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Aralieus
Amarr
Shadowbane Syndicate
Posted - 2011.08.23 01:50:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Aralieus on 23/08/2011 01:50:53
Sup...I'm looking for a decent solo/small gang pvp fit. ISK won't be a issue but I'm not going to put over 3~4 100 mil into it as its already a little squishy. All skills need to fly properly at lvl 5 so that's not a issue either. Thanks in advance, Aral

Wylee Coyote
Posted - 2011.08.23 06:29:00 - [2]
 

Originally by: Aralieus
Edited by: Aralieus on 23/08/2011 01:50:53
Sup...I'm looking for a decent solo/small gang pvp fit. ISK won't be a issue but I'm not going to put over 3~4 100 mil into it as its already a little squishy. All skills need to fly properly at lvl 5 so that's not a issue either. Thanks in advance, Aral


Wassup yoyoghettoblingblingdawghomieGfunkmoney, on the realz you be trippin' dawg. Ain't no thang like a GOOGLE SEARCH BATTLECLINIC THANG yo...

Aralieus
Amarr
Shadowbane Syndicate
Posted - 2011.08.23 06:38:00 - [3]
 

Are you high?

King Rothgar
Autocannons Anonymous
Posted - 2011.08.23 06:40:00 - [4]
 

God damn you write annoyingly, I want to reach through your monitor and punch you. That said, here's a cookie cutter navy omen fit:

[Omen Navy Issue, really uninspired half assed fit for people who can't write]
Damage Control II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Adaptive Nano Plating II
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II

Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive
Warp Disruptor II
Small Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 400

Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Conflagration M
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Conflagration M
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Conflagration M
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Conflagration M
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Conflagration M
Small Energy Neutralizer II

Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I


Hobgoblin II x5

Aralieus
Amarr
Shadowbane Syndicate
Posted - 2011.08.23 06:49:00 - [5]
 

Posting with my phone, its rather difficult. I do apologize for the broken sentences. That fit looks solid but would a AB be better? I'm sure a c~type anp would be a better subsitute than the T2 one.

Scorpionidae
Posted - 2011.08.23 07:57:00 - [6]
 

Watch This Its has some Omen Navy issue in it!

Scorpionidae Very Happy

Suleiman Shouaa
The Tuskers
Posted - 2011.08.23 10:42:00 - [7]
 

Don't bother with an Armor Navy Omen, it's effectively outclassed in every way by the Armor Harbinger which does more DPS, has a Medium Neut, has a 4th mid so can fit a Web and a Cap Booster and has a bigger dronebay, not to mention a greater tank. Only those who have little experience in solo/small gang PvP bother using such a fit.

Go with a shield fit like so to maximise the one advantage it has over the Harbinger - it's speed:

[Omen Navy Issue, Glider]
Damage Control II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II

Large Shield Extender II
Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive
Warp Disruptor II

Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Medium Energy Neutralizer II

Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I


Hornet EC-300 x5


Just remember to pulse the MWD when required since the cap isn't great. Can replace the 2nd TE with a Capacitor Power Relay to alleviate this, at the cost of some tracking.

Nomad Vherokic
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.08.23 11:03:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Suleiman Shouaa
Don't bother with an Armor Navy Omen, it's effectively outclassed in every way by the Armor Harbinger which does more DPS, has a Medium Neut, has a 4th mid so can fit a Web and a Cap Booster and has a bigger dronebay, not to mention a greater tank.


It's also a Battle-cruiser sized hull, so the comparison isn't exactly fair. However, all your other advice is good! ;)

Duchess Starbuckington
Posted - 2011.08.23 11:20:00 - [9]
 

Quote:
It's also a Battle-cruiser sized hull, so the comparison isn't exactly fair. However, all your other advice is good! ;)


So what? The fact is that battlecruiser hull does the same thing better for a lower price and the same skillset. It's more than a match for the ONI in every way except one: mobility. Use that.

