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Cpt Tunguska
Minmatar
In for the Kill
Scooty Puff Junior Alliance
Posted - 2011.08.24 09:05:00 - [1]
 

Currently most of conquerable space in eve-online is owned by one single supercap coalition. They are forming huge Titan spams and kill off everything in their way, without the slightest chance to counter this playstyle. Right now the last independant alliance is under fire. They will fall soon, they dont have a chance to beat the Titan blobs and doomsday spams. Subcapital ships and capitals cant do anything beside dieing in horrible lag, caused by hundrets of supercarriers and their 20 fighters each.

I just want to ask the question:

WHEN?

How hard is it to nerf 2 shipclasses to make room for a more diverse playstyle? What takes that much time? Just remove them from frontlines by reducing their stats by 95% and make subcaps/capital ships the major players again, like it was before Dominion Thats the only way to save the server from beeing 100% uniform.

Supercaps were buffed with dominion, and it made sense at this time. They were more or less evenly distibuted amongst different alliances. But then something happened ccp could not reckon with: Most supercap heavy alliances like IT (rdn), PL, NCdot, Evoke, white noise, red and many others banded together and formed one huge supercap-alliance, which is currently burning down the server, just by jumping in titans/scs. And once it formed up, individual supercap pilots kept running to them, just to make it worse.

This heavily uneven distrubution of supercaps cant be ever reversed. Like 80% of all acive pvping supercaps play in the same team. Theres no counter and no hope with current game mechanics. Remove DDs, remove Titans!

Dot it now Cool

Tish Magev
Caldari
Nex Exercitus
Raiden.
Posted - 2011.08.24 09:33:00 - [2]
 

Would you like some cheese with your whine?

Ventro69
Caldari
Manson Family
Corcoran State
Posted - 2011.08.24 09:35:00 - [3]
 

The more space "they" take and not live in, the more I get to plex in peace. Buff titans and SC's!!!!

Lups
Caldari
Pandora Sphere
Narwhals Ate My Duck
Posted - 2011.08.24 09:42:00 - [4]
 

Teeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeesh

Pinky Denmark
Caldari
The Cursed Navy
Important Internet Spaceship League
Posted - 2011.08.24 10:27:00 - [5]
 

Don't hold your breath unless you can hold it for 3-6 months Wink

Headerman
Minmatar
Quovis
Shadow of xXDEATHXx
Posted - 2011.08.24 11:13:00 - [6]
 

Edited by: Headerman on 24/08/2011 11:13:32
Originally by: Cpt Tunguska
WHEN?


[Aeon, 166million + EHP]
Corpus X-Type Armor EM Hardener
Corpus X-Type Armor Thermic Hardener
Corpus X-Type Armor Kinetic Hardener
Corpus X-Type Armor Explosive Hardener
Corpus X-Type Armor Thermic Hardener
Corpus X-Type Armor Kinetic Hardener
Corpus X-Type Armor Explosive Hardener
Corpus X-Type Armor EM Hardener

Federation Navy Sensor Booster, Scan Resolution
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II

True Sansha Large EMP Smartbomb
True Sansha Heavy Energy Neutralizer
True Sansha Heavy Energy Neutralizer
Remote ECM Burst I
Capital Murky Energy Transmitter I
Capital Coaxial Regenerative Projector

Large Trimark Armor Pump II
Large Trimark Armor Pump II
Large Trimark Armor Pump II


Tyrfing x20
Firbolg x10
Bouncer II x20
Warrior II x20


Hopefully never. i need more than 166 million EHP from my Aeon :/

Seriously, if the OP can't think of a counter to that, then they need to rethink their purpose is in 0.0 space

Reami Sotsku
Minmatar
CRUX CORPORATE ARMADA
Posted - 2011.08.24 11:33:00 - [7]
 

create another capital class entirely? something cool, like a dred with 4 gunz and 10 fighters. and then an extra 10k in respective tank to a dred (shield or armor)super carrier pilots would cry. isk would flow since its an entirely new ship class it wouldn't be over powered until ppl got enough of them to start to make a difference. Once it does become over powered make another capital class, or make marauders viable in PvP.

or another simple fix is, keep super caps the same and make every ship in the game 15% better damage, tank, pg, cpu, ect... then make the moduals follow after this move so then sub-cap fleets can live just a bit longer to make a difference i mean imagine BS's doings some cool stuffs to big ships again.Wink

Peregrine
Caldari
Destructive Influence
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2011.08.24 11:46:00 - [8]
 

Sell a lot of gtc's get 110B and buy my titan and character, then you can stop whinning about people having **** that they spent 5 years in game earning the isk to buy.

