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Jake Rourke
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.08.23 23:27:00 - [1]
 

Hey folks. Currently, I'm running around in a Caracal working on lvl 2s. My standings will be high enough for lvl 3s when I get home tonight, since Connections 4 will finish while I'm here at work. Here's my problem. I don't have near the recommended skills to run a battlecruiser (I'm still 54 days away). Can I run lvl 3s effectively in a cruiser? I've asked in-game, and I've received variations on these 4 answers:

A)"Absolutely! It's easy-peasy!"
b)"ROFL... No."
c)"Yes, but it's pretty tough. You have to kite everything and it takes forever."
d)"No, just get in a BC anyway. You don't necessarily need those skills."

If you don't think I can, what should I do? Keep running level 2s and raise my standings towards 4s that way?

If you think it is possible, what cruiser/fitting would you recommend? I have a Vexor, a Thorax, an Exqueror(haha) and a Caracal. I can fly anything(t1) in Caldari or Gallente, and I'm really close on Min and Amarr.

Thanks!

Versuvius Marii
Posted - 2011.08.23 23:38:00 - [2]
 

Yes, a Caracal can indeed put up a fight in a lvl 3. 2 LSE and 3 hardeners of choice to suit, and ballistic controls in the lows. That should be enough tank and spank to do the job.
Still, never hurt to be careful. Read this and make it your PVE bible. Just look at the link, it should be self-explanatory.

Also, you'll fly your missions a lot better if you concentrate on one race/tank/subsystem. Judging from your ability to fly all the races(or near enough), I would guess you've your other skills. Spaceship Command is nice to pour SP in to, but it's worthless unless you back it up with other skills.
For a Caracal for example, you'll want to train missile skills(and not all of them, e.g. rockets, standards, heavy, HAM - train the one you want to be good in and then move on), engineering skills for your shields, and maybe some basic drones as the Caracal has a 10 m3 drone bay. Or is it 15? I'm too lazy to look it up..

Anyway. The point is stop cross-training, and specialise. Once you've specialised enough, then cross train.

Aamrr
Posted - 2011.08.23 23:40:00 - [3]
 

I'm too tired to answer your questions in full, but anything a cruiser can do a battlecruiser will do better (provided it can actually get into the site in question. Some exploration sites don't allow battlecruisers.)

Train battlecruisers to 3 and get in a Drake. It will outperform your Caracal in every category that matters for almost no additional cost.

Unimaginative Person
Posted - 2011.08.23 23:40:00 - [4]
 

Just get a battle cruiser. Assuming you already have caldari cruiser to III it will take you 4 hours to get battle cruiser II to get a drake. Dont listen to people that say you cant fly a battle cruiser without the recommended skills. It uses the same fitting as a cruiser, there's no reason NOT to use a battle cruiser.

Jake Rourke
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.08.24 00:57:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Versuvius Marii

Anyway. The point is stop cross-training, and specialise. Once you've specialised enough, then cross train.


Thanks. I'm one of those people that wants to try everything. I'll just hold off on crosstraining for now.

Aamrr and UP, thanks for the input. I'll pick up either a Drake or a Myrmidon and try to fit it.

Th0rG0d
Terminal Pharmaceuticals Inc.
Posted - 2011.08.24 01:24:00 - [6]
 

I couldn't fly a cruiser in lvl 3s until I had tech 2 tank and weapons, but that was also before I used eve-survival. Depending on your fitting skills, the caracal should do well. That said, the drake will do much better, and be more forgiving with it's improved tank. Be sure to rig either one though, it will be a vast improvement over non-rigged anything.

Rhathyl
Posted - 2011.08.24 01:55:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Jake Rourke

d)"No, just get in a BC anyway. You don't necessarily need those skills."



Even without the recommended skills a drake has more launcher hardpoints and a better tank than a caracal. hop into one.

Jake Rourke
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.08.24 02:07:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Th0rG0d
I couldn't fly a cruiser in lvl 3s until I had tech 2 tank and weapons, but that was also before I used eve-survival. Depending on your fitting skills, the caracal should do well. That said, the drake will do much better, and be more forgiving with it's improved tank. Be sure to rig either one though, it will be a vast improvement over non-rigged anything.


Looks like I'll probably have to go BC then, since I probably would have a harder time fitting the Caracal and I'll likely need the benefits of the BC hull.

Originally by: Rhathyl

Even without the recommended skills a drake has more launcher hardpoints and a better tank than a caracal. hop into one.


