open All Channels
seplocked EVE Fiction
blankseplocked New Clues from Arek'Jaalan
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Pages: [1] 2

Author Topic

Roga Dracor
Caldari
Mental Disorders Inc.
Posted - 2011.08.20 16:10:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Roga Dracor on 21/08/2011 01:23:09

In doing my research into linking the clues into a coherent picture of New Eden's "Ancient Races" I have stumbled across the relevence of Tau Ceti to the fiction. I intend to back up my theories with hard evidence, sustainable in-game. But, the breadcrumbs keep pulling me out of game to tie it together. Frustrating, to say the least.

Tau Ceti appears in the Eve time line as one of the departure points from the Milky Way to New Eden. It's proximity to Epsilon Eridani, the supposed location of the "other" eve gate and the natural wormhole the gates "stabilized", makes it an obvious jumping off point for "Terrans" from any of the Galaxy they inhabited. Which I don't believe could have been the entire Milky Way. After all, they relyed on "gate technology and jump drives". Some of the locations would take longer than twenty thousand years to reach conventionally, some expeditions would become lost. Many might never reach the target systems.

I always wondered that "Frenchmen" seemed an almost anachronistic term in a far flung fictional future. But, it is there, as are the Gallente, so it must be so. But, does that make Tau Ceti "French"? I do not believe so. It is hinted that Tau Ceti was composed of a City Planet or Planets(Ecumenopolis), the population had grown to the point the planetary surface and subsurface were consumed by modifications for human habitation. It is also hinted that many factions vied here, in one of the likely, two oldest human habitations beyond Earth and it's Solar System. The other likely being Alpha Centauri.

The thing about Tau Ceti that we know from current scientific data, also points to the thesis the "Best Habitable" planet would be a Jupiter like gas giant. A Jovian planet. So, from this Jovian system, a mix of the societies of humanity might have immigrated to New Eden. Oddly, they supposedly became the Gallente, whom the Jovian's dislike.

Another thing that one must consider, is the state of "Terran" technology. Was capsule technology available and in common use? One must deduce that, yes, capsuleer tech was probably available. As were cloning, nanite technology, advanced genetics and solar engineering theorum. Unless they were prohibited for some reason or another. "Terrans" were likely as advanced or more advanced than the Jove.

So, any technology New Edenites possess now, was likely possessed or exceeded by the "Terrans". Why then, do so many of the ancients seem to aschew shielding systems in favor of armor systems? The likely answer is there was a weapon that could be used against shields, making them untrustworthy for defense. We find the proof of it in Jamyl Sarum's superweapon. Reverse engineered, or pilfered whole, from a cache of "Terran" technology. This argues that the technology of the "Terrans" was driven by war, just like New Eden.

Roga Dracor
Caldari
Mental Disorders Inc.
Posted - 2011.08.20 17:32:00 - [2]
 

Edited by: Roga Dracor on 21/08/2011 01:21:00

According to the Eve Intro Video, the parts of the Milky Way inhabited by man were depleted of resources, becoming hard pressed to provide for the Galactic Civilization they had created. Mankind was on a downward spiral of self defeat. And then New Eden was discovered. A vast reservoir of untapped resources. Can we truly see mankind as finding an equitable division of these resources, or did new fighting erupt to control these resources?

The timeline states that planetary systems were "sold", meaning someone was in logistical control of the Eve wormhole. A "Terran" authority, or a single, or cooperative, group of factions? This raises the question, is New Eden, and by extension, Anoikis, a pocket universe, as presented in "Hitchhikers Guide"? The Sleepers on vacation, like the world builders presented therein? Recent ingame revelations suggests the Sleepers, and probably the Talocan, were able to extract raw materials from the stars. Removing the need for the depletion of resources in standard terms, and likely aging the stars unnaturally in the process. Solar Engineering. "The stars bent to our will." This points to the technology of Solar Engineering to be post "Terran". If the "Terrans" could harvest materials directly from the stars, the Eve Wormhole would have been mostly irrelevent. Unless of course, the technology was pre-Eve and the stars of the Milky Way were exhausted.