Ventro69
Caldari
Manson Family
Corcoran State
Posted - 2011.08.24 11:52:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Reami Sotsku
make every ship in the game 15% better damageWink


Something wrong with you? Imagine, if just one sperm beat you, your parents could have had a doctor.

Snot Shot
Minmatar
Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers
The 0rphanage
Posted - 2011.08.24 11:54:00 - [10]
 


Honestly I am hoping that CCP buffs the Dreads seeing as I just started training for this class of ship even though, of all ship classes, this one seems to have absolutely no roll at this point in the game.

Once this happens I plan to camp the EC- gate with my Nag…………..cloaked up as always….YARRRR!!
.

Headerman
Minmatar
Quovis
Shadow of xXDEATHXx
Posted - 2011.08.24 12:11:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Reami Sotsku
create another capital class entirely? something cool, like a dred with 4 gunz and 10 fighters. and then an extra 10k in respective tank to a dred (shield or armor)super carrier pilots would cry. isk would flow since its an entirely new ship class it wouldn't be over powered until ppl got enough of them to start to make a difference. Once it does become over powered make another capital class, or make marauders viable in PvP.

or another simple fix is, keep super caps the same and make every ship in the game 15% better damage, tank, pg, cpu, ect... then make the moduals follow after this move so then sub-cap fleets can live just a bit longer to make a difference i mean imagine BS's doings some cool stuffs to big ships again.Wink


I think another cap is the best idea...

T2 dread, or a new class that is about 1/3rd or 1/2 the cost of a SC, has abouta third to half the HPs, 3/4 the damage, but either no jump drive what so ever (has to use gates) or a very limted jump drive...

No siege module (or maybe it should?), big drone bay too, and maybe a bonus to smart bomb usage

Zilero
Gallente
Unknown Soldiers
Test Friends Please Ignore
Posted - 2011.08.24 12:54:00 - [12]
 

The easy solution:

Play another game.

I'll see how the nerf works out, if it doesn't agree with me, I'm gone.

The "I WIN" button is simply ******ed.

Gotmah swaggaback
Caldari
Hells Angels MC
Posted - 2011.08.24 12:56:00 - [13]
 

Heh, in all seriousness. Not saying supercarriers arent overpowered or nuthin but.

Op is stupid. His argument, most of the people flying supercaps decided to fight under the same banner. And one smaller coalition with lesser hardware cannot fight this blob of supercaps?

Well duh yeah, what did you expect? To kill 100 sc's with drakes?
Sense sir, you make absolutely none.
I too believe super's are kiinda ruining the game and needs rebalancing. My suggestion would be to simply remove one target dd and perhaps give titans more turret/missile damage a bit of a boost to capital and structures. And remove everything but fighters and fighterbombers from the supercarrier dronebay, or atleast lower the limit "normal" drone limit to 5 without bonused damage to them.

This would mean that a supercap blob of lets say an arbitrary number of 100 would pose pretty much no threat to a subcap fleet at all. unless they get smartbombed or decide to sit completely still. But you get the idea. So yeah this would mean the **** would still be useful for capital fights and structure grinds. But atleast it wont single handedly wtfpwn a well put togheter subcap fleet.
And to be honest, this is the only problem with supers atm.

Supercaps ARE supposed to be good against other capital ships. And IF one coalition happens to have more supercaps then the other, well then it kinda makes sense they should have a greater chance to win provided both coalitions doesnt suck at using them?

Slugfests isnt the only way to win a war, this is a sandbox game and if you're completely outmatched in hardware, you either need to fight smarter or GTFO.

LiMu Bai
Caldari
Free-Space-Ranger
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2011.08.24 13:21:00 - [14]
 

Edited by: LiMu Bai on 24/08/2011 13:29:26
Originally by: Gotmah swaggaback

.......outmatched in hardware, you either need to fight smarter or GTFO.


How do you fight smarter vs. 40ish Titans?

Also ideas like new super-supercaps to kill supercaps Confused are misleading, since they also would be I-win buttons vs. subcaps.

From my pov NPC 0.0 space is currently spilling over of alliances which got kicked out of their homes by TEAM SUPERCAP. In few weeks there wont be any room left to breath, lol. North or South....ppl are everywhere abandoning their space and retreat into npc stations, cause it doesnt make any sense to resist vs. this superblob.

