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John Ryuk
Posted - 2011.08.24 02:18:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: John Ryuk on 24/08/2011 02:24:28
This question is in regards to Cynosural Field in Wormhole Space and is taken from a context in the Rules so here first of all Definitions.
Cynosural field- also known colloquially as a "cyno", is a cosmic anomaly that acts as a pseudo-gravity well which connects spact time.
Wormhole-is a hypothetical topological feature of spacetime that would be, fundamentally, a "shortcut" through spacetime

Now, you state that you can not use a Cyno field in WH Space, however WH space is still normal space in spacetime a WH just connects you to it via subspace.
A Cyno field by it's own definition is a artifical wormhole that connects t***laces in spacetime. So in effect unless you can give me a reason as to why you can not connect two places, even tho they are far away , traveling time is not considered when you bring to points in timespace to the same point for travel. and as we know spacetime contains a compact region Ω, and if the topology of Ω is of the form Ω ~ R x Σ, where Σ is a three-manifold of the nontrivial topology.

Now with that being said, there is no sciencetific reason that you can not use a cyno field in WH space, I do belive in order to do it you need to train cyno skills to lv 5 and it should take 6 months to train it as the tactical advantage it brings.

Source: Roommate has a Ph.D in Theoretical Physics and Applied ScienceLaughing

Eagleclaw274
Posted - 2011.08.24 02:19:00 - [2]
 

He actually brings up a VERY good point... and i do believe this is worded quite well.

I do believe this is a nice suggestion.

Yudraciell Zroc
Posted - 2011.08.24 02:22:00 - [3]
 

/signed
*bump*
I agree....

Jack Tronic
Posted - 2011.08.24 02:50:00 - [4]
 

Edited by: Jack Tronic on 24/08/2011 02:54:02
Edited by: Jack Tronic on 24/08/2011 02:53:16
Actually CCP broke the cyno ban in wspace awhile ago but nobody noticed. You can indeed press the magical cyno module and it will light the cyno(originally it didn't but this is what broke). So ;)

But main reason is the distances involved just like kspace. Almost all wspace regions are too far apart from each other to facilitate a jump. Inside regions is the only most possible way for jumps to even remotely occur but systems are also spread far apart ;)

If you say cynos should work regardless of distances, then start applying your logic to kspace where the distance limitations come into play as well.

On a side note, it's to foster wspace's freedom from capital blobs which would just run around reinforcing EVERYTHING and making the space uninhabitable for smaller groups.

John Ryuk
Posted - 2011.08.24 02:58:00 - [5]
 

Edited by: John Ryuk on 24/08/2011 03:01:53
I'm not saying there shouldn't be some kind of limitation to mass as the farther out you go could be justified as a loss of mass.

However,
wormholes's do not work like walking from london to china, as that a WH in itself bends spacetime bringing two points into one, like folding a piece of paper and putting a hole on either ends......

Did none of you watch Bill Nye as a kid.....?

Jack Tronic
Posted - 2011.08.24 03:00:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: John Ryuk
I'm not saying there shouldn't be some kind of limitation to mass as the farther out you go could be justified as a loss of mass.

However,
wormholes's do not work like walking from london to china, as that a WH in itself bends spacetime bringin two points into one, like folding a string.


So then why can't I jump my dread from Oasa to Branch in one cyno?

John Ryuk
Posted - 2011.08.24 03:01:00 - [7]
 

Edited by: John Ryuk on 24/08/2011 03:02:15
thatsssss what i'm getting atttttttt
You should be able tooooooooo

Jack Tronic
Posted - 2011.08.24 03:05:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: John Ryuk
Edited by: John Ryuk on 24/08/2011 03:02:15
thatsssss what i'm getting atttttttt
You should be able tooooooooo


Then why focus it on wspace? :P

John Ryuk
Posted - 2011.08.24 03:06:00 - [9]
 

duhhhh, because that's where it currently would benefit me.YARRRR!! and keep this game as realalistic as they try to make it.

Emperor Salazar
Caldari
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2011.08.24 03:19:00 - [10]
 

Game balance trumps physics.

Accept it.

Xirin
Posted - 2011.08.24 03:27:00 - [11]
 

Edited by: Xirin on 24/08/2011 03:29:13
Jump drives don't traverse normal space. Thus, while you are right that a wormhole bends spacetime and effectively means the two systems are actually very close to each other, the jump drive doesn't care. It can't "see" the wormhole. So as far as the jump drive is concerned, the systems are still very far apart. And even if it could see that tiny hole in spacetime, trying to aim the jump through it would be like threading a needle with oven mitts, on a roller-coaster, in a hurricane, at night.

Also, to clarify a point, the cynosaural field is the gravitational beacon which allows ships with jump drives to jump to a specific point. Without it, they might end up in a random location, probably at the bottom of a gravity well (aka inside a star or planet). Rumour has it if you blow up a cyno after a ship has jumped but before it appears in the target system, strange things happen and the ship appears at a random point in the system moving at a ridiculous velocity. I've never seen this happen though.