Which, to my mind brings up the notion that ALL Sleepers are capsuleers or the equivalent. They would have to be, to be infomorphs. How many survived the transfer with their psyche's and sanity intact? Pehaps the Triage areas at the Mirror were needed when the transfer was actually occuring.

Many of you know my vast reportoire of Jovian conspiracy theories. I have tried to tone them down ingame. Beyond my request to add the Jove to the study field of the Ancient Races department of Arek'Jaalan, I have not droned on about the Jove.

I hope that many see I am approaching this research as objectively as possible, and ready to be swayed should someone offer contrasting logical deduction. I know no more than anyone else, but, I hope that some logic is seen in my deductive processes.

It is also the reason I am presenting this here, instead of the Summit at this point. It is largely supposition.


Jowen Datloran
Caldari
Science and Trade Institute
Posted - 2011.08.20 17:46:00 - [3]
 

Every time people mention that super weapon it annoys me to a great extent that I am certain I read somewhere that its origional and intended purpose was navigation, not warfare. I just cannot remember where I read that. Or maybe I dreamt it.

Roga Dracor
Caldari
Mental Disorders Inc.
Posted - 2011.08.20 18:24:00 - [4]
 

Edited by: Roga Dracor on 21/08/2011 01:04:23

"All technology is applied, eventually."

I agree it is very likely the technology is multi-purpose, but, in the hands of man, the weapon is inherent in the tech. I think that is part of the point. A stick can be a tool, it can be reconfigured to provide warmth through fire, or it can be used as a club to bludgeon your enemy, as well as a torch to burn his homesteads.

Regardless, the weapon has been used, and initial evidence from investigations seem to back the theory that it has been used in the past. Armor usage among the ancients outstrips shields 4-1. Only the Talocan have any evidence of advanced shielding tech.

Roga Dracor
Caldari
Mental Disorders Inc.
Posted - 2011.08.20 19:05:00 - [5]
 

Edited by: Roga Dracor on 21/08/2011 01:35:14

And so, I have to follow leads where they take me, and in many instances, they lead to the Jove.

What is it the eugenics program of the First Jovian Empire removed from humanity? I'd argue it to be a conception of man's sinful nature. Aggression, Sexual Reproduction, the survival instincts. What portion of mankind's community most generally presumes the sinful nature of man? And from where does this decree of values come? A religious denomination and the word of God. Of note, Jovian can also be interpreted as "of God".

Taking this logic further, is this religion the same that is practiced, albeit in schismatic form, by the Amarr, and the Sisters of Eve, a Unified Catholic Church, perhaps?

If this is so, then perhaps the "Reclaiming" is an echo of something that happened in the past, a "Claiming" by the Conformists of New Eden from the Unified Catholic Church. The cataclysmic events of the closing of the Eve Gate.

Maybe the "Claiming" was a horrible disaster, and the Church proper raised the infidels in a holy war to end holy wars. The Jove use energy based weapons, like the Amarr. They are also infamous for advanced shielding, down to the personal sized module encasing their foot soldiers.

The Mirror could be a Religious Haven, a Unified Catholic Church, or monestary thereof, dedicated to shining the light of God's knowledge unto mankind. What do modern religious movements control or create to foster and expand their body of followers. Their own media. Televangelists in the stars? Considering the power and wealth that flows from Rome, today, why would not a Unified Catholic Church be possibly the biggest megacorp in the "Terran" sphere? And they who controlled the logistics of the Eve Wormhole?

By tying in what we can assume of the Jove, the two seperate living areas were likely divided by gender, as a cloistered monestary is. The Jove have no human desires beyond a thirst for knowledge, perhaps an emergent ideology, new and "strange appetites" arose to replace normal human physical desires.

Roga Dracor
Caldari
Mental Disorders Inc.
Posted - 2011.08.21 00:55:00 - [6]
 

Edited by: Roga Dracor on 21/08/2011 01:40:53
While all or none of this may be a flight of pure fancy, it draws the community's attention to the Jove, and the huge mystery that surrounds them. Surely, then, the Jove deserve the effort and attention as one of the "Ancient Races" of New Eden?

I have already asked for official sanctioning from Arek'Jaalan. I now present it to the community in the hopes they concur.