THanks. I'll probably go Drake then. My drone skills are probably my strongest suit, but I'm having a lot of fun in the Caracal. I'd like to keep that going.

mxzf
Minmatar
Shovel Bros
Posted - 2011.08.24 03:07:00 - [9]
 

Edited by: mxzf on 24/08/2011 03:07:54
Edited by: mxzf on 24/08/2011 03:06:47
Originally by: Jake Rourke
d)"No, just get in a BC anyway. You don't necessarily need those skills."


This.

And, TBH, if you're asking this, I doubt you'd be able to solo most 3s in a cruiser yet (besides the ones that you can just drop in, kill some NPC or loot a can, and be done), you need good skills and lots of RL skills to do so. However, you don't need the recommended skills before flying a ship; they're just that, recommended if you want to use it to the fullest extent. I've been flying a Drake in lvl 3s and even some lvl 4s for over a year (more like two years) and it would take over 19d for me to get all the certs for "recommended" skills, but I've been doing fine. There are a lot of recommended skills that don't really help that much.

I mean, Warp Drive Operation 3? You really don't need that to use a Drake, it just makes it easier to warp, you don't need that to use a ship effectively. Same with stuff like Electronics Upgrades 5 and Signature Analysis 4, they might be nice, but they really aren't that important for missioning in a Drake. There are some things that you do need, but those aren't it.

If you have your basic fitting and cap skills well done (lvl 5 in Engineering and Electronics, atleast 4 each in Weapon Upgrades and the cap skills), can fit a T2 tank (LSE2, T2 Hardeners, DC2), and have decent missile skills, you can fly a Drake fine for lvl 3s as long as you pay attention to what you're doing and check Eve-Survival.

tl;dr: Grab a Drake and go for it, you'll do fine.

Jake Rourke
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.08.24 03:45:00 - [10]
 

Edited by: Jake Rourke on 24/08/2011 03:45:11
Originally by: mxzf

tl;dr: Grab a Drake and go for it, you'll do fine.


If you took the time to reply with something helpful, there's no such thing as tl;dr. Thanks.


Does this fit look good(with t1 equivalents)? I might need different launchers. I'm not sure.

Potato IQ
Posted - 2011.08.24 08:01:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Jake Rourke
Does this fit look good(with t1 equivalents)? I might need different launchers. I'm not sure.


Yes. Get your T2 tank sorted ASAP and then get your missile/drone skills up. And a Drake can do 4s, but will be slow and painful

Klymer
Posted - 2011.08.24 08:19:00 - [12]
 

Agreed, get the Drake setup and running but also look at that Raven fit he has linked on that page and be thinking about it as it's a much better solution for doing 4s. Once you have the Raven squared away, then you can look towards the Golem Very Happy

Aesiron
Amarr
Deep Excavation
Army of Dark Shadows
Posted - 2011.08.24 09:19:00 - [13]
 

Some cruisers can do Level 3s, but Battlecruisers are definitely much better. And Level 3s aren't that much different from lvl 2s other than higher damage and more money reward.

Salpad
Caldari
Carebears with Attitude
Posted - 2011.08.24 11:25:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Rhathyl
Originally by: Jake Rourke

d)"No, just get in a BC anyway. You don't necessarily need those skills."



Even without the recommended skills a drake has more launcher hardpoints and a better tank than a caracal. hop into one.


I agree.

IIRC Caracal doesn't have any gank bonus, so it's 5 unbonused launchers (range bonus doesn't count) vs 7 bonuses launchers, even if the bonus is small for low Battlecruiser skill level.

Nevermind tank. For level 3 missions (and even more for level 4) you need to be able to gank.

Ashgoz Kouvo
Posted - 2011.08.24 11:35:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Salpad
Originally by: Rhathyl
Originally by: Jake Rourke

d)"No, just get in a BC anyway. You don't necessarily need those skills."



Even without the recommended skills a drake has more launcher hardpoints and a better tank than a caracal. hop into one.


I agree.

IIRC Caracal doesn't have any gank bonus, so it's 5 unbonused launchers (range bonus doesn't count) vs 7 bonuses launchers, even if the bonus is small for low Battlecruiser skill level.

Nevermind tank. For level 3 missions (and even more for level 4) you need to be able to gank.


Both ships have a damage bonus to kinetic damage.