Suleiman Shouaa
The Tuskers
Posted - 2011.08.23 11:35:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Nomad Vherokic
Originally by: Suleiman Shouaa
Don't bother with an Armor Navy Omen, it's effectively outclassed in every way by the Armor Harbinger which does more DPS, has a Medium Neut, has a 4th mid so can fit a Web and a Cap Booster and has a bigger dronebay, not to mention a greater tank.


It's also a Battle-cruiser sized hull, so the comparison isn't exactly fair. However, all your other advice is good! ;)


So? Once Plated and rigged, the actual difference in speed is fairly minimal - about 50m/s. As for "sig tanking", both can get under a Battleship's guns with little difficulty. The Harbinger spanks it in practically every way, unless you're flying in a AHAC gang where the sig radius/speed difference gets magnified with the addition of an AB.

If the Harbinger can do everything that the Armor NOmen can do better except function in an AB HAC gang, then why fly an Armor NOmen?

Idicious Lightbane
Percussive Diplomacy
Posted - 2011.08.23 12:17:00 - [11]
 

[Nomen]

Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Internal Force Field Array I
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I

Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive
Small Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 400
Dread Guristas Warp Disruptor

Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Small Unstable Power Fluctuator I

Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I

Hornet EC-300 x5

King Rothgar
Autocannons Anonymous
Posted - 2011.08.23 13:44:00 - [12]
 

The fit I gave for that navy omen has a top speed of 1272m/s w/o leadership, implants or heat. A harbinger with a cookie cutter armor fit (basically the same + web, more guns and a third trimark) has a top speed of 896m/s. That's not insignificant. It also takes 50% longer for the harbinger to align. The navy omen has a solid mobility advantage when plated compared to a plated harb.

A shield harb does beat an armor navy omen in terms of speed, agility and firepower. It has basically the same EHP. However that doesn't tell the full story. Aside from a massively larger sig radius, it's far more vulnerable to neuting, is horrifically cap unstable even without neuts and has **** all resistance so it won't work nearly as well with logi on the field. Both ships have their place and if we're talking about cruiser hull gangs, the navy omen beats it pretty much on the grounds of a harbinger isn't a cruiser no matter how much you wish it was. The argument that it's better is like saying the abaddon is better than the harbinger, it's just not a valid comparison.

Dan Pyre
Amarr
Wolfsbrigade
Posted - 2011.08.23 15:09:00 - [13]
 

Edited by: Dan Pyre on 23/08/2011 15:10:35
Originally by: Scorpionidae
Watch This Its has some Omen Navy issue in it!

Scorpionidae Very Happy

I feel so special :)

Though, my fit has a 800mm plate. My reasoning is that with the 800mm plate, you don't have to use an Ancillary Current Router in a rig slot, and with the 3rd trimark instead you actually get around similar armor HP values, and GAIN agility. This also frees enough powergrid to fit a medium nosferatu, so that you can keep your guns going under neuting if needed.

Exactly, it's around 2000 armor HP with the 800mm plate vs the 1600mm, with the 800mm being able to fit a medium neut/nos and having more agility vs tank. It's up to preference really.

[Omen Navy Issue, New Setup 2]
Damage Control II
800mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Adaptive Nano Plating II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II

Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
X5 Prototype I Engine Enervator

Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Medium Nosferatu II

Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I

Warrior II x5

Suleiman Shouaa
The Tuskers
Posted - 2011.08.23 15:33:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: King Rothgar
The fit I gave for that navy omen has a top speed of 1272m/s w/o leadership, implants or heat. A harbinger with a cookie cutter armor fit (basically the same + web, more guns and a third trimark) has a top speed of 896m/s. That's not insignificant. It also takes 50% longer for the harbinger to align. The navy omen has a solid mobility advantage when plated compared to a plated harb.

A shield harb does beat an armor navy omen in terms of speed, agility and firepower. It has basically the same EHP. However that doesn't tell the full story. Aside from a massively larger sig radius, it's far more vulnerable to neuting, is horrifically cap unstable even without neuts and has **** all resistance so it won't work nearly as well with logi on the field. Both ships have their place and if we're talking about cruiser hull gangs, the navy omen beats it pretty much on the grounds of a harbinger isn't a cruiser no matter how much you wish it was. The argument that it's better is like saying the abaddon is better than the harbinger, it's just not a valid comparison.