Arek'Jaalan Arek'Jaalan: Ancient Races

Roga Dracor
Caldari
Mental Disorders Inc.
Posted - 2011.08.23 13:59:00 - [7]
 

Edited by: Roga Dracor on 23/08/2011 15:35:03

Returning to comparative study, The Talocan stand out as unique in many ways from the other ancients. The Talocan show evidence of advanced shielding. They also show evidence they very likely used cloaking devices. All being advanced field theory, a specialty seemingly pioneered by the Yan Jung. Who also seem to share a racial specialty in mining with the Talocan. Many Talocan sites are obvious mining stations. Talocan mining sites show rare evidence of Veldspar in Anoikis.

Are there, then, hidden structures in wormhole space we have not encountered because of Talocan cloaking technology? Why then, do the Sleepers not display such knowledge? They have probably had the longest to study them. and yet they show no evidence of cloaking technology, and we have reverse engineered cloaking systems from Talocan technology.

Talocan structural nomenclature suggests the Talocan were as intimately tied to the stars as are the Sleepers. Core sites hug the inner solar systems, close to the stars, while outposts meander out away from the stars. This nomenclature carries over between the races, as well. The Sleepers use Core, Perimeter and Frontier, while the Talocan used Core, Perimeter and Frontier in their naming conventions. The prevalence of Talocan Transponders suggests the Talocan, like the Sleepers, used an extensive communications system in Anoikis, possibly tied to navigation.

An interesting aspect of T3 production is, the Sleepers don't seem to have any ship hulls to speak of. T3 hulls are gained from Talocan ships. While Sleepers seemed able to produce subsystems, there are no abandoned Sleeper hulls. And early Sleeper hybrid tech focuses on hull modifications. So, it begs the question, are the Sleeper Drone hulls retrofitted Talocan hulls?

So then, did the Talocan stumble on the Sleepers, perhaps left in Anoikis with no mode of transportation? The Sleepers seeking a return to corporeal existance, found a way to infiltrate and commandeer Talocan technology? Perhaps creating the first Sleeper Drones? Did the Talocan destroy themselves with a viral agent to stop the spread of infomorphic body snatchers into their society? And the awakened Sleepers try to fight the plague with their medical centers?

Renee Khalida
Kumiho's Smile
Posted - 2011.08.24 20:22:00 - [8]
 

Quote:
Tau Ceti appears in the Eve time line as one of the departure points from the Milky Way to New Eden. It's proximity to Epsilon Eridani, the supposed location of the "other" eve gate and the natural wormhole the gates "stabilized", makes it an obvious jumping off point for "Terrans" from any of the Galaxy they inhabited. Which I don't believe could have been the entire Milky Way. After all, they relyed on "gate technology and jump drives". Some of the locations would take longer than twenty thousand years to reach conventionally, some expeditions would become lost. Many might never reach the target systems.



Can you provide the relevant links to the canon where you're drawing this from? I misread, perhaps, because I always thought that everyone arrived to New Eden through the EVE Gate only, and that the "other side" was located in the Canopus system. You make it aound as though there were multiple entry points to New Eden, one of which originated from Tau Ceti.


Roga Dracor
Caldari
Mental Disorders Inc.
Posted - 2011.08.27 12:51:00 - [9]
 

Edited by: Roga Dracor on 27/08/2011 12:55:41
Actually, no, read above to pure speculation.. I have read no canon that puts the other end of the Eve Gate in ANY specific location, but, I have seen "rumour" that both Epsilon Erandani and Canopus were the system. Love to have that clarified, if anyone can.

Canopus is a good possibility due to it's luminosity. The mysterious bright star in all Eve skies points to a superluminous event. Canopus is a very bright star, and it is very far away from Earth, likely one of our theoretical\fictional last systems investigated.

Epsilon Eradani is relatively close in astronomical terms, and very close to Tau Ceti, mentioned in the timeline as the origin point of the Gallente colonists.

