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Crellion
Gallente
Parental Control
Merciless.
Posted - 2011.09.01 09:47:00 - [271]
 

SUPERCAP FIX

Step 1:
Super carrier and Titan Role Penalty:
Lockable and destroyable energy hub module:
Same hp and resists as the ship itself, if destroyed ship goes kaboom (or even more interesting high yield options).

Step 2: S class weapon systems and bombers do 10xDPS on the hub module, i.e. 1x 6 month old pvp char in a Taranis does 3000+ DPS on your super.

/me whistles away merrily...




iwannabeahippy
Caldari
SniggWaffe
Posted - 2011.09.01 10:20:00 - [272]
 

Edited by: iwannabeahippy on 01/09/2011 10:20:20
Step one: Implement massive supercapital changes
Step two: Cringe at outcry and unsubscribers
Step three: Offer all characters 'One time special offer SP reset'
Step four: Seed NPC buy orders for supercapitals to alleviate isk losses from changes and reset.
Step five: Feel good about selves as almost all of eve spends 6-9 months with new skillsets and retraining stuff they forgot to update whilst you attempt to make a legitimate overhaul of supers.

Bailian Moxtain
Caldari
NibbleTek
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2011.09.01 12:36:00 - [273]
 

dont nerf supercaps, what are we gonna do now against the blobs we're facing! im mad n jelly

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2011.09.01 13:23:00 - [274]
 

Edited by: Malcanis on 01/09/2011 13:23:19
I'm fine with supercaps being able to beat the crap out of capitals, but they should be close to useless vs subcaps, just as battleships are not efficient vs Frigates and Dreads don't have much to say to Cruisers.

Nerf the living hell out of Titan tracking (Reduce to ~25% better than a sieged dread)

Give the DD a 3250m explosion radius / 70m/s explosion velocity (not modifiable by skills) to put an end to the dreariness of mass-DD'ing logis and dictors (should still work OK vs HICs which is fair enough IMO). It's silly to take away the drone bay; a ship the size of a titan should have 500m^3 of drones.

Give motherships 25 Fighter Launch slots (+1 per Drone Control unit, I guess); it's up to the pilot whether they fill them with Fighters or Fighter-Bombers. And a 700m^3/250mbit standard drone bay.

Remove rig slots from supercaps; they're only ever used for Trimarks/CDFEs anyway, so there's no "customization" involved. The ridiculous EHP that supers have is a big part of the problem with them as it is, and effectively increasing it by 72% with the mandatory 3x T2 trimarks/cdfes just makes it worse.

This has been Malc's supercap rebalance

hauleringonline
Amarr
Anormalii S.A.
Vera Cruz Alliance
Posted - 2011.09.01 13:45:00 - [275]
 

Facing blobs bigger then u can imagine makes ppl cry in their corners cos they have not worked as hard or effective as the others do ... but i think nerfing sc`s is rather viable. titans are way expensive then a sc and very close @ dps ... so ppl fielding 255 sc fleet its now ordinary from top forces the others cant do **** also cos of the fighter/drone lag maybe think about that(also note that alot of ppl are scared to field the titans cos of big laggy fight)
Other stuff that can make eve more fun could be :
1) adding a few new regions so ppl can have easier acces into 0.0( heard also that in drone regions drf are botting alot so they can replace they`re sc fleet instantly maybe ccp can look into that)
2) making a huge stationary defence thing some sort of battlestation that can deal with alot(ofc with high upkeep in resources and all maybe guarding the cynojammer pos or something)
3) introducing dreads t2 or/and carriers t2 so ppl cant whine indefineatly about sc`s beeing so overpowered
4) boosting moon value so various ppl can get acces to higher income that can lead to a bigger fleet to defend their space
Not sure about others but i still dream of the day that i see jovian stuff(maybe thats one of the goals that keeps me playing) or some other new race of npc who can make more ppl interested in playing the game and not new set of clothes so ppl can facebook their pcitures while walking insisde a station ... Peace!

DeDe hungry
Gallente
Les chevaliers de l'ordre
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.09.01 13:58:00 - [276]
 

Edited by: DeDe hungry on 01/09/2011 14:06:55
Edited by: DeDe hungry on 01/09/2011 13:58:20
Quote:

One Supercap at 15bil isk/500 USD is equivalent to 150 battleships in cost just for the ship (not to mention character cost).



