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blankseplocked I should be allowed to carebear in peace.
 
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Mokokan
Posted - 2011.08.21 12:31:00 - [91]
 

Originally by: Sofia Bellard
So it is the consensus of the players and even CCP that mission runners should always be the outcast and always at a disadvantage?

Why do you even have mission running if you hate them so damn much?! Mad


You're not paying attention. You're the only one saying that mission runners are outcasts and at a disadvantage. This game is a very complicated, expanded version of rock, paper scissors. Sometimes scissors can beat rock, but it isn't easy and nothing gets handed to you. And it still might be true that this isn't the game for you. Especially if you give up this easily.

Velicitia
Gallente
Open Designs
Posted - 2011.08.21 12:33:00 - [92]
 

Edited by: Velicitia on 21/08/2011 12:33:53
Originally by: Sofia Bellard
So it is the consensus of the players and even CCP that miners should always be the outcast and always at a disadvantage?

Why do you even have mining if you hate miners so damn much?! Mad


FYP

Also, I happen to be a carebear miner/indy pilot...

sg1jack
Caldari
The Omega Particle
Posted - 2011.08.21 12:59:00 - [93]
 

Originally by: GateScout
Originally by: Sofia Bellard
Just like the title says; I should be able to focus on the task at hand instead of watching over my shoulder to see if there is some pathetic trying to sneak up on me.



Fixed your post, Op. Carry on.

Just like the title says; I should be able to kill whoever I want at any time instead of worrying if some pathetic carebear is trying to avoid me.

Killing mission runners in low sec and null demands full attention or you will find yourself in hull. Why should I have to enlist a second person to probe the system because someone wants to protect their carebear alt from me?

I didn't do anything to you so why do you want to avoid a fight?

Very Happy



I think this might be part of the problem, this kind of thinking that someone who wants pvp and someone that wants to carebear should be forced together or apart because one of the 2 wants it. I have seen an overriding trend in just about ever mmo out there to force combat between players but the sucsessful ones offer something for both. Eve offers something for both but greys the lines between the two. I think this is a good thing but I think it would destroy Eve is pvp focused players could kill who the like where they like.

Eve has a great sepperation for carebears and pvpers but allows interaction between the 2. CCP what ever you do I hthink that keeping the pvp / carebear parts of Eve as they are that way both types of player get something they want as opposed to no combat or full combat

Komen
Gallente
Capital Enrichment Services
Posted - 2011.08.21 16:46:00 - [94]
 

Originally by: Sofia Bellard
Edited by: Sofia Bellard on 21/08/2011 02:24:12
Originally by: Tippia
Get some friends.


Tried that. They killed me. Got any other genius ideas?


Try not being a whiny carebear and understanding what the game is about before you go off spewing your ideas of what you think it ought to be? It's only been a PvP-centric affair for, oh, 8 years, and most of the media coverage is about the scams, the piracy, and the grand battles (and lag, and protests, etc.). And a dev has come along and said as much; if you don't like what's on offer here, don't play. Or go grab you some Star Trek Online. Or that Star Wars Old Republic thing. Really, you seem to be failing to grasp that you have consented to PvP by creating an account within the game.

Again, if you don't want that, go make your own spaceship game with a deep economy. Because in this one, the economy is in service of the PvP (or at least, that's the ideal, I realize it is not always the case, before you get out your flamethrower, you there who's already hammering at your keyboard).

To the person who mentioned Elite 4 - yeah, I know of it, and it's as vaporware as any other legacy project at this point: I'll believe it when I see it and even then, I'll treat it with wary interest. Also, you should know that Ultima Online was as much an inspiration for Eve as Elite.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.08.21 17:01:00 - [95]
 

Originally by: Sofia Bellard
So it is the consensus of the players and even CCP that mission runners should always be the outcast and always at a disadvantage?

Why do you even have mission running if you hate them so damn much?! Mad
No, the consensus is that mission runners have to play within the game world, just like everyone else. Again: this is a multiplayer sandbox, which doesn't mean that you are free to do what you want — it means that everyone is free to do what they want, which includes blowing you up for no apparent reason, whether you want them to or not. If you choose to play like an outcast, then yes, that choice puts you at a disadvantage, since there is significant safety to be found in numbers and in having some kind of “home ground”. None of that is inherent in running missions, though, just in how you choose to run them.