Roga Dracor
Caldari
Mental Disorders Inc.
Posted - 2011.08.28 18:27:00 - [10]
 

Edited by: Roga Dracor on 28/08/2011 20:06:45

Further evidence, once again OOC and deductive, Zoroastrianism has been posited by the devs as the inspirational source of the Amarr religion, and subsequently the Unified Catholic Church, as well. Zoroastrianism's most holy day is "Nowruz", a celebration of the New Year at the Vernal Equinox. A transitory, or nomadic society generally forms gathering places at important times of the "year" to trade, arrange marriages, share community, etc.. The Oruze Enclave could be such a temporary, living and celebrating point for the Early(Preupload) Sleepers. The Talocan were transitory, as well, providing further evidence of a direct relationship between the "races". Perhaps they were two clans or bloodlines of a distinct race?

Is it possible we have translated "Oruze"?Shocked

Roga Dracor
Caldari
Mental Disorders Inc.
Posted - 2011.08.28 20:03:00 - [11]
 

Edited by: Roga Dracor on 28/08/2011 20:14:17

Now=New
Ruz=Light
Vitrauze=Living Light

Raata=Truth, just an interesting bit of New Eden trivia I picked up.. Razz

New Years Day on or about March 20th in this case, the Spring Equinox..

Fire is the associative element with Nowruz celebrations, fire and water the holy elements to Zoroastrians. What better place to harness fire than from a star?

Borascus
Posted - 2011.08.28 22:48:00 - [12]
 

OOC:: that does indeed point to a lot of similarities:


Nowruz as far back to the reign of Jamshid, who in Zoroastrian texts saved mankind from a killer winter that was destined to kill every living creature.


Haft Sīn: - with the following additional items:

a mirror (symbolizing cleanness and honesty) -

holy book (e.g., the Avesta, Qur'an, Bible, Torah, or Kitáb-i-Aqdas) and/or a poetry book (almost always either the Shahnameh or the Divan of Hafiz)

At the end of the celebrations on this day, the sabzeh grown for the Haft Seen (which has symbolically collected all sickness and bad luck) <-- Triage is thrown into running water to exorcise the demons (divs) from the household.<-- Quarantine

The moment the Sun crosses the celestial equator and equalizes night and day is calculated exactly every year and Iranian families gather together to observe the rituals

In terms of Informorphic societal values Its not a long leap towards Sleepers using the Mirror sites to co-ordinate "with" the Talocan using the Triage / Quarantine elements to keep the digital VR clean and lucky.

If this was a path of interest it would definately have me looking at the Quarantine VR to see what the downfall was.

Amidst the ruins of this Talocan outpost, the exchange depot looms,
its presence foreboding. Judging from the wreckage inside, the depot
was either used for imprisonment or cultural exchange; eerily, there
seems to be very little difference between the two.
<-- This would certainly be the case if you were to spend time uploading into a VR

Roga Dracor
Caldari
Mental Disorders Inc.
Posted - 2011.08.29 00:19:00 - [13]
 

Edited by: Roga Dracor on 29/08/2011 03:44:28

Zoroastrian Fire Temple. You seem to know more than I about Iranian religious practice, so I will just point out more ideas, such as Iconoclasm. Certainly a valid subject with regards to the mythological events of the Eve Gate Cataclysm, as well as the story of the Takmahl, were they practitioners of Unified Catholicism..?

Roga Dracor
Caldari
Mental Disorders Inc.
Posted - 2011.08.29 03:09:00 - [14]
 

Edited by: Roga Dracor on 29/08/2011 03:45:50

Another thought that occurs to me. Does T(l)alocan denote the people, or the place? Tlaloc is the name of the "god", Tlalocan is the direct reference to a layer of heaven that he rules over. Is it, like Anoikis, a reference to their abode in wormhole space?

Seeing as how the Jove refer to the current state of wormhole space as Anoikis (programmed cell death) could Talocan be the place(Heaven) they retreated to, in an attempt to fix the self inflicted disease, maybe in the place the disease first "escaped" the Jovians? Or do the Talocan and Sleepers hold their own disparate stories, distinct from the Jove?

Tlaloc is a god that demands sacrifice, most notably, children. The Jove sacrificed the normal human reproductive cycle, they sacrificed their children. Tlaloc is also the patron of the physically deformed, the Jove intentionally, under mandate, deformed their entire race through genetic manipulation.