Anyway, your roommate probably has a better understanding of this than I do. But real-life physics aside, it would be game breaking if you could get capital ships into low-class wormholes just by lighting a cyno and jumping in from a system near to the entrance. Also, I would hazard a guess that most dedicated capital pilots (read: super cap pilots) have their cyno skills to level 5 already.

Edit: I think you might mean something different, in that "why can't my jump drive's wormhole go anywhere?" Because that's not how New Eden's wormhole technology works. It's range based. Hence why the wormholes from sleeper space are so "valuable" to Sansha's Nation, since they have unlimited range.

Veronica Kerrigan
Minmatar
Hand Of Midas
F0RCEFUL ENTRY
Posted - 2011.08.24 03:57:00 - [12]
 

The problem is that WH space is far enough away to cause a destability, that is already inherent to how you get there, that would render the cynosural as too weak of a target for the capital jump drive. The only reason the WHs used to get there happen is because they would naturally be much stronger, but have already started to fall apart

John Ryuk
Posted - 2011.08.24 04:38:00 - [13]
 

Logic Accepted

TY :)

Yumi Sagara
Posted - 2011.08.24 05:47:00 - [14]
 

Considering cynos have a range limit, WH's clearly dont so why not have a new module, an artificial WH generator that could link any 2 WH systems (not too K-Space).

Sanshas have this technology??

The mass limit would correspond to a "natural" WH and mass stability would be smaller than a "natural" hole.

Give this ability to BLOPs and then they will become useful in WH space and also restrict its use to covops ships like the covert cyno.

Ingvar Angst
Amarr
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
Talocan United
Posted - 2011.08.24 11:45:00 - [15]
 

Edited by: Ingvar Angst on 24/08/2011 11:47:07
You can't connect to wormholes because you need to know where you're connecting. Correct me if I'm wrong, but to lite a cyno you pretty well need to know where you are and where you're going. Wormholes, you don't really know where you are. You don't even know if you're in the same galaxy.

It's like being in Boston and going to visit a friend in New York. You have the address, you go visit them. Now, imagine trying to go visit someone that only has a street address, but no city, state or even country.

Yumi Sagara
Posted - 2011.08.24 23:45:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Ingvar Angst
Edited by: Ingvar Angst on 24/08/2011 11:47:07
You can't connect to wormholes because you need to know where you're connecting. Correct me if I'm wrong, but to lite a cyno you pretty well need to know where you are and where you're going. Wormholes, you don't really know where you are. You don't even know if you're in the same galaxy.

It's like being in Boston and going to visit a friend in New York. You have the address, you go visit them. Now, imagine trying to go visit someone that only has a street address, but no city, state or even country.


think of it as working just like a covert cyno except with the mass limitations and it only works in WH space, ie cyno lit at destination WH, BLOPs at origin WH.

Nyarlothotep
The Blue Dagger Mercenery Agency
Posted - 2011.08.25 00:14:00 - [17]
 

The real reason is that the wormholes are a link to the future. The Sleepers are evolved Rogue Drones. They are trying to create WHs to the past to bootstrap their predecessors to a higher level of technology. No matter the location of the WHs, the future is too far to create a cyno.

raney ilara
Posted - 2011.08.25 07:16:00 - [18]
 

Edited by: raney ilara on 25/08/2011 07:18:47

it's because you can't get a permanant fix on external space.. it's too fluid. If you allow it, you should at least make it so the person who goes into a cyno gets hoplessly lost.

PS I have a physics major friend who once tried to prove that life is not possible. just because they study physics does not mean they have any sense.


Marcus Gideon
Gallente
Federal Defense Operations
Posted - 2011.08.25 17:10:00 - [19]
 

How about allowing Cyno in/out of W-space... so long as the cyno is on one side of an exit WH, and the Capital ship is on the other.

You can't just light a cyno in some random WH, and hope to get your Capital fleet in there. But once you've found the traditional exit, you can use the Jump Drive to push the ship through the WH.

An added limitation, just in case, using a WH for this kind of transit immediately collapses the WH regardless of time or mass remaining. That way people can attempt to get their Rorqs out when they sell a WH, but you can't immediately send a Cap fleet into a hostile system.

Magnus Orin
Minmatar
Wildly Inappropriate
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.08.25 17:33:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: John Ryuk


Now with that being said, there is no sciencetific reason that you can not use a cyno field in WH space, I do belive in order to do it you need to train cyno skills to lv 5 and it should take 6 months to train it as the tactical advantage it brings.

Source: Roommate has a Ph.D in Theoretical Physics and Applied ScienceLaughing


This is the part where John Ryuk forgot he was playing a video game.


 

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