Is not one reason, Dude, you can kill battleship with well played frigate, if you train Super carrier it's YOUR objective, and the cost of Hull/char... Your problem.

Because the hull price of SC is 15B you need 15B ship for kill them? Oh wait... It's ridiculous.
Mmmh with supercap you are invulnerable to warp scrambling/disruptor, and THIS is cost effective... subcap cant do anything versus Supercarrier if you don't have bubble, you know... Yes right clic Jump to... And leave the field (yep but energy neutra... ), warp out... cloak (yeah!), regen capa, and Right click Jump to or log-off (with 15mn CD), if you add the titan in the equation (for DD Interdictor/HIC) and bomber (for destroy some Bubble...)...

I love the idea about removing rig slot on supercap, or add, XLarge rig for them (Huge cost).

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2011.09.01 15:00:00 - [277]
 

Originally by: DeDe hungry


I love the idea about removing rig slot on supercap, or add, XLarge rig for them (Huge cost).


No to XL rigs. The idea is to limit their EHP, not add a few hundred mill onto the cost of a ship which already costs tens of billions to buy and fit.

hauleringonline
Amarr
Anormalii S.A.
Vera Cruz Alliance
Posted - 2011.09.01 15:15:00 - [278]
 

malcanis u want a massive nerf to titans and u compare them with dreads? do u realise the diffrence in training/getting skills for titan and dread? or if u cant afford bigger stuff no1 else should?

zoltar pdp
Caldari
WALLTREIPERS
Posted - 2011.09.01 16:34:00 - [279]
 

Easy fix: the biggest the ship, the longest the aggression timer, with titan aggression timer being ~3 hours and supercarrier ~2 hours. AND everytime you get bubbled/tackled, the timer resets. For ALL ships.

Currently there's not point on engaging a supercap fleet with a subcap fleet because if they see you have triple their numbers, they will just log off, probably losing only 2-3 considering the lag involved in big fights and the ridiculously massive hp of supers. I really like the removal of rigs proposal some posts ago, as they are only used to increase raw hp right now.

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2011.09.01 16:37:00 - [280]
 

Originally by: hauleringonline
malcanis u want a massive nerf to titans and u compare them with dreads? do u realise the diffrence in training/getting skills for titan and dread? or if u cant afford bigger stuff no1 else should?


Ah, so in a game where owning a single moon can make billions of ISK per week, you think cost alone is sufficient to balance ships? Should my faction fit Fleet Typhoon be effectively invulnerable to tackle by a few T1 Rifters? Supercaps should be vulnerable to subcap tackling, just as a tachypoc or artymael is vulnerable to a frigate.

Why should a Titan be efficient against ships 2 size classes smaller than it when no other ship type is? Every other ship class - no matter how expensive - can reasonably be countered with smaller class ships. Only supercaps are so effective vs smaller ships.

If supercaps were effective vs capitals but ineffective vs subcaps, they'd have an excellent and useful role: preventing EVE from returning to "Captial Ships Online". We would have a balanced ecosystem with subcap fleets, capital fleets and supercap fleets each having their role and their vulnerability. Unsupported supercaps would make short work of capitals, but be vulnerable to support fleets. Subcap-only fleets would be vulnerable to carrier-heavy fleets. Capital-heavy fleets would be vulnerable to supers.

We don't need additional ship classes, we don't need specialised "capital killers" (supercaps are already specialised capital killers), we just need a clearly defined role and weakness for each class.

At the moment, supercaps have no real weakness other than "the other guy might have even more supercaps" - which is the antithesis of balance.

Indeterminacy
Caldari
THORN Syndicate
BricK sQuAD.
Posted - 2011.09.01 17:16:00 - [281]
 

Originally by: Centra Spike
Originally by: Indeterminacy
...who have formed the largest coalition ever know to eve.


Pretty sure you were in the largest coalition ever assembled in Eve, until you got left to die in Geminate.

It's really just amazing.


Actually, we left Pure Blind of our own free will after fighting from Gem to Vale to Tribute. But since when do these kind of details matter? A quick scroll thru dot lan and some maths finds: 29515 members in the DRF coalition. Just sayin'

Centra Spike
Caldari
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2011.09.01 19:12:00 - [282]
 

Originally by: Indeterminacy
Originally by: Centra Spike
Originally by: Indeterminacy
...who have formed the largest coalition ever know to eve.


Pretty sure you were in the largest coalition ever assembled in Eve, until you got left to die in Geminate.

