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Umad Bro Questionmark
Posted - 2011.08.21 21:18:00 - [31]
 

Originally by: Hwong Jian

Or, respond to the entire statement and help facilitate a discussion on the subject.


Do not make the mistake of trying to consider only arguments favoring your point of view valid. All reasons matter because if a nuke were to blow up all of the USA then EvE will not have failed and it's not their fault that they lost that many subscribers.

Also you are making one of two wrong assumptions:
- that I care about other people rage quitting
- that I am motivated in any sort of way to repeat something I said many times before even in other MMO's for no reason whatsoever because the stubborn people that think quitting the game can make an impact on its future development will change their point of view based on what I or you say? That's naive and I don't think you are such.

Trying to make such a point over and over again is a sisyphean task.





Diomedes Calypso
Aetolian Armada
Posted - 2011.08.21 21:21:00 - [32]
 

Originally by: Tokyo Rose
Originally by: Doublewhopper
EVE is on the rise?

Here, especially for you some statistics:
EVE alltime stats
Eve is finally suffering its first decline.

It happens to every single mmo out there but its not the doom bell ringing in the death of the game.

Like has been said the numerous gameplay changes(or lack of for certain areas of the game) have driven a good chunk of players to other games.

Will eve recover and get back to its steady climb? That depends 100% on what ccp does over the next year or so and if the full incarna package along with the dust tie-in is a hit. Wink

As for me I'm a pvper and I got tired of the same ole same ole for the last 7 years.

So when wot came out I jumped to the new pvp game along with a sizeable portion of the pvp playerbase.

And yes if you check the conquest map for wot you will see many many familiar names.

Now some of these players still play eve but most that I know have taken a break and unsubbed to see what happens to eve after the 18 months are up and ccp finishes its carebear expansion.

I am one of them.(I reactivated this sub with isk just to come here and see what was up and be able to post)

Do I hate eve and what it has currently become? Nope. Just not interested in it atm because I could care less about carebear features.

So me and the others will be back once the dev blogs about redoing lowsec fw and nullsec start coming out with content on the test server.

Until then have fun fellas and pod them all. *goes back to grinding for his object261*


Pretty good points

I've been tryign new games perpetuum bored me, WoT was lots of fun but I haven't got into the conquest thing. .. global agenda kinda the same and while i enjoyed it for a month pretty much that was it.

I've gone back to WoW for a few weeks .. ..thats more like watching a tv series than a permanent virtual universe... unless you get into competitive raiding and we'll see.. having some fun lookingit over again.

Eve still is by far the best virtual economy and persistant universe i've seen...by far.. Its just that all the efforts seem to be misplaced recently and the fearless piece and their attitude towards players expresed in it really po'd me .

The station enviroment was so wonky not because it didn't run great (it ran fine) but because the priorties of movment were lame....no control over the speed and additude of the avatar and locked in a prison cell.. if that was the direction, even though i like dressing up avatars, it sucked. (and I'm uniclined to spend huge amounts of game currency to dress them.. im frugal with game currency not too much differently than in rl.. its a philosophy.. I'd never get caught in a pair of 1000$ jeans evenif i were a billionair in rl

Sam Walton, founder of walmart drove around in an inexpensive pick up truck.. a bit over the top, but still the point was about self identitiy.. and being a spendthrift or paying homage to expensive fads isn't for me...and I don't like associating with people who do that either.

Tokyo Rose
Posted - 2011.08.21 21:30:00 - [33]
 

Originally by: Umad Bro Questionmark
Originally by: Hwong Jian

Or, respond to the entire statement and help facilitate a discussion on the subject.


Do not make the mistake of trying to consider only arguments favoring your point of view valid. All reasons matter because if a nuke were to blow up all of the USA then EvE will not have failed and it's not their fault that they lost that many subscribers.

Also you are making one of two wrong assumptions:
- that I care about other people rage quitting
- that I am motivated in any sort of way to repeat something I said many times before even in other MMO's for no reason whatsoever because the stubborn people that think quitting the game can make an impact on its future development will change their point of view based on what I or you say? That's naive and I don't think you are such.

Trying to make such a point over and over again is a sisyphean task.





Actually mate players unsubbing in protest because of the direction the game is taking is the strongest possible message that can be given.

I had 5 active subs that I played for nearly 7 years. Now I have only this one that is due to run out again in a couple of weeks.

There is nothing in this new expansion that remotely interests me and its not looking like the next expansion or two will change that.

Now did I rage quit?