Choose to do it differently, and your problems go away.
Originally by: Brooks Puuntai
Originally by: Tippia
For the same reason you can't raise chickens and grow crops in CS_Italy: because it's not that kind of game.
There actually are chickens in CS_Italy though. So it could be possible, so long as someone didn't knife them.
That's why I use it as an example: while there was a chicken in CS_Italy, it still wasn't farmville. The purpose of the game was to shoot each other in the fact, and there was absolutely nothing you could do to raise that chicken — the game simply did not support that kind of gameplay (nor was there any need for it to do so, since other games filled that purpose just fine).

Omniwing
Posted - 2011.08.21 17:16:00 - [96]
 

Originally by: nubile slave
4/10 for so many people biting on the Troll....



Jacob Stiller
Posted - 2011.08.21 20:08:00 - [97]
 

Originally by: Barbelo Valentinian
Edited by: Barbelo Valentinian on 21/08/2011 12:16:47
Right from its inception EVE has had this thing where it's a pretty darn good s-f simulator - it's got great lore, a beautifully designed universe, spaceships and matériel, great naming of things, and everything is nice and deep and takes ages to "finish".

And while the PvE is sort of meh in terms of engaging gameplay, it's an entertaining enough minigame to try and make one's PvE isk earning as efficient as possible.

IOW, despite some flaws, it's by far the best s-f space sim in town. So it attracts people who would like to just play a nice PvE multiplayer s-f simulator.

But unfortunately for them, it has this PvP carbuncle, in that it's designed as a PvP game from the ground up, with the PvE being an adjunct to that.

So, a fellow who just wants a nice space sim to relax with after work has two choices: either they can work around the PvP, find some way to tolerate it and still carve their own little bit of quiet s-f sim for themselves, or GTFO.



And here we have the reason why people who have zero interest in PvP try to pick up EvE. EvE is the only good space MMORPG out there. All of the good PVE games are of the swords and sorcery genre.

Shieko Chan
Posted - 2011.08.21 21:35:00 - [98]
 

Originally by: Sofia Bellard
Just like the title says; I should be able to focus on the task at hand instead of watching over my shoulder to see if there is some pathetic trying to sneak up on me.

Doing missions in low sec and null demand full attention or you will find yourself in hull from the mission rats. Why should I have to enlist a second person to watch local and spam the directional scanner because someone wants to push their PvP on me?

I didn't do anything to you so why do you want to start a fight?


Looking over your shoulder is part of being a "carebear". Heck, station gaming wardeccers are just as much carebears as any high sec indy corp in my way of thinking. It's part of the game.. get used to it..because it's not going to change.


Kirana Si
Nekkid Inc.
Posted - 2011.08.21 21:59:00 - [99]
 

Edited by: Kirana Si on 21/08/2011 22:00:41
What I don`t get every time threads like this come up:

Were did you that want EVE-Online as a single player space simulation, saw any kind of CCP EVE advertisement that promotes this kind of gameplay ? You dont! So please stop trying now to change it the way it suits your piecelovin carebearism.

tnx bye


Barbelo Valentinian
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2011.08.22 03:12:00 - [100]
 

Originally by: Jacob Stiller

And here we have the reason why people who have zero interest in PvP try to pick up EvE. EvE is the only good space MMORPG out there. All of the good PVE games are of the swords and sorcery genre.


Yah, and CCP are obviously aware of that, and try to accommodate it to some degree (e.g. exploration and missioning are obviously concessions to solo PvE-ers, to some extent).

But one can't expect CCP to totally re-jig the heart and soul of the game to have areas where you can't be affected by other players' actions. It's never going to happen.

Even in my own personal worst case scenario for EVE's future - sandbox becomes legacy, game becomes mainly a P2W PvP arena - it's still going to be essentially a PvP game with PvE adjuncts.

Thornat
Posted - 2011.08.22 06:46:00 - [101]
 

You know some people just don't get Eve, I've come to the realization that their is not much that can be said to these people to get them to understand. I personally don't think its so complicated, but.... just for the record.

You can be a carebear, avoid PvP and live in low sec and Null sec. Its all about running smart ops, knowing and understanding how players think and what tactics they use. I run a corp with my alt filled with under 1 million ISK skill point characters, we have been in 1 PvP fight which we won in low since we started 10 days ago and we are making ISK hand over foot (about 40-100 million a night) running a variety of ops.