Alot of what I have explored can be summed up by the quote, "good intentions pave the way to hell".Twisted Evil

Myyona
Minmatar
Ataraxia Pharmacies
Posted - 2011.08.29 08:48:00 - [15]
 

Careful you not mix up finding the real world inspirational sources for the EVE fiction with actual events that have transpired within the EVE universe.

These civilizations and religions presented her are already ancient and mostly dead and gone in present time in the real world; what makes it logical that they or their philosophies would suddenly resurface in space faring civilizations in some far away space thousand years in the future, when most people living in the time between are completely unfamiliar with these philosophies? Unless we are down of the science-fiction path where “humans” originally came from space to colonize Earth, of course. Then it is the simple matter of finding Atlantis.

The worst part is that it is impossible to draw any In Character information out this.

Also, the phrase “eerily, there seems to be very little difference between the two” is annoying as it is not explained why there is not obvious difference between the two, or how that conclusion is made at all and by who.

Roga Dracor
Caldari
Mental Disorders Inc.
Posted - 2011.08.29 10:29:00 - [16]
 

I agree, it's frustrating to not have all this info ingame. I disagree that it makes these points invalid, though..

Borascus
Posted - 2011.08.29 12:50:00 - [17]
 

Reference to Wild West Terminology in the Blueprints of the Talocan devices found in Okkelen would hint at Latin American influences.

Although that link there:

As described by Knab, shamanic entry into Tlalocan, always achieved during dreams and often with the objective of curing a patient, is via underground waterways, commonly a whirlpool ("the water was whirling there and it too took me in and down into the darkness around and around

Makes for a small influx of linguistic differentiation. In the Okkelen COSMOS the notable items have the "Wild West" feel, but there is a possible distinction between the two.

Bearing in mind that Talocan in New Eden are no more, The items that bear the Caldari Encryptions skill requirement from the string of missions there are normally prefixied with terms like Gallows, Outlaw and Lone Ranger.

On the flipside the items requiring the Talocan Technology skill are named with prefixes like Wolf, Gattote and Snake Eyes.

Funniest comparison that I could find though was in fact in Shield modules: Large Outlaw Shield Booster - Caldari Encryption Methods, and Large Sheriff Shield Extender - Talocan Technology


Roga Dracor
Caldari
Mental Disorders Inc.
Posted - 2011.08.30 16:23:00 - [18]
 

Edited by: Roga Dracor on 30/08/2011 18:32:14

Yes, the nomenclature implies frontier era Southwest U.S.. I think it is a hint at the culture of the time, which is likely equated as "lawless and dangerous". Considering the Talocan and Yan Jung and Caldari and Gallente seem to mirror each other, it makes one wonder..

Given that the Eve Gate closed, cutting off colonists resources from the homeworlds, there was ,likely, a very tumultuous period during which colonies died out, colonies relocated and warred for resources and habitable systems.

Which gives a subjective credence to ideas of the Jove being the Talocan, if the hints bear out as fact. The Talocan dislike the Yan Jung and the Jove dislike the Gallente. For philisophical, moral grounds? So then, do the Caldari hail from the same genetic stock as the Jove? Is this the reason the Jove have seemed to favor the Caldari through history?

More hints and OOC stuff suggest the Yan Jung and Talocan were both Jovian factions, Modifiers and Statics, and they were at odds with each other. The Gallente could then be Jovian Modifer stock, and the reason the predominantly Static current Jovian Empire dislikes them.

The Yang Jung appear to be an outlawed or rebel contingent and the Talocan were the keepers of the order. By pure nomenclature, anyway. If their socities coexisted, it is quite likely they were in competition with each other. And further hints the Jove somehow tie to the "Unified Catholic Church", a prominent name drop that never got explained..

The Society of Conscious Thought seems to be a Static backed organization, bent on teaching duty, order and a "good sheep mentality" to the masses. The Servant Sisters of Eve are a more liberal, Modifier styled organization, not passing judgement, but, being there to help pick up the pieces when humanitarian assistance is needed. Both are reported as being "religious" organizations with significant anonymous backing. The Jove are arguably the richest nation in Eve.

While seemingly at odds, the Static and Modifier ideologies both hold life sacred and violence as a last resort. A very "religious" attitude.