It's really just amazing.


Actually, we left Pure Blind of our own free will after fighting from Gem to Vale to Tribute. But since when do these kind of details matter? A quick scroll thru dot lan and some maths finds: 29515 members in the DRF coalition. Just sayin'


Which is half of what your ~coalition~ was. Just sayin'.

Feligast
Minmatar
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.09.01 19:44:00 - [283]
 

Awww, look at the new NC being all defensive about numvers already. Isn't it fun turning into that which you professed to hate the most, Anti-Blue, Anti-Blob Coalition?

Capricorn 0ne
Caldari
Broski Federation
Tactical Narcotics Team
Posted - 2011.09.01 21:12:00 - [284]
 

If you guys are going post stupid ideas let's at least make them so stupid that they are considered.


How about a ship half way between a dreadnought and a titan.

The JIHAD-NOUGHT. No guns or missiles or tank. It has the EHP of a battleship, its special ability is it has a 10 second self destruct timer and upon detonation it unleashes a AOE Doomsday. And upon detonation a system wide message of 'ALLAHU AKBAR'.


It's literally a win-win. And a new hull would offer some much needed redemption to the CCP ship design department after the sansha mothership (we know some parts of the game are crap but why make crap literally float around in space. If there were enough of those ships it would be like flying through a toilet bowl.)

Grath Telkin
Amarr
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2011.09.01 21:26:00 - [285]
 

Originally by: Malcanis


Why should a Titan be efficient against ships 2 size classes smaller than it when no other ship type is? Every other ship class - no matter how expensive - can reasonably be countered with smaller class ships. Only supercaps are so effective vs smaller ships.




I mean, i understand that you don't like supers, but telling outright lies is a bit ridiculous.


Battleships are actually fairly dangerous to frigates so I'm not sure what game you're playing, but if you tackle my Domi, or Tempest, or Geddon, or....well lets just say most, that your frigate is likely deeply and passionately screwed, or at the best case you burn your point out in about 1 minute and I warp off.

kaltenp
Caldari
The New Era
C0NVICTED
Posted - 2011.09.01 22:27:00 - [286]
 

Nerf supers has some merit to me but what about fixing a ship class that atm in game has no use.

Destroyers

The only nerfs I would suggest to supers initially is
1. restrict sc to fighters and fighter bombers only
2. supers cant lock cruiser size and below targets
3. unsure how to do this but stop the ability for supers to kite damage till they log off(not sure on this one but does not seem right if your caught that you escape this way)

Destroyers:
1.Provide ability for cap killing module (torpedo, spinal weapon etc)and bonuses to weapon power not so that one destroyer can take a cap but a group of say 10 can do it in a reasonable time frame
2.reduced sig radius (in real life destroyer and frig sizes not that much difference)

My reasoning for these changes are (and they are just ideas so dont bother ranting there may well be issues with this still)is that in real life going back to the era of bs, cruisers and newly arrived air power a destroyer was a small fast hard to hit target, but still quite fragile, that could sink an aircraft carrier. I think that if you did this with the above nerfs for supers it would provide a tactical element to the game as people would have to be wary of jumping supers without good support but it would still leave supers with the role that they should have



Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2011.09.02 06:52:00 - [287]
 

Originally by: Grath Telkin
Originally by: Malcanis


Why should a Titan be efficient against ships 2 size classes smaller than it when no other ship type is? Every other ship class - no matter how expensive - can reasonably be countered with smaller class ships. Only supercaps are so effective vs smaller ships.




I mean, i understand that you don't like supers, but telling outright lies is a bit ridiculous.


Battleships are actually fairly dangerous to frigates so I'm not sure what game you're playing, but if you tackle my Domi, or Tempest, or Geddon, or....well lets just say most, that your frigate is likely deeply and passionately screwed, or at the best case you burn your point out in about 1 minute and I warp off.


OK, you Tach-fit fit your Abaddon, and me and say 4 other guys all in Rifters or Punishers will take you on and let's see how well that works out for you. I'm going to go with "not well".

That's a fairly good representation of the average super:sub numbers we see these days.

Yeah Domis: specialised drone boats. Not the best analogy for Titans which are turret based, don't you think? I mean seeing as we're being all honest?.

I was referring to the effectiveness of the Titan turrets, as you well know. They have way too good tracking. It's as if CCP had given all large long range turrets the same tracking as Medium Pulse Lasers. That would be awesome for the guys flying battleships, but horrible for everyone in anything smaller.