There are only 2 ways to end the misery:

1. Team Supercap un-naps each other and everybody starts to do their own stuff. -> This will probably never happen. They stick together for nearly 1.5 years now. They initially formed up and killed the Atlas-block and literally never stopped flying together, they even extended their bluelists and more supercap allies joined them. They will never stop doing "supercap-blobbing".

2. CCP acts. Like they always do if one ship/tactics is unbalanced and is over-used. -> This will probably work. I'd rather prefer useless supercaps (like pre-dominion) as POS ornaments, than having all of eve dominated by one coalition, just cause they can field hundrets supers. My favority is to nerf them that badly no one uses them anymore.

DeadDuck
Amarr
Cutting Edge Incorporated
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2011.08.24 14:18:00 - [15]
 

TBH the best way to balance the game would be a buff to dreads/Carriers. SC's are so overpowered and the numbers being fielded are so high that only buffing other ship classes the game can be balanced again. That or an abyssal nerf to SC's that TBH would be unfair for all the people that invested a lot of resources in buy/fitting them.

Why not allow sieged dreads to move but unable to receive RR for instance ? CCP by only allowing this would create a turning point in Alliance warfare.This is only an example but TBH the best way for this SC inflation to end is actually revamp Capitals.

During the MAX II war I've passed most of my time in a Dread fighting. During the DRF war in a BS... I think for more then an year now that I don't actually use a Dread to fight other ships. Not even shooting structures anymore. Caps and specially Dreads are completly outdated and they shouldn't.

Pinky Denmark
Caldari
The Cursed Navy
Important Internet Spaceship League
Posted - 2011.08.24 14:20:00 - [16]
 

Making supers useless is a bad idea - they should instead be very nice so people want to use them. But at the same time using them should have a real risc of losing them.
They are currently so massive they don't fear anything but a bigger capital fleet.

Egdon Heath
Caldari
Merch Industrial
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.08.24 14:21:00 - [17]
 

You all are idiots. Buffing a ship class or adding another OP ship to the game only continues to break the game further. There are far better ways of managing super-capital class ships than buffing. Small nerfs are far more reasonable and will balance game play for a far longer period of time (at least until ccp does something else ridiculously stupid).

A far more viable option to buffing ships would be to nerf super-capital tracking so they cannot reliably track sub-capital ships. It is ridiculous for titans to be able to reliably DD or shoot with guns cruiser sized ships, however they frequently do so (opposing logistics and command ships being likely targets). Nerf their ability to easily shoot sup-capital ships, and it increases the need for them to have a support fleet. They should still be able to wreak havoc upon capitals, super-capitals, and structures, but without a support fleet, an opposing sub-capital fleet should be able to slowly chew through them.

I don't, however, oppose a small buff to dreadnoughts, as they have largely become obsolete in this game of super-capitals. Make them relevant at least, but not OP.

Nik W
Caldari
Critical Mass Inc.
Imperial 0rder
Posted - 2011.08.24 14:36:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Egdon Heath
You all are idiots. Buffing a ship class or adding another OP ship to the game only continues to break the game further. There are far better ways of managing super-capital class ships than buffing. Small nerfs are far more reasonable and will balance game play for a far longer period of time (at least until ccp does something else ridiculously stupid).

A far more viable option to buffing ships would be to nerf super-capital tracking so they cannot reliably track sub-capital ships. It is ridiculous for titans to be able to reliably DD or shoot with guns cruiser sized ships, however they frequently do so (opposing logistics and command ships being likely targets). Nerf their ability to easily shoot sup-capital ships, and it increases the need for them to have a support fleet. They should still be able to wreak havoc upon capitals, super-capitals, and structures, but without a support fleet, an opposing sub-capital fleet should be able to slowly chew through them.

I don't, however, oppose a small buff to dreadnoughts, as they have largely become obsolete in this game of super-capitals. Make them relevant at least, but not OP.


WTH is the world coming to when the most sensible post in a thread is from a Goon? Cool

LiMu Bai
Caldari
Free-Space-Ranger
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2011.08.24 14:38:00 - [19]
 

Edited by: LiMu Bai on 24/08/2011 14:40:17
Originally by: DeadDuck
TBH the best way to balance the game would be a buff to dreads/Carriers. SC's are so overpowered and the numbers being fielded are so high that only buffing other ship classes the game can be balanced again. That or an abyssal nerf to SC's that TBH would be unfair for all the people that invested a lot of resources in buy/fitting them.