Nikita LaFem
Posted - 2011.08.24 12:20:00 - [16]
 

The Caracal is more than adequate fro any level 3. The key to it is to maintain your range and kite everything to death. If you can train T2 launchers they give you the ability to use Scourge Precision missiles for frigs, standard Scourge for Destroyers and Cruisers, and Scourge Fury's for BC's and the random BS.

Yes, the Drake is double the ship in every sense and ends up making L3's easy mode ( as your skills and fittings improve they are flat out boring). That is when L4's become fun in the Drake. Then you get a Tengu and find L4's get boring.

Don't over tank the Drake. An AB, 2xLSE, and 2xinvuls will omni pretty much every L3 and most L4 missions with T2 mods and decent shield skills. Lows can be 1xDamage Cntl and the rest BCU's.

Have run this forever with purged rigs in missions.

Still love the Drake, but a Hurricane is a nice alternative and gives som visceral fun when fit with Artillery.

Good luck.

xenodia
Gallente
DYNAMIC INTERVENTION
ORPHANS OF EVE
Posted - 2011.08.24 15:42:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Jake Rourke
Hey folks. Currently, I'm running around in a Caracal working on lvl 2s. My standings will be high enough for lvl 3s when I get home tonight, since Connections 4 will finish while I'm here at work. Here's my problem. I don't have near the recommended skills to run a battlecruiser (I'm still 54 days away). Can I run lvl 3s effectively in a cruiser? I've asked in-game, and I've received variations on these 4 answers:

A)"Absolutely! It's easy-peasy!"
b)"ROFL... No."
c)"Yes, but it's pretty tough. You have to kite everything and it takes forever."
d)"No, just get in a BC anyway. You don't necessarily need those skills."

If you don't think I can, what should I do? Keep running level 2s and raise my standings towards 4s that way?

If you think it is possible, what cruiser/fitting would you recommend? I have a Vexor, a Thorax, an Exqueror(haha) and a Caracal. I can fly anything(t1) in Caldari or Gallente, and I'm really close on Min and Amarr.

Thanks!



You can do lvl 3s in an assault frigate.... its all a question of skills, and how efficient you will be at doing it. To answer your question, yes you could do them in a cruiser, provided you know what youre doing and have good skills.

Osfrid
Posted - 2011.08.24 17:33:00 - [18]
 

Here is one build I used to have before behing able to fly something better:
Quote:
[Vexor, PvE M2/M3]
Shield Power Relay II
Shield Power Relay II
Shield Power Relay II
Shield Power Relay II

Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II

Dual 150mm Prototype I Gauss Gun, Iridium Charge M
Dual 150mm Prototype I Gauss Gun, Iridium Charge M
Dual 150mm Prototype I Gauss Gun, Iridium Charge M
Dual 150mm Prototype I Gauss Gun, Iridium Charge M
Small Tractor Beam I

Medium Core Defence Field Purger I
Medium Core Defence Field Purger I
Medium Core Defence Field Purger I


Hobgoblin II x5
Hobgoblin II x1
Hammerhead II x2
Ogre I x2


Usually more than enough tank for any L3, DPS is really good (replace T2 drone you can't have with T1, same with T2 mod with cheap/named one like type-D SPR and Azeotropic ward ), half afk farming, quite good cargo hold (480m3) for looting/courrier...

This build is also a good way to avoid Myrmidon as Gallente to jump directly to the Dominix but really... if you don't have the required skill to fly a drake (with just BC 2 and tanking/missile skill at 3/4), you shouldn't jump to M3 so quickly.

Richard Bong
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.08.24 23:49:00 - [19]
 

what skills take 54 days to fly a drake?
if you can fly a decent Caracal train BC 3 and get into a drake ASAP.
It wont really shine until you can fit a T2 tank but a even with a t1 it will still be awesome.

Also why are you training every damn race?
Caldari is awesome at PvE - Caracal->Drake->Tengu for PvE ignore all rail gun platforms.
Minnmitar is awesome at PvP
those 2 have a lot of overlap in skills so there is a lot less time spent cross training.

Dont train gallente
Amarr is good but why train it unless your fleet doctrine needs you to.

So in short if you are sticking with PvE stay on the caldari missile boats. Immediately train battle cruisers 3 and get into a drake with arbalest heavy missile launchers (until you get around to training t2.) Once you have BC3 get yourself a t2 shield tank. The drakes hellacious tank will make up for the mediocre DPS.

