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blankseplocked Loki vs Machariel (Lvl 4's and Incursions)
 
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Scarlett Anstian
Minmatar
DPB Corporation
Posted - 2011.08.22 00:28:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Scarlett Anstian on 22/08/2011 01:02:47
I am still a relatively new player but would like something good to aim for with a decent skill plan. Right now I am drawn towards either a Machariel from watching them at the Alliance Tournament or a Loki. Technically I could be flying a Machariel in a week (although I know I wouldn't be flying it well) and start using it for missions for a laugh. The Loki would take a lot more training but Corp mates are telling me they regret putting SP into learning how to fly Battleships when Strategic Cruisers are so good.

I am aware of the SP loss if a Loki is destroyed but this isn't a problem for me. Lets also say that price isnt an issue, what would be best to aim for?

Thanks in advance Very Happy

EDIT: Typo

Mfume Apocal
Minmatar
Origin.
Black Legion.
Posted - 2011.08.22 00:54:00 - [2]
 

The Loki is good for Incursions with double webs.

The Mach is good for Incursions and L4s.

When your corpmates say they regret training BSes because T3s are so good, they are most likely talking about Caldari.

Scarlett Anstian
Minmatar
DPB Corporation
Posted - 2011.08.22 01:01:00 - [3]
 

Originally by: Mfume Apocal
The Loki is good for Incursions with double webs.

The Mach is good for Incursions and L4s.

When your corpmates say they regret training BSes because T3s are so good, they are most likely talking about Caldari.

So a Loki is nothing compared to a Tengu then? I have heard others say this before but I am not sure why. Some have said that Loki's are the best T3 for pvp'ing but I just want 1 ship i can work on for both Incursions and lvl 4's when there are no fleets available.

Cheers for the feedback ^^ so far then +1 to Machariels!

Mfume Apocal
Minmatar
Origin.
Black Legion.
Posted - 2011.08.22 01:24:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: Scarlett Anstian
So a Loki is nothing compared to a Tengu then? I have heard others say this before but I am not sure why.


1) It's active tank is subpar to a Tengu's. The Loki's Amplification Node subsystem decreases sig radius so it has no shield boost defensive subsystem. Adaptive Shielding gives a resist and RR bonus. I'm not totally sure the idea of a sig tank has been fully explored for PVE, it's comparatively difficult to quantify compared to a hard EFT number for shield boosting.

2) Projectiles have poor damage projection. Autos lack range, arties have tracking issues unless backed up by webs and smart piloting. In comparison, HMLs simply blast everything off the field, especially when rigor-rigged, at any range.

Linda Shadowborn
Gallente
Dark Steel Industries
Posted - 2011.08.22 02:20:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Mfume Apocal
1) It's active tank is subpar to a Tengu's. The Loki's Amplification Node subsystem decreases sig radius so it has no shield boost defensive subsystem. Adaptive Shielding gives a resist and RR bonus. I'm not totally sure the idea of a sig tank has been fully explored for PVE, it's comparatively difficult to quantify compared to a hard EFT number for shield boosting.


Having desperately tried to make the loki work in lvl4s i can say the tank isnt the problem, it tanked a lot better then my tengu does BUT the range of the guns is the problem, having to burn to every rat that isnt an angel does eat up time that the tengu just keeps murdering in.

The loki is nice, can do any lvl 4 with ease BUT it is slower in doing so then the tengu and much more so then the mach. Really isnt even close to the speed that you can kill with the mach.

Scarlett Anstian
Minmatar
DPB Corporation
Posted - 2011.08.22 10:43:00 - [6]
 

Thanks for the awesome feedback guys, right now I am leaning towards a Machariel then because tbh I love the look of the ship, its something new, awesome at the alliance tournament and the sound of their guns firing is just terrifying :P

Valor D'eglise
Gallente
Red Cross Of Gallente Federation
Posted - 2011.08.22 14:52:00 - [7]
 

Sounds like bubble wrap popping for me, but what ever terrifies you! Very Happy

McFly
Peanut Factory
Posted - 2011.08.22 17:01:00 - [8]
 

If you want to do incursions the machariel will get you into more fleets, the loki is a nice webber and all, especially when your fc brings you Skirmish Boosting. But it's webs aren't all that effective since most blitz fleets want you to wait until the rats are inside 20k before you web, which is when the vindicator/kronos/paladin webs are being used. I flew a triple web loki for about a month, but really you dont bring much dps to the field, u use loads of ammo and webbing stuff at range isn't really needed in vanguards (money makers).

The mach has great dps and great falloff, I prefer pilots in fleet that are contributing to the whole, which besides dps the mach doesn't provide much to help the rest of the fleet besides nice tracking and long falloff. An example of a great contributor ship is the Bhaalgorn it's webs are generally the same effectiveness but 800 dps with good skill using scorch, but also it has the utility slots like marauders for energy transfers when the logi chain gets broken due to a disconnect or crash.

T3's are quite nice for certain applications, although the loki itself doesn't really shine too much. in PVP I'd prefer a cane for dps/buffer, or a huginn/rapier (depending on fleet type) for webbing/painting. range boost on loki isn't much even when maxed and it also doesn't get the painter boost the minnie recons can provide.

On the PVE Side, I do a lot of plexing/anomalies/ratting in a machariel against sansha rats. It works great since the tracking disruptors are almost completely ineffective on it. And the ridiculous range lets EMP hit past 80k with tracking enhancers and rigs. I usually use a 4rep/ab scimmy alt to tank it in large plexs.

Cipher Jones
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.08.22 18:08:00 - [9]
 

One ship that will excel at both is a fleet issue typhoon.

Armor or shield tank and plenty of DPS. It cant clear missions as fast as my machariel, but it's better than most.

Lots and lots of SP required to make it "great".

Also the only ones who will be laughing if you fly an under skilled mach are trolls and ship builders. I sell machs and I'm begging you not to.

Scarlett Anstian
Minmatar
DPB Corporation
Posted - 2011.08.22 18:57:00 - [10]
 

I would fly a Typhoon but I would be a million miles off flying it properly. Great feedback about all this stuff and I really appreciate it. Right now I am leaning more towards a Loki as my Corp mates have just told me they would rather no more Battleships were used in fleet. As they have enough already so If I am in a Loki I could just use webs like a gentleman about me already right stated.

So that is what I am training for right now. EVE Mon is telling me I have around 30days of training which isnt so bad. For the basic Mach skills to take part in Incursions its calculated at around 45 days.

If I go for a Loki as well I can have access later to better pvp ships such as the Vagabond Laughing


 

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