Why not allow sieged dreads to move but unable to receive RR for instance ? CCP by only allowing this would create a turning point in Alliance warfare.This is only an example but TBH the best way for this SC inflation to end is actually revamp Capitals.

During the MAX II war I've passed most of my time in a Dread fighting. During the DRF war in a BS... I think for more then an year now that I don't actually use a Dread to fight other ships. Not even shooting structures anymore. Caps and specially Dreads are completly outdated and they shouldn't.


Well.

Considering current fleet compositions you will loose up to 80 Dreads to doomsdays in the first 10 minutes of the fight. Even with newly designed Siegemode (which would be neccessary afte that many years) you can only die vs superfleets. And DDs are just one weapon, there are still fighterbombers and titanguns which will wtf**** all your capitals. As long as there are mass doomsdays every 10 minutes of 3million dmg each you CANT field capitals. Nor BS....nor..logis.....nor command ships :( In fact you cant do anything.... Best choice is to log off & unsub.

Edit: You need to force supers completly off the field.....abbyssal nerf sounds fine.

Egdon Heath
Caldari
Merch Industrial
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.08.24 15:01:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: LiMu Bai

Well.

Considering current fleet compositions you will loose up to 80 Dreads to doomsdays in the first 10 minutes of the fight. Even with newly designed Siegemode (which would be neccessary afte that many years) you can only die vs superfleets. And DDs are just one weapon, there are still fighterbombers and titanguns which will wtf**** all your capitals. As long as there are mass doomsdays every 10 minutes of 3million dmg each you CANT field capitals. Nor BS....nor..logis.....nor command ships :( In fact you cant do anything.... Best choice is to log off & unsub.

Edit: You need to force supers completly off the field.....abbyssal nerf sounds fine.


Making supers vulnerable to sub-capitals does this. Or forces supers to always be escorted by support fleets. A small boost to dreadnoughts could make them far more viable/dangerous to super-capital fleets as well without making them OP. Therefore, dropping 40-50 dreadnoughts onto supers for a suicide siege cycle could net 3-5 kills and make the losses relatively worthwhile. Dreads should not be buffed to the point where supers cannot reliably/easily kill them, however (as this essentially negates the role of super-capitals entirely).

Oscasre
Amarr
Anger Management
Posted - 2011.08.24 15:07:00 - [21]
 

Titans and Supers are fine .......... the problem is the number off them.

Increase the build requirements by x 10 and watch the numbers decline.

Egdon Heath
Caldari
Merch Industrial
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.08.24 15:09:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Oscasre
Titans and Supers are fine .......... the problem is the number off them.

Increase the build requirements by x 10 and watch the numbers decline.


Wrong. As long as they are as OP as they are, alliances, corps, and individuals will still buy them. This also does not affect the current number of supers or their efficacy, only the amount that may be built in the future, so it does not serve to solve any kind of problems.

Ur235
Gallente
Mind Games.
0ccupational Hazzard
Posted - 2011.08.24 15:18:00 - [23]
 

Edited by: Ur235 on 24/08/2011 15:24:33

I think the best way to even it out would be to limit the amount of supercaps avaiable to deploy per alliance. No idea what a good limit would be but it would be and also to reduce there jump range hugely so if you have all your supers deployed along 1 front then someone else decides to attack you somewhere else it would take like 15 capital jumps to get back to where you want to be and increase the fuel costs for supers like 10000 isotopes per lightyear and the fuel bay can only hold about 40k isotopes sure there supercarrier costs 14X more than a normal carrier but I think therefore its only fair the fuel costs to jump it around should also be 14X more as expensive

So not only would you have to jump a hell of alot more to move your supers over eve the fuel costs would become horrendus for something like 100 supers infact it would be so high it would be almost impossible to obtain enough fuel of each type to move halfway across the galaxy. So they decide to only take 20 instead of 100 and everyone else will be reduced to either running sites with their super cap character or get rid of it all togeather and jump in a subcap to get involved in the fight im sure that would make the supers coalition happy.

Obv this would favour the defending side if there supers were already in there home systems though and might make someones home space impenetrable but at least we would have alot more 0.0 alliances around and alot less supers being built as they can only commit so many to an attack

Oscasre
Amarr
Anger Management
Posted - 2011.08.24 15:22:00 - [24]
 

Quote:
Wrong. As long as they are as OP as they are, alliances, corps, and individuals will still buy them. This also does not affect the current number of supers or their efficacy, only the amount that may be built in the future, so it does not serve to solve any kind of problems.