Its not hard. Play it smart, use wormholes, read and understand the map data. Use scouts, use local, use directional scanners. I understand that I have an advantage over newbies running a newbie alt because I understand the game mechanics which my corp of newbs benefits from but that illustrates a key point that knowledge of the game is far more powerful and useful than skill points. You also need to grow a pair.

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2011.08.22 07:50:00 - [102]
 

Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Nope, sorry.


♥♥♥

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2011.08.22 08:01:00 - [103]
 

Originally by: Barbelo Valentinian

Plus also, we eventually come to understand that even though it's annoying sometimes, the PvP basis of the game actually makes it feel much more alive than a merely PvE game could ever do. The fact that you're constantly at risk in this game gives it a spice and flavour you couldn't get if you had guaranteed safety to just float about in your own little la la land.

I suggest the OP think of it that way - and eventually they will "get" it. And also, they'll get the bear's quiet satisfaction of avoiding being ganked. Gankbear tears of frustration are tears of the same colour and consistency as any other, and using the tools CCP have given you to avoid trouble is, in itself ... PvP.


I must say that I'm extremely gratified to see you post this after the debate we had about suicide ganking a couple of years ago.

Alissa Solette
Posted - 2011.08.22 08:40:00 - [104]
 

@OP: if you're not capable of watching local and shooting a few rats at the same time then you have no future in this game whatsoever.

Also, what the hell makes you think that you should be safe in lowsec?

I'd go back to WOW before you waste anymore money and time on a game that you are obviously terrible at.

Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

Sofia Bellard
Posted - 2011.08.22 09:04:00 - [105]
 

You know what? Fine. Everyone just jump on the "Make Fun of Missioners!" bandwagon already!

Just to shove it directly in your face I am going to mission even more. Going to make local go from top to bottom of my screen, fit a cloak and always be aligned to a safe spot. Happy?

I'm going to make a **** ton of ISK and there is not jack **** your going to do about it. NOTHING! How do you like them apples SUPER LEET PEE VEE PEERERS!!!! So while you all fight over scraps over some poor hauler who took a wrong turn, I will be sitting back and enjoying my ISK flow.

Go on, fight for those table scraps, DO IT. ugh

Monstress
Posted - 2011.08.22 09:35:00 - [106]
 

Originally by: Tippia
while there was a chicken in CS_Italy, it still wasn't farmville. The purpose of the game was to shoot each other


You mean I wasn't supposed to shoot the chicken!? Sad

Alissa Solette
Posted - 2011.08.22 09:47:00 - [107]
 

Originally by: Sofia Bellard
You know what? Fine. Everyone just jump on the "Make Fun of Missioners!" bandwagon already!

Just to shove it directly in your face I am going to mission even more. Going to make local go from top to bottom of my screen, fit a cloak and always be aligned to a safe spot. Happy?

I'm going to make a **** ton of ISK and there is not jack **** your going to do about it. NOTHING! How do you like them apples SUPER LEET PEE VEE PEERERS!!!! So while you all fight over scraps over some poor hauler who took a wrong turn, I will be sitting back and enjoying my ISK flow.

Go on, fight for those table scraps, DO IT. ugh


Now you're starting to sound more like an EVE player. Well besides all the chest beating over the mediocre income of dismally boring missions you plan to run.

Now just hope I won't come and park my neutral cloaky cyno alt in your ratting system or you'll be sitting cloaked at a safe spot while I earn ISK with my main from all those "worthless scraps" the hauler wrecks leave behind.

Internet Knight
The Kobayashi Maru
Posted - 2011.08.22 10:15:00 - [108]
 

Originally by: Sofia Bellard
Now I don't mind other people from having fun,but when their fun interferes with my fun, then there is an issue.
Welcome to EVE, good sir.

Ciar Meara
Amarr
Virtus Vindice
Posted - 2011.08.22 10:58:00 - [109]
 

Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Nope, sorry.


Agreeing with Soundwave. OP is being sneaked up on as we speak.

Barbelo Valentinian
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2011.08.22 11:17:00 - [110]
 

Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Barbelo Valentinian

Plus also, we eventually come to understand that even though it's annoying sometimes, the PvP basis of the game actually makes it feel much more alive than a merely PvE game could ever do. The fact that you're constantly at risk in this game gives it a spice and flavour you couldn't get if you had guaranteed safety to just float about in your own little la la land.

