmitter I
Capital Coaxial Regenerative Projector

Large Trimark Armor Pump II
Large Trimark Armor Pump II
Large Trimark Armor Pump II


Tyrfing x20
Firbolg x10
Bouncer II x20
Warrior II x20


Hopefully never. i need more than 166 million EHP from my Aeon :/

Seriously, if the OP can't think of a counter to that, then they need to rethink their purpose is in 0.0 space


op is obviously a goon .. no brains cant be found there.

just cry cry cry, and wait for ccp to get them out of the troubles they are in

SmokeyUK
Gallente
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2011.08.25 18:23:00 - [140]
 

Edited by: SmokeyUK on 25/08/2011 18:25:45
Anyone remember Empyrean Age Trailer, the weapon used at the end of the trailer would solve the supercap problem Smile....what ever happened to that?

SinXiao
Gallente
WEPRA CORP
White Noise.
Posted - 2011.08.25 18:41:00 - [141]
 

Originally by: SmokeyUK
Edited by: SmokeyUK on 25/08/2011 18:25:45
Anyone remember Empyrean Age Trailer, the weapon used at the end of the trailer would solve the supercap problem Smile....what ever happened to that?

That's clearly Jove technology, which we wont see for a looong time I would say. But surely looks like a "cap problem solution" : ]

Calchura Daria
Caldari
The Knights Templar
Cascade Imminent
Posted - 2011.08.25 18:49:00 - [142]
 

How about a scripted, or even separate, siege module for dreads. This would be akin to a mini DD and can only be activated on SCs/Titan's.

Something like 1 or 2 million damage. Enough to allow a fleet of 30-40 dreads wax an SC in one go and make a Titan Pilot have a brown trouser moment.

SCs would still be the structure incapping and brawling king of Capitals, but would be vunerable to an organised group of lower tiered Capital Ships. It also gives back the Dread the role it was made for, Cap fights.

Yeah, Yeah, I Know, Feature and Ideas is that way, I'll get my coat lol.

Wu Phat
Caldari
Super Batungwaa Ninja Warriors
0ccupational Hazzard
Posted - 2011.08.25 18:51:00 - [143]
 

Edited by: Wu Phat on 25/08/2011 18:52:30
Originally by: Cpt Bunny
Think Rock , Paper, Scisors guys,

Supers just need a counter, thats all.

Solution:

Black Ops redesign: Heavy Bomb Launchers X 3-4 Can inflict heavy dmg to Supers and Titans only.
hitting a sub cap would have the effect of being hit by a normal bomb.

maybe at the same time, make defender missiles work again?

Alter the Black Ops build requirements to make use of a moon goo that is not in the north :)



Something along these lines would do the trick.




Your in the right area but think " KISS ". Micro Citadel Siege Lunchers and Torpedos For Stealth Bombers. Fighter bombers have them why can't regular bombers have them. They will just do nothing like you said to sub capitals. Kinda perfect for your 5 Mill sp noob to fly and get on capital kills.


Hiemlynn
Minmatar
V I R I I
Posted - 2011.08.25 19:04:00 - [144]
 

Edited by: Hiemlynn on 25/08/2011 19:18:51
I might have missed the point but why can't a group of a hundred highly trained and skilled pilots hold off or defeat two thousand noobs in T1 ships?

Yes SC's and titans are powerful and yes there are alot of them but why should they be nerfed so that they can be taken out by currently inferior forces? It makes no sense. If it means that all other alliances and corps end up in NPC or highsec space so be it.

If you don't like it make isk and buy them or rent space and build them. Just don't sit and whine because you don't have enough of them.

Centra Spike
Caldari
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2011.08.25 19:04:00 - [145]
 

Originally by: Feligast
And adorable, too!

Shouldn't 350 be enough? Especialy when he had no active hardeners? Since it obviously was not enough, some thing is wrong, don't you think?


You had the perfect chance to kill a bunch of supers, but you were unwilling to commit your full force to do it. You outnumbered us in subcaps AND in supercaps.

Batalo
Gallente
UEF COMMAND
ROL.Citizens
Posted - 2011.08.25 19:39:00 - [146]
 

Edited by: Batalo on 25/08/2011 19:49:36
Originally by: Hiemlynn
Edited by: Hiemlynn on 25/08/2011 19:18:51
I might have missed the point but why can't a group of a hundred highly trained and skilled pilots hold off or defeat two thousand noobs in T1 ships?

Yes SC's and titans are powerful and yes there are alot of them but why should they be nerfed so that they can be taken out by currently inferior forces? It makes no sense. If it means that all other alliances and corps end up in NPC or highsec space so be it.