Compare and contrast the cost of a ONI vs a Harbinger. The ONI is more expensive, whilst the only thing it offers compared to a Harbinger is speed. By bogging it down with plates/trimarks, you are reducing its speed significantly, to the point that a standard shield BC (Drake or Cane) can easily pin it down, either with webs or neuts, at which point it is dead in the water, whereas an Armored Harbinger can still have a chance at slugging it out.

If you think the Shield Harbinger is horrifically cap unstable, there's not much I can say except train your support skills higher and pulse the MWD only when needed. I've fought in 30+ minute fights with a Shield Harbinger and not had issues with capacitor once I got those support skills trained up. As for resists, he's talking about solo/small gang, not fleet fights.

Bottom line is that an Armor ONI (with the exception of in AB HAC gangs) is basicially a joke - it will be caught by shield BCs and unlike its cheaper and larger cousin it lacks the ability to defend itself in a straight out brawl against a BC. The Shield ONI is still useful compared to a Shield Harbinger when you really need more agility/speed e.g. in a nano Cruiser roam or against a gang with multiple frigate tacklers.

As for align time, if you're flying the Shield ONI/Harbinger you shouldn't have many issues with them when you encounter gatecamps.

King Rothgar
Autocannons Anonymous
Posted - 2011.08.23 23:57:00 - [15]
 

You are right that solo without logi support, the ONI is not the best ship around (not that it is anyways), but he didn't ask about the wisdom of using it solo/small gang.Wink He simply asked for a fit. The armor fit I gave is effective when fighting other cruisers or in larger fights with logi. It isn't the best ship, but it works. A shield harb does have more dps and will stomp it 1v1 with little hope of the ONI getting away. But the shield harb is more vulnerable to BS's, has a lower scan res and probably the biggest problem, it won't fit into plex's that are restricted to t1 cruisers.

The OP asked about the ONI specifically, which implies he has a reason for wanting to use that ship in particular as opposed to other options. It's also worth noting that small gang doesn't mean no RR. I've run around plenty of times in 5 man gangs that had RR of some sort. It might not be dedicated logi, often it's utility highs with RR instead of neuts. Oh, and as for pulsing mwd's, the whole point in nano fits is to keep range and away from hard tackle. A proper nano-BC needs to be able to permarun it's mwd or something close to it. That's why the nano-cane is by far the most popular of the nano-BC's. It can do it, the others can't. The nano-harb is terribly cap unstable and not a ship you should really be trying to nano if you can avoid it.

GeneticWeapon
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.08.24 04:50:00 - [16]
 

You guys talking about armor plating this thing are dumb, this is a ship to nano*** around in with a shield extender and a couple of screen reinforcers. Quick and nimble with a tiny sig radius to boot. Take your armor tanked Harbinger comparisons to eve-o oooooh shiitugh

Suleiman Shouaa
The Tuskers
Posted - 2011.08.24 09:47:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: GeneticWeapon
You guys talking about armor plating this thing are dumb, this is a ship to nano*** around in with a shield extender and a couple of screen reinforcers. Quick and nimble with a tiny sig radius to boot. Take your armor tanked Harbinger comparisons to eve-o oooooh shiitugh


I'm just stating that the Armor ONI is outclassed by an Armor Harbinger in almost everyway, so bring that instead if you're looking for an armor tanked ship for solo/small gang work.

In general, I agree, the ONI works much, much better with a shield fit than an armor fit, that is the main thing it has going for it - high speed.

And Rothgar, if you are having problems kiting with a Shield Harbinger, I suggest training up your support skills. It's fairly well known that for kiting Battlecruisers, the order goes:

HML Drake > Artillery Hurricane/Shield Harbinger >> AC Hurricane

Artillery Hurricane vs Shield Harbinger is an interesting debate I'll leave for another time though.


 

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