Nope. I just quietly mothballed my freighter and cap fleet then took down my towers and tied up all my eve business to toss to the dwindling roster of active corpies who are still happy with the market play and other non pvp things that they enjoy.

Many many many many others have done the same and it shows.


Hwong Jian
Posted - 2011.08.21 21:34:00 - [34]
 

Originally by: Bane Necran
Are you under the impression people never stopped playing until recently? People are always quitting for any number of reasons, and the group that quit over the MT hysteria wasn't such a large number that it even stands out that much.


Not at all. I am, however, under the impression that no event in EVE's history has caused a noticeable and sustained drop in the playerbase of the game. Until now.

As for the people "that quit over the MT hysteria"... Only CCP knows how many subscriptions have been cancelled and how many plex-based accounts won't be renewed. But, deciding to quit the game, cancelling your subscription, not buying another plex... None of that immediately causes your account to stop being active. It's there until the time runs out.

But, the lack of an increase in players (for the first time in the history of EVE) very much stands out.

Originally by: Bane Necran
I know a lot of you really, really, want to believe EVE is dying, but anyone who's been playing for awhile has heard that song and dance many times before, and you're going to need something serious to sway us, none of this trying to make a disaster out of subs dropping an amount they commonly do.


Actually, I really, really, REALLY want to believe that EVE is NOT dying. To me, EVE has always been a haven away from what every other game I've encountered was: a way to coddle and placate players so they continue to give the developers money. I love(d?) EVE for the simple fact that it is(was?) a place where the developers gave us the chance to be as brutal as we want to be. But, the current events have caused me to worry that the core fundamentals on which this game was founded are no longer as important as other things.

EVE as a sandbox is very close to disappearing. EVE as a game where time, patience and planning are rewarded is in danger of disappearing. Regardless of how you or I may feel about microtransactions or pay-to-win games, the moment any non-vanity item is by CCP for real money, "EVE that was" is dead. That is the belief that a percentage (large or small, only CCP knows) of players have.

EVE is a game that has required commitment from its playerbase, dedication and cultivation to build something as small as "the right skills" to as large as multi-region-spanning sovereignty. It is a game that makes you invest time and effort into it and rewards you with a feeling of accomplishment, be it from the sovereignty maps to the killboards. A place where a player can point at something and say, proudly, "I did that." To some, it seems like CCP is headed down a path that could take that sense of accomplishment away from us.

In life, we can forgive a great many things. But very few people can forgive having their dreams taken away from us.

**** CCP for even considering taking our dreams and trying to cash in on them.

Umad Bro Questionmark
Posted - 2011.08.21 21:39:00 - [35]
 

Originally by: Tokyo Rose
Actually mate players unsubbing in protest because of the direction the game is taking is the strongest possible message that can be given.

I had 5 active subs that I played for nearly 7 years. Now I have only this one that is due to run out again in a couple of weeks.

There is nothing in this new expansion that remotely interests me and its not looking like the next expansion or two will change that.

Now did I rage quit?

Nope. I just quietly mothballed my freighter and cap fleet then took down my towers and tied up all my eve business to toss to the dwindling roster of active corpies who are still happy with the market play and other non pvp things that they enjoy.

Many many many many others have done the same and it shows.




Did you play WoW? I'm not proud of it but I did. Do you know how many people cried UNSUB when Lich King and eventually Cataclysm came? Way more than here, even percentage wise. Do you know how many players WoW has now? More than ever. Do you know how many players will EvE have in winter? SAME THING! More than ever!


Tokyo Rose
Posted - 2011.08.21 21:48:00 - [36]
 

Originally by: Umad Bro Questionmark
Originally by: Tokyo Rose
Actually mate players unsubbing in protest because of the direction the game is taking is the strongest possible message that can be given.

I had 5 active subs that I played for nearly 7 years. Now I have only this one that is due to run out again in a couple of weeks.

There is nothing in this new expansion that remotely interests me and its not looking like the next expansion or two will change that.

Now did I rage quit?

Nope. I just quietly mothballed my freighter and cap fleet then took down my towers and tied up all my eve business to toss to the dwindling roster of active corpies who are still happy with the market play and other non pvp things that they enjoy.

Many many many many others have done the same and it shows.




Did you play WoW? I'm not proud of it but I did. Do you know how many people cried UNSUB when Lich King and eventually Cataclysm came? Way more than here, even percentage wise. Do you know how many players WoW has now? More than ever. Do you know how many players will EvE have in winter? SAME THING! More than ever!