And now a dual pronged break in attempt at Caldari and Gallente bio-tech labs by "ordinary citizens". Shortly after I publicly announce a possible trinary data relationship between the Caldari and Gallente via Arek'Jaalan? As well as a Moira report released under the auspices of Arek'Jaalan on Trinary Data and initial findings that suggest a similarity to Jovian and Sleeper data signals. Sounds as if Sansha loyalists relayed information to Nation of knowledge they may not have possessed, or they do possess and don't want us to. With his "new tech", Sansha could easily stage such a minor revolt as a cover for more covert operatives.

Roga Dracor
Caldari
Mental Disorders Inc.
Posted - 2011.08.30 18:06:00 - [19]
 

Edited by: Roga Dracor on 30/08/2011 18:30:08

Just got to reading the Incursion report from where else? New Caldari, where one of the bio lab break in attempts took place. Does anyone know if an Incursion or spacial rift appeared in Botane at this time, as well?

Roga Dracor
Caldari
Mental Disorders Inc.
Posted - 2011.08.31 03:39:00 - [20]
 

For those interested in the likeliest inspiration for the Jove? And another reason I believe the Yan Jung to be Jovians? I'm an old Trekkie..Wink

Ala SS Botany Bay.

Auwnie Morohe
Posted - 2011.09.01 00:34:00 - [21]
 

Interesting thread is interesting.Very Happy

Roga, you did look at the previous and next episodes of "Space Seed", did you,? Especially the next yells Jove and the previous well, I'll be damned.Cool

The COSMOS blueprints items, the COSMOS constellation missions theme and the ancient races could only have a minor connection. What I mean is the COSMOS items dont say anything about the ancient races they just illustrate the general theme of the storyline missions which mostly stand on their own. Except the Ani constellation whose theme is a little less obvious apart from the analog-digital Sleeper thingy. I do think there are features of the COSMOS constellation that do point towards the Anoikis story but not the main themes, as far as i can see anyway.

And as far as the Talocan and the Yan Jung being Jove, I dont think so. The Sleepers that could be an other story though.

Jowen Datloran
Caldari
Science and Trade Institute
Posted - 2011.09.01 06:30:00 - [22]
 

Edited by: Jowen Datloran on 01/09/2011 07:20:31
Originally by: Auwnie Morohe
Interesting thread is interesting.Very Happy

Roga, you did look at the previous and next episodes of "Space Seed", did you,? Especially the next yells Jove and the previous well, I'll be damned.Cool

The COSMOS blueprints items, the COSMOS constellation missions theme and the ancient races could only have a minor connection. What I mean is the COSMOS items dont say anything about the ancient races they just illustrate the general theme of the storyline missions which mostly stand on their own. Except the Ani constellation whose theme is a little less obvious apart from the analog-digital Sleeper thingy. I do think there are features of the COSMOS constellation that do point towards the Anoikis story but not the main themes, as far as i can see anyway.

And as far as the Talocan and the Yan Jung being Jove, I dont think so. The Sleepers that could be an other story though.


Wow, Auwnie, we agree.

I believe the naming of the hybrid modules have little to no relation at all with the ancient races as these modules are designed by NPC corporations/characters that have been trying to enhance standard type modules (tech 1) by fusing in a small number of ancient components. Like enhancing a hair dryer from the fifties with the components from a modern day television.

I plan to write a post about that but I am waiting for the new forums.Razz

Wyke Mossari
Gallente
Posted - 2011.09.02 10:47:00 - [23]
 

Edited by: Wyke Mossari on 03/09/2011 09:01:21

Originally by: Roga Dracor
... hints the Jove somehow tie to the "Unified Catholic Church", a prominent name drop that never got explained..

The Society of Conscious Thought seems to be a Static backed organization, bent on teaching duty, order and a "good sheep mentality" to the masses. The Servant Sisters of Eve are a more liberal, Modifier styled organization, not passing judgement, but, being there to help pick up the pieces when humanitarian assistance is needed. Both are reported as being "religious" organizations with significant anonymous backing. The Jove are arguably the richest nation in Eve.



I've long suspected there was a inspirational link with the Jesuits but found the in-game evidence a weak.