Complete Rubbish .... they have been built unchecked for years and in your own admission increasing the build cost by 10 x would
effect the future .....

The ships are fine the problem is the numbers like most things in this game .......

Remove Titans and Supers and the alliances will be sitting at the gates in 1000 Caps, remove them and it will be a 1000 BS and ditto ....
All capitals need the build time and minerals increasing by x 10 and then the numbers will drop

Egdon Heath
Caldari
Merch Industrial
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.08.24 15:44:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Oscasre
Quote:
Wrong. As long as they are as OP as they are, alliances, corps, and individuals will still buy them. This also does not affect the current number of supers or their efficacy, only the amount that may be built in the future, so it does not serve to solve any kind of problems.


Complete Rubbish .... they have been built unchecked for years and in your own admission increasing the build cost by 10 x would
effect the future .....

The ships are fine the problem is the numbers like most things in this game .......

Remove Titans and Supers and the alliances will be sitting at the gates in 1000 Caps, remove them and it will be a 1000 BS and ditto ....
All capitals need the build time and minerals increasing by x 10 and then the numbers will drop


So what does this do for fleets currently when an opposing supercap fleet can decimate your entire 200-500 man fleet within a matter of minutes? It does nothing. And moving forwards, it does little as well, as those entities with hundreds of supercaps will continue to build their numbers (albeit at a slower rate) and other smaller entities will continue to build their super-capital fleets (once again, at a slower rate) with the same game breaking mechanics. Without a reliable threat to super-capitals (or a reliable weakness within them) they are just purely OP.

I am not advocating removing supers at all. Merely balancing them in a manner that does not break them into uselessness, and not buffing something else in a manner that makes that ship now OP.

Snyderm
Gallente
Interwebs Cooter Explosion
Fatal Ascension
Posted - 2011.08.24 15:54:00 - [26]
 

Edited by: Snyderm on 24/08/2011 15:55:05
oops

White Tree
Gallente
Broski Federation
Tactical Narcotics Team
Posted - 2011.08.24 16:03:00 - [27]
 

DEATH TO SUPERCAPS.

DEATH TO TITANS.

Andski
Caldari
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.08.24 16:22:00 - [28]
 

Make supercaps either vulnerable to ewar or unable to receive tracking links and remote sensor boosts. Problem solved.

Spectre80
Caldari
The Knights Templar
Cascade Imminent
Posted - 2011.08.24 16:30:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: White Tree
DEATH TO SUPERCAPS.

DEATH TO TITANS.


this. i know many people who are just waiting to see what ccp will do with this issue and if it is not sufficient most likely quit the game.

Grath Telkin
Amarr
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2011.08.24 16:50:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Cpt Tunguska
Currently most of conquerable space in eve-online is owned by one single supercap coalition. They are forming huge Titan spams and kill off everything in their way, without the slightest chance to counter this playstyle. Right now the last independant alliance is under fire. They will fall soon, they dont have a chance to beat the Titan blobs and doomsday spams. Subcapital ships and capitals cant do anything beside dieing in horrible lag, caused by hundrets of supercarriers and their 20 fighters each.

I just want to ask the question:

WHEN?

How hard is it to nerf 2 shipclasses to make room for a more diverse playstyle? What takes that much time? Just remove them from frontlines by reducing their stats by 95% and make subcaps/capital ships the major players again, like it was before Dominion Thats the only way to save the server from beeing 100% uniform.

Supercaps were buffed with dominion, and it made sense at this time. They were more or less evenly distibuted amongst different alliances. But then something happened ccp could not reckon with: Most supercap heavy alliances like IT (rdn), PL, NCdot, Evoke, white noise, red and many others banded together and formed one huge supercap-alliance, which is currently burning down the server, just by jumping in titans/scs. And once it formed up, individual supercap pilots kept running to them, just to make it worse.

This heavily uneven distrubution of supercaps cant be ever reversed. Like 80% of all acive pvping supercaps play in the same team. Theres no counter and no hope with current game mechanics. Remove DDs, remove Titans!

Dot it now Cool


If you nerf supers to make sub caps 'matter again' (protip they matter now) then you need to re introduce the AOE DD so that sheer numbers aren't all that matters, again.

That time in EVE was as gay as it gets, and theres absolutely no reason to go back to 'xxxx number of ships means you wing'


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