You just compared wow's playerbase with eve's?

Really?

Sorry bud but you just lost any shred of internats cred you had. Embarassed

Soi Mala
Whacky Waving Inflatable Flailing Arm Tubemen
Posted - 2011.08.21 21:53:00 - [37]
 

SWTOR can't come quick enough tbh.

baltec1
Posted - 2011.08.21 22:01:00 - [38]
 

Originally by: Soi Mala
SWTOR can't come quick enough tbh.


You are going to be massivly disappointed.

Brooks Puuntai
Minmatar
Nomadic Asylum
Posted - 2011.08.21 22:15:00 - [39]
 

Originally by: Umad Bro Questionmark


Did you play WoW? I'm not proud of it but I did. Do you know how many people cried UNSUB when Lich King and eventually Cataclysm came? Way more than here, even percentage wise. Do you know how many players WoW has now? More than ever. Do you know how many players will EvE have in winter? SAME THING! More than ever!




Comparing 2 different player bases and game styles is fail.

Not only that if you didn't know WoW just went partial F2P. Which generally means that WoW actually saw either a plateau in subs or even a noticeable consistent decrease. Which maybe from all those who where angered by Lich King and Cataclysm.

Umad Bro Questionmark
Posted - 2011.08.21 22:24:00 - [40]
 

Edited by: Umad Bro Questionmark on 21/08/2011 22:24:42

Or they are preparing for their next major cash cow...

Wow you guys are really really really bad at this.

Brooks Puuntai
Minmatar
Nomadic Asylum
Posted - 2011.08.21 22:26:00 - [41]
 

Originally by: Umad Bro Questionmark
Or they are preparing for their next major Isk cow...

Wow you guys are really really really bad at this.


Thats your rebuttal? I'm quite disappointed.

Tokyo Rose
Posted - 2011.08.21 22:28:00 - [42]
 

Originally by: Brooks Puuntai
Originally by: Umad Bro Questionmark
Or they are preparing for their next major Isk cow...

Wow you guys are really really really bad at this.


Thats your rebuttal? I'm quite disappointed.
Apparently he has the inside scoop on blizzards marketing plans. Razz

Forum Worrier
Posted - 2011.08.21 22:29:00 - [43]
 

Originally by: Tokyo Rose
You just compared wow's playerbase with eve's?

Really?

Sorry bud but you just lost any shred of internats cred you had. Embarassed


Because EVE's playerbase is so much more mature and level-headed?

Quick! Hate mail to CCP's investors!

Tokyo Rose
Posted - 2011.08.21 22:34:00 - [44]
 

Originally by: Forum Worrier
Originally by: Tokyo Rose
You just compared wow's playerbase with eve's?

Really?

Sorry bud but you just lost any shred of internats cred you had. Embarassed


Because EVE's playerbase is so much more mature and level-headed?
Absolutely.

Don't confuse the bare handfull of eve forum trolls who do not represent eve's playerbase in any way to the literal mob of them in wow who do represent wow's playerbase.

Aaron Aardvark
Amarr
Posted - 2011.08.21 22:34:00 - [45]
 

Originally by: Tokyo Rose

Sorry bud but you just lost any shred of internats cred you had. Embarassed

Forum alts have credibility?

Tokyo Rose
Posted - 2011.08.21 22:59:00 - [46]
 

Originally by: Aaron Aardvark
Originally by: Tokyo Rose

Sorry bud but you just lost any shred of internats cred you had. Embarassed

Forum alts have credibility?
Sure. It just depends on what they say.

Most don't use mains because not even their own corps leadership is free of morons who will kick you because you said something they don't personally like.


Forum Worrier
Posted - 2011.08.21 23:39:00 - [47]
 

Originally by: Tokyo Rose

Quote:


Because EVE's playerbase is so much more mature and level-headed?
Absolutely.



Yes, I'm sorry. It's a well known fact that PvP based mmo's that encourage scamming and griefing attract the moral elite.

Tokyo Rose
Posted - 2011.08.21 23:50:00 - [48]
 

Originally by: Forum Worrier
Originally by: Tokyo Rose

Quote:


Because EVE's playerbase is so much more mature and level-headed?
Absolutely.



Yes, I'm sorry. It's a well known fact that PvP based mmo's that encourage scamming and griefing attract the moral elite.
Moral elite? What the hell does that have to do with forum cred?

Some of the smartest and maturest players in the game are the top scammers and griefers.