Quite a lot of the Age of enlightenment philosophers were taught/trained by Jesuits which while seemingly paradoxical give their modern reputation for sternness, "inadvertently helped set the stage for the Scientific Revolution". The Jesuits were in their day very progressive in many ways regarding what we now call human rights. They were anti-slavery, pro-mass eduction and charitable while being fervent believers. They participated in the counter reformation and do bear some similarity with the SoCT in methods and approach.

Wyke Mossari
Gallente
Posted - 2011.09.02 10:50:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Roga Dracor

And now a dual pronged break in attempt at Caldari and Gallente bio-tech labs by "ordinary citizens".


I think that is player RP/fiction it doesn't have GM coloured bars.

Wyke Mossari
Gallente
Posted - 2011.09.02 12:02:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Wyke Mossari

Quite a lot of the Age of enlightenment philosophers were taught/trained by Jesuits.


Some examples you might find interesting.



Publius Valerius
Amarr
Posted - 2011.09.03 00:02:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Wyke Mossari
Originally by: Wyke Mossari

Quite a lot of the Age of enlightenment philosophers were taught/trained by Jesuits.


Some examples you might find interesting.





As a german .. I must intervene Heidegger and philosopher... NO... I see him more in a group with Hartmut Esser so he is more about the "basics" of being or asking..... ehm how can I say itCrying or Very sad.. or even a step before Esser and Popper... so that he ask the basics about them (without calling them)...like Popper about the Positivism...


________
maybe a intressting read is the Fundamentalontologie

Roga Dracor
Caldari
Mental Disorders Inc.
Posted - 2011.09.03 22:41:00 - [27]
 

Edited by: Roga Dracor on 04/09/2011 00:06:13

Very interesting reading list, folks. The Yang Jung very much resemble the Jove, they have several "inductive reasons" to possibly be Jovian. The Jove possess the ability to always know what everyone else is doing. They are the premiere "secret agents" in the world of Eve. The Yang Jung possessed binary transpositional code. A code that arguably allows them to assimilate most data from other "entities" in New Eden. Now, employing inductive logic, the chances are good I could be right. Or, the Jove "assimilated" this technology to use themsleves, in the fashion I described..

The Yan Jung employed Semiotic Theory. Arguably, such a concentration of effort could be likened to "psychohistory". I think that Yang Jung Crystal Cylinders could hold a key to further unlocking their culture, quite possibly a Rosetta Stone for New Eden. The Jovian Elders arguably embarked on a path of social engineering through genetics, to move humananity closer to the Omega Point. And once again, in my mind, moves them towards a religious connotation. And suggests an affinity of ideology between the Jove and Yan Jung..

The Yan Jung seem to have experienced a similar fate to the "augments" in the Star Trek episode Space Seed. The first two entries in the Ancient Races study department under Yang Jung Relics, are spaceships converted to living space on a moon, the planets they lived on experienced some cataclysm that made them uninhabitable. They show evidence of being biologists, from the same entries. They also show use of minerals not generally considered useful in todays technology. An implication of technology we are not privvy to.

Finally, for years we have all been asking for a deeper understanding of the Jove.

Jowen and Auwnie, if the nomenclature holds no bearing on the culture of the creators, then why is it so consistent? Why the concentrated effort to build a group of like names? I'm not saying it has to be a transposable cultural theory, only that the general "feel" is the same. The Yang Jung are associated with the beatnik culture of the 50's. But, what can we infer from this "association"? The Yan Jung were "rebellious". But if we look closer at the person who espoused it, he meant something on the connotation of a higher state of consciousness about the "meaning of life". And he was Catholic.

The hybrid tech is based on the ancient items used in their construction. If, as you say it is more like upgrading the items, why is it not more like building a T2 item? That is based on a T1 item augmented by specialized racial equipment. Not pure minerals and specialized racial equipment. A Manticore requires an assembled Kestrel to construct. Why then don't, if as you say, they are merely "upgraded versions of T1", why are not the base items part of the construction? Instead we see a different approach to the "type" of items. This holds true across the board for faction and ancient modules.

On a different note, look at the "map" in the ancient races department of the Takmahl artifact site, it bears a strong resemblance to this.