I suggest the OP think of it that way - and eventually they will "get" it. And also, they'll get the bear's quiet satisfaction of avoiding being ganked. Gankbear tears of frustration are tears of the same colour and consistency as any other, and using the tools CCP have given you to avoid trouble is, in itself ... PvP.


I must say that I'm extremely gratified to see you post this after the debate we had about suicide ganking a couple of years ago.


Christ, you must have the memory of an elephant! Laughing

I still think suicide ganking is silly and unrealistic from the point of view of the virtual world mechanic allowing it, but I do recognise that there has to be a balance struck between simulator and fun gameplay.

At the end of the day, a game like EVE cannot ever be fully a sim, simply because of the anonymity involved. In the real world, unless we make an effort to get "off the grid", and swallow the inconvenience thereof, our identity is constant and trackable and we (usually) have to answer to the consequences of our actions; in a game there is no responsibility of that kind, anonymity is the default. That sets a limit to how "realistic" NPC policing actions (for example) can be.

Asymoney
Posted - 2011.08.22 11:21:00 - [111]
 

PVP - main engine of EVE economy

White Tree
Gallente
Broski Federation
Tactical Narcotics Team
Posted - 2011.08.22 11:45:00 - [112]
 

I RAT IN A CARRIER YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH

Because Of Door
Posted - 2011.08.22 11:53:00 - [113]
 

Originally by: Wu Tarot
Hey Door, you hidin from the same ppl I am?


Don't look now. They're behind you mate.

Abaroth Charmar
Posted - 2011.08.22 11:57:00 - [114]
 

I'm upgrading this to 5/10 because he got CCP blue bars and 4 pages.

Komen
Gallente
Capital Enrichment Services
Posted - 2011.08.22 16:45:00 - [115]
 

Originally by: Sofia Bellard
You know what? Fine. Everyone just jump on the "Make Fun of Missioners!" bandwagon already!

Just to shove it directly in your face I am going to mission even more. Going to make local go from top to bottom of my screen, fit a cloak and always be aligned to a safe spot. Happy?

I'm going to make a **** ton of ISK and there is not jack **** your going to do about it. NOTHING! How do you like them apples SUPER LEET PEE VEE PEERERS!!!! So while you all fight over scraps over some poor hauler who took a wrong turn, I will be sitting back and enjoying my ISK flow.

Go on, fight for those table scraps, DO IT. ugh


There, see? You've just realized that Eve is meant to be a challenge, and that if all you do is solo mission rats, you're paying $15/month, or whatever, for a subpar grind-game. Doing that while dodging the 1337ness, on the other hand, is more in the spirit of the game.

Good luck and have fun! (or else, why are you even playing the game?)

LoneCrow Crendraven
Posted - 2011.08.22 17:04:00 - [116]
 

I have to agree with the OP. I've played many many pvp games out there and I think pvp is extremely fun. But being new to this game, I have given this my third and final try. The first two tries I got extremely frustrated within a month at the fact some dork who played for a few years before me could just sit at a gate and kill me for doing nothing. This game FORCES you into a play style of grouping with people, and corporations and playing a certain way.

Some of us just want to be privateers and explore and risk the high sec but not for the element of PVP.

There is no moral compass in this game. It is a game and there is no moral penalty for killing people really that is anything significant. Possibly a digit in a computer.

That is not realistic and the penalty is not harsh enough to deter people from arbitrarily murdering people for no reason. Especially when it is probably some teen aged kid with no job living in his parents basement playing two accounts and has trained 24/7 for 3 years. How can any new players really come into this game and just play and have fun?

I mean there is no way to privateer in lowsec or in the more profitable parts of space at all. So staying limited to highsec .. whats the use?

Some of us don't want to join mega corporations or want to be forced into making friends and allies. Some of us want to go about our own business and not have to worry about being MURDERED by some 12 year old for kicks when all I carry is like some small mods. Where is the reality in that?

Ganking is for the low moral compass people. There are plenty of them here. There has to be some defense against it... We should be able to choose to pvp or not, and have a timer for like a month or something.

Barbelo Valentinian
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2011.08.22 17:16:00 - [117]
 

Originally by: LoneCrow Crendraven

I mean there is no way to privateer in lowsec or in the more profitable parts of space at all. So staying limited to highsec .. whats the use?