If you don't like it make isk and buy them or rent space and build them. Just don't sit and whine because you don't have enough of them.


lol at the raiden, NCdot, WN, or Evoke alt

also ccp will nerf them because they dont want to lose a lot of customers because one group of people is totally over powered. I would not want to play a game like that. Were it is impossible to win. Also "If you don't like it make isk and buy them or rent space and build them. Just don't sit and whine because you don't have enough of them." I laughed so hard at this lololololololol. "buy them" I should not have to pay real money to win. "Rent space" So I have a supercap now what" Ok so my alliance just rented space and made 100 titans but in the time my masters have made 200 more so there was no point.

Suitonia
Gallente
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2011.08.25 19:56:00 - [147]
 

Originally by: Hiemlynn
Edited by: Hiemlynn on 25/08/2011 19:18:51
I might have missed the point but why can't a group of a hundred highly trained and skilled pilots hold off or defeat two thousand noobs in T1 ships?

Yes SC's and titans are powerful and yes there are alot of them but why should they be nerfed so that they can be taken out by currently inferior forces? It makes no sense. If it means that all other alliances and corps end up in NPC or highsec space so be it.

If you don't like it make isk and buy them or rent space and build them. Just don't sit and whine because you don't have enough of them.


Yeah, you heard him! Rent space from the coalition that controls the entire map due to SC dominance and somehow out produce them on Super Capitals despite them having much more means to produce them, hoard them, and maybe in a 6-7 years when your elite alliance can field the same numbers of them to stand a fighting chance, and have sufficient means to replace losses, you can finally start taking the map back! Oh Boy looking forward to Eve in 2018.

Meanwhile everyone else has left the game due to outright staleness.

The groups that are skilled have always adapted, have always controlled and changed the meta, and have always been able to take on a more numerically superior opponent. Super Capitals are stale and require very little piloting ability from the individual player, its essentially a pure numbers game. The same alliances will continue to win when Super Capitals are adjusted to more reasonable levels, the ones who rely on outright SC dominance and their bluelist of SCs we will see whining on the forums.

See: Pandemic Legion. 100 Tengus vs 500 Atlas/Fail/AAA drakes, 100 Armor HACs(when it was a new concept) vs 500 NC BS.

Demon Azrakel
Gallente
Defiant..
Narwhals Ate My Duck
Posted - 2011.08.25 20:37:00 - [148]
 

Originally by: Suitonia
Originally by: Hiemlynn
Edited by: Hiemlynn on 25/08/2011 19:18:51
I might have missed the point but why can't a group of a hundred highly trained and skilled pilots hold off or defeat two thousand noobs in T1 ships?

Yes SC's and titans are powerful and yes there are alot of them but why should they be nerfed so that they can be taken out by currently inferior forces? It makes no sense. If it means that all other alliances and corps end up in NPC or highsec space so be it.

If you don't like it make isk and buy them or rent space and build them. Just don't sit and whine because you don't have enough of them.


Yeah, you heard him! Rent space from the coalition that controls the entire map due to SC dominance and somehow out produce them on Super Capitals despite them having much more means to produce them, hoard them, and maybe in a 6-7 years when your elite alliance can field the same numbers of them to stand a fighting chance, and have sufficient means to replace losses, you can finally start taking the map back! Oh Boy looking forward to Eve in 2018.

Meanwhile everyone else has left the game due to outright staleness.

The groups that are skilled have always adapted, have always controlled and changed the meta, and have always been able to take on a more numerically superior opponent. Super Capitals are stale and require very little piloting ability from the individual player, its essentially a pure numbers game. The same alliances will continue to win when Super Capitals are adjusted to more reasonable levels, the ones who rely on outright SC dominance and their bluelist of SCs we will see whining on the forums.

See: Pandemic Legion. 100 Tengus vs 500 Atlas/Fail/AAA drakes, 100 Armor HACs(when it was a new concept) vs 500 NC BS.


Yeah, I am one of those who respects PL in general, but when they say that SCs are not OP and should not be nerfed, they are talking out of their collective asses.

Lunas Whisper
Minmatar
Chillwater Ltd
Imperial Ascension
Posted - 2011.08.25 20:39:00 - [149]
 

Seems the only way to take out big coalitions like this, would be to get people in, to make them eat themselves. (looks at goons, aka the Bob example, of the director defecting)

You guys know where the expensive moon goo is, why not get roaming gangs to take out the haulers taking them out of the pos? Logofski. They need moon goo to make more super caps, so take away one of their playthings. Doesn't require you to take out the pos, but the indy guy getting stuck doing all the hauling.

Go after, through guerrilla warfare, their Indy guys, mining to make the stuff to make the super caps. Then I dunno, bait, and kill one supercap at a time.

Or make another big coalition(diplo fun fun, needing to soothe multiple ruffled feathers) and the DRF becomes Bob 3(or whatever number it is at currently).

FatChance
Caldari
Defenders of Order
BLACK-MARK
Posted - 2011.08.25 20:57:00 - [150]
 

Nerf access to moon goo. Force alliances and corporations to either have sovereignty or good standings with the current sovereignty holders in order to actually use the moons.


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