But hey, since they can get their own battleships, it would be "balanced", right?

hauleringonline
Amarr
Anormalii S.A.
Vera Cruz Alliance
Posted - 2011.09.02 07:42:00 - [288]
 

Malcanis ure ideas jst seem like comunist type ... i mean if u cant get soemthing greater others that got there should be blamed? And regarding realistic scenarios if i jettison my ammo from titan should kill ure frigate/cruiser instantly if u happen to be nearby ... or if i fire a shell and the used shell its landing on ure frigate should instantly set u on fire! True story!

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2011.09.02 08:40:00 - [289]
 

Originally by: hauleringonline
True story!



Indubitably, dear sir.

Shuriath
Caldari
Assisted Genocide
Unprovoked Aggression
Posted - 2011.09.02 12:17:00 - [290]
 

Originally by: Jovian Strain
I think supers should not be able to touch subcaps. In the real world, large ships always had escorts to protect them from smaller more mobile threats like submarines or torpedo bombers.

Thus, a subcapital fight should be won prior to use of supers and the supers shouldn't decide the outcome of these subcap fights. Supers should be good are murdering other supers and sov grinding, not subcaps targets. In the end, within reason, skills should be able to overcome capital heavy fleet (even if the supercaps manage to get away).




+1 to this idea

Supers and titans should be used only to kill caps, and down the chain. titans 1 shotting cruiser sized ships is ridiculous remove DD altogether or revamp it again.

other than that i think its up to the individual alliances to decide if they think that having such a big conglomerate of supers is a benefit to the game. Sure you can steamroll eve and control the whole universe, but what will it achieve? people will leave the game and you will be bored. youll leave the game and the best mmo game will be finnished. the RMT will dry up because you wont have any customers and you will end up homeless because you have no income....... YARRRR!!

I dont want to see SC get the nerf bat... how about some love for the SC... all you gotta do is hit the RESET button, no more blue blobs...

Who does get the income from the tech moons anyway? is it evenly distributed? is every person who is risking his SC in these fights got rights to the income? or is it held by the super elites?.... I mean, what better reason to reset YARRRR!!

Cpt Tunguska
Minmatar
In for the Kill
Scooty Puff Junior Alliance
Posted - 2011.09.02 14:09:00 - [291]
 

Edited by: Cpt Tunguska on 02/09/2011 14:14:32
Originally by: Centra Spike
Originally by: Indeterminacy
Originally by: Centra Spike
Originally by: Indeterminacy
...who have formed the largest coalition ever know to eve.


Pretty sure you were in the largest coalition ever assembled in Eve, until you got left to die in Geminate.

It's really just amazing.


Actually, we left Pure Blind of our own free will after fighting from Gem to Vale to Tribute. But since when do these kind of details matter? A quick scroll thru dot lan and some maths finds: 29515 members in the DRF coalition. Just sayin'


Which is half of what your ~coalition~ was. Just sayin'.


Its quite funny. I remember pl and NCdot crew hating ol' NC for creating a stagnant game enviroment. But srsly ....how stagnant is this what we currently have? Must be the most boring situation eve ever faced. They Killed NC for sake of good game, but created a supercapmonster which is, in fact ruining the whole thing. Just one viable coalition left so far....be proud of yourself!

pandemic legion: "In (super)blob we trust."

EDIT: I read @ evenews the nerf will hit Tranq in october. Just 1 month left .P Lets all hope this will be the end of 100+ supercarrier spams and dozens of Doomsday - parties every 10 mins.

Laechyd Eldgorn
Caldari
draketrain
Posted - 2011.09.03 09:26:00 - [292]
 

titans and supercarriers dont need massive nerf.

only their weapons against subcaps need nerf i.e. tracking and dd damage against supcaps and fighter bomber damage against subcaps.

imho most important would be nerfing the frigging cynosural field instablob anywhere. it would affect caps more than fiddling with their minor stats. at least it would fix supercaps vs small gang warfare a lot. it doesn't matter how much ehp or damage they do if you can't bring them on field in instant.

i don't know how to fix instapopping pos's and stuff though. i really think increasing fuel and ammo costs and reducing jump range for capitals would nerf the logistics part making it more difficult to move them around though.

but even then you got every kind of pos exploits and crap for moving them. trololo.



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