Man, I've been a solo player for most of my (albeit intermittent) EVE career, and a lot of that time recently I've spent playing cat and mouse with pirates and such, trying to mission in low sec. It's a lot of fun - try it!

It really is possible to be a "privateer" type of character, it's totally up to you. You can rat, you can explore (which is designed with the solo player in mind), you can do missions - and you can do all these things in high sec, low sec or null sec.

You just have to be much, much more careful and get to know the ways of avoiding trouble. You can never be foolproofly safe, but you can cut down your chances of being "pointlessly" killed by quite a lot, even in low sec. It just requires more concentration, is all - and sometimes that's fun. OTOH, sure, sometimes you just want to relax more in Empire (hooray for jump clones!).

Think, plan ahead, use intel, etc., etc.

That's partly what the game is all about - getting to know the game by talking to people and asking questions (e.g. in your NPC corp, if you're a soloer). It's a social game, so be social, learn all the tips and tricks from people. Pirates, or ex-pirates and the like, are sometimes quite happy to give tips and tricks to carebears on how to avoid trouble - it spices the game up for them, too, to know the people they're hunting are acting intelligently, and not just like stupid, inert bricks. Then it's a tense game where one slip-up on either "side" can result in tears either way.

LoneCrow Crendraven
Posted - 2011.08.22 17:21:00 - [118]
 

I'm not saying I never want to PVP - in fact it adds a bunch of excitement to the game. I understand planning trips but its just the behavior of people sometimes is totally irrational.

There are times you just dont feel up to the cheap dirty tricks of people and don't feel like pvp and are not looking for a fight. We should have a choice, and there should be more drastic repercussions for attacking someone who isn't affiliated with an enemy corp.. for attacking neutral type cargo runners etc.

If I'm the dork and I fire first of course they have every right to jump me. But if I go about my business and I'm not at war with them in any way they should pay a major major penalty for killing an innocent.

Bklyn 1
Posted - 2011.08.22 17:26:00 - [119]
 

Originally by: LoneCrow Crendraven
I have to agree with the OP. I've played many many pvp games out there and I think pvp is extremely fun. But being new to this game, I have given this my third and final try. The first two tries I got extremely frustrated within a month at the fact some dork who played for a few years before me could just sit at a gate and kill me for doing nothing. This game FORCES you into a play style of grouping with people, and corporations and playing a certain way.

Some of us just want to be privateers and explore and risk the high sec but not for the element of PVP.

There is no moral compass in this game. It is a game and there is no moral penalty for killing people really that is anything significant. Possibly a digit in a computer.

That is not realistic and the penalty is not harsh enough to deter people from arbitrarily murdering people for no reason. Especially when it is probably some teen aged kid with no job living in his parents basement playing two accounts and has trained 24/7 for 3 years. How can any new players really come into this game and just play and have fun?

I mean there is no way to privateer in lowsec or in the more profitable parts of space at all. So staying limited to highsec .. whats the use?

Some of us don't want to join mega corporations or want to be forced into making friends and allies. Some of us want to go about our own business and not have to worry about being MURDERED by some 12 year old for kicks when all I carry is like some small mods. Where is the reality in that?

Ganking is for the low moral compass people. There are plenty of them here. There has to be some defense against it... We should be able to choose to pvp or not, and have a timer for like a month or something.


As has been said, you can be quite safe in this game, even solo and even as a new player. I've lived solo in both lowsec and 0.0. Heck, I spent about 6 months primarily solo missioning in lowsec without ever losing a single ship. I've ninja mined for the fun of it. These things honestly are better if you are in a good corp (it doesn't have to be a big one), but can be done solo.

But it takes forethought. Planning. Strategy. This is why I've always felt WoW players and FPS pvp'ers generally cannot make the transition to Eve. They are just inculcated into a different 'culture' if you will, and can only see games through that prism, missing the point of Eve.

Some unsolicited advice. You are not your ship. Expect to get blown up. It happens.

Kolmogorow
Freedom Resources
Posted - 2011.08.22 17:35:00 - [120]
 

THIS GAME IS MADE TO SELL AND BUY MONOCLES. WHY DON'T YOU SIT ALL THE DAY IN A LOW SEC STATION AND WORK IN PEACE ON YOUR MONOCLE COLLECTION?


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