So right now set BC to III(you can now fly a drake) -> Shield Management IV->Shield Operation IV->Shield Upgrades IV->Tactical Shield Manipulation IV->Energy Grid Upgrades IV(you can now fit an awesome t2 tank)->Drones V (you can now use 5 light drones)-> Battle cruiser to IV->t2 heavy missiles(Not heavy assault missiles)
Also train weapon upgrades to IV, engineering V and Electronics V so you can fit everything easier.

Jake Rourke
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.08.25 04:59:00 - [20]
 

Wow, I worked all day and came home to a bunch of replies. Thanks for all of the input. I appreciate it.


Originally by: Richard Bong
what skills take 54 days to fly a drake?


It's not the required skills, it's the recommended ones. I'm also pretty noobly. We're talkin just over 2 million sp.

Originally by: Richard Bong
Also why are you training every damn race?


Mainly because when I started I didn't really know better. I would get bored and train for stuff just to check the ships out. Also, I just realized this is my Minmatar alt. The character that this info is for is Gallente, and I started by using Gallente ships. I've been using the Vexor the most and while it rocks on the missions, it's getting pretty boring.

Originally by: Richard Bong
Caldari is awesome at PvE - Caracal->Drake->Tengu for PvE ignore all rail gun platforms.
Minnmitar is awesome at PvP
those 2 have a lot of overlap in skills so there is a lot less time spent cross training.


Sounds good. I'm definitely interested in Minmatar ships down the road.

Originally by: Richard Bong
Dont train gallente


Too late. Drones is what I've taken the farthest, so at least I can use that elsewhere. I think I'm done with Gallente, however, at least for the foreseeable future. I'm finding Caldari ships to be more fun and see myself going Minmatar if I cross-train more down the road(after I'm running 4s easily).

Originally by: Richard Bong
So in short if you are sticking with PvE stay on the caldari missile boats. Immediately train battle cruisers 3 and get into a drake with arbalest heavy missile launchers (until you get around to training t2.) Once you have BC3 get yourself a t2 shield tank. The drakes hellacious tank will make up for the mediocre DPS.

So right now set BC to III(you can now fly a drake) -> Shield Management IV->Shield Operation IV->Shield Upgrades IV->Tactical Shield Manipulation IV->Energy Grid Upgrades IV(you can now fit an awesome t2 tank)->Drones V (you can now use 5 light drones)-> Battle cruiser to IV->t2 heavy missiles(Not heavy assault missiles)
Also train weapon upgrades to IV, engineering V and Electronics V so you can fit everything easier.


Thanks for this. I already have Drones V, but I could definitely use the rest as a guide. Copy/pasted to my desktop.

Legobrick Ormand
Posted - 2011.08.25 12:41:00 - [21]
 

Hey Jake

I have only been playing 6 weeks or so, and have only just passed 2mil SP. With a Drake and a cookie cutter setup I am doing level 3's fairly easily, some are more difficult than others but with the right hardeners and a bit of thought you can get through them with few issues.

Give it a go, you don't need the ideal setup or a perfect set of skills, just need a bit of thinking and occasionally a little luck :)

mama guru
Gallente
Thundercats
Posted - 2011.08.25 14:05:00 - [22]
 

Edited by: mama guru on 25/08/2011 14:05:34
Originally by: Jake Rourke
Hey folks. Currently, I'm running around in a Caracal working on lvl 2s. My standings will be high enough for lvl 3s when I get home tonight, since Connections 4 will finish while I'm here at work. Here's my problem. I don't have near the recommended skills to run a battlecruiser (I'm still 54 days away). Can I run lvl 3s effectively in a cruiser? I've asked in-game, and I've received variations on these 4 answers:

A)"Absolutely! It's easy-peasy!"
b)"ROFL... No."
c)"Yes, but it's pretty tough. You have to kite everything and it takes forever."
d)"No, just get in a BC anyway. You don't necessarily need those skills."

If you don't think I can, what should I do? Keep running level 2s and raise my standings towards 4s that way?

If you think it is possible, what cruiser/fitting would you recommend? I have a Vexor, a Thorax, an Exqueror(haha) and a Caracal. I can fly anything(t1) in Caldari or Gallente, and I'm really close on Min and Amarr.

Thanks!




If you can't run level 3's in a BC you can't do it in a Cruiser either. You do not need a full t2 get up. Back when i did my first few level 3, even level 4 missions did not have a T2 fit in any respect to the ship I was flying. (ferox for level 3's before the drake was added, dominix for level 4's)


Use that eve survival link which was linked earlier and use it for everything.


 

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