Or did you think scamming and greifing is as easy as putting up a raven in contracts as a cnr?

Forum Worrier
Posted - 2011.08.21 23:53:00 - [49]
 

Originally by: Tokyo Rose
Originally by: Forum Worrier
Originally by: Tokyo Rose

Quote:


Because EVE's playerbase is so much more mature and level-headed?
Absolutely.



Yes, I'm sorry. It's a well known fact that PvP based mmo's that encourage scamming and griefing attract the moral elite.
Moral elite? What the hell does that have to do with forum cred?

Some of the smartest and maturest players in the game are the top scammers and griefers.

Or did you think scamming and greifing is as easy as putting up a raven in contracts as a cnr?


U gots +1 forum cred bro.

Soi Mala
Whacky Waving Inflatable Flailing Arm Tubemen
Posted - 2011.08.22 00:13:00 - [50]
 

Hey, where did the "like" button go? Laughing


MatrixSkye Mk2
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.08.22 00:25:00 - [51]
 

Originally by: Doublewhopper
How many of you have actually checked the server statistics?

Who of you have read this thread?
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1536495

As i said...CCP sort the mess out and EVE will be on the rise again.


That thread is just a whole lot of huff and puff. If you really want that thread to carry weight then you need to really, and I mean really quit. None of this "I quit but my account is still active for 2 years so might as well continue playing till then" bull****.

I've added a few people from the very first page to see if they've carried on with their promise and still see them consistently log in.

These empty threats are laughable at most and carry absolutely no weight whatsoever. All that is is childish tantrums.


General Xenophon
Posted - 2011.08.22 02:02:00 - [52]
 

+1 it would be great to see the company spend time making the game better on a whole. The game is great, but its a tough sell to friends when the rest of the gaming community hears about the crap CCP pulls and just laughs and says 'no thanks'.

Also, the sad truth is it doesn't matter what we players think. CCP will do what they want to do and that's that. Even if that means breaking the game instead of improving upon it.

firepup82
Missions Mining and Mayhem
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2011.08.22 02:13:00 - [53]
 

overly dramatic


the world changes, kid. get used to it.

you don't always get your way by emotional manipulation.

flank steak
Caldari
Super Batungwaa Ninja Warriors
0ccupational Hazzard
Posted - 2011.08.22 02:42:00 - [54]
 

I need to collect water for my dying family

Where do I stand to collect the most tears?

AnzacPaul
Perkone
Posted - 2011.08.22 03:21:00 - [55]
 

tl;dr Enough people leave mmo gets crap.


The problem is CCP made a game so different that it created immersion in itself. Eve had an aura about it, in the fact that ALOT of gamers out there couldn't hack it, didn't enjoy the learning curve, rage quit when they lost their first Caracal and returned to their other games. If you stuck it out, and you fell into the trap then as any player knows there's something special about that. Eve was/is the premier MMO game in my opinion. Not only did CCP create it, but the early players transformed it into something much more.

They turned internet spaceships into serious business.

Alarm clock ops, fleets what are now in the thousands fighting for a region. One system, one pos at a time. Industrialists and inventors who pay a gaming company $15 a month to be able to sit there and make virtual items to sell on a virtual market, and at the end of the day to garnish enjoyment out of it.

Individuals that spend countless hours of their own time to create third party applications to further the game. They do not receive payment for it, yet they love it. And yet CCP wanted to find a way to charge for it still.

And the trust that is required to operate this game on a large scale. We have all seen what happens when a single person turns about face and quite literally destroy their whole alliance, thousands of members, with a few clicks of a mouse button. Along the way, the people that made the game what it is today (no not CCP), feel like the trust they gave CCP to protect the game. You say the players aren't owed anything by CCP? Many people have spent 5 years plus playing this game, almost daily. Eve has become a best friend for people. Yes even for married people with kids, and jobs, and you know lives. Multiple accounts, thousands of hours, many spent doing useless stuff for the benefit of others.

In my opinion CCP owe the dedicated players an explanation on why they have drastically changed so many aspects of the game. You may not. Your game might be perfect. But you really think CCP would have bothered with the CSM fly-in debacle, if it was "a silent majority and just a few forum trolls complaning"?

What i'm trying to get at is that along the way, the players took over the control Eve. Without those early players, without those miners, and carebears, and even the Low sec pirates, who by destroying large amounts of isk every week keep the market turning over, where would Eve really be? Would you still be playing without the thousands of others who along with you help shape it daily?