Roga Dracor
Caldari
Mental Disorders Inc.
Posted - 2011.09.04 05:04:00 - [28]
 

Edited by: Roga Dracor on 04/09/2011 05:11:18

Back to the Yan Jung, because I know I will be taken to task over the biologist assertation. And it helps to solidify the Yan Jung as Asian. Look at the Yan Jung relics, some of them are obtained through manipulation of biological materials. Vellum is a very fine grade parchment made from animal skins(Yan Jung Vellum Etch). Silk is created by a caterpillar. The best silk from a "worm" domesticated by the Chinese (Yan Jung Silk Armor).

The Yan Jung survived the closing of the Eve Gate. They also seem to have maintained a large stock of captive livestock, or the DNA thereof. Or they had a very astute knowledge of synthetic manufacturing. The crates of goods discovered in Algintal show evidence of biological samples from a hydroponics lab. This is alot of evidence for advanced biological technical endeavor. A trait shared with the Jove, whose ships have been described as almost biological in appearance.

Auwnie Morohe
Posted - 2011.09.04 12:46:00 - [29]
 

Quote:
Or, the Jove "assimilated" this technology to use themsleves, in the fashion I described..

This makes much more sense to me.

Quote:
Silk is created by a caterpillar. The best silk from a "worm" domesticated by the Chinese (Yan Jung Silk Armor).

Interesting. Butterflies. Where have I seen them before? Ah, yes Sansha. I think the theme of killing something small and beautiful to obtain something big and powerful is what happened to the Yan Jung and it might have been the Jove doing the killing this time.

I am leaning towards cloaking tech but I have very little evidence for it apart from the fact that it was another gift from the Jove to the empires and that the T2 requires Graviton physics.

==Archeology Blueprints
'Aura' Warp Core Stabilizer I Blueprint
'Beatnik' Small Remote Armor Repair System I Blueprint
'Brotherhood' Small Remote Armor Repair System I Blueprint
'Bootleg' ECCM Projector I Blueprint
'Cartel' Power Diagnostic System I Blueprint
'Forger' ECCM - Magnetometric I Blueprint
'Gonzo' Damage Control I Blueprint
'Habitat' Miner I Blueprint
'Harmony' Small Armor Repairer I Blueprint
'Love' Medium Remote Armor Repair System I Blueprint
'Mafia' Energized Magnetic Membrane I Blueprint
'Meditation' Medium Armor Repairer I Blueprint
'Moonshine' Energized Thermic Membrane I Blueprint
'Natura' Warp Core Stabilizer I Blueprint
'Pacifier' Large Remote Armor Repair System I Blueprint
'Peace' Large Remote Armor Repair System I Blueprint
'Pilfer' Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane I Blueprint
'Protest' Large Armor Repairer I Blueprint
'Radical' Damage Control I Blueprint
'Shady' ECCM - Gravimetric I Blueprint
'Wild' Miner I Blueprint

I was about to write that the overall theme of Algintal missions is corporate Caldari greed vs Greenpeace 2.0. But when I looked again at the above blueprints I noticed that there is a little bit more going on.

Also as with the Takmahl and the Talocan the archeology blueprints tend to be defensive in nature.

Yes I know it is the Talocan blueprints that have the cloaking devices. In a way this could actually be prove of the blueprints and the ancients not being directly connected.

Quote:
last man standing after an all-night drinking marathon

Very Happy in so many ways. Cool

Roga Dracor
Caldari
Mental Disorders Inc.
Posted - 2011.09.04 18:08:00 - [30]
 

Edited by: Roga Dracor on 04/09/2011 18:27:23

The Yang Jung hint at so much more than simply cloaking tech. The Yan Jung were masters of spatial field theory. Shields, cloaks, wormholes, even the armor repair units rely on spatial fields to improve repair rates. So much of what we see in New Eden today seems directly related to the field theory of the Yan Jung. As well, the Rogue Drones seem to be intimately connected to the Yan Jung.

And for the Empirisists out there, some reading material.. Razz

Knowledge does not have to be provable by empirical testing to illuminate the darkness that lies outside the sphere of finite human knowledge.

Oh, and n-spheres, horror vacui. Anyone ever notice how wormholes seem to be breathing?


Pages: [1] 2

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only