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blankseplocked (Pre-Proposal) Instantaneous Missile Damage
 
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Paulize Dn'Injer
Posted - 2011.08.21 22:38:00 - [1]
 

Somehow in EVE projectiles travel at the speed of light, I propose that missiles are due the equivalent ability (to warp?). Consider the disadvantages of not having instantaneous damage:

The target may have been eliminated already

The target may have warped off

The target may have moved out of range

Your ship may have sunk leaving your missiles wander off target

[The above result in futile efforts that significantly reduce combat efficiency. Consider sniping/fleet]

Object Rendering – generating objects in space causing unnecessary server load



What would it take to balance instantaneous missile damage? Personally I’ve been toying with a grand unification theory, but I’d like to know the public opinion

Darius III
Caldari
Interstellar eXodus
BricK sQuAD.
Posted - 2011.08.22 01:13:00 - [2]
 

Originally by: Paulize Dn'Injer
Somehow in EVE projectiles travel at the speed of light, I propose that missiles are due the equivalent ability (to warp?). Consider the disadvantages of not having instantaneous damage:

The target may have been eliminated already

The target may have warped off

The target may have moved out of range

Your ship may have sunk leaving your missiles wander off target

[The above result in futile efforts that significantly reduce combat efficiency. Consider sniping/fleet]

Object Rendering – generating objects in space causing unnecessary server load



What would it take to balance instantaneous missile damage? Personally I’ve been toying with a grand unification theory, but I’d like to know the public opinion


The only real benefit that is doable here is the Object Rendering part. Missiles contribute to lag and would be nice if they didn't.

However, missiles have a great advantage over guns in that they always hit. The ability to destroy missiles in flight or warp off as a volley is released is a nice balance to guns. I don't think you will be seeing this change in Eve for this reason. D3

Paulize Dn'Injer
Posted - 2011.08.22 04:47:00 - [3]
 

Originally by: Darius III
The only real benefit that is doable here is the Object Rendering part. Missiles contribute to lag and would be nice if they didn't.

However, missiles have a great advantage over guns in that they always hit. The ability to destroy missiles in flight or warp off as a volley is released is a nice balance to guns. I don't think you will be seeing this change in Eve for this reason. D3


While missiles always hit, the DPS is reduced by the factors above, explosion velocity, and lack of criticals. I consider that to be more than balanced

As for the destruction of missiles mid-flight, I believe that would be better tempered by making Tracking Disruption ECM affect the explosion velocity. Not only would that remove the ineffective system of Defender Missiles but buff ECM and standardize it

Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
Posted - 2011.08.23 13:50:00 - [4]
 

Consider the advantages gained in exchange:
- BS range with cruiser weapons and HAC range with frigate weapons.
- 100% pure selectable damage types.
- Monopoly on ECM-shielded weaponry (goddamn FoF's are OP when used right).
- Tracking formula immunity .. goes so far that you can rig a ship for even better immunity (imagine if guns could adjust sig.res. in the same way .. drool!).

In short: Missiles will/should be nerfed long before they are ever buffed.

Paulize Dn'Injer
Posted - 2011.08.24 03:40:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Hirana Yoshida
Consider the advantages gained in exchange:
- BS range with cruiser weapons and HAC range with frigate weapons.
- 100% pure selectable damage types.
- Monopoly on ECM-shielded weaponry (goddamn FoF's are OP when used right).
- Tracking formula immunity .. goes so far that you can rig a ship for even better immunity (imagine if guns could adjust sig.res. in the same way .. drool!).

In short: Missiles will/should be nerfed long before they are ever buffed.


Range -- it can easily be toned down. I do propose the title of longest range be kept considering afterburners/MWDs take the place of defensive fittings. What do you propose as reasonable?

Selectable Damage -- most ships receive bonuses to kinetic dmg and without that extra 25% dmg the advantage isn't much to speak of (then there is also reloading to be considered, especially since ships don't last very long)

ECM-Shielded -- FoF are a joke

Tracking Formula -- instead there is "Explosion velocity / Sig Radius Formula" although your rigging argument is something I haven't heard of before, I'll give it some thought



Given how your points weathered, I don't see that justifying the disadvantages I listed at all

Karl Planck
Labyrinth Obtaining Chaotic Kangaroos
Posted - 2011.08.24 16:52:00 - [6]
 

you are also leaving out another important bonus. As long as you are on the field, if your ship gets destroyed the missiles continue to go on their path and apply their damage.

Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
Posted - 2011.08.24 20:12:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Paulize Dn'Injer
Range -- it can easily be toned down...

-33% range for all guided. They'll still have a healthy range advantage but can't kite "one size up" which is currently possible .. Drake scourge wasn't halted until Abbadons with 2-3 range mods were fielded for Goddess sake.
Originally by: Paulize Dn'Injer
..most ships receive bonuses to kinetic dmg..

Huh? Only some Caldari missile spewers have that bonus and 25% to a type that is rarely hardened specifically against (except when going against known spewers) is beyond good.
Try flying Amarr only as I am obligated to due to corporate policy and we can talk damage type issues, fun times in the Age of the Minnie and their annoying resists.
Originally by: Paulize Dn'Injer
ECM-Shielded -- FoF are a joke

You are as they say "doing it wrong". I have seen perma-jammed Caracals take out both Griffins, Blackbirds and Failcons .. even works really well against drones, like a smartbomb but without the need to sacrifice offensive power or fitting.
Originally by: Paulize Dn'Injer
Given how your points weathered..

Against a person with an axe to grind .. surprised you admitted that you haven't thought of the rigging disparity to be honest.

Paulize Dn'Injer
Posted - 2011.08.25 02:25:00 - [8]
 

Edited by: Paulize Dn''Injer on 25/08/2011 02:27:10
Originally by: Karl Planck
you are also leaving out another important bonus. As long as you are on the field, if your ship gets destroyed the missiles continue to go on their path and apply their damage.

Nah, that’s not quite a bonus, any ship that fires before being sunk has their attack hit.
(Also, when did it change that missiles fired before destruction, but still on the field, hit? I only have old data…)
Originally by: Hirana Yoshida
Originally by: Paulize Dn'Injer
Range -- it can easily be toned down...

-33% range for all guided. They'll still have a healthy range advantage but can't kite "one size up" which is currently possible .. Drake scourge wasn't halted until Abbadons with 2-3 range mods were fielded for Goddess sake.

Sounds reasonable
Originally by: Hirana Yoshida
Originally by: Paulize Dn'Injer
..most ships receive bonuses to kinetic dmg..

Huh? Only some Caldari missile spewers have that bonus and 25% to a type that is rarely hardened specifically against (except when going against known spewers) is beyond good.
Try flying Amarr only as I am obligated to due to corporate policy and we can talk damage type issues, fun times in the Age of the Minnie and their annoying resists.

I probably missed some (Ignoring rails and non-DPS ships):

* Those who don’t: Raven (+Navy), Rook (only 5), Osprey Navy, Widow, Golem, Scorpion Navy, Rattle Snake, Hawk, Worm

* Those who do: Drake, Nighthawk, Phoenix, Cerberus, Onyx, Caracal (+Navy), Tengu, Buzzard, Manticore, Crow, Hookbill

But really, if you cut out the faction ships and expensive T2 BS, there are very few practical ships… really only the Raven, Rook, and Hawk… really only the Raven is a missile spewer…


As for the fact that they favor kinetic, some race has to. I’m sure Caldari dislike the EM from Amarr… and if you look at it another way, it would be great if missile users could trade range for dmg via ammo like turrets can
Originally by: Hirana Yoshida
Originally by: Paulize Dn'Injer
ECM-Shielded -- FoF are a joke

You are as they say "doing it wrong". I have seen perma-jammed Caracals take out both Griffins, Blackbirds and Failcons .. even works really well against drones, like a smartbomb but without the need to sacrifice offensive power or fitting.

Thanks for the scenario this time (you’re “doing it right” now!). So really it’s only a small fleet thing then?
Originally by: Hirana Yoshida
Originally by: Paulize Dn'Injer
Given how your points weathered..

Against a person with an axe to grind .. surprised you admitted that you haven't thought of the rigging disparity to be honest.

Yeah, I try to be reasonable -- bear with me, I usually get the idea. Could you give me data on that disparity by the way?


 

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