Its all well and good to tell people to get the **** out or to harden up, or unsubscribe, take your pick. But what happens to the game you love when the people that make it what it is leave, even if in trickles here and there? Just because a Jenga tower doesnt always come down first block, remove enough small blocks over a period of time, and the foundation of the game is gone, and therefore the very essence of Eve with it.

Enormously Huge
Gallente
Posted - 2011.08.22 04:47:00 - [56]
 

Originally by: Doublewhopper


I know myself of over 30 accounts
I've been trying for the last while to formulate just how pathetic and sad this is into words. However I do not think there are words in the English language to properly describe this, at all.

AnzacPaul
Perkone
Posted - 2011.08.22 05:53:00 - [57]
 

Originally by: Enormously Huge
Originally by: Doublewhopper


I know myself of over 30 accounts
I've been trying for the last while to formulate just how pathetic and sad this is into words. However I do not think there are words in the English language to properly describe this, at all.


He means he knows of 30 people that have quit, not he has 30 accounts.

Thornat
Posted - 2011.08.22 07:07:00 - [58]
 

Most of the stuff that has driven people to quit the game is really just perception. I mean the outrage over the NEX store is silly, no one is forcing you to buy anything and they have already and re-affirming that their WILL NOT BE ANY GOLD AMMO, aka their will not be any game changing items. To me that sufficient until it turns out to be a lie which I admit is a possibility with CCP. But for now its not in the game.

I personally don't find anything so traggic about Incursions, its an expansion, it was free and frankly aside from the added lag the ability to turn it off was sufficient to satisfy me. If I don't like it I don't have to use it, thats a fair deal offered by CCP. When its fixed and does something other than allow me to sit in an empty room that does nothing I will be happy to use it. Walking around in station is a cool concept and I support it.

Really the only beef I have right now is that the focus of development seems to have gone away from fixing already broken stuff and existingi in the realm of adding new broken stuff like incursions. I'm hoping its less a trend and just a current commitment that was made and must be seen through to the end. I understand that aspect of development as I'm a developer myself. You make a plan and you finish the plan, canceling it mid way through is always a bad idea, but as a developer I hope they realize that their is much work to be done in Eve and that they get back to it sooner rather than later.

On the good side however, the side that keeps me and my friends playing is that Eve is still the best MMO out their by a margin so wide they aren't even in the same contest and thats simply a fact. I hear people quiting for games like Rift, WOW and Tanks... all fine and dandy entertainment but short lived and lacking anythng that would suistain me as MMO's for the long term. I need complexity.. I want complexity. Eve offers it in spades. So ya its not perfect, certainly CCP hasn't been all to kind with their player base of late but I think they are learning some hard lessons right now and I think they will recover so I continue to support them and their game because at the end of the day when I play other game the theme always is "ya its fun, but its not as good as Eve".

thats my story and im sticking to it.

Guttripper
Caldari
State War Academy
Posted - 2011.08.22 07:30:00 - [59]
 

Thornat -

I would not say Eve itself is complex, but the people that are a part of the gaming universe that makes the game complex. Most games, you could see a certain class with visable armor and weapon graphics and have a decent idea what their abilities would be without engaging that person. Yet with Eve, the complexity comes from not really knowing from that first perception. Yes, you could quickly check the avatar's history and guess their approximate skill points, but that could be nothing. Who exactly is this 15 million plus skill point person that is in my crosshairs?

- A cyno alt ready to unload a hot drop onto you?
- A budding pirate out scouting for his corporation?
- A "pure" newbie out exploring and though read about the potential dangers, wanted to experience events for him or her self?
- A wayward miner or trader that is lost and trying to get home?

That to me is the complexity of this game - the people element of not really knowing until you're into the pvp aspect. While the game boasts being a spreadsheet in space, without people taking so many various paths in their gaming life that all interlace over time, numbers are just that - numbers. And at its heart, nothing complex about numbers (for the most part Razz).

Just my humble thoughts on this matter.

Josefine Etrange
Gallente
Posted - 2011.08.22 07:36:00 - [60]
 

Originally by: Umad Bro Questionmark

U mad bro?

Nobody cares about your 15 dollars more or less, even if it's 30 players or 300 or eve 3000. Play the game and learn to accept that it will change from better to worse and other way around from time to time, because that's the process of development and stop whining because your spaceship got broken.



I Pay my toll to the troll on the bridge ;-)
Though 3000x15x12 are 540000$. I am quiet sure someone will care about this kind of money ;-)


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